They don't suck, but if the rated WZ group goes with sniper/GS then they lost the slot for the shadow/assasin. What you believe isn't what drives the decision to let you in the group. It is what the rest of the group believes. And right now that is 'why use a pure dps when a hybrid dps will die less and be in the fight more?'

Everybody who already had BM gear had a head start on the war hero gear. Did you acltually work out how many comms it will take someone to buy WH gear? It is a $#!+Load.

And you can use all that skill and finesse in a pug because any rated WZ team worth a crap isn't going to use pure DPS when hybrid classes like a shadow are a better plan.

I always give my vote to the poor bastard with the worst gear.

Me too.... after these changes I saw nothing but players trying to win the entire match. Based on the play I think the patch was a huge win.

good plan.

A shadow (or Imp mirror class) will do all the damage without need for the healing.

Why take a pure DPS when a hybrid tank/dps will be better for the group?

No point in anyone playing a pure DPS class in PvP when the hybrids are a ton better. Pure DPS are simply gimmick classes.

The response of the short bus rider. You are a chump, a loser, and nobody likes you.

Can't do ranked WZ's without cross server instances. Can't do cross server until you collapse the servers (unless you are the kind of masochistic programmer that likes to re-do all your work a few times). Can't collapse the servers until EA mgmt decides they will lose more money by not collapsing them, then they will earn by not admiting the game is shrinking in player base.

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetency.

Um ... no he is talking about the base class not the builds. A Shadow is a hybrid. A gunslinger is a pure class. Go look at the class definitions on this web site so you see what he is talking about. It isn't a pure tank with a DPS build, it is a hybrid class vs. pure class issue.

You guys are still mostly missing the OP's point. Why be a pure DPS in PVP when a hybrid class that is DPS/TANK does more damage. The answer is that there is no point. When a hybrid class does better than the pure class, it make no sense to play the pure class. This is NOT a comparison of DPS to a Tank with a DPS build. This is about the base level class being a pure or a hybrid. In most games that use hybrids, and throughout game history, a hybrid class was less effective in each of the class types it was derived from. So a TANK/DPS hybrid should be less DPS than a pure DPS and less 'tank' than a pure tank class. This is NOT the case in SWTOR. The hybrids are a better choice for solo PVP play.

No one is calling out for a nerf. The OP simply stated that there is no reason to play a pure DPS class when a tank/DPS hybrid class ALWAYS will outdamage you. AND YES THAT MEANS DPS ALSO!!!! A WZ is a fixed number of seconds. If you die you don't do DPS. The clouding argument od 'DPS only applies when you are fighting' is irrelevant. That is simply an argument about the definition of the term. HAS ZERO TO DO WITH WHAT THE OP IS SAYING.

This is about tank/dps hybrids. Do you know what that means? Do you know which classes those are?

This is not tank vs DPS. This is about DPS vs TANK/DPS hybrids. AOE has ZERO to do with the discussion. This is about balance between those two class types. Either grasp the argument or don't post.

Hey I checked out the rattler or addler or whatever that Logictech mouse is called and they have a left handed version.... gonna try that out it only costs $60.

My last try to get you to understand the discussion. WHY BE PURE DPS WHEN A TANK/DPS HYBRID ALWAYS DOES MORE DAMAGE IN A WZ. The OP may have slightly mis-phrased it, but that is the point here. All your clouding of the issue does not address the original argument. Has nothing to do with the time frames or getting dead. Why should i roll as a pure DPs when a tank/dps hybrid will always out damage me? Why would a raid EVER take a pure DPS over a tank/hybrid that brings more damage to the encounter? Burst/Schmurst... you can't burst when your dead.

That has nothing to do with the discussion. Read the original statement. WHY BE A PURE DPS WHEN TANK/DPS DOES MORE DAMAGE. He may have mis-phrased it but the point is still obvious. In a balanced scenario the 'burst' DPS should have equal damage to the hybrid spec's damage. If it doesn't, there is no reason to play the pure DPS class. So go explain things to yourself. I know what I am discussing with the OP and I have no need for your opinion.

Just get rid of the MVP crap. It is only used to boost guildies anyway.

If you find a good one let me know. Using right hand mice in my left hand is making harder to masterbate.

Auto-click Bunny Hopper 5000.

This ridiculous sophistry is why you will never teach math or debate. The only metric you can measure in a WZ is total damage for the WZ. that takes into account how often a player spends being dead. A match isn't an arbitrary length, it is a FIXED length. Total damage during the fixed length of time is a reasonable metric to decide balance between classes over many WZ's. The problem, as the OP explains and only about 1/3 of the posters grasp, is that pure DPS classes do not compete with hybrid tank/dps classes. This is an obvious fact when you play a thousand war zones and see it over and over again. To balance this in a warzone, the hybrids need to get nerfed on damage or resistance to damage OR the pure DPs need to bet buffed for damage or resistance to damage. In a balanced game with equivalent players, at the end of the match, total damage done should be roughly equal if the game is balanced. This game is NOT!

Everything is a clone of something. There are nor original games. Except Chess, Tetris, and 3 card monty (or Indian Poker).