Running out of arguments, are we?

OK, I'm confused now. Is that good or bad? Is it not enough like WoW or too much? Or just not the right things? I really don't get it.

Well, but if you read this thread carefully, you will notice that not everyone shares your appraisal of what Blizzard did. And yes, taking from other games is very much WoW. They did it well, I won't deny that. But why not come up with something own for a change? Everyone can copy. Maybe, just MAYBE (I don't know), Bioware is saying: OK, we want to add this and that and that, because other successful MMOs have them. But we don't want to just copy/paste, we want to create our own mechanics for that. That takes time. Please give it to them. A lot is planned, and even if we don't know all the specifics about those plans, I for one am confident, they will please many many players. Fanboy much? In this case: definitely, yes.

I beg to differ. With the replayability by the use of different story lines, I think we'll be seeing quite populated level areas over at least the next 3 months. Whether you twink or not is up to you.

Then why make it even more WoW? Care to answer that?

100% agree.

If I may, I want to use this thread and ask a simple question. I've read multiple times now that we (we being the "please don't compare everything to WoW faction") are titled haters, fanbois, white knighters and worse. Not that those words are offending per se but they are certainly used in the context to offend. Yes, I realize that "we" have some among us who return that favour. I guess that we aren't better on either side when it comes to that. Now, why does it always come down to hate? Why is it so hard (for any faction) to try to see the other point of view? I have tried (and yes, from time to time failed as well, I admit) to argue my opinions in a calm way and make people understand why I think the way I do. Why do we always hate? Yes, this is more a philosophical question, but can't we all come down a bit and reason instead of yell? I guess I won't get an answer to that, and it's not really needed as well. This is basically more an attempt to bring a bit of peace back into this thread. Yes, there are different opinions and live would be boring without them. On the other hand it should be possible to acknowledge that one isn't "truth incarnate".

OK, my last attempt and then I'm outta here. It is (for me anyways) not that I don't want to game to succeed and for that to use well-proven mechanics from other games. But the constant WoW-talking is, as I said earlier tiring. There's more than just WoW out there. Why, if you want things done, make it a wee bit more neutral and and constantly act as if WoW is the lightbringer that has invented it all and therefore WoW is the only refence. I'll say again: WoW is a helluva successful game. They have earned their place and I am not jealous. But it is not our new messiah of MMOs. Neither is TOR btw. We will see what the future brings.

Sorry if my opinions offend you. If I'm white knighting with them, then so be it. And yes, with all the "this isnt wow" and all the "they should have taken that from wow"...yes...that WAS the proper answer to the OP...because this...and please pay attention: IS NOT WOW! You want more wow? Fine, last I checked they haven't shut down their servers, neither are they cowering in fear. And they should not. But then by all means, play the game that suits you. I don't care about WoW. I don't want to play WoW. I don't hate WoW either. But I dont want to read about WoW all the time, when I visit the SW:TOR forums. Is that really that difficult to understand? You could argue, then don't read those posts. Which is a valid point, except I have to weed through WoW posts to find something about SW:TOR. It gets tiring. [edited major typo]

Sorry, you forgot the 3rd kind. Granted they are not easy to spot, but they are there: 3rd type - people who see tor for what it is without the constant need to look over the fence. It's high time the grace period is over. I don't want to censor but I just want to enjoy this in peace. Which is difficult these days. Contructive criticism is good, no doubt. Constant whining and b*tching just because it's not [insert other MMO of choice here] is not.

You DO realize that the game has just launched and early access "just" started last week? Do you really expect all players to be in high levels? Really? If there are only 10-20 people who have rushed a bit (not saying they powerlevelled) and the rest is taking it easy, just wait for the rest to catch up.

Mmmhh.... when I look at these pages here....and the adressbar of my browser, it says http://swtor.com not wow.com I am not angry about wow or hate it. They have done good things and bad things as is normal with a product of this magnitude, I think. But to read again and again and again, and again and again what tor misses from wow, what could and should have done better, what should have been learned from wow... I'm so tired of this. Yes, some points are valid. They are and I think no one here denies that. But still, this is NOT wow, this is SW:TOR and it has just launched to the general public. I bet the devs WILL add more features soon. Why they havent included some things already I do not know. But I think it is a waste of time really to whine about it over and over again.

You cannot be serious. You fail to inform yourself about the game and yet you want want want? Btw the information was on the product purchase page. Maybe not from your local retailer, wehich isnt surprising, since they just want to sell and dont really care about the fine print. But it was here. Yes, of course, I know, if you want reliable information, you don't visit the page of the guys who made the product, but somewhere else. Because the producers are always lying, right? So, again: What exactly should have BW/EA done, to satisfy you? Paint the moon, so you don't have to act yourself and all is laid out for you? Sorry, pal, the world doesn't work this way. A tiny bit of action is required.

Did the video also show the local time? Or date? Maybe the video was made at 2am. Do you know that? I don't but what I DO know is that the servers are PACKED. Do youself a favour and have a look at the server status at peak hours in your region. And then tell us again, that the servers are empty, I dare you. So, without being there, and experiencing it, you have no idea, what you are talking about, and you're as much biased as we are, because you want in, which I can understand. But don't make false claims without knowing all the facts, please.

No, instead they said your access will depend on when you redeem your code. (Which of course can be done earlier if you pre-order early) Small, but significant difference. If you fail to understand that, nobody can help you. And no one wants to either. The info was there, from the momment pre-order was announced and available.

Kingsab, here's food for thought: Yesterday, I was kicked from the server to find myself in a queue for re-login. Granted, it was "only" a 30 minutes queue, so compared to some EU English PVP servers, which had 1:30 hrs and more, I was rather "lucky". When I was happily waiting to get back in, I was kicked from that queue, my client crashed and I had to go through a new queue again. Actually I did't mind much, because this is what happens when a lot of people want to log on. In fact, it gave me time to talk to my wife for a change (there just wasn't enough time for more than just talking ). Now, imagine the following: Every single pre-order up-to-date would be allowed in at the same time. And yes, that would then include you. Know what would happen then? If not, I can tell you. Constant crashes, queue times up to 3 hours or more, frustration all over the place. And now my question to you: Would you be happier waiting in a queue for 3 hours or more or would you rather wait maybe a day or two and instead have a rather smooth experience? You can only answer that question for yourself, and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise or to be quiet. I just want to direct your mind to another point of view.

I have given up, but I just came back to wish Mantis a good night. Go to bed man. Sleep is important. 20 to 1pm here in good old germany and I still have to ..well..work..ermmm

I have no problem with different opinions, far from it. What I do have a problem with, is posting here how bad the game is, how bad BW is, how bad the EGA is, basically how bad everything about this game and the company is and then in the same post saying that the pre-order will not be cancelled. I mean, please? Either you like/dislike something, make it be heard and then act on it or you don't. And if you don't, then I have abad feeling about the real motives of the whole rant. And that, dear OP is my opinion.

Oh there are threads aplenty. DANG, now I just shot myself in the foot, by replying and bumping. Well played, Mantis. /tiphat

Ok, let me try again to put this thread to rest. The last few replies by the OP clearly show, that he's just trolling. This will be my last reply in here. Nice one, OP, you had me, I commend you, now bother someone else. Cheerio

I'm going to sink this thread in the depth of the forums just by replying to it. So far it has proven effective. Most threads I reply to are henceforth ignored. Oh and OP: gonnamissya /thread

Err...since you are not willing to give bioware your money anyway, (see other thread started by you) your posting priviledges should be revoked immediately. Also you should be removed from the early access invitation list. Good bye.

OK, OP, you apologized for your error, it is forgiven. By me anyway. But wouldn't it be great if you had to answer a few SW:TOR trivia questions before being allowed to post? Like: When is the global (tm by BW) release date for SW:TOR? Will you be able to play on any server fron any country (provided you were able to get the game?) Did you read the official game FAQ? Oh sweet joy of dreaming And sorry for being a d*ck here. No hard feelings.

I so love it, when a question which is asked over and over and over again is being answered over and over and over and, yes, over again. And being answered publicly as well, not only on twitter, but, if you care to read the dev-tracker, here as well. So, the facts, that things are being done the way they are, and will not be changed are known. For those who actually care to look up on them. Now, after the maybe 150th time, the one doing the answering has about enough and says in a quite british way: "No, has been said before, next. And don't ask again, I have more pressing matters to attend to". And then, to top it all off, this is being criticized harshly here on the forums. It's not like he said "Look, you [expletive deleted], I've had about enough, you [expletive deleted], [expletive deleted] son of a [expletive deleted]. Next time I'll see this [expletive deleted] question again, I'm going to visit your home and [expletive deleted] your whole family." But still, he is community manager and therefore has to bend over to all of your requests, no matter how often they come up. and then, when he has all of your sticks, which all look and feel exact the same, up his butt, he still has to ask for more painful stuff you can cram up his. Do you never-getting-enough folks actually know what you're asking of Steven Reid? Have you actually tried for one milisecond to see things from his POV? No? You should try. Lack of communication..fine. Can and must be criticized. But in this case, it has been communicated (over and over again) that no specific schedule will be put out (which has, to a degree changed already), and he can't tell every single person when they'll get in. If people are too stupid (my word, not Reid's) and think that THIS ONE MORE question will get the answer thousands others did't get...well. You may not have gotten what you asked for but what you deserved. Truth hurts.

And here's the long awaited TL;DR: Loads of opinionated stuff.