i love seeing this complaint entirely because it makes much more business sense to emulate a successful formula than to copy a failure. swg was a failure in every way. its part of the reason why they ended up with the cu+nge. even jtl as is often hyped, was a failure. its an incredibly small audience, and was a bolted on mess that didnt integrate with galaxies at all.

first, this isnt wow. second, it is doable with pretty much any makeup. unless you are stacking marauders in an attempt to "cheese" meters. having a well rounded raid group is pretty essential to having a strong presence throughout a dungeon. this is why you dont stack classes. while i can agree its much easier with mostly ranged, especially on the first 2 fights, its still very doable with mostly melee. especially if they are running double sorc as healers. the enrage isnt tight enough that even with the dps running out that they cant beat it assuming they are playing up to expectation and actually know the strat aswell as they seem to think they do (which i doubt).

what information? another soon? its kind of apparent that there is no information on it, especially when there are more important things that they should be focused on than a "feature" that is far from required.

its not some grand conspiracy. erickson has posted a couple times as to why we dont currently have chat bubbles, which is why they dont continue to answer that question. as to when we will get them, its probably going to be when they have the time/ability to figure out how to fix the issues they were causing.

while thats true, asserting that a jtl type expac will "save" swtor when evidence shows otherwise is insane.

the boss gets a giant red buff when enrage hits. better question, why are you hitting enrage?

no, the fight is about execution instead of over gearing it. if you are bashing your head on it then you need to actually learn the strategy involved.

the devs already have that power. infact they have on there forums a couple of times. players however should never have that power. especially since players using polls to justify those demands create a rabid mass of stupid. when you are simply demanding, or even debating a feature its merely a hypothetical construct. once you add "proof" especially of the physical kind, it becomes a figurehead. its near impossible to stop such a machine, even if it is for the players own good.

care to show some evidence for that? the only "paid" expansion it got was jtl, which has been show to have only netted them 50k subs. the other "major" patches were cu and nge, both of which caused much more harm than good for the game, exactly what you are proposing here to would do. as to its amount of success, it was widely heralded as being the first western mmo to break 1m subs. it had the market position, ip, and devs to make it happen and it failed. when it topped out at 300k it was widely believed that there just wasnt the market to reach those numbers in the west. wow showed otherwise, which is why you saw the cu and eventually the nge in the first place. http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png wow only has 2 worlds, as for "atmospheric" flight its nowhere near as in depth as you want, and widely considered by many to be far worse for the game than a betterment. kinda like arena. even in terms of pvp the 2 communities (sandbox and themepark) dont mix well. i would love to see an actual "hybrid" that mixed enough parts of both to keep both happy, cause it hasnt happend yet, and i honestly dont believe its possible. niche games are the way of the future, not mega conglomerates. they are cheaper and easier to make and overall offer a much better experience than what you can get elsewhere. while they wont boast the sub numbers, they will have a more die hard playerbase (like galaxies) than something like wow. yes, i am. you do have room to change your story, within the story presented to you. i honestly think thats what most of the issues are with in terms of expectations for the game. you are being presented a story, that you can make decisions within, that does make changes in the overall story arc. you arent being given the "freedom" to flat create your own story. mostly because its not possible. galaxies is really the only game that has actually allowed anywhere near that kind of freedom, and they had to give up for too much to get it. why, they have stated time and again that they need 500k to be successful. even if that isnt the case the fact that you think that the studio that has already pissed away a ton of money can "cheaply and quickly" make a jtl type expansion when that very same jtl expansion can only be credited to have made a 50k net in subs is insane.

yes, a sandbox game that topped out at 300k subs when it was widely believed at the time it would be the first western mmo to break 1m. a game that could only afford one major content update {jtl) which didnt increase subs. in fact in an attempt to increase subs to what was then considered a chance for it to reach the numbers it "deserved" did a combat upgrade, then the nge in an attempt to stop bleeding subs. we know how that worked out, and now you propose something similar here? also, please show me a single game that actually gives the ability to actually progress in the way that you want. the most that i personally have seen is a tech demo based on an engine that isnt even complete, and we wont see an actual game for minimum 2-3 years, probably closer to 4-5. the actual memory required from the server is immense. the only reason that eve gets away with it is because so much of its space is blatantly empty. with nothing like the kind of memory required for current planets. its the very reason why when blizzard redid "old world" for flying the flight ceiling is so low. even without any of that, this is the "luke and han" experience, not the "uncle owen". bioware has stated time and again, its about the story. not about being an asteroid miner, or a dancer, or some random guy doing stuff. there is a very real possibility that this game is not for you, even if it does say star wars on it.

except they are not. its a pretty common misconception though. very similar to "dummies are a good way to test dps". depending on how the poll itself is written, and the members that are polled, it will make a drastic difference in outcomes. it also opens up all kinds of dumb behavior like players demanding something because of some random poorly done poll. feel free to look up a chunk of lord_ravenhurst for a great example.

i understand that. i still disagree. mainly because the game doesnt feel like vanilla wow with lightsabers to me. i wouldnt term what the game needs as "changes" so much as "additions and fixes". the number of things, and the number of ways, that they want the game "changed" would be effectively an nge, which is not a good thing. even the changes that i would like to make i dont honestly believe would be for the better in terms of the overall health of the game. which is where most of the problems with what everyone desires start to begin.

if they saw an actual profit margin in it worth the investment do you honestly believe they wouldnt or couldnt? although, i also disagree with actiblizz being desperate. they are anything but honestly. especially when you take into consideration the sheer amount of money their franchises are actually making. just from the designs in sc2 and d3 where they have total control and a cut of EVERYTHING that happens with the titles they will more than support themselves. many have even speculated that wow is financing titan, which is psuedo true, but if that is the case than it has cost more for production than swtor has many times over. while you cant deny that they have laid off staff, or made grabs at sub retention, i wouldnt shift the blame for that onto "being desperate" merely greedy. right now based entirely on sales reports alone they could give all of their subscribers free subs for a year, with free services and still operate for 2 years before having to actually think about filing bankruptcy.

goretzu, honestly i feel like you are being purposefully dense just to be a dick. iif thats true or not, i honestly dont know. with that said, ill address those areas where you arent being outright silly. first, this a poor measurement of retention. especially when you consider the numbers released in january when they had 2m sales and only 1.7 million active. while im not denying that subs have dropped, the number you use to calculate needs to be based on the number of actual subs there were to begin with, not with how many boxes were sold. also, 50% is not average to below average, 30% is average retention rate. even wow, the reigning champ, admitted pre wotlk that it had lost enough subs to replace its existing playerbase 7 times over. im kinda curious where they are at now in terms of overall loss vs growth. actually, based on the information from this blog http://rubenfield.com/?p=86 written by one of the lead devs of galaxies it was about middle from what each of us has said. but i can see the 300k number too, especially when pulling it from things like http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png the problem being data from mmodata has been known to be inaccurate. different business models. mmos in general dont make their main profits based on box sales (although some have used that business model, guild wars for example) they rely on sub retention. space shooters/flight sims havent sold well. the last "AAA" title to launch was freespace 2, which even with high reviews and generally being heralded as the "quintessential" flight game sold VERY poorly. its why there was not a freespace 3. here, it wouldnt. it would change the entire feel of planets depending on what time you were in. i personally hate the night time mechanics of fallout 3 for instance, and even disliked them in wow. as for tsw, when actually having to see parts of the gameworld is required to complete quests (it is much more old school in that respect) it being dark out is a pita that just changing your gamma doesnt really fix. flat believe you, no. i would find a number of sources, preferably get my hands on them, and then form an opinion based on data. as it is, i would agree, those games by todays standards are rubbish. if i cant get first hand experience, i will find 2nd hand to form/base and opinion on, generally from those whose opinion i can trust. i guess based on your statement that you never read or generally take into account others impressions or reviews on games? thats completely contradictory to your rvr and world pvp stance though. isnt the point of world pvp servers to be ready for pvp at any time? why is it that every game in the mmo space that is based entirely on pvp has failed or done very poorly? its because its out of the mainstream. the mainstream want to be gods among men, the traditional rambo. its why the majority of the pvp playerbase is of the mentality of "i killed you, therefore you must suck". dont get me wrong, the pve side is also getting to be that way, which is really sad and rather apparent in how the playerbase is degenerating. in general though its the very crux of the argument that "insert content i dont like" takes no skill. indeed. which is why i say world pvp is dead. how tsw is doing the pvp/pve balance is pretty awesome. if anything its the kind of model future mmos should consider. they wont, because the title wont be hugely successful, but thats the nature of the industry. thats the point. it didnt. it was poorly implemented, and poorly integrated. it wasnt a part of the game, it was another game bolted on. honestly man, i get it. your a dreamer. in your own way you want what you think is best for the game. so do i, but, there is a difference between what would be "best" based on what we want (especially considering that we want very different things) and what we are actually going to get. you want a full flight space sim. sure. bioware could even do a good job. however, they have neither the time, nor the money, to do it justice. no matter what they implement, a large number of people will be unhappy with it because of what they have set their expectations to. as previously stated, the flight market itself cant even come to agreement on if it should be more xvt or battlefront 2. you want open world rvr, when i want controlled, rvrv. you want massive battles instead of (the much better) skirmishes. they all have their place. in order for us to get ANY of it however there must be a fairly well developed return on investment. which historically has not been the case. you want to claim that certain things are doing well, even thriving, when in reality they are not. its why we are not seeing new releases, and the releases we are seeing are doing poorly. you should try actually reading the article. its got some pretty convincing evidence, which contrary to pure opinion, is how the world functions. worse, would be not fun for me. wow is a great game for people. its a fact. the 10m subs proves it. however its worse than swtor is FOR ME. its that "for me" part that you dont seem to be able to actually wrap your head around. the game you want to turn swtor into i wouldnt sub to. that was my original point incase you missed it. you keep saying things as though you speak for the majority, where honestly neither of us do. though generally i dont presume to speak as though i do unless there is some sort of evidence backing it,. such as the subjective fact that wow is great for tons of people. see, its this kind of snarky ******** that is actually detrimental to your argument. more people subbing to a game means its more successful. the problem with that however is usually the means by which devs have to do to make that happen. making the game a convoluted generalised mess with mutliple game types all slammed together is not a good game. even if many people subbed to it. most popular is not always "best" though it is usually a good indication. personally i would much rather have a good game than a popular one. i would love that. however, the majority dont. wow tried this and it bombed horribly. even with the controls and such being solid. while this is something i would play, and enjoy, its very unlikely to be made since it historically does not work well. i loved spelljammer. i actualy played the tabletop (after converting it to d20 system) for awhile. i would love to see a game company take it and actually use it as a property. wont happen because its never been very popular, but it is something i would like to see. as for the pandas, considering the preorders and general excitement over mop, its nowhere near the flop predicted. i personally dont care for it. it very much factored into my decision to unsub from wow. but what you and i dont like enough other people do to make it worthwhile. really, to get back on topic, i dont see the amount of money being needed actually being generated by adding the features. especially in light of the amount of time required to "bring them up to par". some of which are really quite debateable as to what should even be included based entirely on what the game was both advertised as, and how its development vision has been relized. if anything, this thread http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=20945.560;wap2 is a pretty great overview of just how badly galaxies failed. its also got some pretty great reasoning and evidence as to why we wont see another like it in a very long time.

exactly, but everything is still compared to wow as the standard because of it. contrary to popular opinion swtor is doing ok, not amazing, but ok. it still needs some work, but that work is slowly but surely coming along. d3 isnt, but it still fills a similar niche. i had a pre order till i got a hold of the beta and actually started following it, then i cancelled it. i know of upwards of 50 players personally that bought the year sub to wow purely to play d3. d3 is at best getting a false start because it doesnt really even feel like a diablo game. both 1 and 2 had pretty distinct feels to them. this feels like wow in a non persistent world where you can only have a couple of your friends. even the story is mediocre, especially when you compare it against games like torchlight 2 (which actually has a ton of devs from the original diablo games). i dont think he is spot on though. i think listening to any of the segments, and catering directly to them, will be a deathknell for this game and how its design vision has been put forth. if you listen to any of them they want to make changes on an nge level, and we saw how well that worked.

first, if you "cant compromise" your aug slots you need to play better. aug slots both put you above the gear curve, and increase your survivability MUCH faster and better than they increase dps. considering that even the survival aspect is minor, and very easily mitigated by paying attention, you can easily skip them without issue, that said, its touched on at the 24min mark. actual dye kits are touched on in that same vid at 29:30. i know they went into better detail on another panel, i believe it was the "all the rest panel" but i dont have time to go through all of the videos to pull out the exact timestamp. you can find a list of all of the panels here http://toroz.com.au/2012/04/2012-guild-summit-videos-now-available/ because value wise, especially for appearance, it equates all items to greens, as they are the easiest to acquire and produce. it terms of mechanics it equates them to the lvl 11 and 23 patterns in terms of mechanics, as those are generally the cheapest oranges to produce, especially in a crit crafted fashion. generally, and its especially true while leveling, oranges are better than purple recipes. with the purples only beating them with a t2 prefix and correct itemization, when its much easier, and likely, to find the mods for those levels instead. a tabs would be a GREAT change for the consumer, in the short term, because it would drops existing prices. however, in the long term it would destroy the sconomy. once prices drop to the point that crafters CANT compete and make a decent percentage of profit, they wont craft. when crafters stop crafting, you wont be able to easily find any of those patterns that you desire. except there are few to zero patterns that are currently crafter exclusive. i havent found any atleast. thats actually not true. why would you buy from a crafter if you can get it for free, or cheaper, as a drop? why as a crafter would i make items that i cant make a decent percentage return on? see, this is where we disagree. the custom system is working as intended. what it needs, and what bioware has repeatedly stated they will give "soon", is more options. after playing with the orange system i really cant see how solid statted gear will have a place going forward, and in point of fact its the next logical step from wow with its reforge system. the existing crafting system in tsw is also very similar, though they go about it in a very different way.

this ^^. for instance he claims that tsw is b2p when it has the same sub structure as swtor does, with a cash shop similar to wow to boot. however it doesnt change his point. the days of the 10m sub game are dwindling, especially for any newbies on the block. as the current "success" of d3 proves. thats pretty unfair. the same can be said of the galaxies 2 crew, or the daoc in space, or the must have every game type from every star wars game EVAR crew. there are parts of the game that i very much enjoy, and i play those parts. however that doesnt mean there isnt a ton of things i would like changed. like more difficult combat (tsw is doing an amazing job with that) or more general customization options, more gear colors/body types/etc.

never stated that they couldnt. merely that it wont come anytime soon. bioware stated months ago that they were working on a "big space project" and yet you are still here clamoring for it. even if it is jtl like, it wont be out for close to another year yet. how many are honestly going to wait until next year to see that come to fruition? poor math pulled out of your behind is bad. its closer to 30% overall sub loss, which is a much higher retention than is par for the course. even with the "free padding" as you say, none of those numbers include the new countries just launched in etc. without a hard source of numbers it works out to be a wash. the sub reports i have seen dont show that at all. as i outlined above. really? so we havent had several high profile releases of "aaa" mmo titles planned to release this year alone? we didnt have 2 launch last year? sure seems to be much higher than the last GOOD space game. thats right, you just hate the world building, the customization and the pvp. some of the biggest things in game. some of which i actually like. your complaint about day/night cycles for instance, i like the way they are here. its one of the few things about tsw i actually REALLY dont care for. it doesnt make the world any more "alive" and increases the difficulty in questing. thats right, it will be plagued by others. that segment itself cant make up its mind whether it wants jtl, battlefront 2, or xvt as its model for free flight. no matter what is actually implemented it will anger a chunk of the playerbase purely because it wont match their preconceptions. its the very reason why i really wish people would stop attempting to turn the game into things its not, and focus on what it is, and how to improve that. no, bioware wants illum, but they want a working illum, which they are supposedly deving the tech for. no, they want rvr until they get it, and then they shy away when it doesnt mean the AWESOME expectations they feel it should be. most pvp suffers from this. unfair pvp however has the most issues. this playerbase, and most pvpers, refuse to participate when they know they cant win. its why we have pve content thats nerfed to crap, and its why the pvp community doesnt take advantage of the pvp areas that already exist. if you honestly think they are going to go against the entire story design of the game by adding essentially an entire new way of playing that isnt actually tied to your story in any way you are delusional. you ever wonder why pvp is so much slower xp gain over essentially any pve? Wait you mean because you said 10-20 a side in Ilum was ok that you mean pink elephants will take over the world by Tuesday? It's very easy to make things up isn't it. No SWTOR wasn't marked as the spiritual successor to them and certainly wasn't designed to be like them, but it did promise quite heavily RvR in the pre-Live hype and much better PvP. except i didnt make anything up. you attempted to state that swtor needs to have massive sweeping battles just like other titles have had, which is not only stupid (you lose all tactical control at that point) but impossible with the engine in its existing state. even if they rework the engine, and fix most of those optimization problems, that kind of combat has never been a part of the star wars universe. even with the likes of battlefront (hooray cashcow) it failed to deliver on that same feeling that war and planetside did. this game is not designed to be like them. you are asking for a fundamental game design change. especially when things like that generally dont work well with the same kinds of gear systems that we have here. more things are impacted than just "pvp style". if the rvr is so amazing in rift, why arent you playing that? i know from experience from both planetside and now tsw that really, the 3 side thing doesnt work out so well. so far from what i have heard from rift its backfiring pretty bad there. from what i have heard from gw2 its "fun" but gets old really fast. that on top of many other problems is why its been pushed back to october. thats a matter of opinion i dont share. i actually like the design of illum. the only issues i ever had with it is the "lack" of a semi balanced team for both sides. sweeping or being swept isnt fun. based on reviews, mediocre to terrible control scheme, extremely high learning curve, and massive lack of variety in missions. all 3 of which i have heard repeated, once of twice in this very thread. as for space games, i actually have sins of a solar empire and the browser based bsg shooter on my hard drive right now. i have some terrible star trek wanna be flight sim around here somewhere, along with rogue squadron 1+2 for n64 and gamecube, then you really have to go back to wing commander 1-4 for playstation. most of those i actually havent touched in ages. i like space. as i keep saying i would LOVE a new xvt game. however, i also know im unlikely to get one anytime soon. no matter what i, or you, or half a million people, believe one wont get made until you have both a developer prepared to make it, and someone willing to back them with cash to do so. as i stated earlier i do currently have my eye on starlight inception, it has potential. i do thoroughly enjoy the genre (rogue squadron was the first game i bought for my n64, which inspired me to buy all the comics and novels) but just like tv, it requires a number of people to watch it to make it feasible to get more. i was quite upset when sci fi canceled stargate universe for instance. writing a ton of forum posts about it doesnt actually do any good. its actually not baseless. while per individual pvp has a higher roi, it loses out based entirely on numbers. or have you not counted the number of pve vs pvp servers in pretty much every game to launch that has both. to put it frankly, you are outnumbered pretty close to 3:1. see, there you go putting words in my mouth. i honestly believe that swtor is a great game. its why i have been subbed since prerelease and continue to be. its why i still log in almost every day, even when i have access to many other games. are there parts of swtor i dont like, of course. i have yet to find a single game that didnt have "issues" or something that i just personally didnt like. but to have such an ego as to believe that changing it at the highest levels to suit my preferences actually made the game "better" is insane. sure, if they were made well they would be "good". your major flaw is the definition of "good". in reality what would have to be done to make those "good" would be nge levels of changes. which if swg proved more than anything, its that major changes such as that do more harm in alienating people than they do towards making a "good" game. instead of going through and giving you a list of poor box sales, here is a great article that explains it much better than i ever could. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_54/324-Lost-in-the-Void define "better". get more subs, probably. no denying that more subs is a good thing. however further fragmenting the population, and generally throwing multiple game types together does not. look at how well the pve/pvp mashup has gone for instance. pve, particularly raiding, requires acquisition of gear to further progress to take on more fights. this "standard" has turned the original (most balanced form) of pvp and corrupted it into the gear grind that most pvpers state that they hate. further corruption, especially when we cant reliably foresee the consequences, is not a good thing. right, because there is no space travel, or space ships for that matter in wow. if you honestly dont think that if actiblizz wanted to compete with eve, or even jtl at the time, that they wouldnt have? its not a big enough niche to shoot for. the evidence is obvious in the VERY LACK OF IT.

exactly, which is why the majority of huge releases are fps and wow clones. still, even for that smaller company, you have to be able to show an overall profitability, and have to be in a position to exploit it. as lord ravenbad above so kindly showed the genre IS changing, but we are still 18+ months out from anything actually coming out to fill it. building a game, especially one thats quality takes a large amount of time. generally more time the less money that is involved.

so in other words, chicken or the egg? if market research showed enough promise then its possible to find funding. instead games that show a ton of promise (look up starlight inception) are instead having to rely on things like kickstarter to attempt to make it happen.

no, the community would like those making suggestions to actually be QUALIFIED to make them. endlessly asking for things that are already being made, or talked about does nothing but waste time. especially when what is already being asked for here is in other threads on the board. it kinda comes in the total package of being able to change ones interior. again with "qualified" suggestions. do you ignore the walls when you decorate a house?

i can know that based on the general dev time and cost of game creation. to produce a new game+marry it to swtor is looking at 18 months and probably in the ballpark of 2-7million, depending on how many people they throw at the project. care to show me evidence to support that? based on the earnings calls, and reported subs that i have seen, swg had a large spike at release, then lost roughly half their subs in the first 3 months. then it gradually lost subs going toward jtl. when jtl hit there was another spike, then they once again lost subs and went back to a pretty stable number that was within 5% of the sub number before it. generally with how much cost went into it, there was nowhere near the return. probably why galaxies didnt get another major expac after that. you are quite correct, i would be wrong if i said all space games were dead. however, thats not what i said at all. what i said, which i will reiterate, is that the spacesim/shooter genre is dead. we are seeing next to no games being made within that genre, and what we are being seen made, arent selling well. across pc and platforms. which is why industry analysts (the beancounters) dont see it as a viable business model. if players arent buying why would they ever try to cater to that market? this is entirely hyperbole without any evidence to back it up. in fact, the actual sub reports seem to disagree with you. while its very possible for bioware to do better, why exactly do you have that opinion? you hate most of their design, why would this suddenly have a chance to be amazing? so, what you dont want is illum, or swtor, you want daoc in space. we have had this discussion before, where you seem to think that just because it doesnt match what you consider to be rvr, it isnt, or its terrible. the general definition actually fits a number of games, and areas within said games, even if you dont like it. its ok for people to like things you dont you know. wait, you mean swtor was marketed as the spiritual successor to those games, or designed to be like them? i will admit that they did market illum as 100v100, which they shouldnt have done. the engine really cant handle those kinds of numbers in one place. who, and how that mistake was made is something that i dont know, but this isnt supposed to be like any of those games. this is the kind of unreasonable expectations im referring to. nope, currently jtl actually holds that honor, which is a big part pf the reason why we wont see another like it. except that whole thing where you want it to copy something else entirely instead of relying on its own design and merits. the two paradigms of "what makes good pvp" and "what makes good pve" dont mesh well. and unfortunately for you, pve makes more money. based on what exactly? hope and conjecture? except that little thing about how i do. based on actual sub and sales numbers. i agree that rubbish is rubbish, the difference is i have tempered expectations based in reality. bioware is not going to just pull a jtl+daoc expac out of its butt. its expensive, and VERY time consuming. neither of which are going to happen anytime soon, nor is the GIMME GIMME GIMME playerbase going to stick around long enough to fund it and keep it running. not really. while i can agree that the "genre" of sci fi is doing fine, space shooters/flight sims are not. heck, even in popular media this is the first time in pretty much ever that there is no space on tv. no star trek, no stargate, no bsg. no wonky random stuff that only lasts 1-2 seasons. none, at all. there is no viewership for it. there hasnt been a "blockbuster" game released in many,. many years that is space focused that has sold well, outside of shooters atleast. how exactly do you go with "healthy and fine"? please, show me the evidence that says swtor will retain, or create, enough subs to make that worthwhile. cause based on the previous things you want copied it is not the case.

except for that little snag of appearance tabs creating more problems than they solve. but thats been done to death. as to mod level, you do. drops especially are always 1 level higher than the level of the armor that they are in. even without that as a guide, just looking at mod progression will tell you the level of the item based on itemization. overall perhaps the entire mod system is "too complicated" for you, which is why you find it cumbersome and "inconvient". the system works exactly as advertised, and completes all of the goals its set forth. the only issues that you have brought up with it are ones that you have created.

yes. the only way to be completely self sufficient, is through multiple characters. the only real complaint i have with the existing system is the number of crew skills that require underworld trading metals. if they dont want to buy directly from the gtn, then there are always the purchased missions that give you set returns.

but it isnt. its balanced across the market and intended for crew missions not to be your sole provider of materials. the crafting is designed so that no one is completely self sufficient. overall its required for a healthy economy.