YOU WILL BE JUDGED BY THE ALMIGHTY LUCAS!!!

Mrglglglglgl

I liked all of the BH quotes. My favorite, other than the Jedi mind-trick thing, was during one of the starter quests.

You are right on this part. However, we were not talking about casted offensive spells, we were talking about using the 5 second root to cast instant defensive abilities (shield, 1.5s gcd), item buffs (no gcd that I know of), and heals (1.5-3 second cast times). If we were talking about offensive abilities, you only get one freecast (due to root breaking on damage) before your opponent has the ability to charge, vanish, or LoS you.

Did anyone else think this was about the names Powertech Pyrotech? Just-tech sounds-tech like-tech a-tech lot-tech of-tech tech-tech.

Lol I understand this quite well. My brother played a rogue for 7 years, along with a druid, a priest, and paladin. I, on the other hand, played an elemental/resto shaman, frost dk, and a demonology warlock. You can imagine the conversations we had.

1. Thankyou for this useful information on the workings of Energy, but I somehow doubt that the regen is as poor as you make it out to be, otherwise Operatives wouldn't be very effective healers even if in Heal spec. 2. The gcd, quite honestly, is useless. The gcd only effects instant casts, and it is to such a small degree that it is barely even noticeable unless you are nitpicking. To casted abilities, gcd might as well not even be there since it is 1.5 seconds, and nearly all (if not all) casted abilities are at least 1.5 second casts (before alacrity). 3. It might just be my bad luck, but everytime I run across an Operative their vanish is off cd, so they vanish as soon as I knock them back. Also, in my original post regarding applying buff/whatever while rooted, I was referring to all classes, not Operatives. Not every class has every possible thing in the game, if they did you might as well be playing rock, rock, rock instead of rock, paper, scissors. 4. I have recently learned that the talent you mentioned a few posts back only increases the knockback range, the root breaking upon damage still applies.

Aha! Thankyou for this information!

1. I have never played an agent, or a rogue back in WoW, but from what I can tell energy is basically the same as heat but it moves in opposite directions (energy goes from 100-0, I don't know what the regen rate is; Heat goes from 0-100 with regen rate based on the current level of heat). This being said, healing has never gimped my ability to continue to dps in a fight, especially when I have the time provided by a knockback (including being knocked back) to freecast those heals (Even when I was Arsenal spec). 2. My point in them being instant is that they are not something you can only do while your opponent is knocked back, and it provides no benefit to do while your enemy is knocked back that you would not also gain were your opponent in your face. Especially the bubble. 3. So because you have nothing to gain due to prior useage of cooldowns means that everybody in a similar situation has nothing to gain? This is even more absurd.

I'm not opposed to diminishing returns, I have not seen it proposed. I am also not opposed to a knockback filling up 40-50% of the resolve bar. These are both new suggestions that I have not seen previously mentioned. I would also except the counter proposed by the OP on page 8. These kinds of ideas are what turns a thread from childish whining into contructive and useful suggestions. Previously this thread has been the former. It was only ever my goal to turn it into the latter by providing evidence that counters do indeed exist, if not necessarily the counters that everyone wants.

I could go for something like this. I would suggest that you copy this and paste it into your OP, so that it doesn't look like another "Wah, Nerf <blank>" thread like it has up till now. Of course, this would all depend on the cd of the proposed self-root. If the cd is shorter than the cd of the knockbacks, it would not be balanced, if the root effect was 1s, it would not be balanced. The energy cost could be 0 for all I care, resources aren't a huge factor for any class.

Provide an example of a counter you would accept. You have not yet done so. Hint: "Take it out of the game" isn't a counter. Also, ROFL back at ya kid.

So what exactly do you want? I'm curious now. Cause, last I checked, your opener was nerfed, not taken away. Propose a nerf and we will consider you as having a purpose. The only thing you seem to be wanting is to have knockbacks entirely taken away, this isn't a nerf, it's a gimp. A Severe one.

A. Yes it does, look at the link you provided to me. B. Depending on the class you knocked back, they can do the same things, except bubble. If they are a warrior, and you are healing up, they can wait till right before root ends and pop their trinkets, stims, whatever, then charge to you. The bubble, trinkets, and recklessness are all instant casts, the only thing you actually gain when you knock an enemy back is time to heal.

Our counterplay to your stun is on a long cooldown. That and resolve bar. What you are asking for, because of ONE WZ is for an entire gap-opener to be taken away, and leave ALL gap closers. There is no compromise, no thinking long-term, only "me me me me me". That is why it is silly. Tell me, aside from our cooldown, which has probably been used already on another Operative's stun, and resolve, which you can easily wait for to run out while you lol stealth-stalk before you open, what is our counter? Answer is knockback. Long story short: "Take away the main counter to my opener! Me me me ME!"

Read my above post.

True enough, but this root also breaks early if you take any damage after 2 seconds. Which means, they get approximately one cast off on you before you can resume the counters I have mentioned. If you die within that one cast, chances are you weren't going to survive the encounter anyway considering all ranged classes except snipers can also heal.

You still have timing as a counter. Has a teammate been knocked off the bridge within the last 10-15 seconds? If so, the knockback is on cooldown. Either way, your whole thread is silly. Nerfing Knockback is not the answer (Unless the question is "should we severely gimp ranged?"). What you should be calling for is an edit to the Voidstar bridges, such as walls that players cant be knocked over lining said bridges.

Ah, I didn't know about that. Does the cc break work on them? If it does, use it. Do you play a class that has pull? Pull them. Is it a cleanse-able effect and are you a class that has a cleanse? Cleanse it. I need more information on this root.

You can stealth while running across the bridge.

pull, stealth, walk under the cat walk to LoS the ranged class until he/she focuses someone else, then catch them unaware.

I don't know of any Knockback with a root. The only one I know of that is commonly called a root is the slow provided by Jet Boost, which doesnt immobolize you so all counters are still valid. If there is another knockback with a root, please let me know, I will come up with something.

In the first page you said that charges are not counters to knockbacks. This is just plain false. Knockbacks are the counters to charge, and therefore charge is also the counter to knocback. Scenario 1: Warrior charges to ranged class, ranged class uses knockback: Charge countered, warrior has been outplayed. Scenario 2: Warrior runs to ranged class while using LoS to minimize damage taken (or out right runs up to him/her while they are tunneling on a different enemy), ranged class uses knockback, warrior uses charge: Knockback countered, ranged class has been outplayed. Considering most knockbacks are of a very short distance (except the Merc Jet Boost) and both warrior ACs have a 2nd charge available to them if they choose to spec the shared tree, I present to you: Scenario 3: Warrior uses his long range charge, ranged class uses knockback, warrior uses 10 meter charge. I realize these 3 scenarios only apply to Warriors, but similar scenarios can be utilized by any class with a pull function as well. For Stealthies, well you have a vanish, use it. Vanish on cd? LoS is your friend. In closing, charge/pull/stealth are all counters to knockback. Choose to forego those options? LoS is a counter provided to all players smart enough to make use of them. Forego using any of the above? You got outplayed.

Great guide, very informative.

If they waste heatseeker and railshot because you interrupted them they are idiots, unless they already have the stacks they need. If I were still Arsenal, I would just use their big knockback to send you flying then slow your advance with Unload. Chances are the next time they use TM Unload's cooldown will just reset anyways.