Gankstah
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Posts posted by Gankstah
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I ran a Hammer run last night on my alt. We had two tanks both of whom insisted on guarding each other.
I **** you not.
Needless to say I, the healer, and our melee DPS ended up getting the lion's share of aggro. Your guard priority should always be Melee DPS>Ranged DPS>Heals. The only time this should deviate is in cases of gear/level disparity and PvP.
Period.
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My... that's a little aggressive.
My tolerance for, "make tanking easier" threads has hit zero.
TOR isn't hard.
Tanking isn't hard.
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My thoughts on the vengeance build.
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To address the OP without stating what's already been said,
Early Flashpoints are specifically designed to be low key. Esselles/Black Talon for instance, is designed with the understanding that the group would neither have a Tank nor a healer. Since Tanks don't really become tanks until their mid 30s and healers don't start packing a punch until late 30s early 40s BioWare designed Flashpoints to be very laid back.
Once you start in on HM/NMM/Ops you'll find more of that challenge you crave. Up until then the game is about enjoying the story and getting proficient with your class.
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This seems to be the place to ask and most threads i could find were only people complaining. So I have to ask is the Sins threat lower then other tanks?? When I run hard modes unless im perfect with my "rotation" I lose threat and lose it fast.
If you're confident that CC is what's causing your problem than you're half way to solving your own issue.
DPS needs to be instructed to throttle back to prevent aggro drop during those moments. Likewise you need to stay very far away from the rest of your party. If your healer or your DPS get within melee range of the mob in question, they will pull aggro completely off of you and there's nothing you can do about it.
So make sure when facing against known kb mobs you position yourself in a way that if a kb happens you're not dragging your target into your party. Any melee DPS you have should be under guard. Not your healer or ranged DPS.
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...when there's one mob out of 4 that's off to one side, being able to pull just the other three would be a nice application of skill and planning.
That one mob "off to the side" is explicitly put there FOR A REASON.
That reason being exactly what you're complaining there is a lack of, "skill and planning". Just because the encounters aren't designed to YOUR liking doesn't mean they aren't designed for a reason. And what you're asking for isn't implemented in any MMO anywhere.
You can't pull just one mob or several mobs that are tethered as a group leaving the rest behind without the use of CC. It would defeat the purpose of tethering. That is neither "skillful" or a good example of "planning". That's asking for the easy way out.
If you want to show off your "skill" or "planning" expertise then instead of whining about it on the forums I suggest you do what the rest of us do, tackle these encounters as they are designed without treating every pull like they're a tank n spank. These encounters are instituted with LOS, CC and utilities in mind. Try thinking outside the box and see what you come up with instead of zerging every pull like we were back in pre-Luclin.
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Nameplate click to target and adding a target of target frame would be two simple and huge quality of life improvements for tanks.
This is no excuse.
I'm not saying that these wouldn't be.welcome additions. In fact I hope they are added promptly BUT, there's always a "but", 1.) pulls aren't big enough in TOR that tab targeting is impossible. There are only two end game encounters where tab targeting is difficult. 2.) There is an in game mechanic that allows for primary target hot swapping. Finally, 3.) You have the ability to mark targets and on top of that marked targets show up in the Target frame so "accidentally" targeting the wrong mark is code for, "I wasn't paying attention."
The tools are there for use. PLENTY of people are using them and succeeding. There are only two excuses that another person cannot succeed just as well as I or others: laziness and ineptitude. End of story.
Yes, those tools will be welcomed but the fact is TOR stresses tactics over quantity. The quantity of targets is reduced and complexity scaled. So targeting is just an excuse for failure--not the reason. I have zero sympathy for people who fail and whine instead of trying to examine WHY they failed and in turn over come.
There are plenty of people out there succeeding with little issue, there's no reason others can't as well.
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Everything you listed are challenges specifically designed to be, you know, challenging.
This is part of what sets TOR apart from typical MMO tanking. These aren't flaws in game design these are hurdles integrated specifically to challenge players. Some challenges are easier to overcome with a particular group make up. Whilst that same make up will falter in other challenges.
Tanking isn't SUPPOSED to be easy.
People have been whining for years that MMOs were faceroll easy. Then when a developer injects content intended to step away from the mundane all you get is more whining from the same whiners who were crying like school girls that it was too easy to begin with. It never ends.
There is not one pull in this game, not ONE, that can't be overcome with ease if players would just stop and think instead of treating all of it like it were a tank n spank. I would bet dollars to dimes there isn't one person on this forum who complains about mob CC that could tell me what mob TYPE is primarily responsible for the CC they encounter.
In fact I bet they probably didn't even know there were mob types/classes.
And these are the people crying that its too hard.
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Tanks should be able to gather everything up if it does, Pop Cooldowns and hope you can get something dead.
What would give you the idea that a Tank in TOR should be able to do this?
As it is, and accidental add has me sucking wind, constantly having to pull a mob off someone.And why do you think that is?
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I am just happy playing Sin/Shadow overall...
Which is all that matters.
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I don't see what the problem is here?
People raced to 50 and are now having problems queing for WFs? And that's BioWares fault? If you have no other passtimes and are a heavy player that's not BioWares fault.
What you're witnessing right now is the PvP version of the Hardcore Raiders whine, "There's no endgame!" It's not their fault that you have nothing better to do but game. You are a minority. The VAST minority. Casuals are the lifeblood of this industry.
Learn to slow down and enjoy the game like a normal human being or be prepared to reroll.
I feel no sympathy for those lonely 50s out there. I have a 50 Jugg who is currently shelved. Know what I'm doing? I'm playing my medic on republic side of my server. You know what I'm not doing?
Crying about it on the forums.
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15k HP
45% DR
22% Defence 33% buffed
42% Shield
49% Absorption
I'm sitting in all custom gear save my belt and hands which are mastercrafts. Ear, Shield and both Implants are also mastercrafts. I'm living proof that you can perform without looted PvE gear.
The only thing PvE gear supplies you with is copious amounts of Endurance at the expense of secondary stats. With the loss of secondary stats you essentially have to have more End in order to compensate. With higher mean mitigation but lower End your TTL remains roughly the same.
As soon as they allow me to gut the armoring out of shelved PvE gear my End will hopefully go up quite a bit. If you can get near or past these stats you'll be more than well equipped.
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What is the point of this thread?
You want suggestions yet you've already definitively said "no" to all of your options. This is equivalent to saying,
"Someone help me. I currently drink Coke. My only other option is Pepsi or water. I'm allergic to Pepsi and my water supply is poisoned. Nothing can be done to rectify either situation. Any suggestions?"
You have exactly three options: 1.) Man up and stop being such a chic about how your toon looks. 2.) Roll a PT and get over your story issues. 3.) Put down your purse, stop listening to the whiners and roll a Jugg or Sin.
Either way you're not getting your man card back until you decide to trade in your skirt for some pants.
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OP,
See my sig.
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I never understood the point behind the change.
We all knew it was gonna be trouble. I don't understand why they don't just make all items cosmetically craftable by their respective crafters and then make loot essentially just mods and recipes. It's the EXACT same effect with the bonus of wider availability to target group members.
Crafters get what they want.
Raiders get what they want.
PvPers get what they want.
BioWare still retains itemization.
Literally, everyone wins. Sticking to this archaic loot system we've used for decades isn't the solution. BioWare had the original idea right. Why they changed it is beyond me. Well, no, I know WHY they changed it. The reason was quite explicit.
It's just the reason was stupid.
You can't hybrid a loot system. Either do it this way or do it that way. Don't try to play the middle because you'll just end up with tripe. No body wins with a hybrid system.
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I really despise Jorgen. I'm currently trying to get as much negative affection with him as I can.
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10.4 (base Force/sec) * 1.5 (GCD) = 15.6 Force/GCD
Ah that's right, that's right. That's how I got it. Thank you much. So the 12 GCD rotation should be ending with roughly 34-35 force.
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I honestly find this thread a bit unreal... You guys are focusing on a "who's got the biggest" point of view, as if two tanks in a same party had to compete for aggro. Seriously is that the most useful thing to do ?
I completely 100% wholeheartedly agree.
Which is why I stated in my first post that people are taking things too personally and the differences are minuscule in the grand scheme. I have 2 SA buddies who are also tanks and I have never personally witnessed them have issues holding aggro. It all boils down to the player and more importantly the team.
The only reason I stepped into the conversation was because posters started postulating the use of consecutive Whirling Blows in a 12 second timeframe. Which is the worst possible management of resources. I was simply trying to illustrate that point. The conversation just kind of evolved from there.
But yes, the premise for argument is moot.
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Force Breach has better threat per force than Whirling Blow. And in a situation where you can hit multiple enemies with Whirling Blow/Cyclone Slash, you can also hit them with Overload/Force Wave...
You may feel free to plot a new rotation which is more force:threat conservative. I'm simply using the powers being stressed in this discussion. I promise you though, over time, the end result will be the same.
It also appears that you included Revenge/Courage in the Jugg's priority, but didn't include the Shadow/Assassin's 100% chance to gain 2 force per shield/defense every 1s talent.The sum between GCDs 2 and 3 is wrong. It's off by 10. The rotation should end with 10.6. That's my bad. This was written at 2am so I'm sure its off. I will fix it tonight after work.
As far as regen goes, I was under the impression that the 15.6 sum included this? 12*1.3=15.6. Am I incorrect? I'm posting on a cell atm so I don't have the luxury to swap between websites for a search.
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I assume all threat coefficients are additive: Wither + Stance
Then why did you use multiplicative sums in this post? I'm not trying to call you out, I was just wondering what your thought process was on the matter.
He compared Sweep vs. Whirling Blow in a vacuum.Which was a fallacious argument.
A fallacy I outlined for him and other posters like him who were taking a trip to "lala land". That is why reading and understanding a post in it's entirety is important. Context. Anyway, like I said in my previous post, plotting has to be done in these discussions. Otherwise it's just one person shouting at another person, "NO, MY UNREALISTIC MATH IS THE RIGHT MATH!"
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I'd like to know...
Shouldn't Wither/ST be 3.45 coefficient?
((Wither Base 1.18 * 1.3 Mounting Darkness) * 1.5 Wither Threat Modifier)*1.5 Stance Modifier= 3.45
Anyway, all I did was plot what Arbegla posited in this post.
- (Smash Base 1.35*( Decimate .3 + Heavy Handed .15))*1.5 Stance Modifier= 2.94
- (Sweeping Base .88 * Heavy Handed 1.15)* 1.5 Stance Modifier = 1.52
1x Smash + 4x Sweeps = 9.02
Vs.
- ((Slow Time Base 1.18 * 1.3 Mounting Darkness) * 1.5 Wither Threat Modifier)*1.5 Stance Modifier= 3.45
- (Whirling Base 0.71 * 1.06 Applied Force)*1.5 Stance Modifier= 1.13
1x Slow Time + 3x Whirling = 6.84
CLEARLY in the given situation he posited Sin/Shadow loses out. Which is why I plotted it out for him. Because it was clear he wasn't actually looking at what he was saying. You can't just say, "Oh, well 3x Whirlings equals more than a smash therefore we win." because no Sin/Shadow in their right mind is going to use 3x Whirling blows consecutively unless they're pulling normal/easy mobs.
In NMM that kind of rotation will get you and your party killed.
Here's a brainless AoE priority system that anyone can do as a Shadow:Which will fall behind over time. Your cherry picked presentation illustrates, with my help mind you, one of the Warrior/Guardian's weaknesses: they are back loaded Tanks. Whereas Sins/Shadow's have the potential to be frontloaded tanks. There's a reason I closed out my last post with a "realistic" rotation. And your response was exactly that reason.
So, let's pretend we're going balls to the walls AoE shall we?
GCD Action Force Total AoE Threat Coefficient Total 1 Slow T 70 3.06 2 Whirling 45.6 4.19 3 Whirling 20.2 5.32 4 * 35.8 -- 5 * 51.4 -- 6 Slow T 37 8.38 7 * 52.6 -- 8 Whirling 28.2 9.51 9 * 43.8 -- 10 * 59.4 -- 11 Slow T 35 12.57 12 Whirling 0.6 13.7
vs.
GCD Action Focus AoE Threat Coefficient Total 1 Saber T 3 -- 2 Leap 7 -- 3 Sweep 6 2.94 4 Sunder 9 -- 5 Cyclone 6 4.46 6 Cyclone 4 5.98 7 Sunder 6 -- 8 Cyclone 4 7.5 9 Slash 5 -- 10 Sweep 6 10.44 11 Sunder 8 -- 12 Cyclone 6 11.96
Now, the Sin/Shadow is ahead by .74 and is sitting on an empty resource pool. Meanwhile the Warrior/Guardian while being a tad behind is sitting on a 1/2 full resource pool. This is why I said in my last post that OVER TIME the Warrior/Guardian will pull ahead. Even if the Sin/Shadow played it conservative by tossing in discharges (or whatever the Jedi equivalent is) in replacement of Whirling Blows, he would still end up losing out.
It is also why I said that if you plot out a LARGER rotational period (such as 30 seconds, 60 seconds or even a couple minutes) you start to see a much more realistic picture of what's going on. In extremely short fights or coordinated bursts, yes, the Sin/Shadow will be on top. Over a battle of attrition the Warrior/Guardian wins out.
And in Hard/NMM/Ops it's the OVER TIME value which wins the day. There are no "quick pulls" like people are accustomed to encountering in pre 50 flashpoints. This is why you see so many Sins/Shadows complaining on the forums. Because they've just hit 50+ content and are trying to tank it like it's pre 50 content.
That's not going to work.
- (Smash Base 1.35*( Decimate .3 + Heavy Handed .15))*1.5 Stance Modifier= 2.94
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People are seriously over complicating this...
This is really easy to test.
Just take off your weapon. Unarmed damage is still kinetic damage and thus subject to the same accuracy rules as everything else. You eliminate the variant weapon damage since unarmed has a variant of only 3-4 damage.
If you use accuracy augments it makes it even easier to test. It is expensive but easy to do. Just run into BT normal and start pounding on a boss or one of the elite robots. This really isn't that hard to do and if it's true you'll know right away if there is an effect.
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As somebody who mains a shield spec Vanguard, I'm curious: What would the benefit be of being able to truly play a ranged tank?
Cool factor.
Fun Fact:
Han Solo was tanking while his group jumped down a garbage chute.
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eh i've been told that it's been theorised that because its only level 49, you've a much higher chance of being crit against level 50 bosses, than you would in level 50 gear...
The people who theorized that need to be slapped in the face. Item level has zero effect on crit%. It's nothing more than anecdotal observations that aren't supported by in game data mining.
To answer the OP:
You need to invest in what you believe is a better net gain for your particular situation. I, personally, bypassed the earpiece because I netted better stats from a mastercraft earpiece which I purchased off the market. If you have the money, maybe you can go that route and use your commendation investment for armorings?
I can't answer that for you. Only you can answer that. Whatever you decide will be the right choice. You won't be gimping yourself no matter what you decide.
who do YOU guard?
in Combat Styles
Posted · Edited by Gankstah
They were bouncing it between each other as the DPS and I attained aggro. The Guardian kept his Guard on the VG. The VG would only guard the Sent when he pulled aggro. The Guardian would hot swap his guard to me when I pulled aggro and then the VG would pop his Guard onto the guardian.
In short, they were only using guard on the person who would pick up aggro. Why? Because of the 5% damage reduction. I tried to explain why this was not working and all I got was, "We know what we're doing." Really? Is that why DN-314 was shooting me in the face nearly the entire fight? Ok, just checking.
As a side note,
I realize that I didn't exactly state WHY you're supposed to use Melee>Ranged DPS>Heals as your guard priority.
In short, keep your ranged at range and guard on your Melee DPS and make sure your group knows to throttle back if you get CC'd and you shouldn't have aggro issues.