Gankstah
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Posts posted by Gankstah
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I'll save the viewers time.
- He had a person that actually heals. Whether or not it was a pocket healer, I didn't catch it. Just probably a team mate who actually heals.
- He didn't face any 50's until about 3 minutes in. Oddly enough, this is when he started getting his *** handed to him. Weird how that works huh?
- He killed exactly 4 people up to the 6 minute mark. He finally killed a 50 but it was a commando who, for whatever reason, only spammed his auto attack for 25 seconds straight. Engaged at 5:40, killed at 6:05.
That's about where I shut it off. Just like that above poster said, that music is atrocious. I'm glad you're having fun dude. Really, I am. But my PT Pyro puts your, and my, Juggernaut to shame. You're not bringing anything to the table that a DPS spec'd Jugg can't do in spades.
Immortal is gimped for PvP.
- He had a person that actually heals. Whether or not it was a pocket healer, I didn't catch it. Just probably a team mate who actually heals.
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I currently have
health 15400
str 1118
end 1311
def rating 592 (26.54%)
shield raiting 363 (42.38%)
shield absorb 98 (29.87%)
I currently have 15k health
44% DR
22% Defense
43% Shield
45% Absorb
99% Accuracy
To me, 22% is the magic number. With Slam+Retaliation Defense jumps to 33%. Meaning 1/3 of attacks are defended. I then started investing in Shield/Absorption.
I'm not wearing a single piece of purple end game PvE gear. I'm also not wearing a single piece of PvP gear. All Orange gear with the exception of 2 purple crit crafted 49 items (wrist and waist). I have purple crit crafted shield gen, implants and ear. I have the YYY datacron relic and the 50 warlord relic.
Oddly enough, my secondary stats are better than geared columi/pvp welfare epic tanks. However they trump me on health (by about 2-3k) and strength by about 50-100 points. All depending on what pieces they have in what combination. It's important to note that the only "blue" mods I'm sporting are my Mod slots. And that's because CyberTech's can't make crap for tanking Mods. So I'm grinding PvP so I can just gut whatever pieces I get for the Mods they yield.
Once that's done I'm pretty sure I'll come very near the "geared" PvE tanks health wise and be pretty far ahead of them secondary stat wise.
I tank heroics all the time with no issues. Well, used to. Had to stop because the Defense/GCD issue is causing my hands to hurt even for short periods of gaming. Admittedly I haven't touched any nightmares. But I would imagine I wouldn't have any issues.
Augments make a HUGE difference. Getting that mastercraft gear is definitely worth the money/time invested.
PvP I get completely massacred though. All those defensive stats do absolutely jack in PvP.
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I deliver a whole planet, the planet of Corellia to the Empire and my reward is a losy pair of boots....come on.
My favorite quest, bar none, is...
...a quest on Dromund Kaas. There's a scientist who is captive in that compound in the south west. She wants you to steal some schematics for new cybernetic limbs. She says, I kid you not, at least 3 or 4 times that, "WE'RE GONNA BE RICH!" and "CREDITS WILL RAIN DOWN UPON US!".
Well, during the mission you're given a morality choice. You can either give her false data or give her the real data. If you give her the real data, again, she goes into a shpeel about how rich we're gonna be. I mean, they really lay it on thick.
The next day you get an email with "your cut".
200 credits.
I seriously couldn't stop laughing.
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To be honest, I'm a bit disappointed in this.
People say, "It's a new MMO and it takes time" or something along those lines but what they don't realize, or are simply turning a blind eye to, is that a lot of this stuff is pretty standard fare for new MMO's to launch with now-a-days. I mean, 3 months after launch guilds will see a guild bank?
Really?
REALLY?!? I honestly can't remember the last MMO I played that didn't launch with that simple feature implemented. But for some reason, that's like a huge undertaking for TOR? I simply don't understand that. Don't get me wrong, I honestly wish I could understand that... but I don't. I think it's because I can't think of an MMO out there that doesn't have a guild bank.
I mean, that seems like something that really should have been developed over a year ago. Seriously. 3 months to put in a guild bank?!? A GUILD BANK? Actually, longer than that. Because they promised us a Guild bank a month before launch. Stating that it was, and I quote, "at the top of our priority list". If that's the rate of their workmanship, no wonder they have people already tasked for content ETA'd for 13 months out.
They're gonna need that much time just to get the loot tables right.
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I think it's time. If the servers can hold the amount of numbers I've been hearing, there is no reason for empty servers.
But I think it just might be Republic that's having big issues. I made a Trooper alt earlier today and there was 30 people on Ord Mantel, when I hit 10 and went to the space station there was 60. Logged on to my Marauder and there was 95 people in Taris and when I went to my space station there was almost 200.
Take some servers with a higher Republic population and add them into ones with a very small Republic population. As long as they stay away from adding to the highest population servers it will be a good move.
I'm on Anchorhead and see the same thing.
At any given time there are two instances in Imperial Fleet. One orange (heavily populated) and one with 130+ people in it. I swap over to Republic and only one instance with maybe 100+ people in it. And the difference between the two AH's is astronomical. Imperial economy is leaps and bounds ahead of the Republic economy.
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Not sure what server you're on but that one I am on i see between 50-125ppl on the planets I play on.
I find this a little strange as well to be honest. According to BioWare there are "100's of servers". Let's assume there are 200 servers. I don't actually know, because I honestly never bothered counting, but let's pretend there are exactly 200 servers.
1,000,000 people divided by 200 servers = 5,000 people per server.
That's assuming exactly 1,000,000 active subs and an exactly dispersed population. Me thinks that BioWare has made way too many damn servers. I rarely see people out and about. Which would be normal, if I was playing WoW. But this is a brand new MMO. I should see people all over the low to mid game areas. I'm not.
I think instancing and the massive disparity of population control that BioWare has instituted is exacerbating the "online single player" feeling that SWTOR is giving many players. Their fear of overcrowded laggy launch servers prompted a knee jerk reaction to over compensate and now people feel isolated instead of immersed in a community.
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Agree or disagree. It matters not.
Then you wouldn't have posted.
You want to encourage people to agree with you and discourage people who would disagree with you. Or, more likely, incite those that may disagree with you through this passive aggressive closing. Either way, it does matter... to you.
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People have been given 1 week suspensions for this exploit and have had all credits removed from their characters.
This is basically Bioware's final warning to said individuals, any other problems they cause = perma-ban.
Dumb exploiters.
I'm not saying exploiting is dumb, I'm saying THOSE exploiters were dumb. You know how easy it is to filter duped money through the AH? All you need is a separate account, which of course will be banned, and an off site location to game so they can't IP trace it back to you. You won't have as much as you would with the actual duping account but you'll still end up with enough duped cash that you won't have to worry about money for awhile.
Dumb, greedy little exploiters.
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Anyone? thoughts tips?
Rolling a Tank and throwing him in PvP is the ultimate test of futility and patience a person can endure in this game.
If you plan on PvP'ing, Tank is not the way to go. If you're going to tank, stick to PvE for the time being. Until they address the mitigation bypasses that are rampant in PvP there's no point in rolling Immortal. You basically have the survival of a DPS just without the DPS.
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The 6% strength increase would be a fairly substantial threat increase over the course of a boss fight.
No... it's not.
I want you to find whoever told you this and ridicule them mercilessly until they cry. And trust me, after reading the following, you will enjoy the experience.
Let's pretend for a moment that you have 2,000 strength. You will NEVER have that much but let's just pretend. Your damage bonus from 2,000 strength is 400 (2000*.2=400). With a 6% increase your strength jumps up to 2120 for a damage bonus of 424 (2120*.2=424). So you've just rendered a net gain of 24 points of extra damage for 2 talent points.
To put that into perspective, since we're already pretending, let's also pretend that we are solo'ing a world boss. Let's also pretend that world boss has 1,000,000 HP. Since we're in lala land let's also imagine up us a companion that doesn't get fear locked by World Bosses and has insane-o healing that allows us to never die.
And finally, since we're way past the realm of reality at this point, let's imagine us up a 2,000 sustained DPS (<<--- Lulz) and 100% armor penetration.
With the above factors we can conclude that it will take exactly 500 GCD's (1mil/2,000=500) to kill that boss. Assuming of course you never miss, never run out of rage, never get stunned, never get knocked back, knocked down and manage to miraculously never miss a single GCD (you have freaky durable hands). Thanks to your 6% 2 point talent investment you will save yourself exactly 6 cooldowns.
Six.
Out of 500.
For 2 talent points you just saved yourself 1 1/2 minutes out of over 2 hours of finger ****-ing your keyboard.
I trust I don't have to outline how absurdly insignificant that is.
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SW VO > All other VO
I couldn't even play a male SI after playing the male SW. Such a wimpy voice. And the male Operative.... zomg... I rerolled female immediately. The only other Male VO I've been able to stomach is the Smuggler, he's absolutely hilarious, and the BH.
The BH is too forced. They wanted him to be too much like Clint Eastwood gritty sounding and you can tell. It makes it laughable to watch the cut scenes. But I can at least stomach it compared to the Op and SI male voices.
Those are just horrible.
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Playing a full Darkness Champion fitted Assassin i still get hit after hit from sorcs for 2.5k+ damage meaning the darkness tree gives me NOTHING for survivability in pvp!
^ This
Investing heavily into the Tanking tree and expecting to perform in a warzone is laughable. When 1/2 of your invested points (and a huge chunk of your gear) serve no function in PvP... then something is wrong. Combine that alongside promises from BioWare pre launch that Tanks would be viable in PvP and you get a flood of anger from Tanks.
We were told that our role would be to guard and hold points. Right now, Guard is a death sentence. If I don't have the mitigation to shave off some of that extra damage that I'm taking in then I'm dead within seconds. The only functions we serve, I say this from a Immortal Jugg perspective, are:
1.) If you invest points into it you can spam snare.
2.) Make the ball carrier or ourselves immortal for 10 seconds every 3 minutes.
3.) AoE taunt.
That's pretty much it.
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I have a Gunslinger.
I have to say, it's a lot of fun getting gang ****d every time I setup. No, really, it's loads of fun.
I think if they streamlined the way the cover system works in PvP you'd see more people playing those roles. As is, I would wager that a good portion of people you're encountering that are PvP'ing regularly who have rerolled have done so because they were roles that used the cover system.
Tactics is a skill tree that is just made for PvP. Everything about it exudes PvP from it's very pores. So it's no surprise you see a lot of troopers and their BH counterparts in PvP. And as far as Sins/Shadows... well let's see. You get stealth, shield generators, an AoE KB, a Pull, AoE taunt, Guard, a modicum of self healing... you would have to actually go out of your way to make a bad spec with Sins/Shadows.
They are the PvP class of choice. Plus they get double bladed lightsabers for a double dose of pimpin.
The only thing that surprises me is that only 1/2 of the PvP population consists of Sins/Shadows and not 90%.
You absolutely right because once I enter a war zone with my Sith Juggernaut the game morphs into a commando.Mine morphs me into a Tombstone. I heard this goes away if I respec out of Immortal. Immortal... lulz. But I refuse to do so.
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You really should add a stipulation in the "mean mitigation" section about accuracy/damage debuffs. With debuffs, Assassins and Juggs swap places.
There are two addendums in the Primer which stipulate that not all bonuses are applied. They are:
- Many abilities (particularly high CD abilities) are not factored in for a reason. There's a lot that goes into making a tanking class and DR/Shield/Avoidance is just one part.
- These are situational modifiers from abilities that directly affect DR. I mention these separately because the effects are longer than the CD so they can be applied constantly but are situational as not ALL targets on the board will be under their influence at ALL times.
Furthermore the reader is encouraged to add or remove bonuses as they see fit to simulate different situations and/or encounters. I am not here to account for all possible situations and/or outcomes TOR may provide. I am not here to do the work FOR the reader. This isn't my job. I don't get paid for this. Nor am I required to cater to the whims of every poster who feels he or she is entitled to have her chosen archetype shown in a greater light. However situational that light may be.
I'm not saying you are doing so but we have had several other posters come in here and act as such. I am here solely for the purpose of providing the means by which the reader may do the work for his or her SELF.
If the reader chooses not to, that is not my fault. That is the reader's. Let's say I humor the posed request, and by the way several other posters have requested this as well so you are not alone, I would have to humor the BH's who have likewise requested to break down the math to illustrate how the Sin's Mean Mitigation drops while tanking mobs over a count of 2 thanks to Dark Ward's inferior handling of multiple mobs. Then I would have Sin's coming in here and bemoaning me for doing that as well.
This t.i.t. for tat mentality is exactly what I try to avoid.
While I understand and appreciate the enthusiasm forumites have for their preferred Tanking classes, the Primer is not a battle ground for enthusiasts to come in and wage war over who is the better Tank in what situation. Nor will I be goaded into painting one archetype in a better light than another. Because my words will be used as gospel from on high to "prove" someone's point in another thread. This has happened before and I'm not putting myself into that situation again.
Finally, I have stated before and I will state again that the Primer is not, nor shall it ever be, all encompassing. It is strictly a means to educate and promote the understanding of theory and game mechanics. That is all. There are a multitude of resources both on the official forums and on the web which go into very intricate detail the varying circumstances and mitigation differences between Tanking archetypes.
There's a reason it's called "Tanking: A Primer" and not "Tanking: A Guide".
I want to stress that I'm not angry at you or your request. I'm really not. I'm mostly typing this out so I can link this post the next time this or similar questions/requests are posed. There are a great many PM's I receive and posts that have been removed because of this exact situation. This is mostly for my benefit.
- Many abilities (particularly high CD abilities) are not factored in for a reason. There's a lot that goes into making a tanking class and DR/Shield/Avoidance is just one part.
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I've got a problem with the given data. I've been crunching the numbers, and I've come to a weird conclusion.
Not counting seperate benefits from skills or talents and just using the provided formulae, it seems Defence trumps any of the stats no matter what the rating is.
The most beneficial allocation of stat points seems to be to put everything in defence, despite diminishing returns.
Yes and no. You have to bear in mind that Mean Mitigation is average mitigation. Some fights your mitigation will be higher. Some lower. There are several threads outside of the Primer and sites that can be found on the web going over "the best mitigation" combination. Typically they range in the neighborhood of 350-450 Defense, 300-350 Shield and 250-350 Absorption and they all defend their opinions quite adamantly.
To put it into perspective, would you rather invest 100 points to gain 1% defense or 100 points to gain 40% Absorption? Of course you would want to invest in Absorption. The idea is that even though Defense yields a higher Mean Mitigation it also yields a higher "spikey" mitigation pattern. In order to level that pattern out yet keep a high Mean Mitigation we sacrifice Defense to invest into Shield/Absorption. To help keep those "spikey" moments to a minimum while maintaining a good Defense%.
At what point you decide that enough is a enough is entirely up to you. I would never recommend that a person invest solely in Defense. And to be honest, that's not even a possibility anyway given how mods function in TOR. Ultimately what you decide to do will be the right answer. We're dealing with Mean Mitigation differences in the neighborhood of 1-3% which, to be honest. really isn't that big of a deal.
BioWare doesn't design their content with extreme min/maxers in mind. So long as you're in the neighborhood of your peers in hard/nightmare content you won't have any harder a time soaking damage than anyone else. Do what you do and don't sweat the small stuff.
Leave the min/maxing debates to those that are prone to those discussions and enjoy the game as you would enjoy it. You won't be locked out of content because you decided to allocate 50 points into Shield instead of Absorb. And if you are, why would you want to roll with that kind of crowd anyway? It's their loss. Not yours.
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I've updated the Primer.
- The Mean Mitigation section has been cleaned up and the calc's simplified thanks to Tanis.
- The Mods 4 Tanks section has been updated and cleaned up.
- More refferences were inserted and format changed a little.
- The Mean Mitigation section has been cleaned up and the calc's simplified thanks to Tanis.
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I'm an older player and have never really been a true tank but I would like to try it. Unfortunately I have no idea what all this means, so I guess I'll just jump in and see how it goes.
Great post though!
Any questions you have about the content provided, feel free to ask. That's what we're here for.
Do you need to know any of this to play a tank? No. Could understanding the content help you in your quest? Yes. The information is intended to give players an idea of what's going on in the background of the game. But it is, by no stretch of the imagination, required to understand in order for you to play TOR.
Admittedly I've completely abandoned my Tanks in TOR. Until BioWare resolves the Defense GCD issue and the mitigation bypass issues Tanks have in PvP I will not be playing any of my Tanks. There's no point. I genuinely believe that I'm coming down with carpel tunnel because of the state of Tanks ATM. My hands and forearms actually hurt after playing for any period of time.
I need to take a break.
Despite my extremely jaded disposition I will endeavor to keep this thread up to date and attempt to answer questions to the best of my knowledge. For now, I'm going to take a break. I'll be checking in from time to time.
Any questions, concerns or updates should be sent to me through PM in order to get a prompt reply.
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Enhancements are by far our "beefiest" mods in terms of secondary stats.
He should be using his Enhancements and Augments to fill up any holes he has in his gear once he starts getting fleshed out later on. There is no right or wrong answer. It all depends on what Mods he's sporting when he starts getting geared up.
Telling you that he should be stocking up on Sturdiness 22 for absorption does you no good if he already has a full deck of Absorption Mods already. If you get my drift.
To clarify "mods" lower case refers to all slots in modifiable gear. "Mods" capitalized refers to the actual mod slot labelled "Mod". I really wish they would change that name so we could deal with less confusion around here.
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If anything, try making a video on YouTube. Some people just can't read.
6 minute video of how neither Shield nor Defense affects yellow damage attacks. Only white. Here's the thread I originally posted.
With a 40%+ chance to shield and a 22%+ unbuffed chance to defend it's nigh mathematically impossible to have a string of attacks that long without any defense/shield. To put it in perspective, I have a better chance of being struck by lightning WHILE winning the lottery.
I had my buddy switch to "white damage" 1/2 way through the video to show that only white damage is being subjected to either Shield or Defense.
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Based on tests using duels with other players, Taugrim has concluded that only weapon attacks can be shielded. (http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/)
Assuming this restriction holds true for PvE content, would you consider the effective contribution of shield chance and absorption to overall mitigation to be lower than your original formulas indicate?
I'm well aware of this situation. I recorded a few videos last night and sent links to BioWare illustrating this problem. However, I try to keep sensationalism out of this thread.
But believe me, BELIEVE ME, once I discovered this I was extremely perturbed. I find myself spending an absolute fortune on respec'ing costs. Being forced to swap between Immortal spec for PvE'ing and back to Rage when I want to PvP.
It's gotten so bad that I've had to roll another Jugg. One for PvP and one for PvE. My gripes with the defense issues tank spec's have with PvP has seriously jaded me towards this class and this game. I hoping that BioWare addresses it quickly. Because this is just completely unsatisfactory.
Investing 25+ points into a tree in order to efficiently soak damage only to have 90% of attacks BYPASS that damage soaking is completely unacceptable. With the current incarnation of the game Immortal is utterly useless in PvP. All forms of mitigation are bypassed.
Combine this with the fact that Deflecting/Parrying interrupts the GCD and you have one very unhappy Gankstah on your hands.
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So, per Erickson, we're not allowed to play most alien species because we, as humans, cannot relate to these "freaks". Wookiee's, Rodians, Ithorians etc. etc. The same reason we cannot play say... a Gundark for instance.
So, we're allowed to harvest from these certain alien species and wildlife because we cannot, as humans, "relate" and as such it's a dehumanizing effort. We're not allowed to harvest from a human for example because that triggers a psychological effect (in those of us who are sane) telling us that this is wrong. We're not supposed to do that.
With me so far?
Well if, again per Erickson, we cannot relate to these "freaks" (his word not mine) and they are dehumanized assets then why can't I harvest them?
If I blow a wookiee's head off why can't I harvest his body for copious amounts of Green Goo? If I stab a rodian in the throat or burn a jawa and his family alive... why can't I harvest them for Red Goo? They aren't human. I can't relate to them, per DE, so there is no psychological trigger there telling me it's wrong.
They're not "humanesque" enough for me to relate to on a social level but they're "humanesque" enough for me to be psychologically or morally averse to harvesting for parts?
Something doesn't seem right with this line of reasoning. At least to me.
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I don't think a lot of people in this thread are getting the point.
The point is that Soresu provides the same mitigation benefits as other tank stances with the addendum that it reduces resource gain. No other tank stance does this. So the complaint is that other DPS versions of tanks have the OPTION to use their tank stance and not suffer resource loss without having to invest in their tanking tree. The Juggernaut does not have that luxury.
That's the point.
Whether I agree or not is irrelevant but it's frustrating reading through this thread to see how many people just aren't paying attention to the OP and his concerns.
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I'm not exactly sure what it is you mean.
The crit theory section simply makes a probability check. What are the odds of both being hit and crit. Roll 1 * Roll 2. Since in TOR, unlike other MMO's, it's impossible to actually achieve crit immunity the only thing we can do is figure the probability and attempt to get that value as low (or high depending on your point of view) as possible.
Since crit trumps shield the only actual stat which affects this probability check that a Tank has influence over is avoidance (i.e. defense).
As far as how this has bearing on Balthazaar's calc, I think that discussion is best taken up with him since he would be the best person to discuss his frame of mind when coming up with that calc.
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Of course, a major issue effecting the math is whether shield absorption is additive with armor reduction or multiplicative. If you have 40% armor and 20% absorb, and get hit by a 1000 damage attack, does a successful shield block 200 extra damage, or 120 extra damage (1000*0.6*0.8)?
Multiplicative. Absorption first then DR. Your net damage will be 480.
PvP Tanking Spec help
in Guardian / Juggernaut
Posted · Edited by Gankstah
Popping Saber Ward and Immortal once every 3 minutes for 10 seconds of tanking != "insane surviability". Your survival is exactly the same as anyone else in PvP since your defense stats do absolutely jack **** against anyone but another tank. This is a fact. A proven immutable fact. Nearly all attack bypass mitigation. Period. End of story.
I wanna see this video of you "tanking 5 people at once" without having to pop all of your cooldowns.
You can't because it doesn't happen.
This is why stuff doesn't get fixed or addressed. Because people who don't know what they're talking about start attesting to a broken/imbalanced mechanic and say "it's fine". Immortal is not fine in PvP. 1/2 of your talents don't even serve a function in PvP.
@OP
Stick with Vengeance/Rage. Same mitigation, a metric ton more DPS.