it was 2 million sold partner. 1.7 million subs? that was as of December 31st 300 k people spit this game out in 11 days. you want some more current info or some blind fanboism finger crossing? here is a dosage of truth for the masses http://www.videogamer.com/pc/star_wars_the_old_republic/news/ea_stock_drops_3_after_star_wars_the_old_republic_doubts.html

this is not a good sign either http://www.videogamer.com/pc/star_wars_the_old_republic/news/ea_stock_drops_3_after_star_wars_the_old_republic_doubts.html

Here ya go Baron. http://www.videogamer.com/pc/star_wars_the_old_republic/news/ea_stock_drops_3_after_star_wars_the_old_republic_doubts.html Personaly i want TOR to do well and grow but they went to safe to stream lined and to thin. TOR is closer to a single player game with co op play and the fleet serving as a lobby. the game has its bright moments but never game me a sense of adventure and awe that Games like EQ 1 and 2, AOC , and Rift. AOC was a very buggy poorly optimized game but it was a true MMO. My only hope is that other Devolpers will not try to focus all their dev dollars on gimicks and put the money into endepth mechanics and rich game worlds.

I was laughed at by several community members when i said that SWTOR would have a 60 percent burn off in the 90 day window Zrking and several others just kept lambasting me with some conference call from launch qrtr saying they had 1.7 million active subs as of december 31st. I personaly thought that was horrible sign if they sold 2 million and 300k spit the game out and canceled before they even had to pay was not good. all MMO's typicaly have a 20 to 30 percent burn if in 90 days. AOC was the worst with 800k in sales and only had 400 k subs 60 days in . to the best retention which was rift that sold 1 million and retained about 800k between the 60 and 90 day mark. I know WOW retained the average but grew massively its first year. TOR will be successful it made its money on IP and bioware reputation. EA is just evil to destroy 2 good things with 1 game.

No I will not purchase ME3 if anything TOR affected that decsion negativly. I wont be plopping down 60 dollars for another dumbed down corperate fed EA game with a BW label slapped on it. ME 2 though had some fun it completey went the other direction from ME 1 and was watered dwon and called stream lined. i found nothing enjoyable about the weapon system or CHR devolpment.

Ice you have been a vocal community member since we first started getting info on game mechanics. you and i both voiced loudly our concerns with their design concepts. I was very concerned the game would feel very hybrid due to its heavy focus on single player content. TOR has had the largest burn off of any MMO since AOC with in its frst 90 days. the only thing that will save this game is retention on 2 million in sales at 40% is still 800 k subs roughly. pretty bad in the MMO market though it is no where near what it should be for a game that cost 100 million plus and a massive IP

the raid content is so damn simple in this game we dont even need parser's or Advanced combat tracker. every single fight is ok we have 6 minutes to kill it dump on it now LOS now dump now los. its pretty sad.

that will not happen with a EA game anyone with talent , skill and expierence went to companies like trion . seriously they got the lion shares of the talent pool 5 years ago when Scott hartsmen recruited for that company. the MMO devolper pool is not that big believe it or not.

you dont need combat logs for this content . its so damn easy with only 4 actual roles that mirror each other across 16 classes its pretty ridiculous. everyone mash before b4 enrage timer its not really rotation based.

Too bad the story lines are only about 10 percent of your lvling play time. i wont be playing the bioware alt end game . no thank you. what they said from day 1 is that rerolling was a part of the endgame not the total end game right now there is about 5 hours per week of content for a end game pve player .

There are several things wrong with BW GCD . The combat mechanics are very bad when you break it down at end game. a raid wide cooldown on combat res instead of it being player assigned. Combat animations taking longer then abilites to finish and not being able to stop them once it starts. In the end analysis the game is very poorly designed and though out. It sounds harsh but after playing since beta build 2 , its the only conclusion i can come too. from engine to concept it was built in a way it feels like a snap together model nothings flows together.

They are not going to put them back in. Bioware has proved themselves absloute rookies in the MMO genre on every level. the game had huge potetial, they needed strog Dev team leaders that had years of expierence in this genre.

Are you trolling?

Ive a monster system. 990X OC 4.2 liquid cooled 590 gtx 3.0 gig dual GPU 8 gigs ram win 7 x64 I can stand on the fleet with 40 people doing nothing but standing there and have 20 to 30 FPS at best. this game renders absloutley horrible from fauna to PC's its absloutley horrible. It is the reason why they did not put High res textures back in the game from beta . PVP battles are a absloute stutter fest and the people claiming they get high FPS probably have every single grpahical feature turned off including name plates . AOC devolped in 2008 with high res textures full DX10 features can handle massive pvp seiges with destructible enviroments and full spell effects in the high 60's on this rig. its not an issue of hardware its an issue of coding and optimizing. you will never get an offical word from Bioware on this they already tried to lie about the high res pacs they will never address FPS issues openly in the forums.

Because its not a true MMO. Ive played all the games you described . Even AOC for all its flaws launched with the a true MMO expierence. the guild system was light years above even some of the most matured MMO's. even its disjointed and instanced feel did not detractfrom it feeling like a massive adventure. It at least had soul and felt like a true MMO. TOR is not a bad game by any means and my main gripes are not about more end game content . Its about not having MMO content it is a single player game through lvl 50 . then it lobbies you off. So many thing worng with the game and the integrity of this Dev team with issues like high res pacs , FPS issues and the general design concept has convinced me TOR is not for me. Ill continue to post on the forums until my 90 day sub runs out.

you hit the nail on the head . Dr Ray was at a devolper round table with guys from Zinga, Funcom and a few other MMO game devolpers. He specificaly said their goal was to introduce millions of players to MMO's in a way that was understanable and easy for them to play. he also stated that this new market was the future of MMO's and that scared me.from what i see he introduced a few hundred thousand players to MMO's and most of the population just came form other more indepth game worlds. If corporate america thinks that the MMO population is going to tolerate dumbed down easy access MMO's for a long term game they are pretty jaded.Not saying TOR is a bad game its just not a MMO. 75 % of the TOR gaming community or more have multiple MMO's under their belt. Be a casual or a hardcore this main bulk of population is not gonna stay in a game that focus's on a single player expierence all the way to 50 then turns into a lobby game espically with the zones designed a massive Guantlet board. Because that is exactly what TOR is in the end anaylsis. It's a lobby game the fleet coud be a damn chat room for all the good it is . horrible FPS , no chat bubles no actual social interaction other then general channel. its a horrible social hub.

I am a casual i work 50 plus hours a week have 3 children. I am maxed lvl have full set of columi and maxed crafting twice. End game seriously lacks. It s not because raiding is too easy though it is very accessible for us . its because there is little reason to do it. food stamp itemization (set gear token is a joke), no sense of uniqueness or even goals to strive for.the content just lacks period. No guild lvls, no guild perks,no class alternate advancement to make your cookie cutter have at least a little variation from the other guy.The game just feels bland, Epic long quests for class specfic items. A whole lot is missing from this game in terms of MMO features. the whole game promotes a single player expierence all the way through to lvl 50. then it lobbies you off into the fleet for 4 , 8 , 16 man instances. TOR should be listening to those hard core players they know MMO mechanics and features better then devolpers. Hardcore is the heart beat of the any MMO's longevity.Hopefully they can doudle the size of endgame features by the 6 month mark.I predict TOR will have the largest Burn off of any MMO released( thats does not mean it wont be successful ,even if it only retains 40 percent in 90 days it will have 750k subs which is highly profitable.)1.2 will help its retention ive already unsubbed but if guild says the legacy system holds promise ill sub for another month . but currently the game is pretty archaic.

I would wait till the 90 day mark for that declaring that. i believe population theories are in correct . that the majority of casual players are MMO vets. and veteran players can become fastly disenchanted with SWTOR. Im seeing it with my largely working class casual guild that. All say the same thing it lacks alot of true MMO features, the leveling process was very linear and actually works against rerolling on the same faction. I have always felt the Hardcore is the heart beat of a MMO's longevity. If they stop loggining in and find the contetnt dull and easy with in the first 3 weeks as most true hardcores did in SWTOR. then the game has some content issues that the rest will expierence with in the first 90 days. As it stands even 1.2 is pretty superficial as far as a content patch, a new flash point and legacy system is good but TOR seriously need guild lvls and quests to build community involvment. currently TOR feel like a Lobby game at the end game and for a large part of the leveling process.Things that would help is remove the fleet station completely it is a horrible excuse for a social hub. Put all the content access on th major cities, and remove the faction restrictions so we can travel to the other planets . It would remove some of the ultra linear feel TOR has .

Ehhmm he is talking about hardmoe FP's . you should be in mostly columi to do HMfp's if they are doing it in oranges with daily mods he is correct their is a design flaw.

We are Playing WoM World of Mime craft. thats the only thing i think of when i walk by NPC's if they had hats on the ground in front of them i would throw credits in them.

Well true enough that the pack mules are not mythic but every game mechanic lead was a mythic guy that worked on war hammer aside from james ohlen . dallas dickenson was from SWG i think. beleive me this game was EA managed and the only crew they had was from Mythic that knew anything about MMO devolping, edmenton does not know anything about devolping this genre.

It is absloutely as you say. corperate interests have made this genre utter garbage.

But you already can you can go to any zone sit back relax and not be disturbed by anyone. completely peacfull and quiet like a monastery.

I would also like to point out that this is only part of the problem. The major issue is bioware has veered away from the games that built their reputation. games like baldurs gate NWN , Kotor, ME 1. those game had indepth chr devolpment and itemization. Biowares games are extremely watered down from what the once were. it shows a lack of interest in making games for the PC gamer. they are more concerned with making games that are cross platform and easily produced and devolped. The textures suck , MMO's from 6 years ago have better graphic fidelity and perform better. Bioware had and still has a great opportunity to make a great MMO. currently its a good single player game with bad textures and some great Co op features. And personally i did not play wow because it had a art style and graphics that i personally did not like. I played EQ2 which had a much better graphics and complex game design.not saying SWTOR is a bad game, but its far from what a game that had 6 and half years of devolpment over 100 million in devolpment ( i dont buy 300 million if it did some one should be investigated for embezlement) and from BW boasting the brightest minds in the genre. trying to insinuate the people who do not like the textures are to stupid to see how wonderful they are and the only reason we think they are bad is because someone said they are is a ridiculous arguement.

Well to answer your question in a round a bout way. ill make 4 points. 1). bioware them selves told several fan sites that they had high res textures in game. 2). I was in beta from the first build they released to closed testing. about build 2 or 3 i cannot rememberexactly, they patched in high res textures for us. there was a massive difference in visual fidelity it looked like what they marketed with screen shots. 6 hours later they took servers down and removed them and posted they would be returning for launch. 3). when they had open beta it was one of the top five concerns people had with the product was the visual fidelity of the res pacs. the devolpment team went silent and many of us beta testers reassured the community they were there .we had seen them and bioware had stated they would be in at launch. 4). two weeks after launch biowares community manager tried to tell us that there were never any high res textures and that medium was actually high and that the high option in the interface was a bug LOL!!!!. In all honesty If bioware would have come right out and said Prior to launch " our game engine is having trouble rendering high resolution textures we are not going to implement them and may never be able to" i would have accepted that .it may have played a part in my decision to purchase the game. I most likely would have broken down and bought it reguardles. But there is a severe pattern here with Bioware now days of double speak and marketing techniques that are very shoddy. No one here remembers the Early access debacle? and pre orders? for the record i got in on first day but the whole thing reaked of misrepresenting the truth.