Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[Xelosu]

Reading this I got the impression some people don't understand what a game is, and this is what SW:TOR is, a GAME.

 

People buy games and play them to have FUN not to socialize. If you wan't to socialize and chat a lot, you go to one of zylions chat websites, where you can find thousands of others like you willing to talk about miscellaneous topics. And guess what you can get there for free.

Or even better, if you want to socialize, go out to a pub or a disco.

 

I agree, that socialization in games is a nice bonus. I play MMO's mainly because there are other people in it. If I didn't like that I would play offline games.

But just because I like other people in my game, it does not mean that I like to be forced to read chat spam, just because I want to run certain flash point.

 

LFG channel would help a little, but I am more then certain people would abuse it and spam it anyway. Mainly cause chat moderation in mmos is non existent.

 

Some "old school" player said that community building is not as it used to be. Granted, but I would also like to point out, that in older games there was no such thing as "global chat". In my opinion the down fall of in game community is direct effect of introducing general chat in games.

Mechanics is quite simple, general chat is often spammed. After few hours or days putting every single spammer on blacklist new players just give up, and wanting to get "peace and quiet" just turn general chat off and never turn it back.

The legendary "Barrens chat" is golden example of this. This is not fault of any LFG tool.

Second thing, people are not as polite as they used to be. How many spammers would you see in games 10y ago? People using vulgar language, throwing adjectives at each other, making racist comments..

Excuse me but I simply don't want to socialize with people like that.

 

I admit if this game had LFG tool my general chat would be turned off. But not because I am lazy, I am just fallowing the advice of all the chat spammers: "If you don't want to read chat, turn it off".

 

I am not saying "no" to the whole idea of socialization using game chat. But if BioWare thinks we need to socialize, then they have to start actively moderate chat and enforce rules and code of conduct.

I was wondering, is it so hard to present spammers with some kind of chat bans?

Even temporary ones. People behave badly, because they know they will never get punishment...

How about installing a robo that will auto chat ban anyone who gets 15+ spamm reports ?

Edited January 6, 2012 by Xelosu

[Mass]

I really don't understand people who say a FP finder would make the game easier. There are two issues here: gameplay and access. How difficult the gameplay should be is debatable. Access to gameplay should always be easy and made easier when technology allows. It's like people are saying, "What, you can just enter a password to get into the game instead of call someone up and have a conversation with them first!?! How easy do you want the game to be!?!".

 

I hope we get a warzone like system for FP's. So far all the random groups on my server have been good; this way the only thing that would change is I don't have to waste time looking for those groups.

[LasherC]

I was wondering, is it so hard to present spammers with some kind of chat ban's?

Even temporary ones. People behave badly, because they know they will never get punishment...

How about installing a robo that will auto chat ban anyone who gets 15+ spamm reports ?

 

Any kind of auto-moderation will most likely be abused, and a manual one is out of the question as far as I'm concerned. I don't want bioware investing their resources in what would basically be babysitting.

dealwithit.jpg

[jihoekst]

Seeing the posts equating the release of lfd with the downfall of wows subscribers is pure speculation. Hey in the seventies the amount of tvs in american homes increased and so did car accidents. So tvs cause car accidents. Two points are not always linked and often have independent causes for each. Could it be ppl left bc they were sick of the same game.

 

I think any tool is just that, a tool. They have screwdrivers and powerdrills. One is more hands on than the other but both get the job done and no one is forcing ppl to use a powerdrill. Tools are to help those that want to use them. If you dont like it, then dont use it. But any system is better than the current.

[imtrick]

I have to say this "MMO's are supposed to be slow, inefficient, boring, and require you to socialize a certain way" thing is probably the worst argument I have ever seen. Ever.

 

That would be a really bad argument if anyone had ever made it.

[Incrediblebox]

LFD would only be acceptable if it was not cross server.

[Kurnea]

That would be a really bad argument if anyone had ever made it.

 

Yeah, you're just saying that forming a group should be slow and inefficient. Apparently the rest of the game can be spared that.

[Jwcurtis]

You don't think it's fair.

 

I think it is.

 

MMO communities were good when you were forced to do this.

 

MMO communities today are hives of scum of villainy BECAUSE of stuff like LFD tools.

 

I could care less about your enjoyment, I want a good community.

 

If people can't socialize, they have no business playing an MMO.

 

This genre was superior when it was a niche genre BECAUSE it only attracted social players.

 

Now we get everything from console kids to people without the simple skills to spell properly.

 

We gained better graphics and bigger production values, but we lost the heart of the MMO genre.

 

 

SEE! this is why we can't have nice things.

 

Too many people complaining about a feature that will do nothing but help grow a new game and ensure its playerbase expands.

 

We may get a few people leave but i would almost bet my left one that it would have more positive growth then negative.

 

My 2 cents

[zootzoot]

This isn't WOW? Really? Because you could have fooled me with the amount of jerks found here, I thought when I left WOW I would be done with people who think their way of playing is the only and most proper way and anyone else's preference is irrelevant. Just because you CAN find a group without dungeon finder, doesn't mean it's the most efficient way to do it.

 

You miss the point. The LFD tool in WOW became a necessity because of Badges. That meant running Dungeons became a daily requirement to keep up and LFD was needed for efficiency especially for players with less time.

 

TOR is more like Vanilla WOW. Running FP's is just one of many equally viable ways to spend your time.

[Xelosu]

Community this, community that..

 

I think it's an American feature to overuse adjectives and stretch the meaning of the word to absurd..

 

First of all, the absolute requirement for a group to be called a 'community' is existence of 'social cohesion' in that group.

If something as simple as buying a game or picking same server would mean you form a community, you could say that all people in the word form a community simply cause they live on the same planet..

 

As I tried to explain in my previous post some people get mmo games backwards.

While socialization is important part , mmos are primary games. Sorry to bring it to you, but main purpose of the game is not to build a community.

If you are interested in a community in game, you join a guild.

 

It's same in real life.

MMO requires interaction with other people.. but it is also true for soccer.

If you are a soccer player, you form a community with your team.

But if I came to you from my country to play a sparing match, this will not make us members of the same community.

We play same game, this is all.

 

And guess what ! When my team wants to play we are not sitting on the field waiting for someone to come. We enlist on tournament or we send an invitation for a sparing match.

Yes, we are using "the evil anti social system".

[Gehoornde]

LFD will be added. Like it, or hate it, but it WILL be added.

 

Remember where you read it first boys 'n girls

 

EDIT:

 

Community this, community that..

 

I think it's an American feature to overuse adjectives and stretch the meaning of the word to absurd..

 

First of all, the absolute requirement for a group to be called a 'community' is existence of 'social cohesion' in that group.

If something as simple as buying a game or picking same server would mean you form a community, you could say that all people in the word form a community simply cause they live on the same planet..

 

As I tried to explain in my previous post some people get mmo games backwards.

While socialization is important part , mmos are primary games. Sorry to bring it to you, but main purpose of the game is not to build a community.

If you are interested in a community in game, you join a guild.

 

It's same in real life.

MMO requires interaction with other people.. but it is also true for soccer.

If you are a soccer player, you form a community with your team.

But if I came to you from my country to play a sparing match, this will not make us members of the same community.

We play same game, this is all.

 

And guess what ! When my team wants to play we are not sitting on the field waiting for someone to come. We enlist on tournament or we send an invitation for a sparing match.

Yes, we are using "the evil anti social system".

 

This guy knows what he's talking about. NO >>>---arrow---> to the knee for you, Sir.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Gehoornde

[Zistar]

I would fully support a server only LFD tool. However, I would hate it if they implement cross-server LFD.

 

The primary method for making new friends for me has always been grouping and doing instances (and yes group quests as well). When you do an instance with people from another server you can't add anyone to your friends list.

 

I already have a long list of friends built up on my server from pvp and flashpoints. If we had cross server tools I would probably only have my guildies.

 

Before they added the LFD tool in wow, yes it was hard to find groups sometimes but I had really long list of friends outside my guild to run with (and do other things with like questing, etc.). When I left in Dec. my friends list only had people from my guild. I can't even remember the last time I made a new friend in wow on my server that wasn't in my guild.

 

I also read the long thread about people needing on stuff for their companions, etc. People's response was, "See, people are still jerks even without the LFD tool." While I agree people will still be jerks with or without a LFD tool, I think people need to also give it more time to weed out jerks. I will absolutely add jerks to my ignore list but it will take some time for these people to see that impact on their ability to get groups.

 

I can remember people having to transfer servers because they got a bad name for their behavior in dungeons. Eventually the natural selection process will have a positive effect.

 

Just my .02

[Zistar]

"People buy games and play them to have FUN not to socialize."

I stopped reading here... That's ridiculous.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Zistar

[Xelosu]

Ok so you had many people on 'friends list'.. so what?

 

What does it really mean?

This is yet another example word meaning manipulation, in this case meaning devaluation.

Let see, If I were to change the name from 'friends list' to "presidents list" would you claim you've met so many presidents in the game? Cause now you imply that you had so many 'friends' before and after LFG system you had none.

 

You say those names disappear when LFG system was implemented.

So what this really means?

Cause for me it is obvious that the only reason they were there (on the 'friend list') was removed. They were on your friend list only to have easy access to someone to run dungeon with. In stead of spamming chat for ages, they just whisper to people on the magic 'friend list'. But I don't understand why you get the impression there was any kind of social bound between you?

Clearly if there was a social bound those names would not be gone, would they? How would you otherwise explain a LFG system implementation role in loosing your 'friends'?

 

So called 'friend list' creates an illusion, apparently a good one.

 

I am not claiming you can't make friends in game. I have made some, but we remain friends long after we stopped playing same game..

 

And now answer this.

What gives you better chance to interact with people (ergo find a real friend). Waisting time by sitting on spacedock spamming general chat or maybe enlisting in LFG system and perform some activities while you wait?

Personally I find it easier to talk to my guild mates and help other players while I don't have to monitor general chat at all times.

 

"People buy games and play them to have FUN not to socialize."

I stopped reading here... That's ridiculous.

 

Whats really ridiculous is that you continue to discuss with someone w/o reading his post.

 

Also if you have nothing of value to add, why do you make a post?

Edited January 6, 2012 by Xelosu

[SlickDevlan]

As long as its not cross server and there is no auto port I'm OK with it.

 

However, this is another example of a poster who has absolutely no friggen clue what "need" means.

[Zistar]

Ok so you had many people on 'friends list'.. so what?

 

What does it really mean?

This is yet another example word meaning manipulation, in this case meaning devaluation.

Let see, If I were to change the name from 'friends list' to "presidents list" would you claim you've met so many presidents in the game? Cause now you imply that you had so many 'friends' before and after LFG system you had none.

 

You say those names disappear when LFG system was implemented.

So what this really means?

Cause for me it is obvious that the only reason they were there (on the 'friend list') was removed. They were on your friend list only to have easy access to someone to run dungeon with. In stead of spamming chat for ages, they just whisper to people on the magic 'friend list'. But I don't understand why you get the impression there was any kind of social bound between you?

Clearly if there was a social bound those names would not be gone, would they? How would you otherwise explain a LFG system implementation role in loosing your 'friends'?

 

So called 'friend list' creates an illusion, apparently a good one.

 

I am not claiming you can't make friends in game. I have made some, but we remain friends long after we stopped playing same game..

 

And now answer this.

What gives you better chance to interact with people (ergo find a real friend). Waisting time by sitting on spacedock spamming general chat or maybe enlisting in LFG system and perform some activities while you wait?

Personally I find it easier to talk to my guild mates and help other players while I don't have to monitor general chat at all times.

 

Hmmm lets see... friends on my friends list means they are friends. And yes, there was a social bond and I did more than just dungeons with these people. I did quests, traded crafting goods and some even joined my guild. Some of them I pvp'd with a lot and some I just chatted with a lot through game chat.

 

These were friends I made before the LFD tool, which is a long time ago. Over the years they have all stopped playing, moved servers, whatever... My point was I wasn't adding new people to it once we had LFD and it dwindled to nothing over the years. They didn't diseapper because of the LFD.

 

Argue all you want, the fact remains it was no longer easy for me to make new friends outside my guild once I was no longer running pugs (I met a fair amount in pvp as well). I never said it was impossible... just much harder. Doing a dungeon takes 30 mins to an hour, which gives you time to get to know each other. That's how I made friends easier than the LFD tool. I didn't make the friends while in the process of spamming chat to form the group... it was in the run itself that we became friends. If we are not on the same server what's the point? We can't group up together on our server to do stuff.

[Sir-Coffee]

As long as it isn't cross server, then there isn't a problem.

 

I have spent 4-10 hrs trying to find a pug for flashpoints. It's too stressful. Which brings me to my next point:

 

As soon as I obtain my materials needed for Biochem, I shall never attempt to find a group until a LFF/D system is in place.

[cerveau]

Wow may have LFD/LFR but the chat box is still always full of ppl LFG

so it hasnt affected it that much. plus as others have said, spamming

LFG msgs doesnt make u new best friends.

 

Just think tho, if you had LFD then you could leave the general box free of

LFGs, then you could socialise in g chat without annoying LFGs appearing,

 

to sensible for you ? carry on spamming gen chat with lfg then.

[sithylords]

It destroys the community. I have seen it first-hand. I would rather take the five+ minutes than have to deal with that.

[Chomag]

Spamming "LFG hammer stations" for 30 minutes is what keeps the community going.

[Zistar]

Wow may have LFD/LFR but the chat box is still always full of ppl LFG

so it hasnt affected it that much. plus as others have said, spamming

LFG msgs doesnt make u new best friends.

 

Just think tho, if you had LFD then you could leave the general box free of

LFGs, then you could socialise in g chat without annoying LFGs appearing,

 

to sensible for you ? carry on spamming gen chat with lfg then.

 

No, spamming chat does not make you friends... but doing an instance with people on your own server does.

[cerveau]

It destroys the community. I have seen it first-hand. I would rather take the five+ minutes than have to deal with that.

 

how exactly, you havent said how it destroys ?

[Djhots]

I felt and still do feel that the dungeon finder in wow really hurt the game. My reasons are you can literally stand in one spot and participate in 95% of the game w/o having to move at max lvl. The lack of a dungeon finder increases your chance to interact with people on your server and find good players. Being a wow veteran, I experienced a server transfer of my entire guild and the time it took to get to know ppl on the new server was much longer due to the implementation of systems like raid and dungeon finders.

 

Please keep this out of the game. Allow players to actually play an mmo and interact with fellow players on their server. For those of you that say you can still do that with a dungeon finder, I say that unless you require a gaming community to do something they will not do it. Try to get a same server grp going on wow right now. Its not impossible, but it is difficult when players can simply que for a guaranteed run.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Djhots

[kiddeth]

You can already do all of that by flagging yourself as LFG and then changing your comment, specifying which flashpoint you want. Also, speaking in General chat on the planet you are leveling on has been a great way for me to find groups for a flashpoint at the level I was at.

 

What you really want, I think, is something that will automatically put you in a group. I don't feel we need it, and I don't ever want to see it. If it's too much effort for someone to join a group and not have it done for you, they shouldn't even be playing a game. Try Facebook or some browser game for that.

 

this.

[Syas]

Cons:

 

1. Some people think it ruins the community...but I think they are wrong. They obviously have not sat for an hour trying to fill a Flashpoint group.

2. People who think like that are probably in a huge guild and have no trouble filling groups. We're usually filling 2-3 of 4 and just need that last role.

 

I believe it does ruin community. You spent an hour trying to fill a FP group? Try spending 30 minutes looking for a group, an hour getting to the group, and then only playing for 30 minutes before two people in the group need to go. (EQ1). I sat through that because as I found group after group I took note of good players and they took note of me. It strengthened the server community, and made me feel like I was playing with friendly faces rather than the unwashed masses.

 

As for my Guild size? Current 5. I play off-peak, so usually there is one other person one. Still don't want LFD.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Syas