Xsorus Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Far to many people on this forum are whining about brackets ignoring the fact they completely failed in every other game they've been implemented in. I'll use examples Warhammer Online - Multiple brackets with Bolstering, The kind of brackets the players of this forum want, and what happened. Tier 1 - Ok pops, Tier 2 depending on server, either decent pops or dead, Tier 3 dead on most of the servers, with Tier 4 being fine. Now you ended up with countless players getting 40 and saying "Hey, Why should I have to fight Rank 80 players and premades, bracket them off" Thankfully Mythic never caved to that pressure otherwise the queue time for the game would of be moronic and frankly unappealing, and I actually have an example of it. Rift - Rift is a perfect example of you can't make bad players happy without ruining the game's pvp system for a large portion of it. Rift had a Bracket system, similar to Warhammer, only no Bolster, and you ended up with huge queue times after a while in the early game because not enough people queued for pvp. What happen when these players go to 50, They started whining like in Warhammer, about how they were fighting Rank 6+'s and Premades. Trion Caves in, and Separates Premades and Pugs, Instantly if you had 3 or more people, Your queue times went from instant pop, to 40+ mins usually. Meaning if you wanted to play with your friends, You had to Duo queue.. This caused a huge amount of the PVP population to quit from that one change alone, Now they've taken a new step and separated the actual Ranks Themselves, I went from 5 min queue pops, to 15 min queue pops after the change.. solo.. WoW - Twinks.. nuff said. Fact is, these players won't be happy till everyone else has 1 hour queue pops. I like playing with my low level guild mates, and I like that I can play my alts with my high level guild mates. I know i will die in a 1v1 to a 50, That's how it should be, I accept that.. I just don't get butthurt about it like a ton of the e-thugs do who think they're great players when they really aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShottyTheShotgun Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 True +1 for loving playing lowbies in warzones, also fun if you don't get focused you can top DPS/Kill charts easily no matter the level. Anyway wait times will kill a game faster then any imbalance and anybody who disagrees is wrong, nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpotlightKandy Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I Agree. I've played almost all of the Mmo's out there and I'll be honest and say I loved how the bolstering worked in Warhammer - Being able to join up pvping despite being in the lower levels of the bracket. It's the game I've had the best possible "pvp expereince" in yet. I can however understand that people feel underpowered against level 50's and so on even though the difference really isn't that huge. My tip there would be to allow lower level tiers of "decent" pvp gear with Expertise to give the players that enjoy playing pvp at lower levels a chance at the durability of the 50's with pvp Gear. But as you both mentioned - No to brackets! If the que time for wazones become too long the pvp experience will die out. Theres plenty of examples out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moddim Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I don't even Q for warzones anymore and nethier does anyone in my guild under level 50. ya sure would ruin the Q times if they put in brackets.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiricahua Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I Agree. I've played almost all of the Mmo's out there and I'll be honest and say I loved how the bolstering worked in Warhammer - Being able to join up pvping despite being in the lower levels of the bracket. It's the game I've had the best possible "pvp expereince" in yet. I can however understand that people feel underpowered against level 50's and so on even though the difference really isn't that huge. My tip there would be to allow lower level tiers of "decent" pvp gear with Expertise to give the players that enjoy playing pvp at lower levels a chance at the durability of the 50's with pvp Gear. But as you both mentioned - No to brackets! If the que time for wazones become too long the pvp experience will die out. Theres plenty of examples out there... The first real braket needs to be level 50's, and the next everyone else. We don't need expertise in armor just so low levels can compete with a level 50. There are plenty of level 50 out there. PVP and count them. Three out of 8 on average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoepkrijt Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) Disagreed, this system only caters to the starting player.There should be brackets from lets say 10-20, and 20+. This way the entry level pvp-ers can get a taste, the 20+ with hopefully a little bit more experience will have exciting games where everyone has a basic idea on what to do. Right now it often occurs that I enter a game where some people leave before start if there are too many <20 players. This results in uneven match starts, etc... it just makes playing it less fun. Another example is where hutt ball starters can't pass or have the ball and walk to the wrong side of the base. This might be charming and fun the first few times, but imagine that after months it might get old... Edited January 1, 2012 by stoepkrijt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpyonNext Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 WoW - Twinks.. nuff said. This rhetoric is idiotic. Wow's twinks are lvl 19s(and as a side point you cant have twinks in this game. WoW allows XP to be turned off, this game is extravagant with it's PVP xp rewards). Past that it's pretty much open PVP. Furthermore, WoW has cross server battleground pvp(something this game SHOULD have had at the get go.) which greatly increases the player pool that the brackets have to draw from. Nobody want's 1 hour queue pops, however, we also don't want to join a warzone and be demolished by the fact that the other team out gears and out levels us. Give us cross server, and give us brackets on top of that. This will fix pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkopczak Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 2 brackets would be perfect imo: 10-49and one for lvl 50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnskilledBounty Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 2 brackets would be perfect imo: 10-49 and one for lvl 50 This is what i've been wanting aswell. I am not sure multiple brackets, i just want 50's to have their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalBulkCruiser Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Poster is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Except SWTOR has the player-base that rift/war doesn't, assuming swtor doesn't lose 90% of their subs, if they open up cross-server queuing I doubt there would be any real que problem. Brackets work fine in wow, the problem is how incredibly unbalanced pvp at low levels has become, a bolster system in WOW would just mean that level 20 hunters could one shot fully geared 85s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortcake Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 +1, this is what i've been saying to every ******* suggesting brackets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xVexillex Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 id be happy with 10-49 and a 50, the issue with 50s is their gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiHeilos Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Make PvP gear equal to PvE gear, get rid of the PvP stat, don't need brackets. Whoever came up with the idea of a PvP only stat should be shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynellen Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 id be happy with 10-49 and a 50, the issue with 50s is their gear ^This. People in their 40's are much stronger than low level people but that's mostly due to having more abilities (CC etc) but they can still be killed pretty much normally by good players. The problem is level 50 people with expertise suddenly become godly compared to say level 49 person, well geared 50's have 15-20k hp (compared to everyone elses 12-13k) and along with expertise damage reduction you suddenly need almost 3 non level 50's to take them down in a reasonable amount of time (god forbid they have healer support). So yes just do 10-49 and 50 brackets and things suddenly become alot more even. The only downside this brings is 50's getting longer queues but that problem will slowly improve every day as more and more people reach level 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardoni Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 If they removed expertise, the bolster system in warzones would work fine. Only level 50s get to gear for the pvp stat. This is where the lack of brackets fails. Another solution is to add the pvp stat to level 20/40 pvp gear. The fact that it's halfway implemented on either observation just makes me want to stop typing right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meddyck Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 There's one game where brackets have worked extremely well: DAOC. Non-50s play in the battlegrounds which are broken into a number of level ranges while 50s RvR in the frontier. Many players happily RvR away in the BGs never bothering to take their toons to level 50 and have to deal with the headaches of end game gearing and huge frontier zergs. That's exactly how it should work in SWTOR. Start with kicking 50s out of warzones and having one 10-49 tier. If that still proves unbalanced then split it again. What they have now just isn't fun especially when combined with the endless rotation of Huttball for Imperials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerrai Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 2 brackets would be perfect imo: 10-49 and one for lvl 50 This good sir makes you a winner in 2012 its needed. fix it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceRum Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Make PvP gear equal to PvE gear, get rid of the PvP stat, don't need brackets. Whoever came up with the idea of a PvP only stat should be shot. PvP gear was invented for people who PvP. What would be the point of it if you were getting owned by people who PvE'd? The more you pvp the better gear you get, completely fair. The "pvp stat" is a pvp stat for a reason..... ??? And brackets are necessary. 10 can kill a 50, point in leveling if you can still get killed by someone that low? You will probably say 50s can kill levels 10s easily, so why have such low levels in the same bracket? It could go on forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDLION Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 WARHAMMER PWND!............................Until level 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShenhuaLing Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Brackets are being brought up to solve a problem with a severe imbalance between those with expertise and those without. So...it's either bracket out the 50's or get rid of expertise. I'm personally fine with either option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YooJaeSuk Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Twinks won't be much of a problem here if bolster is in play, nowhere near as imbal as WoW twinks because they use raw stats. If anything, the geared 50s ARE the twinks, plus more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceRum Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Brackets are being brought up to solve a problem with a severe imbalance between those with expertise and those without. So...it's either bracket out the 50's or get rid of expertise. I'm personally fine with either option. Getting rid of 50's would make the most sense, leave them to their bracket and let them earn better stuff, thats what we all want when we get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodtau Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 More people want brackets than don't, so guess what, the game is getting brackets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 This is probably what would happen. Level 1-49 gets their own bracket : fast queues.Level 50 gets their own bracket : long queues. Level 1-49s all hit 50, queues before fast. All those before get long queues. Add in population imbalances and it gets worse. Bolster is a necessary evil to keep queues down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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