Artifice: Too many Enhancements!

[Cemellyn]

Agree. I am 400 artifice and it frustrates the heck out of me that there are so many pairing of stats that makes no sense. The worse is that it creates such a duplicate

[CavemanDaPirate]

to those saying it allows customization, why would i want to customize my stats in a wrong way?

 

no matter what way you spin it, having absorb and surge on the same enhancement is flat out wrong. if you want offensive stats, grab an offensive enhancement. theres no reason to have defensive and offensive stats on the same enhancement, when you can have one for defensive, and one for offensive. its just misleading.

 

new players are probably dumbfounded by the different combinations of stats. even after knowing what each stat does and how effective each is (theorycrafting stat weights and such), seeing all the different combinations made my head spin.

 

you can argue that its not wrong, that its just in-depth customization or whatever, but thats flat-out false. customization is "do i want to hit harder some of the time? or do i want to hit consistantly for the same amount? and what talents do i have that benefit either situation?"

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101frGZIGdZGrRz.1

 

is that in-depth customization? or just plain ineffective?

[xilraazz]

I agree with the OP, at least in that there are a few enhancements that have the same stats as each other. For instance:

 

Bastion Enhancement 22 http://www.torhead.com/item/4oyFHhe

+22 Endurance

+28 Shield Rating

+10 Defense Rating

 

Steadfast Enhancement 22 http://www.torhead.com/item/7pC6jGt

+22 Endurance

+28 Shield Rating

+10 Defense Rating

 

(fyi, torhead labels Shield Rating as "Glance Rating")

 

There are at least 2 other enhancements that duplicate stats, but I dont feel like looking them up.

I just bought all the Enhancements for level 43 (the * Enhancement 19) and was like ***, there's a lot of them. Then, once I started looking at them, I realized that there were several that were duplicate stats, ingredients, and requirements.

 

It made me sad.

[EcrirTwyLar]

Why does it bother you?

 

If you don't like them - then just don't learn/RE it.

 

If someone wants to try different builds that are different from the "approved ones" - he/she can try.

 

 

For instance - I like to have my companions a bit beefier at times so they can survive longer, therefore I sometimes choose endurance + their main attribute (and not the other, proper, way around).

 

 

 

You won't obviously (at least not now) RE everything to get purple recipes, so there will be a lot of people that can craft different items - and that's a good thing

 

 

 

 

And about the level difference - do you really want to have 10 level difference? Make a set for lvl 30 and wait 10 levels for the next set at 40?

 

I'm still leveling and when I see that I'm too weak I'll just replace two or three of the weakest parts and fortunatelly there will be replacements for my level (or one level lower). It makes it more fluid IMHO.

 

I agree with this post. These items are already in the game. You don't have to learn them. But they do give people who want to play around with different stats the option to do so. Why take something out that is already made and some people may want to try out?

[JudeSaint]

Having 48 Enhancements isnt really the problem ... Sure there are some that are way off and most ppl would never want. BUT the real issue is how many times the 3 different stats show up. For instance, im not going to tab out and look to give you exact names however i know for a fact that over half of those 48 or so enhancements ... are duplicats of another enhancement with a different name. Ive actually seen 3 different enhancements have the exact same stats just have different names. that is the real issue. if they cut out all the duplicats ... that 48 would easily drop to at most 30

[XLauncher]

to those saying it allows customization, why would i want to customize my stats in a wrong way?

 

 

Because the wrong way isn't always the wrong way. Depending on what sort of route Bioware decides to take with its endgame content, situations and encounters may arise where some type of gimmick, off the wall build proves hilariously effective for that instance.

 

I'll give you a real world example from everyone's favorite MMO, WoW. Back during Classic, we had a raid called Naxxaramas. In it, there was an encounter called the Four Horsemen. It was nerfed into oblivion for the Wrath version, but the original was pretty freaking ridiculous. One mechanic of the encounter, no need to go into details, necessitated tank swaps. Up until then, most bosses had been immune to taunts, so the fact that taunts could miss was a non issue. So, in comes this fight where taunting is critical and one failed taunt is gg, and you had warriors equipping +spell hit accessories that were originally meant for magi and warlocks.

 

I think it's a good thing that we have such a vast wealth of customization options, because in the future, we'll be able to entertain some pretty insane ideas. Will they all be effective? No, but the fact we'll even have to option to engage in these little thought experiments is worthwhile.

 

That said, it would be nice if they added a stat filter. Like, you'd get a drop down menu, you could select, I dunno, "Absorption," and it'd show you only your recipes that have Absorption in them.

[Aeryl]

on topic: if you dont like 48 enhancements dont make any obviously. focus only on the ones you want. diversity isnt affecting you and f someone else wants to spec in a very particular way they can do so

 

IF it is too much clutter for you, dont learn the recipies you are complaining about.

 

Don't you guys get it? The problem is not that there's too much diversity .. it's that a lot of them are the exact same stats with different names. There have been a couple occasions when I was scanning the ones i thought I'd use by stats and then ended up with two of the same thing but they had different names. If they at least cleaned that up, it would make the list readable.

[CriticalMasses]

Just a note, the reflective enhancement appears to be bugged. it gives an additional stat when you RE it. (+Crit)

[WickedJediKnight]

The thing that bothers me the most ATM are, among the 50 schematics are freaking doubles. There are at least 2 pair of v22 enhancements with the same stats. Part of the problem with that, is the lousy naming scheme. The person or team that was assigned to this clearly did not check their work.

 

Enhancements should follow the MOD system much more closely, where you have a base item, then an A & B version with different weighted stats. FFS, add one in that does power & crit. As it is, there is one enhancement (Reflective 22) that has those two, but also has 4 stat bonuses (End/Shld/Pwr/Crt), which is clearly a fluke since it's the only one. Really, it's just a mess, and I'd like my creds back for training enhancements with duplicate stats.

 

A FREAKING STICKY SORT SETTING WOULD BE NICE!

 

More sort options for enhancements... List goes on & on.

[spacefiddle]

Surge = Threat.

 

No, because you need Crit for it to even be a factor. So now you're stacking Surge *and* crit for it to make a difference, and congrats you just became DPS, because there's no way to do this without sacrificing proper defensive stats. I'm sorry, but this doesn't pan out in practice, even though the idea makes sense.

[spacefiddle]

Don't you guys get it? The problem is not that there's too much diversity .. it's that a lot of them are the exact same stats with different names. There have been a couple occasions when I was scanning the ones i thought I'd use by stats and then ended up with two of the same thing but they had different names. If they at least cleaned that up, it would make the list readable.

 

This, and also the prefix changes every level. This is ridiculous and makes looking for the right one impossible... why call something that's +crit a different name at every level? Is it really helpful to decide level 10 is Critical, but then level 20 is Lethal, then level 30 is Homicidal... and that, at least, is halfway logical progression. Battle Enhancement? Adept Enhancement? Force Wielder? These are arbitrary names that tell you nothing.

 

Aside from the design, there are, as mentioned, plain ol' errors. Diff name, same stats (I've seen this on plenty of gear, especially commendation gear, as well - I believe one of them was meant to be the flip of the other. This kinda screws people who would prefer the flip stats....).

[Elyx]

This, and also the prefix changes every level. This is ridiculous and makes looking for the right one impossible... why call something that's +crit a different name at every level? Is it really helpful to decide level 10 is Critical, but then level 20 is Lethal, then level 30 is Homicidal... and that, at least, is halfway logical progression. Battle Enhancement? Adept Enhancement? Force Wielder? These are arbitrary names that tell you nothing.

 

Aside from the design, there are, as mentioned, plain ol' errors. Diff name, same stats (I've seen this on plenty of gear, especially commendation gear, as well - I believe one of them was meant to be the flip of the other. This kinda screws people who would prefer the flip stats....).

 

Hear hear!

 

I have mixed feelings on the subject. On one hand, I enjoy flexibility and diversity, and a game that has mechanics to support that. on the other hand, I get really confused when i have one mod with high str/low end/and absorb, and another with low str/high end/ and surge? it's like a vegatable soup!

 

a previous commenter made a perfectly logical comment as a solution. If you want Damage stats, pick a damage enhancement! My 33 jugg currently has 5 moddable item pieces. picking an enhancement with a mild surge increase will net me nada in the long run....but If I pick a DPS enhancement (+Str+crit+power as an example) I WILL see the difference. If i slot all 5 pieces with that, it's a huge difference!

 

So, there's no reason to stick a single offensive stat on a defensive enhancement. It's far more logical to just make enhancements singularly focused, especially since many of us will be rocking 5-7 gear pieces that will use those enhancements. Plenty of customization left, even if they take out those oddball mods. put your offensive stats in 2 pieces, your defensive stats in 4...with the current oddball ones, your stats will be all over the place, and a serious mess to try to keep track of. I'd like to know that my DPS enhancements are always in my boots/gloves, while I keep my defensive enhancements in my chest/legs/helm....think you get the point. It's not about eliminating diversity IMO, it's about structuring that diversity more effectively.

 

Won't even go into the mirror recipes and spelling errors...those are bugs/issues that should have been resolved before Beta was over IMO. I heard one time a theory that they'll differ as levels increase and they add more then the current amount of stats to the items, but as of now they're all the same. Might as well take them out.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Elyx

[DesonEQ]

Just a note, the reflective enhancement appears to be bugged. it gives an additional stat when you RE it. (+Crit)

 

As it is, there is one enhancement (Reflective 22) that has those two, but also has 4 stat bonuses (End/Shld/Pwr/Crt), which is clearly a fluke since it's the only one.

 

I consider that one to be one of the few that's actually not broken. Stats make sense, it's versatile but not OP and really just feels right. About the only thing wrong with it is the shield on it but that makes it a solid hybrid for say, a tanking assassin. Enhancements are way overdone and it's just amplified by the weakness of the UI. It'd be one thing if the diversity was actually sensible ( High defense only vs. varied stats) but it's like whoever designed them attempted to cover every possible combo for the sake of doing it--and judging by the results, got overwhelmed.

[Rotuka]

I agree with the original post. The same exact same stats, with the exact same ratings on the exact enhancement and the only things I can see that are different is the name and the order the stats are listed on the enhancement. So for every level you can buy enhancement recipes, if you don't pay attention you end up buying the same recipe at least twice. They've seem to have been made cheaper but there was a time when the mid level recipes cost 3K each. All it does is clutter up the recipes and make them hard to find. Also, the sort they have isn't that good.

[Makkos]

Imo useless stat combination isn't main problem really.

Chaos of names is an issue.

It's present everywhere. The same name means different things.

Simplest example from frist Armormech Aim, End recipes:

Fortified Assault or Heavy Military ? Which is for tank, which is for DPS ? Guess plz.

No answer.

Fortified Assault Belt http://www.torhead.com/schematic/2eYI87z/fortified-assault-belt

9 Aim, 6 End

Heavy Military Belt http://www.torhead.com/schematic/h2jUOOB/heavy-military-belt

10 Aim, 5 End

so for tanking better a bit is Fortified Assault

 

Fortified Assault Boots http://www.torhead.com/schematic/d5V25Tw/fortified-assault-boots

9 Aim, 12 End

 

Heavy Military Boots http://www.torhead.com/schematic/1r3byDw/heavy-military-boots

10 Aim, 10 End

 

again for tanking better is Fortified Assault, seems logical right ? next receipe

 

Fortified Assault Gauntlets http://www.torhead.com/schematic/43Oe0SW/fortified-assault-gauntlets

12 Aim, 12 End

 

Heavy Military Gauntlets http://www.torhead.com/schematic/e0WLRMA/heavy-military-gauntlets

Aim 10, End 14

 

Hm, changing, now take Heavy Military item for your tank.

 

 

What about legs ?

Fortified Assault Graves http://www.torhead.com/schematic/cccy9F1/heavy-military-leggings

14 Aim, 14 End

 

Heavy Military Graves http://www.torhead.com/schematic/cccy9F1/heavy-military-leggings

12 Aim, 16 End

 

Legs like Gauntlets , Heavy Military item for your tank. Chest ?

 

Fortified Assault Chestguard http://www.torhead.com/schematic/9i6N5sS/fortified-assault-chestguard

Aim 14, End 18

 

Heavy Military Body Armor http://www.torhead.com/schematic/9clz6JE/heavy-military-body-armor

Aim 16, End 16

 

Chest like waist and boots.

 

 

This problem exists everywhere in every proffesion. Diffferent names for the same things. I use this example bc these receipes are FIRST you can learn as Armourmech, so it's like Bio tell you: "Don't base on name. It's meaningless. Behind name may be anything. Read all description bc even main idea of item may change from level to level, even if name is the same.

 

I am really confused. Why ? It's chaos, bug ? But everywhere ?

I think that many ( even too many) items is good thing. But, more item you got, more descent system of names is crucial. Ofc also filtering and searching, but first I should know what I am looking for, right ? How can I find anything if "Heavy Military Something" can be for anything. In all modification items type, it's even more important.

 

If this system remain in present state, even superb filtering, sorting won't help.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Makkos

[Calsetes]

As for the enhancements with the same stats, I was told that REing them into blues shows that the stats "evolve" differently, so that one might enhance your End more than Surge, and the other might enhance your Surge more than your End. I have yet to test it myself, but I will as soon as I get back to my Artificing Sentinel.

[jdela]

As for the enhancements with the same stats, I was told that REing them into blues shows that the stats "evolve" differently, so that one might enhance your End more than Surge, and the other might enhance your Surge more than your End. I have yet to test it myself, but I will as soon as I get back to my Artificing Sentinel.

 

That has not been the case for me, though I just tried one (by accident). They progressed the same, though maybe a crit changes it or maybe there is yet another RNG (YARNG) involved. I don't have the patience to try it out. Plus, I can't get rid of the things after I create them and REing back into raw materials seems pointless so I wind up vendoring them.

[Natarii]

Mods dont crit. Crit is found on gear and provides an additional slot for an Augment type mod. You cannot mod a mod, therefore no crits on mod item creation. Edited February 13, 2012 by Natarii

[DragonSire]

Just wandering if any DEVs have ever made any statements about these issues :

 

1. Same / Duplicate Stats

2. Same Names at different levels reflecting very different stats

3. WAY WAY WAY too many at high levels, it just plain gets too be a pain in the butt finding the right ones, and incredibly hard to sell them.

 

OR

 

Have the DEVs just ignored these issues?

Edited September 23, 2013 by DragonSire

[JediJRB]

Having 48 Enhancements isnt really the problem ... Sure there are some that are way off and most ppl would never want. BUT the real issue is how many times the 3 different stats show up. For instance, im not going to tab out and look to give you exact names however i know for a fact that over half of those 48 or so enhancements ... are duplicats of another enhancement with a different name. Ive actually seen 3 different enhancements have the exact same stats just have different names. that is the real issue. if they cut out all the duplicats ... that 48 would easily drop to at most 30

 

This, for me, is the biggest issue. It's daunting to the point that I put off getting new enhancements from the vendor; there are STILL way too many duplicates, and that is just plain sloppy. It's the same with crafting them: one poster mentioned that "same stat/different name" enhancements will diversify when you RE them, but who's to know which ones will and what that diversity might be?

 

It's good to have a wide selection (although I agree with those who posted that certain stats just don't belong together...but I'm no expert). However, the wide selection coupled with duplicates as well as some crazy stat combos just makes this a nightmare.

[MSchuyler]

Holy Necro, Batman! The issue persists 4 years later, so I'm pretty sure they aren't going to fix it. But we're all smart enough to figure this out, right? You aren't REQUIRED to get all the schematics. Just get the few you think you will use. Enhancements do not have main stats anyway--no willpower vs strength vs cunning or aim. It's all endurance and a secondary. Right now I just RE one per level and make sure it has presence. When I learn to be more sophisticated I might double it or quadruple it, but unless you are after a very precise result, there's no reason to get all 48.

[Hluill]

I want to keep this post going. First the number of schematics is overwhelming, for no reason. Next, the stats aren't consistent with their names. And reverse engineering them confuses the stats even more. I learned early on to only buy the enhancements I wanted, then I learned that some of the schematics reverse engineer into other stats.

 

The whole customizable-gear thing is cool, over all, but maintining spreadsheets of thirty slots on a single character with up to forty-eight choices per slot is a bit ridiculous.

 

Sure, I like being able to tweak my characters to my playstyles, but having to spend hours scrolling through schematics and reverse engingeering to produce a mod that might have the stats I want is not fun.

[CheaterLL]

For all those people crying about 'wrong stats':

 

My guild did DF nim 4/5 pre 3.0.

I had several enhancements with those mixed stats, i.e. a (rating 186) high-endurance accuracy/defense enhancement.

Why?

You only need 1 tank for Draxus, so I respecced from tank to smash to beat the enrage timer, but I still had to tank the adds on the right side and to make the healer's job easier I used defensive stats.

My 'DPS'-gear was optimised for my role in this fight.

 

 

But I agree with the duplicate enhancements. Get rid of them.

 

 

And there is a Counterstrike enhancement.