Thanks for the answer! I am sorry I did not find your detailed post on my previous searches. Seems my mod crafters won't be making any higher-level mods anytime soon.

Is the only way to get the schematics, specifically for mods, to run Hard-mode flashpoints? And is the only way to get ingredients for them also in the same Flash Points? Can a casual craft mods for her post-sixty characters?

Huh, in many games crafting is more casual oriented than combat... I have all my crew skills maxxed and I am far from the hard-core arena.

A lot of crafters would disagree.

Resurrecting an old thread here because it's nice to see I am not alone in wanting an actual crafting system. I enjoy EQ2's crafting a lot. It's great to log in and do some crafting or gathering or quests that entail either or both. I think it's great that I can ask companions to craft while i do other things too. But wouldn't it be nice to save some time, especially with the new components to just be able to craftor gather stuff myself? And with all the daily missions, wouldn't it be nice if some of them were crafting or gathering related?

It is definitely frustrating. I have not spent a lot of time on it, but the stat distribution among the mods has changed drastically. And some set ups are no longer available. And in some cases, it is not a simplification. I've always been a fan of hybrid builds, and now that seems more complicated. But a lot of games punish hybrids, so i am used to it. I find it disconcerting that you're having trouble with a DPS set up.

So it's an all or nothing trade? Is leveling faster really an improvement? Is changing a static value on the research die-roll? I think many of the changes they made they needed to make: straightening out the different materials on the different tiers, labeling those tiers and materials properly, opening up crew-mission availabilities and reducing timers... I see those changes as correcting mistakes. As a click-and-wait system, it was crappy. Thing was, I could click and log out so all those timers and RNGs were meaningless. Now I have to make components, all those timers suck, even if they are shorter. I am smart enough to stockpile components, really, I am. But that's another inventory space and it's still another click-and-wait in a click-and-wait system. I don't see why people keep debating me on that point... Some of the other "improvements" I could debate. I kinda shrug at them myself. Bioware basically nerfed my max-affection companions, threw away half my researched blue and purple schematics, asked me to buy over a hundred-thousand-credits worth of new schematics, made all the droid and companion gear I crafted junk, confused mod stats even further. As icing on the cake, they add an additional step to their crafting system so the one thing that made it tolerable: click and log out, is now gone. yeah, keep selling these improvements.

Huh? No, it still doesn't make sense to me... Should I pretend I am in Literature class again, so we can discuss meaning? What's easier? Components are faster to make, sure. So, instead of grinding out wrist armor, grind out components... Me, I want to make something I can equip and use and improve my gameplay. I think it's harder for lower levels with one companion. Instead of telling them to make something arguably useful and logging, I have to make the components first, then tell them to make something arguably useful and log.

Yep, completely agree. I just got one of my characters to her sixties and was trying to find schematics... Was I dissappointed. I've spent all this time maxxing crew skills and researching schematics to basically have it all thrown away. Yep, it was a bland crafting system before, now it's progressively painful.

Never played SWG, but I see your point about "elitest" crafters. They're almost as bad as the "elitest" endgamers! ~laughs~ In EQ2, crafting is almost as dynamic as combat, and as easy to level. I have found it pretty easy to have crafters leveled enough to gear my characters, maybe even easier. In Vanguard, I found crafting to be more challenging than combat. I had a hard time trying to make good gear for my characters. And it involved a lot of grinding... But, I still enjoyed it and spent a great deal of time crafting. This is why the "improvement" of 4.0 frustrates me. Bioware decided to make crafting more involved. No longer am just tracking amounts of materials, but now I have to track amounts and types of components every time I want to gear up a character. They added a step that doesn't add any meaning to the process.

The only difference I see between those two actions is how long the progress bar takes to fill. Sure, I could be something else in game while my companion is crafting, but then that's not crafting.... And, if I am trying to make thirty components... ~sighs~

~laughs~ The action of feeding gifts to companions IS mindless clicking, though it IS more quickly rewarding than the mindless clicking of making components...

It's Bioware's fault for changing the crafting system to be that way and calling it an improvement. I've been pretty good at loading up on components that one of my characters may need in a level or two. My point is that this is an extra step, that it's an unnecessary step in an already mindless crafting system. Crafting can be a fun part of an MMO. Bioware has designed it to be bothersome background noise to be managed while doing other things.

THAT is my overall complaint about SWtOR's crafting system! It should not feel like another one of the Sergeant Major's mindless detail assignments: the rocks need to be painted on both sides! I hate crafting systems that encourage doing something else, watching TV, surfing the net, etc, while crafting. When I log into the game I want to play it, not click, wait fifteen minutes for a bar to fill, then repeat. If I am crafting, I want to craft. If I want to earn affection with a companion, I should be doing stuff with the companion. At least pre 4.0 I could click and log out, or switch to another character. Now I should stay and wait. Now i have to spend a lot more time shuffling inventory spaces.

amen!

Yes, I am very ignorant about economics. I listen to most economics' experts and perceive that they are full of hot air, and themselves. I haven't played GW2 in a while but I didn't see it as a broken economy. One of the factors you have to examine when using the term cost is demand. Materials cost more on auction/trade houses because only rich players who don't have the time to gather buy them. The idea of buying materials then crafting items for profit is ludicrous in an MMO economy. It does happen, but has been the exception to the rule in my exoerience. The crafters that can exploit those exceptions make money, the rest of us just craft for fun. In every MMO I've ever played, materials cost more than the items they make, comparatively. If I want to make some quick currency, I sell stacks of mats, which are usually bought by the resellers who are playing the market.

Yep, I lost a lot of schematics. Then had to spend a lot of credits to update my crafters with the new schematics. I spent the refund of the droid part and didn't buy them all. Between the lost purple schematics and the added step of component crafting, I am not very happy with these changes.

I spent quite a while, and a lot of credits, on Fleet talikng to crafting trainers so that my crafter could have the schematics I needed. All crafters have new schematics to buy. The stats on gear mods now are very different. I spent most, if not more, of the droid-part refund on the new schematics.

Your generalizations about "casuals" are inaccurate. Many casuals, myself included, have multiple crafters. A few of my alts I don't log onto much until I need them to craft something or gather more materials to restock the vault. Most of my alts I enjoy playing and leveling thus I need to craft stuff for them from time to time on other alts. I had three Cybertechs, each specializing in different attributes. Now I have only two and I enjoy playing both of them, though I am not sure how much crafting they will do... But you're right, the new system is more efficient if I wait for the components to be completed. I find it to be a pain in the inventory to craft while doing missions though. In other games, I can log in and craft or gather or adventure. This game just has crafting and gathering as background noise. With these components, it's an irritating background noise. It's too bad that BioWare couldn't use the imagination they put into combat into crafting as well.

Cybertech is definitely not as useful as it was pre 4.0. I had three of them specializing in the different stats, but now there's just Mastery. Now Synthweavers and Armortechs make Armorings, but Cybertechs get to make Enhancements. And my Artificer now can make Artifacts for all levels. Augments are a confusing mess for me so far. I guess it kinda evens out.

I certainly have to say that I am not a fan of this game's crafting system and am enjoying the "upgrade" even less.

Oh, and I have found a few cases where the archived gear was better. Granted, not a lot, but enough to make me want to check. That and the way stats are distrubuted among the different mods has changed, so sometimes the older mod has a more useful mix of stats.

Cool replies and I appreciate them. Instead of cutting and pasting let me instead just use an example of my issue. I am running missions on one of my characters and I realize that my gear is out of date so I do some alt hopping. I log onto my different crafters and get them to make the gear I want and I log out. Later, when I am ready to update my character's gear, I log onto the crafters and mail the completed gear the character. Now, I have to go through the intermediate step of making a bunch of components. Yes, I have been making components in anticipation of that need, but it always seems I don't have enough of the right components. It's hard enough tracking thirty different items, now I have to track almost a hundred different components and the materials to make them. Components are not saving my storage space, I still need space for the materials as I gather them. Components are not saving me time because I have to wait for four of them to be completed to make one piece of gear. As some additional information, I did already research blues and some purples for the gear I liked. Now with the components, researching purples is a major pain. It doesn't matter if I'm in Fleet, in my ship or on mission: I am waiting for completion bars to fill. Four components and the item is five bars that need filling. And if I am on a planet, materials, components and items are now competing for inventory space with the junk drops, another pain. I know how to work this crafting system, but am frustrated by being told "It's improved!" I am going to say it again: It's a click-and-wait crafting-system, why am I having to wait even longer? Why make a click-and-wait system such a pain to use? It's like being told toilet paper has been improved by putting splinters in it...

My first issue is the internediate ingredients, the components. It is a major time dump to try to figure out which ones and how many. It is a major waste of time waiting to craft four of them to make a single mod. I still need twenty-five of them, plus relics, implants and earpiece... Sure, I could spend all my log-in time over the next few WEEKS converting all my mats into components, but that doesn't save me space, or time. And I've got to spend more time figuring out how many of which component I need to make. This is NOT a simplified, streamlined, time-saving change. In fact, I think it takes LONGER to make a mods. Now I am running into issues with materials. There seems to be some randomness as to which gathering skills gather the materials for different schematics. I now need purple and blue materials from other places. And I better remember to look through the jumble of archived schematics to ensure comparable items don't have better stats there. All those confusing stats on all those mods, I still have to deal with them AND the new stats on the new mods. So: Get rid of the stupid components! Examine the materials needed. Readjust the stats on the mods... Here's a clue: if you want to make a click-and-wait crafting-system, time should be measured in seconds per item, not minutes and hours.

{/rant on} Still comes back to the fact that components are a pain in my butt. It's an extra step to an already tiresome crafting system. I made my piece with the old one. I thought I had it figured out. Was pretty easy to keep my characters geared. Now the itemization is fouled up: NOT simplified. And there are these stupid components. Instead of playing, or even crafting, I am trying to figure out who makes what and how, and how many freakin' components I'll need, and where to put those cursed components while on mission. {/rant off}