Halaek Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Seems players are still behaving like children when in Dromund Kass chat. Last night for instance, we had misogyny, racism, body shaming and of course religious intolerance. Any mention of perhaps toning down the chat is met with derision and in most cases more explicit references and bullying of the player daring to speak out. Is this the game the Dev team wish now? I tried to report in game last night as many as i could and found it hard to fit my complaints into any of the slimmed down topics available, I where does my complaint fit? Spam, Harassment or real life threat? The help for players here is shockingly bad compared to other MMO's. Lord of the Rings Online for instance is a older game, has a smaller player base than this one and they can afford to have a GM monitor chat channels. Granted its not 24/7 but at a random time for a hour or so, surely this is a better way. Dromund Kaas chat and Coruscant at times is terrible, the chat there is illegal in some countries, why is it tolerated? You have a duty of care do you not, to your playerbase. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulbulusTheGreat Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 nothing exlusive to dromund kaas, i've seen this behaviour on coruscant and even some less populated planets, there are guilds that are well known for being toxic as well, welcome to MMOs, best thing to do is directly report the person thats saying those things and make sure its known why you're reporting him, apart from that just legacy ignore them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halaek Posted April 7 Author Share Posted April 7 Welcome to mmos? That is no excuse. I have been active in nearly all the major mmos for nearly 30 years, its getting worse, not better. BW or whoever own this game now, have a duty of care. They are not even upholding their own ToS. If games with far far lower revenue are actively moderating their channels, so can this one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciferior Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 (edited) @Halaek Sounds like DK being DK to me ..... While I do not support some of the more vulgar chat It would take something extreme for me to report someone on DK of all places considering its normal chat... "Any mention of perhaps toning down the chat is met with derision and in most cases more explicit references and bullying of the player daring to speak out." Is probably where you screwed up tbh If you want to police the chat on the game you should put in a job application for as a moderator... If I find the chat seems to be acting like children completely immature talking about things that make me cringe then I simply turn the chat off... If you really have been active in MMOs for nearly 30 years then the chat shouldnt surprise you it isnt anything new and tbh you should know how to deal with it personally at this point just like the rest of us who have been around the same amount of time..... It isnt my place to tell these people how they should conduct their conversations... If it truly is something extreme like racism then I report for harassment/verbal abuse then I move along and the moderators can decide for them selves if it warrants action... "body shaming and of course religious intolerance." ... Iv experienced my share of religious intolerance from my time in the infantry to civilian life and it was usually done by a specific group of people who claim righteousness in their belief system and condemns anyone who doesnt support their mindset.. And we have quite a few of those very same minded players on this game pushing their beliefs on others preaching in chat.... I simply block them and move along as they are not worth my time Far as body shaming goes seems to be a toss up ...on a game where you can design your character to be objectively thin as a pencil to being morbidly obese yeah people are going to have some preferences There are times sure Id love to look at chat and help new players... but If I am on DK leveling a new character that isnt the place I am going to decide to do it because I know better... Half the players on planets like DK participating in chat probably like it there because of said chat and thats their deal there are plenty of ways to report someone if they say something that truly warrants a report Considering the polarizing topic of racism in real life where people cant decide if a bowl of cereal is being racist because of how its colored vs people being publicly shamed because of their ethnicity no matter what it is I can turn on my MSN page right now and potentially 5 different stories from 1 particular political party and see what they view as racism and see if it aligns what my concept of it is.... I would wager a majority of that DK chat you saw was literal kids doing what kids always do and guess what.... That is on their parents It isnt my place or job to instill discipline and respect for others in their lives on a video game and if they parents do not want to do that then it is on them and their kids will learn accordingly via life lessons.. aka the hard way as most of us did But I am not going to hover in that chat trying to instruct them on how they should speak to or about others ..... Broadsword isnt paying me to do so nor am I required to do so as condition of playing the game Edited April 7 by Luciferior 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTricicolo Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 As idiotic as I might sound, the only solution is to remove chat entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciferior Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 (edited) @TonyTricicolo I wouldnt say its idiotic but I call for a compromise to an extent ....Having a separate tab that new players can use to ask for help questions regarding issues their having And having a different chat tab that allows the more... profane to have their conversations but not at the cost of others... An unlimited block list might help or having atleast a larger one I do hate having to turn off the chat and potentially not be able to help others because I do not want to see the other stuff being discussed but that also depends on the planet I am on New world has something similar a help tab where people can ask questions think its server wide and get answers and in most cases it seems to function as that They have a normal global chat for the folks who want to talk about things that the rest might not want to engage in.. They have a faction chat.... an area based chat for people in that POI location in all Amazon imo did decent considering new worlds chat can get pretty vulgar also.... But the point is they have options instead of a one and done general chat and toss the majority into that mess.. So broadsword when your moderators are scanning over my statements that could be a potential QOL improvement to bring to the game .... It might help a bit... Edited April 7 by Luciferior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekar Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Here is some of the best advice you could get. Add ignore and/or turn chat off. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 (edited) 2 hours ago, Halaek said: Welcome to mmos? That is no excuse. I have been active in nearly all the major mmos for nearly 30 years, its getting worse, not better. BW or whoever own this game now, have a duty of care. They are not even upholding their own ToS. If games with far far lower revenue are actively moderating their channels, so can this one. False equivalency to set the median of behavior of all MMOs against SWTOR. I've been playing MMOs since Everquest 1 came out in 1999, and mushes and MUDs since the late 80's when Gemstone III by Simutronics came out in 1988, and to this day I still play EQ1 and EQ2, and in ten hours of play in either of those games, I might, repeat might (but more as likely not) hear 1 minute's worth of the trash-talking that I hear in SWTOR, so no. MMOs are not all the same in terms of the level of trash-talk. Edited April 7 by xordevoreaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciferior Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 @xordevoreaux EQ 1 ...ah those were the days ...You got any SoW by chance? Im feeling a bit sluggish these days ... also anyone got eyes on Sgt Slate? I heard he was roaming again lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 FFX doesn't seem to have this degree of problem with chat. Occasionally, yet but on a regular basis no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeMballer Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Sticks and stones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TahliahCOH Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Just close your chat window (or what I do), deselect "General" chat when that stuff happens. It doesn't happen all the time, but it is annoying. Easy fix, though. Shrug. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainbladejk Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 People are going to be tools in chat if they think they can be. This isn't exclusive to DK but to the internet as a whole. You're never going to get rid of all of the foolishness and toxicity that can pop up in chat. If someone is outright making threats then yes absolutely report that. Otherwise if people are being tools your best bet is to ignore it and turn chat off. You're not going to stop it all and even then it's not your job to do it. If you want to police the chat then you should apply for a moderator position. 99% of the time people on the internet that talk crap are all bark and no action. Now by no means do you have to like it, but like I said you'll go nuts worrying about it so much. Report it if there are actual threats but otherwise it's not worth your time worrying about is so much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegaMist Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 I'd also say there might be a little bit of cosplay going on here (even if it just happens in the back of their minds), which is why it predominantly happens on Dromund Kass, out of all places in SWTOR Universe. When playing Imperials, you're essentially playing bad guys who are notoriously non-polite in a society where everyone is for themselves. Do some people take it too far? Sure they do - that's what we as humans are all guilty of, at least every once in a while. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eabevella Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Try forming a group on fleet... ugh. On a bright side, new players are still getting help when they ask stuffs on the fleet, so it's not all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFadedMemory Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 11 hours ago, Luciferior said: While I do not support some of the more vulgar chat It would take something extreme for me to report someone on DK of all places considering its normal chat... lolz I'm of the same opinion. I kind of expect DK to be a trash environment (and for some playthroughs it adds to the roleplay 🤣) Now as for as other planets go, it would pretty much have to be targeted harassments for me to report those. Assuming I notice it. I'm not really paying much attention to the chat except when I'm looking for groups or posting in chat. Now can they get somebody to monitor it 24/7 probably. I'm not sure how complicated/hard it would be to for one person to monitor all planet, faction and other chats, but I like to believe its not impossible. That being said, that need/request is low on my list of things I think they need to do/fix 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciferior Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) @AFadedMemory Some call DK dromund kaas.... I call it the Deviant Kingdom because thats where it goes down Jawa erp rule 34 jokes you name it DK has done it.. You couldnt pay me to go there and read the chat with a straight face and pretend like its fine lol Id either join the chat or turn it off out of disgust most likely turn it off I can understand OPs reluctance to engage in that kind of talk and not want to see it I really can understand it But it takes a special kind of soul to go to DK of all places and try to tell them to keep the chat clean I can only imagine what they said in return... Thats like me walking into a buffet filled with a bunch heavy set folks and I decide to start cracking fat jokes its not going to end well for anyone least of all me lol Valkorian said he abandoned DK to begin with.... The truth was he got tired of hearing all those Darth Baras the wide jokes in chat. I will go with the notion of something extreme is said a report is reasonable to file though this idea that the report system isnt specific enough doesnt seem accurate As a subber if you see someone doing something that seems off you can literally file a ticket type the players name in explain what their doing and the moderators will deal with them if their actions warrant it If your f2p you can still do the normal report for harassment/verbal abuse that usually covers most of the iffy topics anyways besides If your f2p going to DK you arent missing anything from that chat to begin with Edited April 8 by Luciferior 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFadedMemory Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 41 minutes ago, Luciferior said: Valkorian said he abandoned DK to begin with.... The truth was he got tired of hearing all those Darth Baras the wide jokes in chat. Gold🤣 he wasn't tired of the empire just DK chat lolz! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirana Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 FF14 is the only game I've played where the toleration level is different than most. There you will be warned, then banned, in game or on their forums. I would suggest playing that game if this is something that people have a hard time with. The obvious answers are to simply block the person in game and/or report them, turn your chat off, etc. There is only so much staff can do with this game and their limited overhead. As someone that's been around long before the internet became a part of our every day life, we live in a different world now. There's only so much that can be done on any online platform, although entities such as Yahoo, Youtube etc., you're very limited with what you can post. Some won't allow the message to be posted at all, others it will appear your statement was posted, but after waiting a minute or so, and refreshing the page, your post is gone. I would imagine at some point, most platforms will adhere to this, but this game also started development in the late 2000's, and how a modern game would handle current chat systems might be a little more intricate than a post on a social media platform. The gist of this is, exercise the block option and report, or simply turn the chat off, there's only so much staff can do. Regarding DK, it's been the same since the very beginning of the game, it hasn't changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew_Braxton Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals..." - Agent K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tofu_Shark Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 When people are forced to turn off General chat because of the trolls, the trolls win. They think of Gen chat as their own personal clubhouse, and they don't want anyone encroaching on their territory. This kind of behavior is not exclusive to this or any game. It can be seen all over the internet and not just with trolls. The trolls of DK think they own General chat, and it's high time they were reminded who holds the keys. As much as I agree with "we just have to grin and bear it today," I only think this way because the game staff is minimal and the subscribers low. Maybe other games with more staff and more subscribers can better afford to ban people like we have on Dromund Kaas or maybe it's just simply a will to do something about it? Since I've only played a handful of MMOs, I can't say this kind of behavior is normal elsewhere. Maybe it is more prevalent in MMORPGs? I have played other types of MMOs and never saw swill anywhere remotely close to what I've observed in SWTOR. I hope more players with experience in a variety of MMOs and veterans of the days of launch can testify to how bad players were in chat, if chat was moderated and if it was, how effectively it was. It's important to know if this part of the ToS was ever enforced to understand how the devs of this game have viewed this, and understanding how other games handled it can give the devs ideas on how to best deal with it. DK chat is only normal because it has persisted for so long with so many participants. What might have been outrageous at launch is now long considered par for the course. The problem with the normalization of extreme behavior is the slippery slope. Do we trust the behavior will reach a point of equilibrium eventually or will negligence only ensure it continues to slide further and further into depravity and obscenity? This normalization of the unacceptable should be the unacceptable part. Furthermore, not moderating chat, particularly DK chat has resulted in it metastasizing to other areas of the game. It was noticed a few years ago elements of DK chat had spread to Republic Fleet, for instance, with people even remarking on the similarities. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away. It won't even contain it. Is anyone actually foolish enough to expect a problem like this to self-regulate? As much as I abhor shadow bans, I think they would be appropriate for this. People that engage in this behavior on a regular basis could be shadow banned to a separate channel, a "prisoner's island," if you will where they can troll each other to their black heart's content. The devs can then decide when they want to ban someone. This would clean up General chat and make it friendlier and more welcoming for new players. A prisoner's island could also help train their own tools to better detect troll behavior. A separate channel for new players wouldn't stop people from trolling it. Aside from the starting planets, the capital planets are where new players get their most striking impressions of the players within the game. I shudder to think of how many new players stopped playing after witnessing the horror that is DK chat. Honestly, the best method we have of controlling chat now is reporting people for spam so they get squelched. I think I new report option called "Trolling" or something like that should be created so it's as easy to report as it, that also results in the player with enough reports being squelched but doesn't conflate this type of behavior with spam, which could make it harder for the devs to sift out the actual spammers from the trolls. It being under its own category could eventually serve to better identify and stop it, much like how the devs have done a great job finally in controlling the credit sellers. But none of this matters unless the devs are concerned about it and have the will to take action. Like they finally did with the hyperinflation and the credit sellers. It's up to us, the players, to make them realize this is a serious problem. I have little faith in the playerbase because of the general attitude expressed here which you can find all over the game as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceguy Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) On 4/7/2024 at 6:42 AM, Halaek said: we had misogyny, racism, body shaming and of course religious intolerance. If you were the target of the "body shaming" ignore the user and/or report them using the in game report feature. If it was against Darth Baras or an IRL public figure, ignore it and move on with your life and/or ignore the user. If the "racism" was against Real-Life races, ignore the user and/or report them using the in game report feature. If it was against Star Wars aliens, ignore it and move on with your life. Religious intolerance is not really a crime. Ignore it or ignore the user. Please remember, the Empire is built on the foundation of slavery, xenophobia, and classism (placing Sith above all else). If you disagree with any of these, go to Coruscant. Edited April 8 by Traceguy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anhkriva Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 On 4/7/2024 at 1:42 PM, Halaek said: we had misogyny, racism, body shaming and of course religious intolerance Most of these things the player experiences from the NPCs in this game... Misogyny on Quesh on the Imperial side from one of the officers on the headquarters. Racism is everywhere on the side of the empire, especially as a force user but not only. There is also religious intolerance, if I remember correctly, even Jadus talks about it when we mention to him that we do not worship the the Force like the Sith do. I have a question for those who complain about DK chat, if it is so bad, why, apart from the fleet, is it the chat with the most activity in the game? Either the number of people who are bothered by it is very small, the population of this game consists of trolls, or it's not as bad as you say. Personally, I would like to connect all my SH to the DK chat because it is the only one worth reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 The best things people can do to avoid Stuff like that is to simply turn off General chat. When I'm on DK I don't even look at it when I have it on, because the chat is so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tofu_Shark Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) On 4/8/2024 at 8:42 AM, Traceguy said: If you were the target of the "body shaming" ignore the user and/or report them using the in game report feature. If it was against Darth Baras or an IRL public figure, ignore it and move on with your life and/or ignore the user. If the "racism" was against Real-Life races, ignore the user and/or report them using the in game report feature. If it was against Star Wars aliens, ignore it and move on with your life. Religious intolerance is not really a crime. Ignore it or ignore the user. Please remember, the Empire is built on the foundation of slavery, xenophobia, and classism (placing Sith above all else). If you disagree with any of these, go to Coruscant. I really think this type of behavior goes far beyond "roleplaying" that it shouldn't be written off as such. On 4/8/2024 at 9:22 AM, Anhkriva said: Most of these things the player experiences from the NPCs in this game... Misogyny on Quesh on the Imperial side from one of the officers on the headquarters. Racism is everywhere on the side of the empire, especially as a force user but not only. There is also religious intolerance, if I remember correctly, even Jadus talks about it when we mention to him that we do not worship the the Force like the Sith do. I have a question for those who complain about DK chat, if it is so bad, why, apart from the fleet, is it the chat with the most activity in the game? Either the number of people who are bothered by it is very small, the population of this game consists of trolls, or it's not as bad as you say. Personally, I would like to connect all my SH to the DK chat because it is the only one worth reading. That it is the most active doesn't mean it's the most popular, and popularity doesn't automatically equate to good or quality. It could just mean trolls are more active chatters than the average player. Correlation does not equal causation. Edited April 9 by Tofu_Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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