PvP is such a slog for most players who don't PvP all the time solution suggestions inside.

[VegaMist]

3 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

I want to be rewarded for my participation in the game like how it works with PvP season or Galactic Season PvP conquest goals. With those weeklies players are rewarded for obtaining a certain threshold of medals. It's not a perfect system and medals need a bit of reworking, especially for GSF, but using medals as a baseline to finish dailies and weeklies would reward players who actually play the game versus players who completely ignore objectives or AFK from the start of a match finishing their dailies and weeklies 1 loss at a time with zero participation.

Rewarding participation in Warzones and GSF would go a long way in reducing the slog in PvP and make participation worth it for those who aren't learning something new and wonderful every win or loss... you know, the people who have been playing the same unchanged warzone and GSF maps for over a decade.

 

So, you see, this is where we differ. You PVP because you want rewards. I PVP because I like it and I guarantee I'm not alone.

[Darkestmonty]

16 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

So, you see, this is where we differ. You PVP because you want rewards. I PVP because I like it and I guarantee I'm not alone.

and you think I'm an outlier?

What do you lose if the system starts rewarding participation instead of wins and losses only?

Finishing dailies and weeklies is a slog because it does not account for how well or poorly a player participates in the game. For those who aren't in wonder with every PvP match and instead are grinding their dailies and weeklies, there is no reason for us to delay an inevitable loss or even participate in a lost game since our participation does not change the outcome or rewards we receive.

Edited March 31 by Darkestmonty

[VegaMist]

11 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

and you think I'm an outlier?

I only go by what you said yourself. If you decide to give it a name, that's up to you.

13 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

What do you lose if the system starts rewarding participation instead of wins and losses only?

It actually does though perhaps not as much as you'd like - that's what the medal's system is about.

15 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

Finishing dailies and weeklies is a slog because it does not account for how well or poorly a player participates in the game. For those who aren't in wonder with every PvP match and instead are grinding their dailies and weeklies, there is no reason for us to delay an inevitable loss or even participate in a lost game since our participation does not change the outcome or rewards we receive.

As I said, you're in PVP for the wrong reasons. I've been in plenty of matches which could have been won if not for half a team giving up at a first sight of trouble which is exactly what you're defending. If all you're trying to do is to get out of there as fast as possible, it will feel sluggish and boring to you no matter what.

[Darkestmonty]

35 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

I only go by what you said yourself. If you decide to give it a name, that's up to you.

It actually does though perhaps not as much as you'd like - that's what the medal's system is about.

As I said, you're in PVP for the wrong reasons. I've been in plenty of matches which could have been won if not for half a team giving up at a first sight of trouble which is exactly what you're defending. If all you're trying to do is to get out of there as fast as possible, it will feel sluggish and boring to you no matter what.

Reward players for doing well in warzones, independent of a win or loss, by advancing their dailies and weeklies based on their performance and participation in the game.

Edited March 31 by Darkestmonty

[Anhkriva]

Treating the MVP of the losing team as a member of the winning team (match counted as 2x) and the worst member of the winning team as a loser (match counted as 1x) would be fair imo. 

Let's reward individual achievements, not being carried by a better team.

[Luciferior]

1 hour ago, VegaMist said:

I only go by what you said yourself. If you decide to give it a name, that's up to you.

It actually does though perhaps not as much as you'd like - that's what the medal's system is about.

As I said, you're in PVP for the wrong reasons. I've been in plenty of matches which could have been won if not for half a team giving up at a first sight of trouble which is exactly what you're defending. If all you're trying to do is to get out of there as fast as possible, it will feel sluggish and boring to you no matter what.

While I applaud your effort here this is one of those moments where it is futile folks like Darkest with that mindset of needing to be rewarded better for playing the game just want to be catered to thats all it is

Dailies and weeklies are already easy to finish especially for warzones and the ironic point of this is because of dailies and weeklies rewarding losses is why we are at this point to begin with..

If I recall correctly *possible* that I am wrong but I want to say you had to win to complete those weeklies and dailies before and now you dont you can lose your way there

And its any wonder people arent satisfied with that ideal anymore 3 matches towards the weekly for a single win imo seems pretty reasonable but it only works if they win I dont even want to entertain the idea that darkest is somehow the secret MVP of all his teams in PvP and his teams are always damage farmers who always ignore the objective because I dont believe it for a second lol..

Iv seen more than enough self proclaimed hero's in warzone filling up the chat box with nonsense while pretending their contributing something of value and damn near everytime that match ends I go down to that players name and check what they really contributed sure enough alot of those times *Not always* but alot of them are 0s across the board...

No objectives no damage done no healing protection nothing I check the class its damn near always a spec capable of stealth usually an assassin 

Ops and Scoundrels seem to actually PvP but I cannot tell you how many times iv seen assassins and shadows literally pike entire matches lol especially on star forge

I want to say Deadofwinter was an assassin this man would monologue in chat about his team is garbage the entire time sure enough everytime the match ended he pulled 0s while he literally typed the entire time hed stealth and run to a corner of the map and run his mouth the entire time contributing nothing then complain the team lost lol

I realize this last bit is off topic in regards to my opinion but I feel like personally this is a reflection of our society in real life folks want to be rewarded and exalted for doing the bare minimal and everytime someone caves to give them what they want they always want more after lol

Broadsword could adjust tomorrow daily weekly contribution in their favor for *playing the match* and I do not have a doubt in my soul that within a month of that change those very same players would be back to intentionally losing afking matches flying into rocks you name it lol match manipulation is what it ought to be called 

But they will all tell you if they were just rewarded better for trying lol it would make all the difference! ....

You will never convince him to change his mindset that is why I said what I said to him earlier without hesitating He does not care about this game mode by his literal word all he cares about are the rewards from weeklies and dailies and he will continue to toss matches whether its in warzone or star fighter to get his way

Personally I hope the devs take a look at this thread and read comments like his and adjust the weeklies dalies to not reward progress at all if a player is intentionally losing by his own word he does it and encourages others to do so lol...

Edited March 31 by Luciferior

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, Luciferior said:

While I applaud your effort here this is one of those moments where it is futile folks like Darkest with that mindset of needing to be rewarded better for playing the game just want to be catered to thats all it is

Dailies and weeklies are already easy to finish especially for warzones and the ironic point of this is because of dailies and weeklies rewarding losses is why we are at this point to begin with..

If I recall correctly *possible* that I am wrong but I want to say you had to win to complete those weeklies and dailies before and now you dont you can lose your way there

And its any wonder people arent satisfied with that ideal anymore 3 matches towards the weekly for a single win imo seems pretty reasonable but it only works if they win I dont even want to entertain the idea that darkest is somehow the secret MVP of all his teams in PvP and his teams are always damage farmers who always ignore the objective because I dont believe it for a second lol..

Iv seen more than enough self proclaimed hero's in warzone filling up the chat box with nonsense while pretending their contributing something of value and damn near everytime that match ends I go down to that players name and check what they really contributed sure enough alot of those times *Not always* but alot of them are 0s across the board...

No objectives no damage done no healing protection nothing I check the class its damn near always a spec capable of stealth usually an assassin 

Ops and Scoundrels seem to actually PvP but I cannot tell you how many times iv seen assassins and shadows literally pike entire matches lol especially on star forge

I want to say Deadofwinter was an assassin this man would monologue in chat about his team is garbage the entire time sure enough everytime the match ended he pulled 0s while he literally typed the entire time hed stealth and run to a corner of the map and run his mouth the entire time contributing nothing then complain the team lost lol

I realize this last bit is off topic in regards to my opinion but I feel like personally this is a reflection of our society in real life folks want to be rewarded and exalted for doing the bare minimal and everytime someone caves to give them what they want they always want more after lol

Broadsword could adjust tomorrow daily weekly contribution in their favor for *playing the match* and I do not have a doubt in my soul that within a month of that change those very same players would be back to intentionally losing afking matches flying into rocks you name it lol match manipulation is what it ought to be called 

But they will all tell you if they were just rewarded better for trying lol it would make all the difference! ....

You will never convince him to change his mindset that is why I said what I said to him earlier without hesitating He does not care about this game mode by his literal word all he cares about are the rewards from weeklies and dailies and he will continue to toss matches whether its in warzone or star fighter to get his way

Personally I hope the devs take a look at this thread and read comments like his and adjust the weeklies dalies to not reward progress at all if a player is intentionally losing by his own word he does it and encourages others to do so lol...

the current daily and weekly system promotes AFKing and ending games as quickly as possible win or lose.

I much prefer a system which rewards people for playing the game well over not participating.

Edited March 31 by Darkestmonty

[DeannaVoyager]

12 hours ago, VegaMist said:

Here is the difference - for those who genuinely love PVP, the game itself is a reward.

I don't play pvp anymore, but this is spot on, I never cared about the rewards, I played because it was fun. Bribing more people to do pvp might work for their stats, but those people will leave the moment they finish the season. Meanwhile the farming mentality drives real pvp players away and it will be even more difficult to salvage what is left of it.

[eabevella]

23 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

I don't play pvp anymore, but this is spot on, I never cared about the rewards, I played because it was fun. Bribing more people to do pvp might work for their stats, but those people will leave the moment they finish the season. Meanwhile the farming mentality drives real pvp players away and it will be even more difficult to salvage what is left of it.

I hate PvP and they couldn't even lure me back in with the PvP season rewards. I love decorations but after trying for 2 seasons, I just hate it and will never try it.

What BS should do is make PvP good for PvP players, and PvE good for PvE players so that there ALL players can get what they're here for, whether it's for GS rewards, grind, or fun.

[Luciferior]

7 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

the current daily and weekly system promotes AFKing and ending games as quickly as possible win or lose.

I much prefer a system which rewards people for playing the game well over not participating.

You are more than welcome to say that all you like.... However you are not going to personally convince me to believe you its just how it is

We are on too very different spectrums I truly care for this game mode and hope for its recovery

You seem to care only about the rewards which is your choice

I honestly to not know if there is a single PvP minded player in any of these threads that will look at your statements and believe deep down you mean well

I personally believe this mindset of intentionally losing to end matches faster will end up destroying what is left of the game mode 

I would rather not get any rewards at all if that meant the return of PvP to some form of competition that gives it a chance to prosper instead of wither and die off like it is doing now lol

[Stradlin]

16 minutes ago, Luciferior said:

You are more than welcome to say that all you like.... However you are not going to personally convince me to believe you its just how it is

We are on too very different spectrums I truly care for this game mode and hope for its recovery

You seem to care only about the rewards which is your choice

I honestly to not know if there is a single PvP minded player in any of these threads that will look at your statements and believe deep down you mean well

I personally believe this mindset of intentionally losing to end matches faster will end up destroying what is left of the game mode 

I would rather not get any rewards at all if that meant the return of PvP to some form of competition that gives it a chance to prosper instead of wither and die off like it is doing now lol

 

Lots of different people with different more or less overlapping motivations do pvp.  There are lots of people who enjoy GSF/Ground PvP and will queue up purely for the sake of it. They might even be completely detached from rest of the game around it. Like I know a good number of gsf pilots who see entire SWTOR as a waiting lobby for GSF, nothing more.

There are lots of people driven by conq farming and the certain satisfaction in taking  what is the most efficient path  this regard.(Tackling all of the various frontloaded content available in game, which among other things includes  pvp, gsf and arena  weekly. )

Lots of people are some sort of a mixture of these two.

Ultimately, both groups are prolly pretty large and benefit from one another a great deal. Since all are fishes swimming  in the same queuepool.  As game is getting quieter, all multiplayer aspects are  gradually becoming more and more starved for people. 

 

 

Edited March 31 by Stradlin

[FrontLineFodder]

Get rid of the different win vs lose reward, and replace it with an equal participation reward.

not participation in the sense of I stood in a corner for 12mins. But that I moved around, I threw my saber, used my shield. I might suck and get 0 kills and 20 deaths, but I tried.

Weekly rewards give me gear that can help next time.

remove the punishment for getting bad groups or for sucking at pvp from the rewards (3-4 times the number of games to finish)

if I am not punished for being a bad player or getting a bad group I am happier to participate more.

(By reward I am referring to the weekly/ conquest)

 

next go ahead and punish those players who do not participate, who suicide instead of engaging (repeatedly) or who stealth and sit in a corner. Auto kick or simply give no reward.

 

last give those players topping the charts bonus rewards, like the ops, Role In Need. Bonus wz-1 & loot drop. This would even make the mvp on the loosing team get the extra reward.

[Darkestmonty]

32 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

Get rid of the different win vs lose reward, and replace it with an equal participation reward.

not participation in the sense of I stood in a corner for 12mins. But that I moved around, I threw my saber, used my shield. I might suck and get 0 kills and 20 deaths, but I tried.

Weekly rewards give me gear that can help next time.

remove the punishment for getting bad groups or for sucking at pvp from the rewards (3-4 times the number of games to finish)

if I am not punished for being a bad player or getting a bad group I am happier to participate more.

(By reward I am referring to the weekly/ conquest)

 

next go ahead and punish those players who do not participate, who suicide instead of engaging (repeatedly) or who stealth and sit in a corner. Auto kick or simply give no reward.

 

last give those players topping the charts bonus rewards, like the ops, Role In Need. Bonus wz-1 & loot drop. This would even make the mvp on the loosing team get the extra reward.

This is what I'm taking about. Reward people for playing and not just taking the fastest route to end the game or afking.

But no, the "I am a pure PvPer who plays for the joy of PvP and not rewards" crowd is clutching their pearls at the idea of daily and weekly advancement being based on participation and not win and loss only.

Edited March 31 by Darkestmonty

[Luciferior]

1 hour ago, Stradlin said:

 

Lots of different people with different more or less overlapping motivations do pvp.  There are lots of people who enjoy GSF/Ground PvP and will queue up purely for the sake of it. They might even be completely detached from rest of the game around it. Like I know a good number of gsf pilots who see entire SWTOR as a waiting lobby for GSF, nothing more.

There are lots of people driven by conq farming and the certain satisfaction in taking  what is the most efficient path  this regard.(Tackling all of the various frontloaded content available in game, which among other things includes  pvp, gsf and arena  weekly. )

Lots of people are some sort of a mixture of these two.

Ultimately, both groups are prolly pretty large and benefit from one another a great deal. Since all are fishes swimming  in the same queuepool.  As game is getting quieter, all multiplayer aspects are  gradually becoming more and more starved for people. 

 

 

I am of a different mindset I do not believe personal gain should take precedence over the game mode's recovery and stability

Which is what Darkest is about

I am not against the idea of rewards for PvP for playing it but when gaining those rewards are more important to people then the health of the game mode and those same people are willing to continue sabotaging said game mode to achieve their personal gain then we have crossed a threshold where it has become nothing more than greed...

And that concept comes down to personal character to be about something more than just ones self which is a concept that seems to be foreign to alot of people on this forum

Lets be clear I am not some saint and I cannot claim to be yet even I have my limits when it comes to things

This game modes stability and recovery means more to me than the notion if I will complete my dailies/weeklies and whether or not I make progress for my conquest or galactic season track or farming tech fragments so I can trade them for oems/rpms

Granted those things are nice but they are not my sole reason for playing this game mode and just like premades they do not dictate whether or not I support this game mode 

If you or others care more about your conquest weeklies dailies or rewards that you can earn that is your choice and in the same breath those same folks are making it clear they value their own personal gain over the welfare of this game mode..

Imo that speaks to who people really are deep down as individuals and I highly take those same people are going to read my statement take a step back and think on what that really means...

They will likely ignore it and keep on doing what they want oblivious to that reality.

Even in my darkest and most foul moments whether I feel justified or not sabotaging others so I can get ahead is not something I can support ever...

Edited March 31 by Luciferior

[Darkestmonty]

11 minutes ago, Luciferior said:

I am of a different mindset I do not believe personal gain should take precedence over the game mode's recovery and stability

Which is what Darkest is about

I am not against the idea of rewards for PvP for playing it but when gaining those rewards are more important to people then the health of the game mode and those same people are willing to continue sabotaging said game mode to achieve their personal gain then we have crossed a threshold where it has become nothing more than greed...

And that concept comes down to personal character to be about something more than just ones self which is a concept that seems to be foreign to alot of people on this forum

Lets be clear I am not some saint and I cannot claim to be yet even I have my limits when it comes to things

This game modes stability and recovery means more to me than the notion if I will complete my dailies/weeklies and whether or not I make progress for my conquest or galactic season track or farming tech fragments so I can trade them for oems/rpms

Granted those things are nice but they are not my sole reason for playing this game mode and just like premades they do not dictate whether or not I support this game mode 

If you or others care more about your conquest weeklies dailies or rewards that you can earn that is your choice and in the same breath those same folks are making it clear they value their own personal gain over the welfare of this game mode..

Imo that speaks to who people really are deep down as individuals and I highly take those same people are going to read my statement take a step back and think on what that really means...

They will likely ignore it and keep on doing what they want oblivious to that reality.

recovery and stability of what, multiple people AFKing through games or ignoring objectives to lose games as fast as possible because that is the most efficient way to finish dailies and weeklies?

You do understand that people are currently queuing for PvP to stealth and AFK through the whole match to finish dailies and weeklies because of the current system of Win/Loss being the only thing that matters?

You want to preserve AFKing?

I want people to be rewarded for playing the game by allowing their dailies and weeklies to advance based on participation and not AFKing or ending the game as quickly as possible.

Please tell me how rewarding people for playing the game is going to destroy PvP while the current system of rewarding AFKers is preserving the stability of PvP.

Edited March 31 by Darkestmonty

[Argomemnon]

I get how some people are annoyed my non-pvp enjoy person can be on players who enjoy it. However for those is the back when doing a weekly you're lucky to get 1 win for the 12 matches, and you lose your way through arenas because they always seem to start 1 person short on your team that makes me hate it. I used to enjoy pvp as a casual but not it is such a blow out its just turning me into some who hates pvp and really at this point just complains about the 3 wins and 42 losses for the week. like why do I nearly have the weekly point cap done and still have 3 objectives to do?  This to be frank pisses me of that there is a better solution to this problem. It sure isn't being done for GSF, I never see R-4, Dxun, or gods groups going because as of right now they are over tuned. The rewards are not worth the headache of trying to complete them and hardly anyone ever sees the end of them just and elite few. I have no Idea why PVP would get special treatment and GSF IS PVP. if you want us to play give us incentive to do it and not hate it. I swear it will make the player base happier. People who atleast think they have a chance to win will gladly join in the hopes of winning if they feel like they are always on the losing team what is the point of even trying and now you have a cynical person who is stuck doing content they now don't like and other people are now miserable too. This needs to be promptly spoken about. I'd gladly and freely offer help on ways to accomplish this.

Adding an objective to WZ or getting x amount of kills in arenas would be a great start

Capturing x satellites in GSF or Killing x amount of people in a match

WIn x GSF matches

Get x medals in matches

 

I really don't think that this is that hard to implement somehow going forward at all.

[VegaMist]

I wonder what server you're on to get that ratio. I'm on SS and get on average 3 wins and 3 losses per weekly, regardless if I'm queuing as a solo or a duo. I can of course get lucky with 4 wins in a row, or unlucky and lose my way to weekly, but normally it's been 3/3 for a while now. I'm talking WZs only since that's the only PVP mode I'm currently participating in.

[FrontLineFodder]

2 hours ago, Argomemnon said:

I get how some people are annoyed my non-pvp enjoy person can be on players who enjoy it. However for those is the back when doing a weekly you're lucky to get 1 win for the 12 matches, and you lose your way through arenas because they always seem to start 1 person short on your team that makes me hate it.

 

5 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

I wonder what server you're on to get that ratio. I'm on SS and get on average 3 wins and 3 losses per weekly, regardless if I'm queuing as a solo or a duo. I can of course get lucky with 4 wins in a row, or unlucky and lose my way to weekly, but normally it's been 3/3 for a while now. I'm talking WZs only since that's the only PVP mode I'm currently participating in.

This is what I am talking about. Stop punishing players for not being the best or getting bad groups.

Punish players for not participating.

 

Medals are not the way to score, as a bad player I can join GSF and warzone matches and get 0 medals (occasionally I do score a medal, but it's not gaurenteed), this is not because I stand around stealthed, but because I am not the best player in these modes.

Because I am punished for playing these modes, I don't play them. because I don't play them I will not improve.

 

(refer to my previous post, When I talk about being punished, I refer to the 3x or 4x number of matches I need to complete to get the weekly)

[VegaMist]

3 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

Medals are not the way to score, as a bad player I can join GSF and warzone matches and get 0 medals (occasionally I do score a medal, but it's not gaurenteed), this is not because I stand around stealthed, but because I am not the best player in these modes.

Well, number of kills is no way to score either since Healer or Tank may get no kills in Arena, and low kills in WZs, yet they are instrumental to an overall victory. Also, chasing kills in WZs is detrimental to the mode itself (on most maps) since it's fulfilling the objective that counts the most. And in Arenas, 4 is the max number of total kills, but who gets it? Is it whoever dealt a killing blow, or the one who destroyed 95% of that player's health, so the last blow could have been dealt? At the end of the day, it's team effort anyway.

[VegaMist]

32 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

This is what I am talking about. Stop punishing players for not being the best or getting bad groups.

Not sure what you mean here. Punishing usually means either something is taken away from you or you're hurt in some way. I'm unaware of anything taken away from those who aren't good or a part of bad team. There is a penalty if you leave the match early, but that's a different story.

[FrontLineFodder]

15 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

Well, number of kills is no way to score either since Healer or Tank may get no kills in Arena, and low kills in WZs, yet they are instrumental to an overall victory. Also, chasing kills in WZs is detrimental to the mode itself (on most maps) since it's fulfilling the objective that counts the most. And in Arenas, 4 is the max number of total kills, but who gets it? Is it whoever dealt a killing blow, or the one who destroyed 95% of that player's health, so the last blow could have been dealt? At the end of the day, it's team effort anyway.

yes this is very true that it is a team effort

Though you can see Healer and Tank's contribution in the damage absorbed / reflected and healing given.

even as a bad player getting into the fray I absorb some of the damage (not the best value to the team but I need to feel good in some way)

as a player running away from the fight / steal thing I am not contributing (I don't play, so this isn't me)

 

stop this wins count as 3 or 4 and make all players play the same to get the weekly completions done.

If you love the game, and don't care about the conquest you may advocate for the weekly being 12 matches

if you love the game but also grind conquest you may advocate for the weekly being 4 matches, there is probably a balance.

 

on top of that, give players bonus rewards for being best damage, healer or tank, regardless of what team you were on (win or lose)

[FrontLineFodder]

Just now, VegaMist said:

Not sure what you mean here. Punishing usually means either something is taken away from you or you're hurt in some way. I'm unaware of anything taken away from those who aren't good or a part of bad team. There is a penalty if you leave the match early, but that's a different story.

punishment is having some players (lets say those who go in as pre-made groups to boost the odds of a win) only having to do 4 matches to obtain the weekly vs those who go in solo ending up having to do 12+ matches

[VegaMist]

1 minute ago, FrontLineFodder said:

yes this is very true that it is a team effort

Though you can see Healer and Tank's contribution in the damage absorbed / reflected and healing given.

even as a bad player getting into the fray I absorb some of the damage (not the best value to the team but I need to feel good in some way)

as a player running away from the fight / steal thing I am not contributing (I don't play, so this isn't me)

 

stop this wins count as 3 or 4 and make all players play the same to get the weekly completions done.

If you love the game, and don't care about the conquest you may advocate for the weekly being 12 matches

if you love the game but also grind conquest you may advocate for the weekly being 4 matches, there is probably a balance.

 

on top of that, give players bonus rewards for being best damage, healer or tank, regardless of what team you were on (win or lose)

So, that's what the medal's system is supposed to do. How effective it is is a different question (especially after they changed it and are still adjusting it for different maps). I don't think everything deserves a tangible reward if that's what you're talking about - we have so many items in the game right now that it's becoming a bit overwhelming as is (especially after addition of Fitted non-gear).

[VegaMist]

4 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

punishment is having some players (lets say those who go in as pre-made groups to boost the odds of a win) only having to do 4 matches to obtain the weekly vs those who go in solo ending up having to do 12+ matches

Did you read my post? I personally get the same ratio - 3 wins vs 3 losses - on average regardless whether I queue as a solo or duo. Some of those wins are against large premades (4+), so assumption that those premades can't be beat is factually incorrect. I personally believe that premades should be limited back to 4, as they were prior to ranked removal, but that's not what we are talking about here. Having to play more games than someone else is not a punishment, since you're no worse of at the end than you were at the beginning.

[FrontLineFodder]

15 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

Did you read my post? I personally get the same ratio - 3 wins vs 3 losses - on average regardless whether I queue as a solo or duo. Some of those wins are against large premades (4+), so assumption that those premades can't be beat is factually incorrect.

Anecdotal but whatever, that is your experience, not mine.

Also I never said can not be beat, I said to boost their odds of a win, and a Premade from a PvP clan will do that vs a random PUG group.

 

15 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

I personally believe that premades should be limited back to 4, as they were prior to ranked removal, but that's not what we are talking about here.

I do not play much PvP because of the punishment I experience completing objectives, so take this for whatever it is worth.

I don't agree here, if an ace PvP clan wants to go in with an 8 man pre-made group in voice chat for communications, more power to them.

As you said it is a team effort and they are a team.

 

15 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

Having to play more games than someone else is not a punishment, since you're no worse of at the end than you were at the beginning.

I disagree. for me it is a barrier to entry. my experience is I have to grind through almost every match to complete the objective, if matches don't pop and I get to the weekly reset with 11/12, all that weeks effort is not rewarded.

Now it wouldn't be punishment if EVERY player had to complete 12 matches, but to me, currently with the wins count as 3 or 4,  it is.

 

Edited April 1 by FrontLineFodder