Who is the most responsible for removing ranked?

[TheOverMind-]

Is it Rob Denton or developpers? If it's developpers can we have the name(s)? There is no threat, no worries. If I want to adress my self to the only one or those responsibles I won't take the path from the bottom, I go directly on the main ressources. Thanks!

[Whykara]

It was removed with 7.2 (?) so before the Broadsword takeover. So it was not Rob Denton. It was probably a group decision, like most things are.

[TheOverMind-]

1 hour ago, Whykara said:

It was removed with 7.2 (?) so before the Broadsword takeover. So it was not Rob Denton. It was probably a group decision, like most things are.

Which group are we talking about? Developpers or else?

[ilubebi]

The developers. It was a "team" decision.

They don't read these forums. If they did, PVP wouldn't be in this state.

I do find it relatively nice that people still care enough to "try" to get their message across, however.

[Shenyu]

It was probably a decision made simply to try and consolidate the PVP community and get more pops. Any developer (i think, and hope) is aware of the consequences that something like removing ranked pvp from the game is bound to cause. I'm sure they remember the backlash when 8v8 Ranked was removed all those years ago.

Would love to see it come back, regardless. Maybe one day... in the utopian future of cross-server queues.

[Whykara]

20 hours ago, TheOverMind- said:

There is no threat, no worries.

I mean you do sound vaguely threatening.

[TheOverMind-]

9 hours ago, Whykara said:

I mean you do sound vaguely threatening.

I thought you were switching to chess. I shouldn't have to repeat my self from what I said. It was clear and firm. I don't want any of your replies or any excuses/reasons from this on this thread until now. Thank you.

Edited January 7 by TheOverMind-

[Nee-Elder]

12 hours ago, Shenyu said:

It was probably a decision made simply to try and consolidate the PVP community and get more pops.

Sort of , but rather than the OP  ( or anyone ) needing to speculate/guess , i figured maybe u guys/gals/gamers   might want to read actual official  historical intel  instead? --> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926287-follow-ups-on-pvp-in-72/

Edited January 7 by Nee-Elder

[TheOverMind-]

4 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

Sort of , but rather than the OP  ( or anyone ) needing to speculate/guess , i figured maybe u guys/gals/gamers   might want to read actual official  historical intel  instead? --> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926287-follow-ups-on-pvp-in-72/

If you want me to give my opinion and experience about what ''eric'' said...

 

Hey folks, 

We’re seeing a lot of chatter about the changes coming to PvP in both the PTS and PvP sub-forums. To consolidate conversations, I’m posting a thread here rather than responding to several threads with similar information. I’ll break down the main points that we’re seeing and address them accordingly. 

Why are we making these changes to PvP?

We talked about this during the 7.2 livestream, but I will reiterate the goals here. There are three main goals we want to achieve with this revamp: 

• Create a positive and engaging PvP experience for all players

- By creating a positive and engaging PvP experience for all players for making these changes, eric and developpers created a negative and big one for removing ranked. Why? Since the season 8 or 9 I was struggling to reach the goal which is getting into the best place I could. I wasn't motivated enough to get gold or platinum at this time and took a break for few years later. When I came back I wasn't prepared and skilled enough to face ranked because I'm a solo stubborn and competitive person so I made the decision to face the wall by my own. I dealt with toxic behaviors for years and it was fine to me yes and no at the same time but I kept struggling/suffering/enduring to reach my goal which is what I wanted because it was my motivation. Each time I was fighting was creating an improved and positive experience against skilled players. Small one but still there, indeed each day fighting was a little gain of PvP skills. Now that you removed ranked. My chances of getting improved was reduced enough to stop any progress almost to 0. When I meet new comers from pvp I got no challenges, it's boring because by now I have more experience over these players and this is a normal situation. When I meet a group of more than 4 person, it's not a challenge anymore, It's a question of few seconds before I die. too much is too much eh? So when you say positive PvP experience I'm desperate to find one, I can get one but this is seriously and dramastically not as often as it was before.

• Increase the overall participation and quality of PvP matches 

- Quality of  ''serious competition'' was way WAY reduced due to these changes just as I said in the text above.

• Offer new incentives that benefit everyone who participates in PvP

- No! This is a lie, these incentives doesn't befenit to me and many serious/stubborn players like me that does think as I do.

With these goals in mind, this is why we moved to the PvP Revamp as you know it. Which includes the new PvP seasonal structure, queues being condensed into 8v8 (Warzones) and 4v4 (Arenas), and the rest of the changes we have been discussing.

Why not keep some form of the Leaderboards active? 

This is a good question and there is a lot that went into this decision so let me talk you through it.

First, a big one, Combat Styles! Our Ranked Leaderboards were built to pretty explicitly take your class into account, hence why it was organized (and rewards even) were based on Class. That got thrown for a big loop in 7.0 as now you could have more than one "class" (now Combat Style) and change between them. This would have meant even just for the leaderboards to continue as is, would have taken a large rewrite to how we handled player data.

Second, the leaderboards did not help in creating a positive environment. We absolutely can attribute quite a bit of this to the top 96 rewards as there was incentive for breaking into the top 3 of each class. However, even with that the leaderboards were very frequently used as a method of harassment against other players. These behaviors led to violations of our Terms of Service, harassment and spam being directed to both players and support staff, and required a substantial amount of moderation and investigation.

- A good question is why did you implement the ranked pvp if now you decide to take it back after all the decisions that have been made, I'm geniunely surprised and discouraged that no one of you developpers didn't think even one second if you added a more competing situations into this game it would bring even more negative behaviors? If you have thought about it we ''PvPers'' wouldn't be in this situation right now. Sometimes it sounds like if you were shaking people's mind just as if it was playing with toys. You're going to think and say to yourself it's a game and it's our buisness so we make money and you got 0 control of it so backoff pal? I can agree and deal with that. Yes.. but people are here to have fun and pay for it? Right? You're here to make money because it's a buiness. Howmany subscribes did you lose since you removed ranked? I'm not sure you can say anything about it but I'm pretty sure you lost a significant number of your money/subscribers.

These all led to our decision to no longer support leaderboards. Now, with that said we very much understand that being able to flex and compete is a cornerstone of PvP. That is what we are leaning into the Battle Record for, as a way for players to track and share their stats.

The competitive nature of PvP 

PvP on any level is naturally competitive as is implied in its own name, Player vs Player. Due to that competition there are always going to be things that happen that aren’t entirely positive (and not entirely negative). Especially in situations where there are questions of teammates skill or intentions, or just some good ole “smack talking.” We get it. However, our own supporting PvP systems and environment should do everything they can to encourage positive play (lies again). The revamp allows us the opportunity to invite more players to participate in PvP while removing sources that generated negative behaviors such as the leaderboards and even PvP flags. 

-Tell me how people will get into your game after all the bad critics they have against PvP? If you put ranked back there would be less skilled players into warzones/4v4 arena to bully/destroy/gank people for their own fun. Several people have made bad stream/twitch videos and comments about pvp since months and now as I can see there's a lot of complains about people not having fun due to premades that run 365 days per year the same cataclysmic rotation of destroying's mind of unexperienced players. WoW is toxic too but they managed to keep their ranked pvp. Why wouldn't you do the same? They are bigger yes but older too and I didn't find any pvp ranked removal of their part after all the toxic behaviors. Also why new comers aren't able to make decisions as same way as I do? Because they want everything easier to reach the ''fun content of the game'' and put less energy/efforts and this is equal of removing major contents of the game and destroying the pillar of swtor.

With that in mind I want to end on an important note. This is Season ONE of the PvP revamp. We know it won’t be perfect but that is always the benefit of a live service. It gives us the opportunity to read feedback, see player data, and more to continue to improve the system, its rewards, and even consider additional features to support our goals for PvP. We hope you dive into this first season and we look forward to continuing the conversation on supporting and growing the PvP community going forward.

-eric

 You listened to fear/dissatisfaction/anger/sadness of new comers who doesn't do anything to build a harder level of pvp content and  doesn't play or support in the way that is different from others over veteran pvp players that are paying your game and salary since 2012, yes I'm now the one who complains and cry about it. All the time and money spent to give me the chance to get as far as most of the best players were and build my own experience plus having fun from this are now in vain. I'm not about to forget this.

Forgive me if my english is bad. I'm trying the best as I can.

 

Edited January 7 by TheOverMind-

[Darkestmonty]

All the toxic trash players that drove new players away are to blame.

[meddani]

remember, everytime the devs announce something for pvp, they're removing stuff

2.4 introduces arenas , 8v8 ranked was removed

7.2 introduces pvp season, ranked in general was removed

 

[septru]

2 hours ago, SoontirMorillo said:

If you deal with toxic behavior for years, that is not how it has to be. Leave the relationship. ... mmh... sorry... quit Ranked. Delete Ranked

I've experienced toxicity in regs. Can we delete regs? 🤡

[Whykara]

2 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

Did you gave Broadsword the chance to ban all toxic players from Regs?

If you ban all toxic pvpers there is no one left to pvp.

[meddani]

they should start fixing matchmaking always love 2 healers on the enemy side while i'm stuck with 4 dps

[Whykara]

2 hours ago, meddani said:

they should start fixing matchmaking always love 2 healers on the enemy side while i'm stuck with 4 dps

4 dps vs 2dps and 2 heals is actually tilted in favour of the dps in my opinion. Cc one heal, burst the other and you can win it in under 2 minutes. 

Edit: Provided that your dps are actually capable. Which is the bigger problem nowadays. 

Edited January 7 by Whykara

[TheOverMind-]

8 hours ago, SoontirMorillo said:

Some people are so brainwashed in thinking, that this is the default setting, that they honestly argue in favour for returning Ranked, despite making those statements.

If you deal with toxic behavior for years, that is not how it has to be. Leave the relationship. ... mmh... sorry... quit Ranked. Delete Ranked, Report all toxic players. Ban all toxic players. THAT is how you deal with it for years.

And that is what the Developers finally did. Get rid of all of them.

You being in this thread arguing for Ranked is nothing else than an example of Stockholm Syndrome. You don't NEED toxic behaviour to get better, to be motivated to get better. This is a YOU-problem. Seriously, how can you tell the world, that you were abused for years,... and follow up with "i want that back"?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you find the motivation to fight 1v4 in a Ranked enviornment against better players, and now struggle with a 1v4 in a non Ranked enviornment and will just roll over and die 

this is a YOU-problem.

You need to seriously question yourself on how you did form this opinion on this topic.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your whole post is an argument in favour of the Devs decision to abolish Ranked. They saved you. Even if you don't realize, that you needed to be saved.

When I was young I had to deal with what's on the table. When you say It's not how it has to be, this isn't you to decide what should be and what shouldn't. You're pointing finger at me like I was the only problem on the whole game but you still don't face the problem itself, you dodge it like a scared crow flying away from the noise. The problem you seek is clearly developper's decision/idea that have been brought into the game and NOT me. Also they didn't save me I really don't know where the hell are you going with this. Like I said several time I am the one who wanted to take this suffering path and I'm the only one responsible of it. Call me masochist I don't care. You DO not have the right and the goals to tell me what should be better or not for me.

Moreover, the result of banning ALL toxic players will be not only be even worst but will result of dramastic lost of subscribes and increase a lot of bad criticism against the game. It will be even more toxic like you could ever encounter. This is my prediction. Is it viable, I don't know? Toxic behaviors are in ALL games and can never be stopped despite what you say.

A good question now is what's the difference in statistics between the lost of subscribes and the gain of subscribes since the removal of ranked. If it's better since the removal that means developper's decision was RIGHT for them. They will benefit of it. If it's not the case then it means YOU have been in the BAD POSITION and were in the WRONG PLACE THE WHOLE TIME with developpers. Which is something I'm pretty sure they won't never talk due to shame and clueless incompetant skills of making decisions. I wouldn't be surprised because they already regret bringing ranked. Nice whipe hitting isn't it? Eh?

5 hours ago, SoontirMorillo said:

And the problem is... ?

The problem will be legitimately be the way you behave who brought the real death of this game. End of pleading.

 

 

Overall even if I had 4 person on me in 4v4 that means I was totally bad and need to be placed were I was. I also was very toxic and I deserved very very well what I did.

Edited January 7 by TheOverMind-

[TrixxieTriss]

19 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

Uncontrolled toxicity led to the death of Ranked. Uncontrolled toxicity will lead to the death of Regs too. If players refuse to use the only instrument they have to combat that, it IS their own fault. If one toxic player is reported every single game, from every single teammate and enemy, every single day, every single week... he WILL get banned. And this banned player will not be the reason that a newbie thinks "This harassment is not worth it, i stay in PvE.".

That doesn’t happen. BioSword make reporting toxic behaviours in PvP difficult & the process has been broken for several years. Why do you think there is a seperate report thread on how to report cheating or other bad behaviours in this section? It’s because the reporting system doesn’t work. Not only that, but the email they refer to in that thread is never read or if it is, they ignore it. Honestly, if you were a real pvper & not just trolling this thread, you would already know all of this. 

[Whykara]

1 minute ago, SoontirMorillo said:

Don't you think, it is more likely when we assume if all toxic pvper will get banned, that a new generatrion of pvpers while rise and try this game mode instead of it being dead for all eternity? Because that is what i think.

No lmao. If you ban toxic players, they either reappear with different accounts or get replaced by other toxic players. That's how online games work. Or they simply leave and no one replaces them, contributing to the death of pvp. If no one queues, there is no pvp. This game has been struggling with a declining population for years now. It is dying, we all know that, it's just a question of how fast it is dying. The mystical "new generation of players" simply does not exist. The influx of new players most definitely is below replacement rate.

6 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

Do you really want to defend the stance that only toxic players are left in pvp right now?

My post was obviously hyperbolical. Of course not every single player is toxic. Although I'd probably say that most PvP players have been toxic at least once in their career. Me included. Toxicity varies from server to server, and the server I'm most active on fortunately has quite a low toxicity rate. I'm playing on Tulak Hord. Darth Malgus for example has a lot more toxic players to offer. I've never set foot on an American server, but I guess Star Forge is the worst in terms of toxicity. 

So to come back to your point, Tulak Hord is quite friendly and still only has a limited player base in PvP. It's healthy during the seasons, but off-season the waits get longer. By your logic PvP should be thriving on TH. The reason it is not is because this game simply lacks players.

So yes, you are correct that regs will eventually die too. But not because of toxicity.

[ilubebi]

59 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

Uncontrolled toxicity led to the death of Ranked. Uncontrolled toxicity will lead to the death of Regs too. If players refuse to use the only instrument they have to combat that, it IS their own fault. If one toxic player is reported every single game, from every single teammate and enemy, every single day, every single week... he WILL get banned. And this banned player will not be the reason that a newbie thinks "This harassment is not worth it, i stay in PvE.".

This thread asking about who is responsible for removing Ranked is a joke. The answer is players. Every single player, who did not report toxicity, every single game, every single day, every single week, every single month, every single season, every single year was the reason, that every single player who wanted to try Ranked, quitted after a handful of games, because he got whispered at immediately.

And as long as you (universal "you") refuse to take responsibility for your own actions and instead accuse and search for someone else who should be at fault instead of yourself, it is fully clear that you learned nothing about the death of Ranked in this game.

The Ranked players are responsible for the death of Ranked. It IS simple as that. They prevented for years the influx of new players, who could have saved the downfall. Because no developer in his right mind, would expand or put money into a game mode, which basically nobody plays.

If you want to know who failed Ranked just look into the Solo Ranked Rating list from the last 5 years. The names stand there. Start with No. 1 and go down.

They all saw the decay deteriorate... year for year... and they did not react. They all knew they needed new players and at the same time they harassed every single one of them right out of Ranked and even the game.

So yes... start with No.1 and go down the list.

 

They don't even ban players who tell others to "kill themselves" and make extra characters to do so. They close reports, and forum posts, regarding harassment.

I agree with some of what you said, but as far as harassment and toxicity is concerned, that's the cornerstone of SWTOR PVP. It isn't going anywhere.

[ilubebi]

8 hours ago, septru said:

I've experienced toxicity in regs. Can we delete regs? 🤡

We all know this is coming. +1

[Whykara]

3 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

If they don't ban players who tell others to "kill themselves", they totally will if 100 protests will find the way onto their desks every day.

Meanwhile at the community service office:

[TheOverMind-]

2 hours ago, SoontirMorillo said:

Uncontrolled toxicity led to the death of Ranked. Uncontrolled toxicity will lead to the death of Regs too. If players refuse to use the only instrument they have to combat that, it IS their own fault. If one toxic player is reported every single game, from every single teammate and enemy, every single day, every single week... he WILL get banned. And this banned player will not be the reason that a newbie thinks "This harassment is not worth it, i stay in PvE.".

This thread asking about who is responsible for removing Ranked is a joke. The answer is players. Every single player, who did not report toxicity, every single game, every single day, every single week, every single month, every single season, every single year was the reason, that every single player who wanted to try Ranked, quitted after a handful of games, because he got whispered at immediately.

And as long as you (universal "you") refuse to take responsibility for your own actions and instead accuse and search for someone else who should be at fault instead of yourself, it is fully clear that you learned nothing about the death of Ranked in this game.

The Ranked players are responsible for the death of Ranked. It IS simple as that. They prevented for years the influx of new players, who could have saved the downfall. Because no developer in his right mind, would expand or put money into a game mode, which basically nobody plays.

If you want to know who failed Ranked just look into the Solo Ranked Rating list from the last 5 years. The names stand there. Start with No. 1 and go down.

They all saw the decay deteriorate... year for year... and they did not react. They all knew they needed new players and at the same time they harassed every single one of them right out of Ranked and even the game.

So yes... start with No.1 and go down the list.

First I'm not brainwashed, the thread is not a joke and I find your reply disrespectful for saying that when you don't CAREFULLY READ my comments just as Whykara. I don't want to repeat my self like I did overall my replies. You really seems to dream a lot thinking about reporting everyone would resolve all problems all toxic behaviors all the time all days because even in real life you can't stop people bullying each other for what they have to say to make understand some clear statements. it really doesn't work that way and this is the same thing as we are talking here.

• Uncontrolled toxicity will lead to the death of Regs too

-12 years and regs are still there. BECAREFULL WHAT YOU WISH AND THIS IS A STATEMENT FOR EVERYONE WHO DARE DESTROYING PVP EVEN MORE! I don't think you want this. Seriously not. I don't even know how I could be more serious about this. Words aren't enough here. If you dare to preach for it you don't even know howmuch the consequences there will be. MORE THAN JUST DESTROYING A GAME. Mark my words!!!!

 

 

 

[sharpenedstick]

Ranked has suffered throughout the years by the same poor and aimless development characteristic of EAware's tenure (and almost certain to continue under Biosword, since they left all the same time-serving devs in place).

The matchmaker is horrible, and they have no plans to fix it.

They were largely unable to prevent win-trading.

Class balance is poor. Balance passes are rare and generally not effective.

They couldn't figure out how to make ranked 8's work, so they introduced arenas. Arenas were not fun, which is born out by the fact that now ranked is gone and players can preferentially queue, WZ pops are common but arena pops take a long time (because people aren't queueing for them).

Biosword doesn't even pretend they are going to put any dev resources into pvp or gsf.

 

[supertimtaf]

I think that anyone who believes that they removed Ranked purely because of the toxic scene and demands of less skilled players is a complete fool :')

Ranked became more and more of a niche the further seasons got out. The biggest downfall was clearly S8 with almost two years of unbalanced mess leading to many purely leaving the game at the end of it when the rewards where also sub-par just like S7. Biosword is a company with... Let's face it, very limited ressources.

They hire artists for cash shop items, and struggles to release anything else. It's why we don't have tons of different gear sets that looks different, because they have limited ressources to allocate to any rewards that doesn't guarantee a permanent player engagement (galactic seasons) or brings in immediate income (cartel market).

Ranked was just not one of those modes anymore, with engagement dropping low and there needing to be new rewards everytime. So they cut it short. Now the real question is "Was engagement low because of players disinterest or because they failed to deliver on a decent ranked experience with good, interesting rewards and proper balancing". I think that we all know what it was, and toxicity had nothing to do with it because some warzone overlords are just as toxic  

Anyway, it's not like we will get ranked back one day. At least, not while the game is falling down more and more with slower content release due to less and less dev ressources. One could think that it's simple math. Invest more in game, get more players and more money. And yet it seems so hard for some suits to understand  

[Whykara]

45 minutes ago, supertimtaf said:

Ranked became more and more of a niche the further seasons got out.

This. The truth is that nobody played ranked anymore and axing it was the logical choice. The work that went into ranked seasons now goes into PvP seasons and reaches a broader audience. We can debate the reasons why nobody played it anymore (Bioware's decade-long neglect of PvP...), but we can't deny that at the end there were like 12 individual players in ranked. That's also why win trading even worked, because everyone knew each other. And once someone new dared to queue ranked, they were bullied out. Toxicity was a symptom, not the cause.

Edited January 8 by Whykara