Pvp Premade group issues

[Nee-Elder]

20 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

. snipers are relatively rare on SF arenas.

As someone who still tries to bring in my sniper ( just cuz it's so fun/unique style to play imo )  strictly  SOLO queue'ing , what if  we were given also given a toggle but timed (temporary) *stealth*  which would just allow  snipers  room to setup a position/perch....  Might help to balance things better or no  too OP?

[krackcommando]

1 hour ago, Nee-Elder said:

As someone who still tries to bring in my sniper ( just cuz it's so fun/unique style to play imo )  strictly  SOLO queue'ing , what if  we were given also given a toggle but timed (temporary) *stealth*  which would just allow  snipers  room to setup a position/perch....  Might help to balance things better or no  too OP?

imo no. they have two competitive (for current queues) specs. they're the highest skill floor, imo. but that's a good thing. I think the better players need a class to do more than parse on...at least solo.

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, Zunayson said:

For solo queue Biosword matchmaking could be worse. In all of my couple hundred arenas as a sniper in 7.0, the other sniper is like always on the other team

That only works if there are enough people in the queue with similar class & hidden ELO. The more people, the better the matchmaking.

As soon as you have low pop queues (like we are currently experiencing on SV), that goes out the window. The amount of stealth only solo queued arena teams vs all ranged or all Sorc/Sage combos can be extreme at times. 

I even played a few WZ’s yesterday that put ALL solo queued stealth’s on 1 team vs none on the other teams. Try playing Queshball or any Huttball or Voidstar against all stealth teams. It’s even worse when they only give you 3-5 players per side too. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[DougTheNoob]

3 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

As someone who still tries to bring in my sniper ( just cuz it's so fun/unique style to play imo )  strictly  SOLO queue'ing , what if  we were given also given a toggle but timed (temporary) *stealth*  which would just allow  snipers  room to setup a position/perch....  Might help to balance things better or no  too OP?

As a main sniper I have to say a stealth ability,even a temporary one, would make the class over tuned. I think sniper as a class is fine as it is atm. The spec Marksman is the problem. It needs a huge buff cos it is worse than arsenal merc atm and that says a lot cos arsenal is tr@sh. That been said, I wouldnt complaing if we got  something to mitigate dots a little bit more effectively,since its whats hurting snipers the most atm. a half decent madness sorc can destroy a sniper's hp bar without much effort.

I think mara needs a little buff and ap pt and madness sorc should get a minor nerf. And,ofc,the never ending skank tank problem. They need to go,but I dont see that happen,unfortunately.😕

[Nee-Elder]

2 hours ago, krackcommando said:

. they [Snipers] have two competitive (for current queues) specs.  they're the highest skill floor, imo. but that's a good thing.

Yep i hear ya....

26 minutes ago, DougTheNoob said:

As a main sniper I have to say a stealth ability,even a temporary one, would make the class over tuned.

.... But  i was just sorta thinking more  realistic-wise  it might be cool  mini-game for Snipers to like  hurry up with 30 second (example)  click of stealth  and go find a solid 'perch' before the other team can find them ( at the start  of each match i mean ) .

i guess  when i think Sniper in RL  i just always think  camo'd or hidden ,  until they get spotted  or traced or whatever. 

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Nee-Elder said:

Yep i hear ya....

.... But  i was just sorta thinking more  realistic-wise  it might be cool  mini-game for Snipers to like  hurry up with 30 second (example)  click of stealth  and go find a solid 'perch' before the other team can find them ( at the start  of each match i mean ) .

i guess  when i think Sniper in RL  i just always think  camo'd or hidden ,  until they get spotted  or traced or whatever. 

Stealth for snipers would be way to much. What they need is a way to cleanse dots & MM needs a damage Buff.

[krackcommando]

17 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Stealth for snipers would be way to much. What they need is a way to cleanse dots & MM needs a damage Buff.

they shaved some spike dmg off of arsenal for mobility and survivability by making forced marsh a baseline abil and making stealth scan a DR (although stealth can pretty easily time their burst/stun in the 2s difference between ability and cd). the weakness against dots and being somewhat similar weapon dmg specs made me think about this. it works enough that I'm willing to play the spec again. giving up whatever heal back ability I had to give up for forced march was a non-starter in 7.2.

[Nee-Elder]

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Stealth for snipers would be way to much.

Not sure if you read my earlier post , but  i wasn't ( and i'm not ) saying  Snipers should get  a  PERMA  stealth.

i was suggesting , to help with the beginning of  PVP matches ,  that Snipers be granted the option to have like a very brief  temporary  30 seconds ( arbitrary example ) of stealth clicky-with-long-cooldown ( say 2 minutes ) toward the primary purpose of allowing  us to  quickly go hide in our 'perch' , sorta like  RL  Snipers do  before battle to  camoflauge  themselves.

That's all i meant.

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

What they need is a way to cleanse dots

Agreed.

[Anhkriva]

6 hours ago, DougTheNoob said:

As a main sniper I have to say a stealth ability,even a temporary one, would make the class over tuned. I think sniper as a class is fine as it is atm. The spec Marksman is the problem. It needs a huge buff cos it is worse than arsenal merc atm and that says a lot cos arsenal is tr@sh. That been said, I wouldnt complaing if we got  something to mitigate dots a little bit more effectively,since its whats hurting snipers the most atm. a half decent madness sorc can destroy a sniper's hp bar without much effort.

I think mara needs a little buff and ap pt and madness sorc should get a minor nerf. And,ofc,the never ending skank tank problem. They need to go,but I dont see that happen,unfortunately.😕

Pt just got a nerf, didn't you notice? AP is in such a great place that I don't remember the last time I saw it in the arena. Practically no one plays this specialization. If I had a nerf it would be stealth lol, or at least the ability of these classes to stun. When I see 2-3 assassin dps on the opposing team, I already know exactly what the match will look like.

[TrixxieTriss]

8 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

Not sure if you read my earlier post , but  i wasn't ( and i'm not ) saying  Snipers should get  a  PERMA  stealth.

i was suggesting , to help with the beginning of  PVP matches ,  that Snipers be granted the option to have like a very brief  temporary  30 seconds ( arbitrary example ) of stealth clicky-with-long-cooldown ( say 2 minutes ) toward the primary purpose of allowing  us to  quickly go hide in our 'perch' , sorta like  RL  Snipers do  before battle to  camoflauge  themselves.

That's all i meant.

Agreed.

I did actually read it. And my response is the same. 

[DougTheNoob]

16 hours ago, Anhkriva said:

Pt just got a nerf, didn't you notice? AP is in such a great place that I don't remember the last time I saw it in the arena. Practically no one plays this specialization. If I had a nerf it would be stealth lol, or at least the ability of these classes to stun. When I see 2-3 assassin dps on the opposing team, I already know exactly what the match will look like.

Dont know which server u play,neither the time of the day,but I see AP PT all the time in both arena and wz in SS and SF. Yes,PT got a nerfed but imho wasnt enough. AP PT are still destroying everyone's hp super quick and they are way more durable since 7.0 . I know its tricky to balance this class cos if u do it wrong u can just make the class unplayable,but again,I think AP PT and Madness sorc are the only 2 specs that need  a small nerf, and mara as a class,marksman sniper and concealment operative need a buff,a small buff for the later tho. Also skanks like I said b4. They hit as a dps if the player is decent,and also can take a lot of dmg as a tank,so they get the best of the 2 worlds and I dont think its very fair. I dont think its that hard to solve the skank problem. just make tank specs unable to use dps mods and implants,and also make dps specs unable to use tank mods and implants.

About the mentioned stealth classes... I dont think they are over tuned at all. Sins are exactly what they supposed to be: a squish sneaky killer. If u take off their stuns,their play style wouldnt be possible. U mentioned 2-3 sins are a problem for u. Well, I kinda agree . But class stacking as a whole is an issue, but there isnt much that can be done about that. And then every class stacking is trouble. Did u ever face a double/triple AP ? A double/triple Engi ? A double/triple letha or Conce ? A double/triple Madness or Lightining ? They are as hard to fight against or even harder. But thats how pvp works on every MMO. Not much we can do. I only have a problem with premades with discord trying to double/triple staking a meta class nowdays against groups made randomly bcos they gain a huge advantage and most of the time the group of randoms skill lvl base is too small,which make the pvp matches boring for everyone imo.

Edited December 14, 2023 by DougTheNoob

[krackcommando]

52 minutes ago, DougTheNoob said:

If u take off their stuns,their play style wouldnt be possible.

you know...if half the classes/specs didn't have their hard stuns effectively yoinked, I'd begrudgingly be ok with this. but juggs, sins, and ops are in every. single. arena. so if you're not one of them, it really kinda...sticks out?

i wonder if BW thought the way to fix the economy was to remove half the CC from the game and then everyone will buy those really expensive seismic grenades on the GTN! 😒

 

[Nee-Elder]

13 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I did actually read it. And my response is the same. 

Yep i figured as much , since it didn't  SEEM like you had considered the most important word in my post: "temporary"  .    But no worries  cuz  tbqh  i was more so clarifying to provide context for  the hardcore PVP'ers and actual  Sniper mains. ( And also for any RL military types,  regarding my tangential point about  Snipers typically being  camo'd & hidden  upon their initial  'perch'  setup )

1 hour ago, krackcommando said:

i wonder if BW thought the way to fix the economy was to remove half the CC from the game and then everyone will buy those really expensive seismic grenades on the GTN!

That would be great  because  lowkey  i've been hording  stockpiles of  'nades  every week since like 2015 

[Anhkriva]

8 hours ago, DougTheNoob said:

Dont know which server u play,neither the time of the day,but I see AP PT all the time in both arena and wz in SS and SF. Yes,PT got a nerfed but imho wasnt enough. AP PT are still destroying everyone's hp super quick and they are way more durable since 7.0 . I know its tricky to balance this class cos if u do it wrong u can just make the class unplayable,but again,I think AP PT and Madness sorc are the only 2 specs that need  a small nerf, and mara as a class,marksman sniper and concealment operative need a buff,a small buff for the later tho. Also skanks like I said b4. They hit as a dps if the player is decent,and also can take a lot of dmg as a tank,so they get the best of the 2 worlds and I dont think its very fair. I dont think its that hard to solve the skank problem. just make tank specs unable to use dps mods and implants,and also make dps specs unable to use tank mods and implants.

About the mentioned stealth classes... I dont think they are over tuned at all. Sins are exactly what they supposed to be: a squish sneaky killer. If u take off their stuns,their play style wouldnt be possible. U mentioned 2-3 sins are a problem for u. Well, I kinda agree . But class stacking as a whole is an issue, but there isnt much that can be done about that. And then every class stacking is trouble. Did u ever face a double/triple AP ? A double/triple Engi ? A double/triple letha or Conce ? A double/triple Madness or Lightining ? They are as hard to fight against or even harder. But thats how pvp works on every MMO. Not much we can do. I only have a problem with premades with discord trying to double/triple staking a meta class nowdays against groups made randomly bcos they gain a huge advantage and most of the time the group of randoms skill lvl base is too small,which make the pvp matches boring for everyone imo.

I play on Malgus in the evenings, say 7-10 p.m., and like I said, I haven't seen any AP on arena in ages. It's possible that the lineup selection algorithm is purposely not allowing me to play with other APs so that I don't see how bad I am in comparison and so that I don't get my feelings hurt 😂.

Balancing is difficult, but it's a dev mistake to try to balance pvp and pve at the same time. Many skills should have different effects depending on the target, for example Thermal detonator dmg boost from Energy Burst could be +25% vs npc but only +15% against players. It would make balancing so much easier.

Are you saying that AP was less durable in the past? How is this possible? They're not even glass cannons, they're paper cannons at the moment, so before they were banned from wearing armor or what? The only DCD they have is Energy Shield and it is poor even compared to other DPS BH specs, not to mention other classes.

I have never played against 3 AP because of the reason mentioned above, but I have played against 3 sorc, juggs, merc, operative, pyros and in truth some of the sets are very strong but they all let you fight against them. You don't fight Sins, you're just chain-stunned as soon as they get to you. This is the only tactic that players playing this class know, and at the same time the only one that completely takes away the fun from the game, at least for me.

Marksman could definitely be stronger, I don't know about mara because my allergy to dual wielding prevents me from playing this class (I blame Drizzt for it).

[sithBracer]

8 hours ago, Anhkriva said:

I have never played against 3 AP because of the reason mentioned above, but I have played against 3 sorc, juggs, merc, operative, pyros and in truth some of the sets are very strong but they all let you fight against them. You don't fight Sins, you're just chain-stunned as soon as they get to you. This is the only tactic that players playing this class know, and at the same time the only one that completely takes away the fun from the game, at least for me.

Back when solo ranked was around I played against a few teams of 4 sins. Sometimes we beat them, sometimes we lost, it depended on player skill. You just have to play differently than you normally play.

For example, in one SR match, we had a PT, a merc and another sin (maybe an op I don't remember honestly) on our team and they had 3 sins and a jugg. Now, the standard way to play is to just go after the jugg. I didn't do that. I stayed in stealth and waited for them to open on our PT. The second I saw them, I used AoE taunt and then threw a grenade around him. All the sins came out of stealth, we killed them all and it was honestly the easiest SR match I ever played. The next around, I assumed they learned their lesson and would not try that again so I played the traditional way. I over estimated them of course since they did the same thing. We still won because our team was overall better, but it was razer close, it could've very easily gone the other way.

When playing against multiple sins in arena the team needs to be in sync, understand who the target will be and just stop them from attacking the target, once you do that and their burst is gone, they are nothing but a taunt/LS bot ready to easily pick off. If your team just yolo's and leaves you alone, then yes, you will die unless you are a merc because you are letting them do what they specialize in. It would be similar to complaining about 3 snipers sniping your melee from ledges. Yes you can't attack them, yes they will destroy you, yes it will be embarrassing because all 3 are doing what they specialize in with your melee in the most vulnerable position against them.

[meddani]

wtf am i reading "stealth for snipers"

as if a phase walk clone wasn't already enough lol. 

try playing deception against MM or engineering , half of your health is gone by the time you're in melee range

[krackcommando]

31 minutes ago, meddani said:

wtf am i reading "stealth for snipers"

as if a phase walk clone wasn't already enough lol. 

try playing any class against MM or engineering , half of your health is gone by the time you're in melee range

fixed that for ya.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, krackcommando said:

fixed that for ya.

Except maybe Fury Mara approaching with camo & predation 

[Nee-Elder]

3 hours ago, meddani said:

wtf am i reading "stealth for snipers"

oh plz with your  silly little melodrama  overreaction.   Learn to comprehend  CONTEXT  lol  smh

Like  anyone's forum fun suggestions  make any difference around here at all to  BioSword anyway. 

3 hours ago, meddani said:

as if a phase walk clone wasn't already enough

Again, totally misses  the very narrow specific purpose  for which i threw out  the timed stealth idea , which was simply a blip response to someone else's complaint about  ARENA "balance" and  then only really related to RL military camo/hidden perch  nuance type justification.

btw,  for the record  i despise that ridiculous Star TREK  'phase walk'   and never wanted it for Snipers either.   But hey i use the tools given, since  winning  matters more than  any meaningless  game shame from the PVPeanut Gallery.

3 hours ago, meddani said:

try playing deception [or any class] against MM or engineering , half of your health is gone by the time you're in melee range

Just tagteam them w/ teammate flanking  or just try  zigzag LOS'ing  first.

[TrixxieTriss]

4 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Just tagteam them w/ teammate flanking  or just try  zigzag LOS'ing  first

I’m not sure you actually understand the dynamics of Arena PvP 

[Nee-Elder]

1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I’m not sure you actually understand the dynamics of Arena PvP 

huh ?   i literally  just  PVP'd  vs. Sniper  last nite  and LOS'd  quite easily  weaving  thru  columns until i got into melee range.

What's the problem here?  Or are you just bored again and trying to poke me for kicks lol

[TrixxieTriss]

16 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

huh ?   i literally  just  PVP'd  vs. Sniper  last nite  and LOS'd  quite easily  weaving  thru  columns until i got into melee range.

What's the problem here?  Or are you just bored again and trying to poke me for kicks lol

So that you don’t think I’m picking on you, because I’m honestly not, I’ll let someone else answer.

[Nee-Elder]

Just now, TrixxieTriss said:

So that you don’t think I’m picking on you, because I’m honestly not, I’ll let someone else answer.

i couldn't care less  what you do  here on these forums  lol who cares

i've been PVP'ing  on & off since 2011 beta  and i have the  armors, titles, decos, etc.  to show for it .

Are you trying to imply that YOU of all people are somehow  trying to teach ME  with your condescending tone about PVP?!   Like, are you really trying to say  LOS'ing in Arenas is  somehow a bad tactic?!    Like, seriously  what  delusional  forum world are you living in right now?

i get  you're upset about the whole  new server Transfers  thing  but gosh this is bizarro world tonite.

[TrixxieTriss]

2 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i couldn't care less  what you do  here on these forums  lol who cares

i've been PVP'ing  on & off since 2011 beta  and i have the  armors, titles, decos, etc.  to show for it .

Are you trying to imply that YOU of all people are somehow  trying to teach ME  with your condescending tone about PVP?!   Like, are you really trying to say  LOS'ing in Arenas is  somehow a bad tactic?!    Like, seriously  what  delusional  forum world are you living in right now?

i get  you're upset about the whole  new server Transfers  thing  but gosh this is bizarro world tonite.

Ok, what do you do in Arena matches that don’t have as many obstacles to los behind as you approach? 

[Nee-Elder]

4 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Ok, what do you do in Arena matches that don’t have as many obstacles to los behind as you approach? 

First off,  i only need one obstacle to LOS  and if i get them chasing me out of their 'cover'  then i've already won.

Secondly,  i would hope my 3 teammates would  know better than to just  be sitting ducks for Snipers to have unfettered target practice.

Third, this is all very very obvious basic stuff here Trixxie.   Like seriously, i know  you want your post-count over 20k  & all , but  i'm baffled at why  you're trying to argue with me now about LOS'ing in Arenas.

Also baffled as to why my  throw away mention to Krack about  "stealth" at start , so Snipers could  go setup w/ more battle realism ,  has somehow turned into a forum federal case.   Sorta demonstrates how  truly dead these forums are nowadays tbqh.