Pvp Premade group issues

[Real_Zacious]

1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

You don’t seem to realise that the 2% is reversed here. I know you’ve played on & off over the years, so you may not have been here when BW chased off the majority of dedicated MMO players & replaced them with solo centric ones. These days, the majority aren’t MMO players, they are solo story players. 

Those of us who remained from that period saw our friends leave & our PvP (MMO) guilds dissolve from lack of members. We tried multiple times to reconstitute them, but once you’ve had that happen multiple times, you get sick of trying to make new guilds & friends that are dedicated to PvP. Honestly, it just got easier to queue solo & not worry about groups especially as the game keeps bleeding player numbers & the over all population has shrunk so much.

And that’s where the game is at. The game is mostly played by solo centric players now, not MMO centric players. That’s why increasing the premade sizes above 4 man was a ridiculous idea in the first place. All it does is encourage trolling against the solo pug players because the matchmaking can’t work properly with such a low player population. If they reduced the limit back to 4 man, the system would have a better chance of working. 

Look I don't disagree with you fully.  I know game now doesn't have same popularity and same population like it used to. Sure game now is a water downed version it was. So basically you want only 4 man arena grouped, and maybe 2 people per pre-made for regs? That be ok with me.. people would still q sync regs 😂 I mean my old guilds used to sometimes get all 8 of us.. 😂 

[TrixxieTriss]

1 minute ago, Real_Zacious said:

Look I don't disagree with you fully.  I know game now doesn't have same popularity and same population like it used to. Sure game now is a water downed version it was. So basically you want only 4 man arena grouped, and maybe 2 people per pre-made for regs? That be ok with me.. people would still q sync regs 😂 I mean my old guilds used to sometimes get all 8 of us.. 😂 

My old PvP guild used to queue sync WZ’s too so we’d be in the same match. Not to be on the same team (all though that did happen occasionally against other premades). We mostly queue sync’d to play against one another. Then we’d dual on our Guild Ship between matches. 

Like you said, the game is a watered down version of itself now. And BS aren’t dedicating resources to balancing classes or making the matchmaking system work. The PvP game is a shadow of what it used to be & it’s not really fun anymore.

Especially when you get large premades who form to roflstomp pugs or who don’t try & play the objectives. Which means if you’re stuck on their team, it’s usually a loss or you completely decimate the other team. There’s no middle ground anymore. And if youre stuck on the opposing pug team, you can’t be everywhere at once to counter a large organised pre-made. It doesn’t matter how good you are because player numbers are quality of there own. 

The issue is the population levels & the matchmaking can’t work properly in the current format. So BS have either disabled the MM or it’s severely broken. 
Because if it worked as the described, large premades would only be put against other large premades. But that doesn’t happen because of reasons xyz. 

The solution is to reduce WZ premade limits back to 4 man & then see if it improves. If it does, then great. But if it doesn’t, maybe they need to consider reducing them to 2 man or removing them entirely 🤷🏻‍♀️.

Arena is a different situation again. We all know that solo ranked was way more popular than group ranked. The only times group ranked was popular was when rewards were specifically added. And even then, you had people grouping only to get the rewards. So I don’t think making Arena premade only system would work. Solo ranked was also easier to get matchmaking to work. So if they really wanted to make changes to Arena, they should concentrate on making it solo only or forcing the matchmaking system to only put premade vs premade. 

[Real_Zacious]

15 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

My old PvP guild used to queue sync WZ’s too so we’d be in the same match. Not to be on the same team (all though that did happen occasionally against other premades). We mostly queue sync’d to play against one another. Then we’d dual on our Guild Ship between matches. 

Like you said, the game is a watered down version of itself now. And BS aren’t dedicating resources to balancing classes or making the matchmaking system work. The PvP game is a shadow of what it used to be & it’s not really fun anymore.

Especially when you get large premades who form to roflstomp pugs or who don’t try & play the objectives. Which means if you’re stuck on their team, it’s usually a loss or you completely decimate the other team. There’s no middle ground anymore. And if youre stuck on the opposing pug team, you can’t be everywhere at once to counter a large organised pre-made. It doesn’t matter how good you are because player numbers are quality of there own. 

The issue is the population levels & the matchmaking can’t work properly in the current format. So BS have either disabled the MM or it’s severely broken. 
Because if it worked as the described, large premades would only be put against other large premades. But that doesn’t happen because of reasons xyz. 

The solution is to reduce WZ premade limits back to 4 man & then see if it improves. If it does, then great. But if it doesn’t, maybe they need to consider reducing them to 2 man or removing them entirely 🤷🏻‍♀️.

Arena is a different situation again. We all know that solo ranked was way more popular than group ranked. The only times group ranked was popular was when rewards were specifically added. And even then, you had people grouping only to get the rewards. So I don’t think making Arena premade only system would work. Solo ranked was also easier to get matchmaking to work. So if they really wanted to make changes to Arena, they should concentrate on making it solo only or forcing the matchmaking system to only put premade vs premade. 

Wish we knew actually numbers playing pvp on peak hours.  Think this discussion could get more substance if we actually knew the number of pvp players playing even given night.  For instance if it's 100 then few premades wouldn't be terrible.. if it's only 50 ok still not terrible but could disrupt games. Meaning if it's more than 100 people maybe a compromise could work.  Idk snow balling.. just seems if a majority of people want solo instance pvp there should be a option if the numbers show alot of people group up more than solo.. be interesting to see the statistics to that. 

[TrixxieTriss]

10 minutes ago, Real_Zacious said:

Wish we knew actually numbers playing pvp on peak hours.  Think this discussion could get more substance if we actually knew the number of pvp players playing even given night.  For instance if it's 100 then few premades wouldn't be terrible.. if it's only 50 ok still not terrible but could disrupt games. Meaning if it's more than 100 people maybe a compromise could work.  Idk snow balling.. just seems if a majority of people want solo instance pvp there should be a option if the numbers show alot of people group up more than solo.. be interesting to see the statistics to that. 

You also have multiple servers & need to consider different time zones too. Because not everyone plays at night or lives in the same region to play in your night time. The game is 24hrs, so what ever system they go with, has to take into account those considerations. Designing a system that only works 3-5 hours in a 24 hr day is bad system for a game that runs 24 hrs. 

The other thing you might not have considered is the PvP brackets for people as they lvl up new characters. It suffers way worse from lower population because the devs have taken away most of the incentives to play PvP as you lvl up. What ever system they put in place for end game, needs to also work as people lvl or it brakes those queues too. 

As you can see, its not as simple as seeing what player numbers there are for the few hours of peak PvP at night. 

Edited February 7 by TrixxieTriss

[Real_Zacious]

1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

You also have multiple servers & need to consider different time zones too. Because not everyone plays at night or lives in the same region to play in your night time. The game is 24hrs, so what ever system they go with, has to take into account those considerations. Designing a system that only works 3-5 hours in a 24 hr day is bad system for a game that runs 24 hrs. 

The other thing you might not have considered is the PvP brackets for people as they lvl up new characters. It suffers way worse from lower population because the devs have taken away most of the incentives to play PvP as you lvl up. What ever system they put in place for end game, needs to also work as people lvl or it brakes those queues too. 

As you can see, its not as simple as seeing what player numbers there are for the few hours of peak PvP at night. 

Oh agree it's complicated forsure with new apac now as well a time deferential on rest of servers.. 

[Real_Zacious]

@TrixxieTriss substance matters with this discussion, think your intent on this is same as people who enjoy group play. It's a geninue discussion for players to enjoy the experience they deserve.  Unfortunately my wishes never get meant with this game.. but still draws me back because of my love for starwars as well this game.  Hopefully broad sword will be better than Eric Musco was.. 

Edited February 7 by Real_Zacious

[TrixxieTriss]

9 minutes ago, Real_Zacious said:

@TrixxieTriss substance matters with this discussion think your intent on this is same as people who enjoy group play. It's a geninue discussion for players to enjoy the experience they deserve.  Unfortunately my wishes never get meant with this game.. but still draws me back because of my love for starwars as well this game.  Hopefully broad sword will be better than Eric Musco was.. 

😂 Eric Musco is actually running things now. He’s second only to Keith. All the same devs from BW transferred to BS. So it’s business as usual. 

Back to what you were saying, players do deserve better. Especially paying players because we keep the lights on. I’m all for accommodating everyone when they can. But if the underlying issue is population & they don’t actively do anything to improve that, then they need to make the system work for a reduced population. 

By all means keep premades an option. But make some of the changes the players have been suggesting with reducing the sizes. And then either force the matchmaking to comply properly with putting premades against other premades or make a seperate queue just for premades. Then you give the paying players the agency to choose the format that want to play.

Edited February 7 by TrixxieTriss

[Real_Zacious]

18 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

😂 Eric Musco is actually running things now. 

No wonder we are screwed. 😂 

 

 

[Exly]

Knowing how many people are playing is only one part of the equation.  Another part is understanding why they are or aren't playing.

Alowing premade groups in the same queue as solo players has led me to stop pvping.  I stuck around for a while and complained about the issue, but eventually gave up complaining and playing pvp about two weeks into the last season.

People say that BS can't divide the queue because there aren't enough people doing pvp.  But if the reason people don't pvp is because they don't like it when the queues are united then that issue will need to be addressed if BS is concerned about the health of the game. 

If the majority of people playing the game wanted to form premade teams to pvp, then the current system would be popular and would be considered successful. 

Threads like this one are evidence that they are not that popular and are seen by many as a problem that needs to be solved.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Exly said:

Knowing how many people are playing is only one part of the equation.  Another part is understanding why they are or aren't playing.

Alowing premade groups in the same queue as solo players has led me to stop pvping.  I stuck around for a while and complained about the issue, but eventually gave up complaining and playing pvp about two weeks into the last season.

People say that BS can't divide the queue because there aren't enough people doing pvp.  But if the reason people don't pvp is because they don't like it when the queues are united then that issue will need to be addressed if BS is concerned about the health of the game. 

If the majority of people playing the game wanted to form premade teams to pvp, then the current system would be popular and would be considered successful. 

Threads like this one are evidence that they are not that popular and are seen by many as a problem that needs to be solved.

The devs could even do a trial run of a solo only queue for the length of the next pvp season to see what happens.

They can even say it’s a “feature of the season” to test what players prefer. You can then either choose to queue in the current mixed queue or in the solo only queue. But it’s an either or situation. You don’t get extra rewards or progression for doing both. 

Then let the season pan out & see what data they collect. If it brings back more players to PvP & more people queue solo, then it’s a success. If it makes no difference at all to numbers or more people keep queuing up for the normal mixed queues than the solo queues, then that’s a result too. 

I think that’s the only way they’ll ever understand what the players actually want. And what works to bring people back to PvP or drives them away. By running trial events during the seasons, they can make a change for that season & see if helps or hinders player participation & enjoyment. 

Edited February 8 by TrixxieTriss

[DragoslavRadanov]

Even if the MM wants to put premades together there's the issue of queue dodging since a number of the premades just want to "roflstomp pugs" as Trixxie put it. The MM can try it's best to match them up with each other, but that's not going to help when one premade can decline a match forming if they see another premade entering a match at the same time their pop goes off. They can't exactly disable the who/social window and giving them a lockout like ranked used to if a pop was declined probably won't help much since larger premades have to wait longer anyway, unless the lockout for declining is extremely punishing.

[TrixxieTriss]

2 hours ago, DragoslavRadanov said:

Even if the MM wants to put premades together there's the issue of queue dodging

They can make changes to the MM to force it to match against premades. Then also make the change that if the premade declines, the match doesn’t start & everyone goes back to the queue again. Once the declining premades realise this happens & they keep getting a deserter debuff, they’ll stop queue dodging. That’s how you adjust the behaviour instead of making it onerous on the rest of the players. 

[Beyrahl]

2 hours ago, DragoslavRadanov said:

Even if the MM wants to put premades together there's the issue of queue dodging since a number of the premades just want to "roflstomp pugs" as Trixxie put it. The MM can try it's best to match them up with each other, but that's not going to help when one premade can decline a match forming if they see another premade entering a match at the same time their pop goes off. They can't exactly disable the who/social window and giving them a lockout like ranked used to if a pop was declined probably won't help much since larger premades have to wait longer anyway, unless the lockout for declining is extremely punishing.

I'm glad people are finally accepting that this is a reality most times.