Big important flaw with the new GTN.

[Spikanor]

17 minutes ago, Toraak said:

This entire GTN change regardless of the bug is going to stop people from selling on the GTN. They should have left it as it was. It wasn't broken.

that bug is one of the big problems why people not going to use the new GTN anymore since you can list then all up in the PTS thread why people not are happy with it and what is missing and there not like about.

 

47 minutes ago, DWho said:

Still not seeing this as a major issue requiring immediate Dev intervention. It affects a vanishingly small portion of the game population. We're not talking about normal mats here, it's the high end ones. Quite honestly if you can't remember you listed something worth millions or even tens of millions in the last seven days, that's more on you than Broadsword.

left or right about it this can happing with all the items on the GTN now if its worth 2 credits or if its worth 3 bill credits the problem is still the same.

some people have explane that part all since if you have more then 20 chars can you then remember with char is selling what again since i cant do that at all.

i cant all remember good what for crew skill each char has since i got a lot of chars and forget sometime's again on what for char has now what for crew skill again since there all got diffrend one's.

 

the compleet point of this thread is more that this is something that can go wrong and can happing so why is it not better to make sure its not going to happing in the first place and to make it more safe.

there is also a item refundable there have add in the game since back then a lot of people have make the mistake to buy the wrong item from the vendors and cant get a refund from it anymore so thats the same thing there need to do now with the GTN before you end up getting that type problems.

[Darev]

I was really confused about this topic, and my first thought was the same as a few others...

"WHY would you possibly want to buy the same item you listed for sale previously?"

Well, flipping the item(s) is certainly valid.    If you have a stack of *ITEM X* for 50k and someone undercuts you, you can buy the cheaper ones and put them back up for 50k each.

However, and I don't know with the new system, HOW MANY are you going to buy to flip?   So,  you could, in theory, wind up buying items you  listed for sale.  In which case, not only are you out the listing fee (going to happen anyway), but also the tax on the item as the buyer.

 

And then whatever reason the OP is trying to articulate in the post above mine.

And, sorry @spikanor, I know english isn't your main language, but I do have issues understanding the points you often try to make.

[Gwena]

I'd have to agree that this doesn't seem like a huge issue (though a minor annoyance, yes). I mean, it's not like anyone would list their own items at exorbitant prices just so they could buy them and mess up the historical price data. I'd imagine that the fees would deter that sort of behavior.

[Darkestmonty]

I'm more worried about people posting an item for 100 credits and buying it back, then repeating this enough to drop the median price range of that item.

[Toraak]

3 hours ago, Spikanor said:

that bug is one of the big problems why people not going to use the new GTN anymore since you can list then all up in the PTS thread why people not are happy with it and what is missing and there not like about.

 

left or right about it this can happing with all the items on the GTN now if its worth 2 credits or if its worth 3 bill credits the problem is still the same.

some people have explane that part all since if you have more then 20 chars can you then remember with char is selling what again since i cant do that at all.

i cant all remember good what for crew skill each char has since i got a lot of chars and forget sometime's again on what for char has now what for crew skill again since there all got diffrend one's.

 

the compleet point of this thread is more that this is something that can go wrong and can happing so why is it not better to make sure its not going to happing in the first place and to make it more safe.

there is also a item refundable there have add in the game since back then a lot of people have make the mistake to buy the wrong item from the vendors and cant get a refund from it anymore so thats the same thing there need to do now with the GTN before you end up getting that type problems.

Sorry, but this bug isn't the reason. The reason this new GTN is a mess is your forced to buy the cheapest, and those that do nothing but GTN will always undercut anyone else. Meaning if your the type that just puts things on and checks back in a day or 2 while your playing the game, you won't sell anything.

 

Your bug of being able to buy your own items is not very important compared to that.

[Falensawino]

I just undercut my undercut.

[Spikanor]

13 hours ago, Toraak said:

Your bug of being able to buy your own items is not very important compared to that.

if its a bug then why have there not fix it when the update 7.4 was still on the PTS since people have found out this bug and also report it on the same day it was live on the PTS.

so why not fix it there since there know that bugs people have report on the PTS from any update or expension that when the update or expension go's to the live servers things only becomes more trouble some for then and its also more work there get when there got time to fix it there.

since the last couple of years the PTS has a bad reputation in this game since people have been asking since 6.0 all for what for reason we have a PTS if there ignore the bug reports there and feedback and the problems there have been report there and also active on the live servers when the expension or update go's live.

 

[WYMAS]

I Only Know, That For This Jedi! I Will Not Use The Auction House!  Not The Way It Is Now!

[ReveredDead]

I doubt they even care my friend. If Bioware proper didn't care then I can guarantee the former Bioware employees working on Swtor under "Broadsword" now don't care either. New name. Same garbage. 

[Thorzek]

23 hours ago, Spikanor said:

you know how the old GTN system work.

in the old GTN system you cant buy your own items you sell since you cant press the buy icon from your items since its grey so you cant press on it so it was blockt.

now its all gone and there have put all the items in there own price pool that means your items are also in the same price pool with the other players that sell the same item.

that means you can buy now the same items from the GTN you are selling look and the youtube clip that shows how i can buy my own companion gift from the GTN back that shows what in the old GTN you cant do.

the same with other toons that are selling stuff back on the old GTN you can see the sellers name that means you see your toons name also if its selling the same items if you are looking.

now there have remove the sellers name that means you can buy also your own toons items there are selling on the GTN.

You and Anaking are both selling a green crystal for 500 credits.

Old way:

You buy Anaking's crystal, he gets 500 (minus tax) credits, you get a green crystal.
Someone else buys your crystal, you get 500 (minus tax) credits.

New way:

You buy your own crystal.  You get 500 (minus tax) credits and a green crystal.
Someone else buys Anaking's crystal, he gets 500 (minus tax) credits.

There is literally no difference here.

This is only going to happen if you and Anaking are tied for the lowest price.  And it's actually a benefit if the items are stackable.  If I have 1000 Solid Resource Matrix on GTN but realize I need a couple hundred to craft I would have to cancel my entire stack, eat the lost deposit, and re-list them.  This way I can just buy the 8 that I need to make a quick item.

=====

They need to focus on things that really matter, like being able to shift+click from various windows into the GTN search.  Right now I cannot just click the mats needed to make a new green crystal, I have to type them out name by name.  This is a huge loss of function for dyslexic people or just crappy typers/spellers.  It's clear the people that write code or project manage the effort don't actually play this game and that's a damn shame because there are tons of actual gamees that have the skill required to write good code to enhance these kinds of things rather than break them.

[Spikanor]

5 minutes ago, Thorzek said:

They need to focus on things that really matter, like being able to shift+click from various windows into the GTN search.  Right now I cannot just click the mats needed to make a new green crystal, I have to type them out name by name.  This is a huge loss of function for dyslexic people or just crappy typers/spellers.  It's clear the people that write code or project manage the effort don't actually play this game and that's a damn shame because there are tons of actual gamees that have the skill required to write good code to enhance these kinds of things rather than break them.

you know the funny part of this is that i have no problem at all with it.

for me the shift + click is working fine so i have no problems at all with that at all.

that means you got the personal bug type so its only a problem what you have and maybe somebody else also but for me its not a problem since its working fine for me.

and here is something new also.

there can fix both of the problems at the same time so there not have to fix only one of the problems.

 

23 minutes ago, ReveredDead said:

I doubt they even care my friend. If Bioware proper didn't care then I can guarantee the former Bioware employees working on Swtor under "Broadsword" now don't care either. New name. Same garbage. 

i have report a lot of bugs this game has and most of the bugs i follow also are still not been fix at all and one of then is a 10 year old bug i follow so my hope there going to fix this is all gone for years. so what you are telling is old news for me.

[ReveredDead]

15 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

 

 

i have report a lot of bugs this game has and most of the bugs i follow also are still not been fix at all and one of then is a 10 year old bug i follow so my hope there going to fix this is all gone for years. so what you are telling is old news for me.

All the more reason to find a new game to play that's more worth your time and money. 

[DeannaVoyager]

4 hours ago, Thorzek said:

They need to focus on things that really matter, like being able to shift+click from various windows into the GTN search.  Right now I cannot just click the mats needed to make a new green crystal, I have to type them out name by name.  This is a huge loss of function for dyslexic people or just crappy typers/spellers.  It's clear the people that write code or project manage the effort don't actually play this game and that's a damn shame because there are tons of actual gamees that have the skill required to write good code to enhance these kinds of things rather than break them.

As Spikanor said, a lot of people here telling that because something isn't a problem for them personally, then it doesn't matter, which helps no-one.

Take a step back and see the bigger picture: all the issues people have (apart from the search issue) are related to one thing: the absence of the seller name. When people are telling someone who wants to see the seller name for "wrong reasons" that their reason isn't important, they are also giving conflicting messages to the devs. If the devs don't see enough reasons to fix this thing, they never will. You are fighting against your own cause too, not just Spikanor's. Adding the seller name wouldn't hurt anyone, but it would help a lot of people with diffferent issues.

And I totally agree on the last part of the message. The devs don't play the game, so they have no idea what the community needs or wants, and it's a shame. 

[Nee-Elder]

1 hour ago, DeannaVoyager said:

. The devs don't play the game, so they have no idea what the community needs or wants, and it's a shame. 

Just a quick FYI , from a former Dev  ( to give you some insight, if  it matters to you & others ) ....  The reason why  it seems like DEVS  "don't play their own game"  is because most  Devs/Coders  either don't have any time to play ( since they're busy  Coding & Designing & such on a deadline )  or  they don't have any motivation to play  since they already know all the secrets & code  behind their own game they just spent weeks/months designing.  This is why Devs  rely heavily on  QA Teams, to "play"  ( test ) the game for them.

There are some exceptions ( that prove the rule )  of course.   But typically when those few rare Devs  try to Livestream  themselves playing  vs. the public , well, it doesn't really go too good for the Devs  lol  cuz the gamers just dominate/embarrass them.

In short:  Coders code.  Players play.   ---And it's VERY hard and very rare to be both at once.

[sharpenedstick]

So when people say it seems like devs don't play their own game, it's because they don't play their own game. That is in no sense surprising. Most people when they clock off, don't spend a lot of time doing what they just had been.

The issue isn't that the devs code and the players play. The issue is that the players play and understand the player experience, so when devs are coding, they need to be coding to fix the player issues, and not their own pet projects. Devs are obsessed with their own little pet projects, instead of listening to what the players actually are telling them are the issues with games.

[Nee-Elder]

Just now, sharpenedstick said:

 The issue is that the players play and understand the player experience, so when devs are coding, they need to be coding to fix the player issues, and not their own pet projects.

Devs are obsessed with their own little pet projects, instead of listening to what the players actually are telling them are the issues with games.

Separate issue, but both very fair points ^ , yep.

This is also why the PTS  is so crucial  ( and imo  BioSword hasn't  incentivized  PTS participation enough with giving players a better sense of being listened to , rather than being  post-haste lame-duck  testers )  and also why  Community Managers'  job as liason to the Devs' ears is the hardest one of all.  ( sorry JackieKo !   )

[sharpenedstick]

Just now, Nee-Elder said:

Community Managers'  job as liason to the Devs' ears is the hardest one of all. 

I would never sign up to be the heat shield between the devs and the community, that's for sure.

But I think why many people are disappointed with the rotating roster of CM's over SWTOR's history is that any sort of dev communication has been sparse at best. When she herself listed her own job duties, it was mostly attempting to precis the forums for the devs. That's not community management, that's community reporting.

[DeannaVoyager]

1 hour ago, Nee-Elder said:

Just a quick FYI , from a former Dev  ( to give you some insight, if  it matters to you & others ) ....  The reason why  it seems like DEVS  "don't play their own game"  is because most  Devs/Coders  either don't have any time to play ( since they're busy  Coding & Designing & such on a deadline )  or  they don't have any motivation to play  since they already know all the secrets & code  behind their own game they just spent weeks/months designing.  This is why Devs  rely heavily on  QA Teams, to "play"  ( test ) the game for them.

There are some exceptions ( that prove the rule )  of course.   But typically when those few rare Devs  try to Livestream  themselves playing  vs. the public , well, it doesn't really go too good for the Devs  lol  cuz the gamers just dominate/embarrass them.

In short:  Coders code.  Players play.   ---And it's VERY hard and very rare to be both at once.

Yes, I get that they may not have time to play their own game, but maybe it should be part of the requirements, because they don't care about the PTS feedback and they clearly don't have a QA team to test it. If such team exists, they are not doing their job.

 

1 hour ago, sharpenedstick said:

Devs are obsessed with their own little pet projects, instead of listening to what the players actually are telling them are the issues with games.

This sums it up pretty well. 

[sharpenedstick]

5 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

This sums it up pretty well. 

Some of these pet projects can even be pretty cool. Combat Styles is a neat feature. I'd have been thrilled if it were in the game at launch. But was it worth years of dev time that could have gone to bug fixes, balance passes, QoL improvements or new content? No.

I doubt SWTOR's devs are much worse than other B-tier MMO game devs in a qualitative light. But they have had misaligned priorities for years, and it's gotten us to where we are today.

 

[Spikanor]

1 hour ago, Nee-Elder said:

This is also why the PTS  is so crucial  ( and imo  BioSword hasn't  incentivized  PTS participation enough with giving players a better sense of being listened to , rather than being  post-haste lame-duck  testers )  and also why  Community Managers'  job as liason to the Devs' ears is the hardest one of all.  ( sorry JackieKo !   )

if the PTS is so crucial for then why do's it feel more that its not that crucial at all.

the 7.4 update on the PTS was only 50% from the compleet update and the other 50% from the update has never been test at all.

the Cinematic Lighting has never been test at all on the PTS but still there launch it who knows its now cursing a lot of trouble with a lot of people.

and the other thing is if its crucial then why have we seen in the last couple of update's and expensions there compleet ignore the feedback.

the 7.0 with the new armor system feedback has been compleet ignore when there chance it 3 update's later to something the feedback form the PTS has told all.

same go's for the 6.X era and who knows how long it has been happing.

there was a reason back then in the 6.0 expension that people told whats the point to have a PTS server if there ingnore the feedback from it.

its the same now with the new GTN people have give feedback about also there see some problems with it there need to chance since it can curse some trouble on the live servers but there ignore it and you see what is happing people are not happy about it for a lot of reasons.

people that are not fan from undercuters in the first place see now there are right about it what is happing.

then you have people that see also like me that there is a problem that can curse a lot of trouble later on since 1 mistake is needed and you have a lot of problems later on.

[Thorzek]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:20 AM, Spikanor said:

for me the shift + click is working fine so i have no problems at all with that at all.

Shift click works fine from inventory and perhaps other places.  It doesn't work from crafting windows, sell windows, etc.  This is devastating when you have a dozen things you want to craft and each of them has 3-4 components you need to shop for.  It was already in the game and they broke it.

 

[Spikanor]

2 minutes ago, Thorzek said:

Shift click works fine from inventory and perhaps other places.  It doesn't work from crafting windows, sell windows, etc.  This is devastating when you have a dozen things you want to craft and each of them has 3-4 components you need to shop for.  It was already in the game and they broke it.

 

let me tell you this.

this problem you name has been broken all since there launch it on the PTS and it was also on the same first day been report so here is something you need to understand good.

there give notting about the Feedback we give about the PTS server since if we report bugs the new stuff has there not going to fix it and there let it stay also when it go's to the live servers.

so your bug has been report all since day one when it was on the PTS.

 

[Thorzek]

19 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

Just a quick FYI , from a former Dev  ( to give you some insight, if  it matters to you & others ) ....  The reason why  it seems like DEVS  "don't play their own game"  is because most  Devs/Coders  either don't have any time to play ( since they're busy  Coding & Designing & such on a deadline )  or  they don't have any motivation to play  since they already know all the secrets & code  behind their own game they just spent weeks/months designing.  This is why Devs  rely heavily on  QA Teams, to "play"  ( test ) the game for them.

Individual devs, sure.  But that's why you have dev projects and PM's.  THOSE people are responsible for properly defining the scope of what the new tool needs to do and making sure they end up in the finished products.  SOMEONE on that team needs to understand gameplay and ensure critical functions aren't lost.  How often does a company roll out a new UI or portal or tool and remove critical functions?  Can you imagine if Amazon put out a new app and you couldn't add something to your cart directly from your wish list?  Or if ESPN removed the menu that allows you to switch from Golf to NFL page and you had to type in the URL directly?

[Lord_Malganus]

This is why Devs rely heavily on  QA Teams, to "play"  ( test ) the game for them.

And which QA Teams is that exactly?

The players on the PST that are always totally ignored?

Or

The ones that don't officially exist?

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Lord_Malganus

[Char_Ell]

7 minutes ago, Lord_Malganus said:

And which QA Teams is that exactly?

The players on the PST that are always totally ignored?

Or

The ones that don't officially exist?

How did you determine SWTOR has a QA team that does not officially exist? 

Is it simply because changes you (and clearly others) don't like were made to SWTOR so you therefore concluded SWTOR doesn't have any QA people?