Concerning Griefers on Fleet

[sundancebill]

I hardly think that making you dismount  in an  area is 'nuclear'.  We do it hundreds of times a day on some planets while doing missions.

 

 

[DreadzKaiser]

Introducing a force dismount zone to the single most populated area in the game when other, player accessible options, exist is the very definition of a nuclear option: A massive over-solution to an issue that will almost certainly cause more outcry than it resolves.

 

Given how fleet chat usually is, I fully expect such a measure to result in MORE Griefing for RPers.

Edited November 21, 2023 by DreadzKaiser

[Vendettus]

Forced dismount, unless caused by combat, takes several seconds for it to even occur.  If a player is truly just moving from point a to point b and using the very center of the fleet to do it, then the timer there could accommodate that. But then, I almost never see people in that center space unless they are RPers or trying to grief them-- hardly what I would call the single most populated area in the game.

[DreadzKaiser]

have you ever been to the Rishi stronghold? instant forced dismounts exist.

and if it's not instant.........then it's not a "solution" now is it? they can still just drop a Bantha on you from above the rail, then just dash up the stairs to escape the dismount. repeat.

 

and none of this answers the main question: why can't you just go to another cantina? Like I said, not like mounts are required to grief RP sessions, anyone in the center area looking to grief is still gonna do it. Just not by parking main battle tanks on your barstool. Even if the dismount magically manages to not anger anyone, it's not actually resolving your problem and you are back to square 1.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by DreadzKaiser

[Spikanor]

8 hours ago, Vendettus said:

If a player is truly just moving from point a to point b and using the very center of the fleet to do it, then the timer there could accommodate that. But then, I almost never see people in that center space unless they are RPers or trying to grief them-- hardly what I would call the single most populated area in the game.

let me ask you this.

how do you know that its happing on all the 5 servers since all the 5 servers are compleet diffrend.

its the same with the griefers and the roleplayers on each server that is compleet diffrend on each server.

if the US servers is having a problem with roleplayers can do there roleplay since there have griefers and trolls.

who is telling this is also happing on the EU server also since you never look at all if its happing there also.

same with the fleet you not know what is happing on all the 5 servers at all.

on the EU server i play DM there are a lot of people in the center ring from the fleet and there are all using there mount's to move from there to point A to point B.

there always use the center ring to move to the other section if its not close by.

 

you all need to think really good about things before comming up with stupid idea's.

since we have 5 servers that are really active and are also compleet diffrend from each other with compleet diffrend things happing there.

what is happing in the US servers do's not mean its also happing in the EU servers.

same if things are happing in the EU servers do's not mean its happing also on the US servers

side note on this post: i count not the new server in it since its open for a short time so things like this are not happing at all in the new server since people are more bussy with level up and gearing up.

[DeannaVoyager]

There is only one fleet with all mission terminals and only one fleet chat, you need to be on fleet to have access to them. However there are several other cantinas all over the galaxy. If you can't share the fleet with the rest of the community, you should find an area where no-one can bother you with their normal gameplay. 
If you "need" to be on fleet cantina to be able to RP, it sounds like exhibition is a part of it. You want the audience or you wouldn't be there in the first place. 

But you are forgetting one basic rule of roleplay: you don't force your roleplay onto unwilling participants. Everyone else in the area is an unwilling participant. They would have every right to complain about you and demand a RP-free fleet, but most people are fine with sharing an area. Demanding forced unmount is forcing unwilling participants to your roleplay. How'd you think that would end? More or less griefers?

[Spikanor]

45 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

But you are forgetting one basic rule of roleplay: you don't force your roleplay onto unwilling participants. Everyone else in the area is an unwilling participant. They would have every right to complain about you and demand a RP-free fleet, but most people are fine with sharing an area. Demanding forced unmount is forcing unwilling participants to your roleplay. How'd you think that would end? More or less griefers?

what the RP people need to ask the griefers is for once why are there doing it since maybe there is a good reason why there are doing stuff like that against the RP communety's.

maybe there have start something in the past or so by telling you need to leave this place since we are RP here so you cant be here.

then i can understand good why people are trolling then more since if something like that has happing then there have creat there own problem in the first place.

or if some roleplaying guilds are using the general chat for there roleplay and other people not like that at all there using it is also asking for trouble you can get.

 

and now more about this thread i think this was a bad move from the OP since this can also become a new reason to troll then more with big mount's and emote's to other roleplaying guilds and give the RP community more a bad name then it maybe got all.  that means this thread can back fire to then also in the wrong way and make things more worse then there are now.

[VegaMist]

For all we know, you might be RP-ing at a table that has a mission associated with it. And the people you call "griefers" are just there talking to Lana (or whoever else involved in a mission) blissfully ignorant of your RP and your "immersion break down".

VIP area right above the cantina is much less populated (except during casino event), still on fleet, just a short elevator ride away from the main cantina floor, and immune to being jumped from above. Oh, and it has no missions associated with it.

[Toraak]

18 hours ago, sundancebill said:

We are not talking about the entire fleet. Just a few areas where people gather in numbers like the cantina and possibly the GTN  booths . 

I have great respect for anyone who role plays and griefing is childish. 

 

Doesn't matter. I cut through the cantina area to get to other parts of fleet because it's a shorter path. I shouldn't have to drive the long way or get dismounted because a couple of trolls are acting out.

 

Those of us that do not bother the roleplay community shouldn't lose a QoL just because a few people do not know how to behave,, and leave others to play the game how they like.

[DreadzKaiser]

43 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

For all we know, you might be RP-ing at a table that has a mission associated with it. And the people you call "griefers" are just there talking to Lana (or whoever else involved in a mission) blissfully ignorant of your RP and your "immersion break down".

VIP area right above the cantina is much less populated (except during casino event), still on fleet, just a short elevator ride away from the main cantina floor, and immune to being jumped from above. Oh, and it has no missions associated with it.

there is ALSO the cantinas in the operation ships of the fleet that see exactly 0 use

or the cantina in the cartel bazaar.

and best of all, a Fleet Stronghold with a cantina setup. where you actually CAN control who can enter and can even set some NPCs where you please.

 

there is no reasonable excuse for asking for a dismount option over using one of these.

[KianSri]

8 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

There is only one fleet with all mission terminals and only one fleet chat, you need to be on fleet to have access to them. However there are several other cantinas all over the galaxy. If you can't share the fleet with the rest of the community, you should find an area where no-one can bother you with their normal gameplay. 
If you "need" to be on fleet cantina to be able to RP, it sounds like exhibition is a part of it. You want the audience or you wouldn't be there in the first place. 

But you are forgetting one basic rule of roleplay: you don't force your roleplay onto unwilling participants. Everyone else in the area is an unwilling participant. They would have every right to complain about you and demand a RP-free fleet, but most people are fine with sharing an area. Demanding forced unmount is forcing unwilling participants to your roleplay. How'd you think that would end? More or less griefers?

a) Griefing is not 'normal' gameplay.

b) As I explained earlier, most people don't RP on the fleet so other people can see them. They go to the fleet cantina specifically because it is a natural hub where players congregate, and some of those are roleplayers. This is not unique to SWTOR. Main gameplay hubs are also main RP hubs. Additionally, from an in-character perspective, it makes sense for characters to gather there.

c) 'Everyone else is an unwilling participant' - by this logic, every player is an unwilling participant in every chat channel. Unless, of course, they use that handy little toggle button to turn off the chat channels they don't want to see, including the ones used for RP. Again, false equivalent. A chat channel you can totally ignore can't be compared to the physical and audible disruption of roleplay activities by trolls.

d) Forced unmount would not be 'forcing participants into roleplay'. There is no 'forced' interaction with the roleplayers happening in this scenario. What if nobody's roleplaying there when you zip through and get dismounted? How can that be considered forced into roleplay if there's no roleplay occurring?

All that said, I agree with the majority that forced dismount is not the answer here. It offers an only maybe solution at the expense of the rest of the community. But 'just go somewhere else' is not the answer either. Roleplayers have every right to be on the fleet the same as anyone else, their RP is overwhelmingly not disruptive (see point c), and it shouldn't be the majority of THAT community that is penalised for the actions of a few trolls. Because the problem is still the griefers, not the roleplayers.

[Darcmoon]

3 minutes ago, KianSri said:

a) Griefing is not 'normal' gameplay.

c) 'Everyone else is an unwilling participant' - by this logic, every player is an unwilling participant in every chat channel. Unless, of course, they use that handy little toggle button to turn off the chat channels they don't want to see, including the ones used for RP. Again, false equivalent. A chat channel you can totally ignore can't be compared to the physical and audible disruption of roleplay activities by trolls.

 

a). Griefing is kinda fluid in meaning.   What some people consider griefing others don’t, rightly or wrongly.  I have had people say I was griefing when I got to a daily quest item or mob before them. Granted, that was before shared tagging but still, that was normal gameplay and they were absolutely convinced I was griefing.   I eventually had to ignore them because they wouldn’t stop complaining about it in whispers.  
 

c) I don’t like turning off chat channels or the other ‘channels’ dealing with announcements and the like because I always forget to turn them back on.  Then I start missing boss emotes.  I’ll admit that I didn’t know that player emotes could be turned off other than by closing the chat box.   There have been more than a few times where players are emoting and making it hard to see fleet chat.   

[xxSHOONYxx]

Just grow a pair and stop being triggered by little things.
People used to be unable to use chat for days or banned if rpers started reporting them with that mob mentality.

If a few people keep trolling you then don't react and pretend you don't care and keep doing what you are doing, they are looking for a reaction from you and if they don't get it they get bored.
If its not troll and it's usual day to day fleet movement, then tough luck, find another place because fleet is a shared space not your sanctuary

[DeannaVoyager]

11 hours ago, KianSri said:

a) Griefing is not 'normal' gameplay.

If RP-people are calling other players who travel across the cantina on a mount griefers, then it definitely is normal gameplay. 

11 hours ago, KianSri said:

b) As I explained earlier, most people don't RP on the fleet so other people can see them. They go to the fleet cantina specifically because it is a natural hub where players congregate, and some of those are roleplayers. This is not unique to SWTOR. Main gameplay hubs are also main RP hubs. Additionally, from an in-character perspective, it makes sense for characters to gather there.

Other players go to the fleet for the same reason. But they aren't demanding roleplayers to get lost. The rest of us can share.

 

11 hours ago, KianSri said:

c) 'Everyone else is an unwilling participant' - by this logic, every player is an unwilling participant in every chat channel. Unless, of course, they use that handy little toggle button to turn off the chat channels they don't want to see, including the ones used for RP. Again, false equivalent. A chat channel you can totally ignore can't be compared to the physical and audible disruption of roleplay activities by trolls.

Yes, that logic is fine by me. If I get offended by what is being said in some chat, I can close the chat or go to a different planet. It's not my chat, it belongs to everyone.

And if you guys get offended by what happens on fleet when you are trying to RP, you can find a less crowded cantina. As DreadzKaizer above said, there are other cantina's on fleet too. 

 

11 hours ago, KianSri said:

d) Forced unmount would not be 'forcing participants into roleplay'. There is no 'forced' interaction with the roleplayers happening in this scenario. What if nobody's roleplaying there when you zip through and get dismounted? How can that be considered forced into roleplay if there's no roleplay occurring?

If there would be forced unmounting because RP players demanded it, it would count as forced interaction. 

 

11 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

Just grow a pair and stop being triggered by little things.
People used to be unable to use chat for days or banned if rpers started reporting them with that mob mentality.

If a few people keep trolling you then don't react and pretend you don't care and keep doing what you are doing, they are looking for a reaction from you and if they don't get it they get bored.
If its not troll and it's usual day to day fleet movement, then tough luck, find another place because fleet is a shared space not your sanctuary

Yeah, that's not cool. Squelching someone for no reason is griefing too, and if that happens, I have very little sympathy people who do that.

 

[Djalu]

I am only a recently returned player after a 10 year hiatus so I may be off the mark here as there is so much new stuff going on that I am still like a kid in a toy store with a no holds barred credit card. I have noticed on map there is an instance option and while I am not sure of how this would work DEV wise what if the fleet or anywhere for that matter had Instance 1-2 and RP. This way if the RPer's are being griefed in the RP instance then that is a reportable game situation.

As I mentioned only very recently returned so I could be off the mark and misunderstanding the instance deal, but if it is as I understand then it seems to me that would solve the issue at hand..

[SoyElSenado]

I have no idea what the solution to this, but dismounting in the circle isn’t it. I get that this is a problem, it affects non rpers too. The other night someone was griefing the rpers in the fleet by getting on and off a really loud mount, and it was so loud that it was blowing my ears out all the way up near the banks and even as far as the mailbox. If you dismount people in the inner circle they’ll just do the same things at the farthest point mounts are allowed. Griefers are gonna grief no matter what, you ultimately just have to rely on reporting them and adequate action being taken. I agree with a lot of the posts in here that draconian things like banning mounts and stuff is just going to make more people grief because it’s annoying and limits qol.

 

[Spikanor]

@SoyElSenado

dismounting in the circle is never the solution since you going hurt also the other normal players that do not grief or troll with the mounts.

if a small group is doing stuff like this why most the other normal players also get hurt by there actions.

i can tell you this now all.

if there do this on the fleet middle circle then you get more hate against the RP comminety from a lot of players that give no damm if there wane RP or not but this is going to fire back at then hard.

the fleet is for all type players.

what the RP comminety can do is something i have suggest all few post's back and that is this:

Quote

there is also the option that there record it and when there is somebody trolling then with a emote or mount there can send the clip and report him and at some point there learn there lessons i hope since there know somebody from the roleplay groups is recording it so there know trolling then means there get report with it.

thats the best solution for there problem.

 

[Char_Ell]

15 hours ago, Djalu said:

I am only a recently returned player after a 10 year hiatus so I may be off the mark here as there is so much new stuff going on that I am still like a kid in a toy store with a no holds barred credit card. I have noticed on map there is an instance option and while I am not sure of how this would work DEV wise what if the fleet or anywhere for that matter had Instance 1-2 and RP. This way if the RPer's are being griefed in the RP instance then that is a reportable game situation.

As I mentioned only very recently returned so I could be off the mark and misunderstanding the instance deal, but if it is as I understand then it seems to me that would solve the issue at hand..

The devs decided several years ago when they were preparing the most recent merge of servers that RP instances were not needed.  Please see my signature for the quote and time.  I think it's therefore unlikely the devs would create RP instances on the servers as a solution to this problem.

[casirabit]

On 11/20/2023 at 2:39 PM, Screaming_Ziva said:

But here is the big thing, you are now asking me to change my game play experience so you can have your RP game play experience.  You say that RPers are not being disruptive but, in reality, they are.  If I can't read fleet chat because their RP keeps scrolling up on my screen, that is the very definition of being disruptive.

Most RP I know do not use general chat for their RP, so they are not being disruptive.

[SteveTheCynic]

1 minute ago, casirabit said:

Most RP I know do not use general chat for their RP, so they are not being disruptive.

True, but on The Leviathan, they often use /say, which floods chat (and pops up in my cutscenes) any time I'm in a standard questing area like the Dealer's Den cantina (Coruscant) or Slippery Slopes cantina (Nar Shaddaa).

[Spikanor]

5 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

True, but on The Leviathan, they often use /say, which floods chat (and pops up in my cutscenes) any time I'm in a standard questing area like the Dealer's Den cantina (Coruscant) or Slippery Slopes cantina (Nar Shaddaa).

on leviathan server do you know there are also people troll the RP players when there roleplay on the fleet or so?

like with a big mount or emote stuff like that?

[Screaming_Ziva]

2 hours ago, casirabit said:

Most RP I know do not use general chat for their RP, so they are not being disruptive.

No.  Most of the ones I've have seen use /e and whatever text they want to say.

[Tourmaline]

Well esp for those that it really seems to bother. I just stand there but it seems to bother some so maybe just no mounts in the 3 ft radius around the banks? *shrug*

Not sure really there is a fix for trolling in game. Some will always try cause of the anonymity of the internet, but ya some of the trolls lately have been pretty extreme and gets annoying. Loudest mounts and jumping back and forth over people for hours.

[BulbulusTheGreat]

39 minutes ago, Tourmaline said:

Well esp for those that it really seems to bother. I just stand there but it seems to bother some so maybe just no mounts in the 3 ft radius around the banks? *shrug*

Not sure really there is a fix for trolling in game. Some will always try cause of the anonymity of the internet, but ya some of the trolls lately have been pretty extreme and gets annoying. Loudest mounts and jumping back and forth over people for hours.

to be fair i don't see how mount being loud is trolling, its like saying being on the street where loud motorcycle passes means that person is doing it to annoy you, its a fleet, theres a lot of players, its bound that some will have and use loud mounts, you can always lower games sound.
 

[SteveTheCynic]

4 minutes ago, BulbulusTheGreat said:

to be fair i don't see how mount being loud is trolling, its like saying being on the street where loud motorcycle passes means that person is doing it to annoy you, its a fleet, theres a lot of players, its bound that some will have and use loud mounts, you can always lower games sound.
 

Your analogy is relevant but flawed.  Imagine if the biker is just sitting there (rather than riding by) and annoying you by revving the engine, burning rear-tyre rubber in a circle(1), etc....

(1) Ref: Toe-cutter in Mad Max.