Concerning Griefers on Fleet

[Blackholehead]

Speaking on behalf of the roleplay and casual community, it is monstrously frustrating how griefers can show up and disrupt roleplay with things like mount-parking enormous mounts and spamming the mount button to ceaselessly spam mount noises, in addition to a variety of player effects that can be used to disruptive effect.

Concerning mount-spamming, there are two potential fixes for this:

Make mount sounds muted to other players.
or
Disable mounting in the Cantina area of Fleet.

[DeannaVoyager]

No. 
It would be easier for you to find a place where you don't have to deal with the rest of the community than forcing people to unmount when they are travelling through cantina or get close to it. It would be a nightmare. The fleet is for everyone to do whatever they want to. Someone might consider your roleplay disruptive behaviour because when they are close enough, they can see everything you do and might not want to see it. Should they also call you guys griefers, because you are sorta invading their space as well? 

If you have reasonable ideas to stop the griefers (as in people who bother you on purpose), or separate you from the rest of the playerbase that would be good. Perhaps a guild flagship. But the fleet is a shared area and it should remain open and usable for everyone. 

[sundancebill]

I'd be perfectly ok with disabling mounts in that area and even in the  GTN area.  

[Lord_Malganus]

Thank goodness Strongholds allow avoiding many of the juvenile occurrences on Fleet.

[Vendettus]

This is a topic that needs to be addressed.  There are things that disrupt what other players are doing, particularly parking enormous mounts on others when they are rping, or using emotes that strip other players of their agency and forcing them to dance.  For the former, the center of the circle on fleet, starting at the staircase, should auto dismount players. For the latter, get rid of the emotes that force other players to do anything at all.

[Spikanor]

since when has the fleet become a place with roleplay rule's other players need to follow?

if you wane roleplay and not wane have any trolls or griefers make fun about you then look for place's where there are almost no people like on some planets.

if you wane roleplay on place's where there are a lot of other players like the fleet then you need to deal with it that you have mount's or emote's or with the rakghoul infection or trowing snow balls at you on the life day event.

if people are trolling you with big mount's when you are roleplaying or with emote's then report then by record it and make a ticket and not come up with this stupid idea's what is also going to hurt the normal players that do notting against then.

with idea's like this i can understand good why some people are against roleplay guilds at all.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Spikanor

[DreadzKaiser]

1 hour ago, Vendettus said:

This is a topic that needs to be addressed.  There are things that disrupt what other players are doing, particularly parking enormous mounts on others when they are rping, or using emotes that strip other players of their agency and forcing them to dance.  For the former, the center of the circle on fleet, starting at the staircase, should auto dismount players. For the latter, get rid of the emotes that force other players to do anything at all.

yeaaaah no.

since when is the Fleet Cantina, or any section of any location, a designated role play zone? Massively inconveniencing everyone that tries to pass through that area, is not the solution to a few people being inconvenienced.

use the VIP Section if you absolutely need to RP on the fleet, it's usually empty. the Cartel Bazaar area works too. or the Cantina on the operation Flagships instead of on the spacedock.

got 3 alternative cantinas on the Fleet alone you can try before trying to screw over the general playerbase.

[Spikanor]

18 minutes ago, DreadzKaiser said:

yeaaaah no.

since when is the Fleet Cantina, or any section of any location, a designated role play zone? Massively inconveniencing everyone that tries to pass through that area, is not the solution to a few people being inconvenienced.

use the VIP Section if you absolutely need to RP on the fleet, it's usually empty. the Cartel Bazaar area works too. or the Cantina on the operation Flagships instead of on the spacedock.

got 3 alternative cantinas on the Fleet alone you can try before trying to screw over the general playerbase.

there is also the option that there record it and when there is somebody trolling then with a emote or mount there can send the clip and report him and at some point there learn there lessons i hope since there know somebody from the roleplay groups is recording it so there know trolling then means there get report with it.

thats the best solution for there problem.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Spikanor

[Screaming_Ziva]

2 hours ago, Vendettus said:

This is a topic that needs to be addressed.  There are things that disrupt what other players are doing, particularly parking enormous mounts on others when they are rping, or using emotes that strip other players of their agency and forcing them to dance.  For the former, the center of the circle on fleet, starting at the staircase, should auto dismount players. For the latter, get rid of the emotes that force other players to do anything at all.

One can say that RPing is disruptive to other players since a lot of it is done using /e and other things that other players necessarily don't want to see.

[KianSri]

1 hour ago, Screaming_Ziva said:

One can say that RPing is disruptive to other players since a lot of it is done using /e and other things that other players necessarily don't want to see.

And there's a REALLY easy solution for this - turn off the emote channel so you don't see it. Whereas roleplayers have no way of stopping griefers from disrupting their sessions with things like giant mounts and forced emotes.

I'm seeing a lot of hypocrisy in this thread that amounts to "the fleet should be for everybody!! (except roleplayers, they should find someplace else to go)". And there's a fundamentally false analogy being presented here. Roleplayers are not all streaming into the fleet cantina going "let's see how obnoxiously we can roleplay to annoy other players!" Whereas certain non-roleplayers/griefers ARE deliberately going out of their way to be obnoxious to roleplayers. It's not the same thing. Intent matters.

LOTRO has an excellent feature where you can 'opt out' of forced emotes by other players, just a little toggle on/off in your settings. I think that would be a great thing to have in SWTOR as well.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

Fleet Cantina is an area that everyone, not just role-players end up using.  It's the fleet spawn point, the main fleet quick travel point, and several missions take you into it.

It's unfortunate the role-players are disrupted, but also inevitable.  I don't support actual trolling, but how much is just a player doing their own thing which takes them to fleet cantina?

Forcibly dismounting players who are playing the game would affect, and annoy, a lot of players.

There are an incredible number of options for role-playing that are not in a high traffic area.

[Char_Ell]

I would be fine with disabling mounts in the innermost circle of fleet (inside legacy, cargo, and guild bank locations) to include the VIP area.  Pretty sure this is something that will not have general consensus though so devs are unlikely to make any changes like this.

[Screaming_Ziva]

1 hour ago, KianSri said:

And there's a REALLY easy solution for this - turn off the emote channel so you don't see it. Whereas roleplayers have no way of stopping griefers from disrupting their sessions with things like giant mounts and forced emotes.

I'm seeing a lot of hypocrisy in this thread that amounts to "the fleet should be for everybody!! (except roleplayers, they should find someplace else to go)". And there's a fundamentally false analogy being presented here. Roleplayers are not all streaming into the fleet cantina going "let's see how obnoxiously we can roleplay to annoy other players!" Whereas certain non-roleplayers/griefers ARE deliberately going out of their way to be obnoxious to roleplayers. It's not the same thing. Intent matters.

LOTRO has an excellent feature where you can 'opt out' of forced emotes by other players, just a little toggle on/off in your settings. I think that would be a great thing to have in SWTOR as well.

There is also a REALLY easy solution to stop getting griefed, go RP somewhere else.  There are cantinas on every planet, there are strongholds, and guild ships.  There are even other ships on fleet they can go to.  Sometimes I think RPers use fleet just so everyone else on fleet can see them.

The OP is asking for a change that would effect 100% of players when maybe .1% (or less) are the ones that are actually doing the griefing.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Screaming_Ziva

[Spikanor]

41 minutes ago, Char_Ell said:

I would be fine with disabling mounts in the innermost circle of fleet (inside legacy, cargo, and guild bank locations) to include the VIP area.  Pretty sure this is something that will not have general consensus though so devs are unlikely to make any changes like this.

why most other players that have compleet notting to do with the roleplaying stuff and play the game normal more also get hurt by this idea.

if you roleplay on fleets or other planets then there are risk's you need to deal with and not come up with stuff that is also hurting to normal players that play the game normal.

if there going to add this on the fleet the disabling mounts then its going to rain complains about it and its going to back fire hard back at then.

[Bigfallenstar]

The hypocrisy in here is off the charts. Apparently, the fleet is for everybody. Unless you're a roleplayer. Then you have to find somewhere else to be. Your kind isn't welcomed here because it's disruptive to read some text lines. And if you decide to stay, you'll have to put up with our mudslinging. But you better not say anything about it because we're the normal players, not you roleplayers who are minding their own business and doing your own thing.

[KianSri]

1 hour ago, Screaming_Ziva said:

There is also a REALLY easy solution to stop getting griefed, go RP somewhere else.  There are cantinas on every planet, there are strongholds, and guild ships.  There are even other ships on fleet they can go to.  Sometimes I think RPers use fleet just so everyone else on fleet can see them.

The OP is asking for a change that would effect 100% of players when maybe .1% (or less) are the ones that are actually doing the griefing.

I personally don't think that 'banning' mounts in the cantina is the proper solution, in that we agree. I don't have a suggestion to offer on that score.

But it also shouldn't be the people who are not being disruptive who are then penalised, by having to go elsewhere. If I'm sitting in a restaurant with some friends, eating and talking, and someone comes over and starts playing a kazoo every time one of us speaks, should I and my friends be the ones who have to abandon our table and our meal? Not an exact analogy, because this is a game and that's real life, but it makes the point.

Folks who are not roleplayers don't understand the value, the immersion, of being able to roleplay in the proper setting. (I can't even tell you how many mind-blowing sets were built in WildStar just for one particular roleplay session) If a scene is happening on the fleet, it makes a difference to be able to enact that scene on the fleet. Also, open-world RP has been a living, breathing part of every MMO I've played over the last 10+ years. And yes, it happens primarily in large hubs, like the fleets, because that's where a large number of players naturally gather. It's hard to find open RP out in the middle of Taris.

Again - if seeing RP bothers you (the general you), it's a lot easier to hit that little toggle button in your chat, than for a whole group of people who are minding their own business to get up and relocate. And while I can't speak for other roleplayers, I can tell you that I have never thought to myself 'Yes, let me go to the busiest place in the game so everyone gets to read my RP'. Because we are not roleplaying for the benefit of passersby, we're roleplaying for ourselves and other roleplayers.

[Screaming_Ziva]

1 minute ago, KianSri said:

But it also shouldn't be the people who are not being disruptive who are then penalised, by having to go elsewhere. If I'm sitting in a restaurant with some friends, eating and talking, and someone comes over and starts playing a kazoo every time one of us speaks, should I and my friends be the ones who have to abandon our table and our meal? Not an exact analogy, because this is a game and that's real life, but it makes the point.

1 minute ago, KianSri said:

Again - if seeing RP bothers you (the general you), it's a lot easier to hit that little toggle button in your chat, than for a whole group of people who are minding their own business to get up and relocate. And while I can't speak for other roleplayers, I can tell you that I have never thought to myself 'Yes, let me go to the busiest place in the game so everyone gets to read my RP'. Because we are not roleplaying for the benefit of passersby, we're roleplaying for ourselves and other roleplayers.

But here is the big thing, you are now asking me to change my game play experience so you can have your RP game play experience.  You say that RPers are not being disruptive but, in reality, they are.  If I can't read fleet chat because their RP keeps scrolling up on my screen, that is the very definition of being disruptive.

[Spikanor]

37 minutes ago, KianSri said:

Folks who are not roleplayers don't understand the value, the immersion, of being able to roleplay in the proper setting.

then why most we the normal players that don't understand the value about roleplaying follow your rule's then in a general place like the fleet when we wane play the game normal without any roleplaying stuff since you wane roleplay on the fleet or other place.

i think you need to stop also with that don't understand the value part also since a lot of other communety's in this game can ask you the same thing about there part from the game you never understand at all why it is value for then.

i give notting at all if people wane roleplay or not but there need to accept things also that its not alone about then and that only the roleplayer people can make rule's that other people that not are roleplaying most folow then also.

if you wane roleplay on the fleet then you need to deal with mount's speeder's and emote's people wane use there since its a general place for all the type players and its not only for one group of players.

 

[MotherCrusher]

1 hour ago, Bigfallenstar said:

The hypocrisy in here is off the charts. Apparently, the fleet is for everybody. Unless you're a roleplayer. Then you have to find somewhere else to be. Your kind isn't welcomed here because it's disruptive to read some text lines. And if you decide to stay, you'll have to put up with our mudslinging. But you better not say anything about it because we're the normal players, not you roleplayers who are minding their own business and doing your own thing.

there is no hypocrisy here, we are not telling you to go somewhere else because we don't want you to be where you are, stop trying to twist the narrative.

You are merely being told that the fleet is a place for everyone, and exactly for that reason you should not demand people to behave a certain way just to avoid disrupting you, and if that is a problem, you may wish to move somewhere else. i emphasize that it is YOU guys that are feeling annoyed by what other people are doing. But you dont own the fleet.

hypocrisy would be asking for role players to go away because i am getting annoyed by their role play and then asking bioware to remove role players from the fleet, but noone is saying that.

why is this so hard to understand and why do people instantly start using "hypocrisy" as an argument and twisting the narrative? i will never understand this. Are you seriously hurt this badly by other people playing the game? so much that you have to ruin the experience for everyone else just because someone griefs you once in a blue moon?

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by MotherCrusher

[DreadzKaiser]

2 hours ago, Bigfallenstar said:

The hypocrisy in here is off the charts. Apparently, the fleet is for everybody. Unless you're a roleplayer. Then you have to find somewhere else to be. Your kind isn't welcomed here because it's disruptive to read some text lines. And if you decide to stay, you'll have to put up with our mudslinging. But you better not say anything about it because we're the normal players, not you roleplayers who are minding their own business and doing your own thing.

 

as if the opposite isn't true. the OPs suggestion is what hypocrisy looks like.

"I'm entitled to roleplay here, so we need to implement some restrictions on MY Fleet cantina so that these randos can't annoy ME! I don't care if the force dismounts ruins annoys THEM, they aren't me and they aren't Role playing so that doesn't matter."

We are just pointing out you have a hundred other locations to RP at. If you choose not to move and continue RPing in a populated public location, you are gonna have to deal with the consequences of it.

if you absolutely must RP on the fleet, there are several other cantinas on the fleet. and if you absolutely MUST be in the spacedocks central cantina for your immersion, live with the fact that you have to share with other people, be they randos, a separate group of role players or just trolls.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by DreadzKaiser

[sundancebill]

In reality ,as much as reality can be brought into a game conversation, there is no reason mounts should be allowed in that area  any more than you could bring your car into a lounge.

  

 

 

[Vendettus]

13 minutes ago, sundancebill said:

In reality ,as much as reality can be brought into a game conversation, there is no reason mounts should be allowed in that area  any more than you could bring your car into a lounge.

  

 

 

And it isn't even people are saying to remove mounts from fleet, just the smaller bar area where RPers like to congregate. Telling RPers to leave or deal with it because "rp can be disruptive too" is incredibly disingenuous and so intellectually dishonest that it is patently absurd-- with a simple click  or two any all all chat can be cleaned up, to the point of never even seeing what another players says ever again if desired. No such thing exists for the rp community who have to 'deal with' people coming and sexually harassing them by putting their rancor **** directly on them and then following them around.

[VegaMist]

26 minutes ago, sundancebill said:

In reality ,as much as reality can be brought into a game conversation, there is no reason mounts should be allowed in that area  any more than you could bring your car into a lounge.

  

 

 

The absolutely is a reason - the area is large and mounts greatly reduce the time it takes to get from point A to point B (and C, and D, and however many points you may need to visit). Getting constantly dismounted as you're trying to get places would be a huge QOL reduction. Speaking of role play, cantinas in Star Wars are by no-means non-disruptive places - just ask Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, or even Mando. And not to mention, a typical Star Wars cantina-goer usually regards such disruptions as entertainment (unless of course, they're the ones getting their arms chopped off).

[sundancebill]

We are not talking about the entire fleet. Just a few areas where people gather in numbers like the cantina and possibly the GTN  booths . 

I have great respect for anyone who role plays and griefing is childish. 

 

[DreadzKaiser]

People cut through the center section all the time and would certainly not like to be dismounted from it....

no matter how you slice it, this is basically asking for the nuclear option for an answer to a problem that can be solved by moving to a different cantina

 

....except it's not even a solution since anyone actively trying to screw with RP sessions doesn't need a mount to do it. This would just piss off everyone for no real benefit.