Is it Time for a Big New Story Drop?

[TrixxieTriss]

Just now, JakRoanin said:

But I and people like me pay for yor stuff.

You think we don’t pay for your stuff too? 

[DWho]

Just now, TrixxieTriss said:

But you were just telling us today in the PvP forums that class balancing is a waste of resources & they shouldn’t do it & that it doesn’t matter to players. Have you changed your mind? 

I think it is fine to include it with something else, but as a primary focus I feel it falls flat as only a very small percentage of the game population will even notice the change. Does it matter to the majority of players, no I don't thinks so. Does it matter to a subset of the PVP player base, I'm sure it does. My bigger problem with it is that balancing for PVP and balancing for other content are often at odds. I would prefer they go to a mode more like GSF where everyone in PVP starts with the same stats (based on role) and allow people to buy upgrades with points earned from PVPing. That way you can remove gearing from PVP entirely as a factor and amount of time played becomes the deciding factor. I hope that more clearly explains my position

[JakRoanin]

You and others like you flit in and out with your subscriptions. I remember your very impassioned exit in 7.0. You all come in and out screaming that you never get enough, and while that is totally valid, and very true, people like me *stay* we don't flit in and out, we don't flood the CM with major influxes of cash only to stop until the next shiny comes out. We steadily keep paying our 15$ per month to keep this game running lovingly crafting our stories and characters patiently waiting for the next step in our sagas.

[xxSHOONYxx]

8 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

But I and people like me pay for yor stuff.

Since when? 
If i remember correctly you said you were not around before kotfe, there was a huge mmo playerbase and casual communities. All those players paid for 4.0 and beginning of 5.0 that added nothing to them and why their quit the game. 
Story players may be the biggest part of the community right now won't deny it, but that is because the MUCH larger mmo community already quit because they weren't getting what they wanted.
And 4.0 must not have been cheap at all.

Even now you don't pay for anyone. Unless you are a whale like that guy buying galactic seasons for 4 times for whatever reason

Edited November 13, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[DWho]

10 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

You think we don’t pay for your stuff too? 

EA would never do it but I think it would be interesting to see the percentages of subscribers that identify themselves as PVPers vs Raiders vs Story (subs are probably not he main revenue source anymore though - population is too low for that). I think we would all be surprised to some extent how many people are subbed but don't play group content regularly. I personally only play group content now within a guild (no solo queuing at all anymore) but stay subbed because I have a guild to manage. Well, and over 50 characters on Star Forge at various stages of playing through the storyline.

Edited November 13, 2023 by DWho

[JakRoanin]

3 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

Since when? 
If i remember correctly you said you were not around before kotfe, there was a huge mmo playerbase and casual communities. All those players paid for 4.0 and beginning of 5.0 that added nothing to them and why their quit the game. 
Story players may be the biggest part of the community right now won't deny it, but that is because the MUCH larger mmo community already quit because they weren't getting what they wanted.
And 4.0 must not have been cheap at all.

Even now you don't pay for anyone. Unless you are a whale like that guy buying galactic seasons for 4 times for whatever reason

I came in around Iokath part 2 and while no I didn't pay for anything before then I have been more than loyal since and made up the difference but if you want to be completely technical, all STORY players pay more for this game than any radier or PvPer. We pay for it! I'm just saying a little respect for our time and cash isn't too much to ask instead of screaming "its not content"! 

[TrixxieTriss]

7 minutes ago, DWho said:

EA would never do it but I think it would be interesting to see the percentages of subscribers that identify themselves as PVPers vs Raiders vs Story (subs are probably not he main revenue source anymore though - population is too low for that). I think we would all be surprised to some extent how many people are subbed but don't play group content regularly. I personally only play group content now within a guild (no solo queuing at all anymore) but stay subbed because I have a guild to manage.

Then explain to me how a story player who only subscribes to play the story for 1 month & then unsubscribed again till the next story drop is contributing more to paying for the game than a pvper or raider who is constantly subscribed each month to play their content? Because up until 7.3 was released, that’s exactly what pvper subscribers were doing. We were paying for content that the fly by night story guys wanted, but didn’t stick around to pay for like we did. MMO centric subscribers basically carried this game between story drops when story people would abandon their subscription to go play another game. And then complain their wasn’t enough story being made fast enough in this one 🤦‍♀️

Edited November 13, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[JakRoanin]

1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Then explain to me how a story player who only subscribes to play the story for 1 month & then unsubscribed again till the next story drop is contributing more to paying for the game than a pvper or raider who is constantly subscribed each month to play their content? Because up until 7.3 was released, that’s exactly what pvper subscribers were doing. We were paying for content that the fly by night story guys wanted, but didn’t stick around to pay for like we did. 

You made a very impassioned exit in 7.0 I remember that clearly. 

[TrixxieTriss]

2 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

You made a very impassioned exit in 7.0 I remember that clearly. 

After 10 straight years subscribing on 3 accounts = $5400 USD and that doesn’t include CC I also purchased over the years. But please, tell me again how I didn’t pay enough 🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited November 13, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[DWho]

Just now, TrixxieTriss said:

Then explain to me how a story player who only subscribes to play the story for 1 month & then unsubscribed again till the next story drop is contributing more to paying for the game than a pvper or raider who is constantly subscribed each month to play their content? Because up until 7.3 was released, that’s exactly what pvper subscribers were doing. We were paying for content that the fly by night story guys wanted, but didn’t stick around to pay for like we did. 

I would say based on the total number of players in both camps that there are likely more subbed "story" players than subbed PVP players (even before 7.3). Back before F2P, "story players" still probably outnumbered PVPers though the numbers were much closer. That being purely a result of the larger number of story players. The other problem is how to define the difference between "story" and "PVP" players. Where do you draw the line? Does someone who does the weekly several times in a month but plays story the rest of the time count as a PVPer or story player. If someone comments in the PVP forum, does that make them a PVPer and not a story player. It's really a silly argument about which group "payed" more into SWTOR. That title probably goes to the CM whales.

[JakRoanin]

How does one Sub on three accounts? Genuine question no snark meant.

[TrixxieTriss]

Just now, JakRoanin said:

How does one Sub on three accounts? Genuine question no snark meant.

By having 3 accounts 🤷🏻‍♀️

[DWho]

Just now, JakRoanin said:

How does one Sub on three accounts? Genuine question no snark meant.

Three email addresses and 3 credit cards would be my guess

[JakRoanin]

1 minute ago, DWho said:

Three email addresses and 3 credit cards would be my guess

Sounds complicated. Oh well. 

[TrixxieTriss]

Just now, DWho said:

Three email addresses and 3 credit cards would be my guess

You don’t need seperate credit cards. Just seperate email addresses. I still pay both this account & my wife’s on my card. I’ve since stopped using my other 2 accounts & I stopped paying for my sisters too. But at one point, I was paying for 5 accounts on my 1 credit card. 

[xxSHOONYxx]

1 minute ago, JakRoanin said:

I came in around Iokath part 2 and while no I didn't pay for anything before then I have been more than loyal since and made up the difference but if you want to be completely technical, all STORY players pay more for this game than any radier or PvPer. We pay for it! I'm just saying a little respect for our time and cash isn't too much to ask instead of screaming "its not content"! 

1 Million subs at release. If i remember correctly around 200k were left when it went f2p?
Most pots of the time and forums were people quitting for lack of content at end game, so lets assume maybe 600-700k left for lack of mmo, and 100-200k being generous because the game was not for them or leveling took too long.
And those 200k remaining are a combination of story + people unhappy but staying because is star wars or wishing things get better.
Solely story players have been the minority that turned into the majority when the mmo players were bored into quitting.
"It's the journey not the destination" does not work in a mmo, most mmo players don't think they game starts until max level.
So no, you didn't nor pay for anything as story focused MMO are just a failure. 

[TrixxieTriss]

Just now, xxSHOONYxx said:

1 Million subs at release. If i remember correctly around 200k were left when it went f2p?
Most pots of the time and forums were people quitting for lack of content at end game, so lets assume maybe 600-700k left for lack of mmo, and 100-200k being generous because the game was not for them or leveling took too long.
And those 200k remaining are a combination of story + people unhappy but staying because is star wars or wishing things get better.
Solely story players have been the minority that turned into the majority when the mmo players were bored into quitting.
"It's the journey not the destination" does not work in a mmo, most mmo players don't think they game starts until max level.
So no, you didn't nor pay for anything as story focused MMO are just a failure. 

Well said 👍

[Toraak]

20 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

You and others like you flit in and out with your subscriptions. I remember your very impassioned exit in 7.0. You all come in and out screaming that you never get enough, and while that is totally valid, and very true, people like me *stay* we don't flit in and out, we don't flood the CM with major influxes of cash only to stop until the next shiny comes out. We steadily keep paying our 15$ per month to keep this game running lovingly crafting our stories and characters patiently waiting for the next step in our sagas.

Woah there. Many players of all subsets flit in and out of swtor, and that includes GSF, Ops players, PvP, and definitely story players. Claiming any one style of player doesn't compared to other is false. Everyone complains about lack of content no matter what game play style they are, and many in all area's leave for months or years at a time waiting for more of whatever content they're looking for.

 

I remember in 4.0 when they had the chapters coming out 1 at a time. The countless players that said I'll sub at the end to get them all and unsub again was many.

[DWho]

Just now, Toraak said:

I remember in 4.0 when they had the chapters coming out 1 at a time. The countless players that said I'll sub at the end to get them all and unsub again was many.

Yeah, that was a problem created by Bioware. Each chapter was pretty short. I played it both ways, chapter by chapter and all at once and the all at once way was much better. It occupied you longer and you didn't lose track of the story between releases.

[Toraak]

Just now, DWho said:

Yeah, that was a problem created by Bioware. Each chapter was pretty short. I played it both ways, chapter by chapter and all at once and the all at once way was much better. It occupied you longer and you didn't lose track of the story between releases.

well that expansion had other problems as well. It completely ticked off the majority of the MMO playerbase because they made a Story exclusive expansion. When in reality an expansion needs content for everyone. (Yes I know BW/BS has never actually done this since 2.0). 

[DWho]

8 minutes ago, Toraak said:

well that expansion had other problems as well.

True, but to blame the story itself for all the problems isn't correct. It was the implementation that was flawed. If they had dropped it all as one dump and then used the follow up sub-expansions to address group play, things would have worked out better. Heck, there are even chapters that would have made good operations themselves with just a but of tweaking. The way they dropped the first 9 chapters seemed to indicate it was mostly complete when they launched. I suspect it was done that way to milk subscriptions for an extended period of time (which of course the players found a way around).

Edited November 13, 2023 by DWho

[Ominovin]

3 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

1 Million subs at release. If i remember correctly around 200k were left when it went f2p?
Most pots of the time and forums were people quitting for lack of content at end game, so lets assume maybe 600-700k left for lack of mmo, and 100-200k being generous because the game was not for them or leveling took too long.
And those 200k remaining are a combination of story + people unhappy but staying because is star wars or wishing things get better.
Solely story players have been the minority that turned into the majority when the mmo players were bored into quitting.
"It's the journey not the destination" does not work in a mmo, most mmo players don't think they game starts until max level.
So no, you didn't nor pay for anything as story focused MMO are just a failure. 

It was a little over 2MM subscribers at release, which dwindled down to about 500k by the time the game went F2P and they stopped announcing any sort of performance numbers...

This probably means there were along the lines of 3MM distinct subscribers in the first year, but no more than like 2.2MM at any one time (since not everyone joined at launch).

The biggest issue with the game at launch was that you could complete the stories fairly quickly and basically be left with nothing else to do, which kinda demonstrates the fatal flaw of 'story based' content when years of work is consumed in a couple of weeks.  To be fair, SWTOR development started when the 'industry standard' (aka what WoW was doing) leveling speed was much slower, but this had changed by the time the game actually launched...

[Nee-Elder]

20 minutes ago, Ominovin said:

The biggest issue with the game at launch was that you could complete the stories fairly quickly and basically be left with nothing else to do, which kinda demonstrates the fatal flaw of 'story based' content when years of work is consumed in a couple of weeks. 

Yep pretty much what i said here on page 2 -->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/931976-is-it-time-for-a-big-new-story-drop/?do=findComment&comment=9785504  , further validating my proposed PLAYER generated concepts too.

However,  EA isn't interested.

And, as long as the Free-to-Pay  sheep keep on buying empty CM reskins x infinity,  they never will be interested.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: OP chooses to reply off-topic with phony 18k bloated bloviating baiter instead lol smh

[Exly]

3 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

If and when there will be new story, I hope there will also be a skip point. I can't play any of the new story bits because it's all behind Echoes of Oblivion and I don't hate myself enogh to play through that again. 

 

A new operation would be nice too. 

I wish I could give a hundred likes to this post.  I agree with you on both points. 

I find doing multiple playthroughs of Echoes to be more of a chore than anything else and I don't play this game to do chores.

I would also like to see more ops.  They are enjoyable, and they give me a reason to log in and play with friends.  Solo content is fine and has its appeal, but if that's all that the game had to offer it wouldn't be worth subscribing to. 

[Lium]

There is only a skeleton crew supporting this game now at Broadsword, right?  How would they do all this stuff OP is suggesting?