Coming 7.4 GTN changes on the PTS

[TrixxieTriss]

Everyone interested in the GTN changes happening in 7.4 should read about them or try them on the PTS before they go live. 

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/931783-74-gtn-preview-live-on-pts/

@JoeStramaglia is asking for feedback in the linked thread. 

I’ve already flagged some concern’s & questions in the thread. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[SentinalMasterWW]

I basically stated that the Dev's have no clue on how to fix inflation, and these taxes they keep putting on the game only hurts it more. No one wants to use the GTN to sell an item for 500 Mil, and pay 60 Mil in taxes

 

[Spikanor]

1 minute ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

I basically stated that the Dev's have no clue on how to fix inflation, and these taxes they keep putting on the game only hurts it more. No one wants to use the GTN to sell an item for 500 Mil, and pay 60 Mil in taxes

 

you are right on that point since there can fix it super easy by turning things back there have done wrong in the past and chance the right parts to fix it good.

like turn the credit booster off for once.

remove the credit boxen from slicing crew skill and replace the on the ground slicing part with from credit boxen to sliced tech parts.

and add some new vendor's that sell the right stuff for credits what players like to buy for credits like old crafting schematic's.

and go back to paying for you skills again by the skill trainners and not get then automatic anymore.

[ThanderSnB]

6 hours ago, Spikanor said:

you are right on that point since there can fix it super easy by turning things back there have done wrong in the past and chance the right parts to fix it good.

like turn the credit booster off for once.

remove the credit boxen from slicing crew skill and replace the on the ground slicing part with from credit boxen to sliced tech parts.

and add some new vendor's that sell the right stuff for credits what players like to buy for credits like old crafting schematic's.

and go back to paying for you skills again by the skill trainners and not get then automatic anymore.

I'd like paying for skills again if only to give class trainers a purpose. Class trainers are still there on most leveling planets but have no purpose other than speeder training. You visit them 3 times and never again. This would hurt new players though. They wouldn't be able to afford to upgrade all their skills. Maybe the cost could be low for a player's first character but could go up (server wide) once their first character is level 80.

[Whykara]

25 minutes ago, ThanderSnB said:

Class trainers are still there on most leveling planets but have no purpose other than speeder training. You visit them 3 times and never again.

You can upgrade you speeder skill in the legacy perk menu, making class trainers completely obsolete. It's a shame, they added quite a lot of flavour to the game. They also helped with keeping track of your skills. Nowadays I sometimes discover skills 3 levels after they've been unlocked, simply because I didn't bother to look.

[Spikanor]

33 minutes ago, ThanderSnB said:

I'd like paying for skills again if only to give class trainers a purpose. Class trainers are still there on most leveling planets but have no purpose other than speeder training. You visit them 3 times and never again. This would hurt new players though. They wouldn't be able to afford to upgrade all their skills. Maybe the cost could be low for a player's first character but could go up (server wide) once their first character is level 80.

who tells you there need to pay big money for it.

like in any MMO you play for the first time you have that type of problems that you cant buy a lot of things at the same time that also counts for skills.

so what is the basic 101 lesson you learn is how to make money in the game.

that means you look for stuff that you can sell.

this game drops a lot of grey crap stuff so thats all something there can sell.

same go's for armor piece's and weapon drops there can sell.

and when there learn crew skill's there can sell craft materials on the GTN to other players.

thats all things there learn from the start and what you learn in any new MMO game you play.

and not forget the story line missions /  planet story missions and side missions there can compleet also.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Spikanor

[ThanderSnB]

3 minutes ago, Whykara said:

You can upgrade you speeder skill in the legacy perk menu, making class trainers completely obsolete. It's a shame, they added quite a lot of flavour to the game. They also helped with keeping track of your skills. Nowadays I sometimes discover skills 3 levels after they've been unlocked, simply because I didn't bother to look.

I'm too cheap. Even though I can afford to get it from legacy window, I still like paying the lower price at the trainer. Also, it gives me a reason to use my Darth Malgus or Satele Shan holo statue while leveling. 

I've also not realized I unlocked a new skill. I think new skills are supposed to appear on the primary or secondary bar, but it doesn't always work. And with passives, there is no indication it was added unless the abilities screen is checked each level up. I kind of got into a habit of doing that these days.

3 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

who tells you there need to pay big money for it.

like in any MMO you play for the first time you have that type of problems that you cant buy a lot of things at the same time that also counts for skills.

so what is the basic 101 lesson you learn is how to make money in the game.

that means you look for stuff that you can sell.

this game drops a lot of grey crap stuff so thats all something there can sell.

same go's for armor piece's and weapon drops there can sell.

and when there learn crew skill's there can sell craft materials on the GTN to other players.

thats all things there learn from the start and what you learn in any new MMO game you play.

and not forget the story line missions /  planet story missions and side missions there can compleet also.

I personally don't mind costs being high when I'm starting a new game, but I think a lot of people don't have the patience for it these days. I think SWTOR will have a harder time getting new players if it's too hard for them in the beginning. The conversion rate is already pretty low, like only 20% of new players go past the starter planet.

[Spikanor]

41 minutes ago, ThanderSnB said:

I personally don't mind costs being high when I'm starting a new game, but I think a lot of people don't have the patience for it these days. I think SWTOR will have a harder time getting new players if it's too hard for them in the beginning. The conversion rate is already pretty low, like only 20% of new players go past the starter planet.

if there not have the patience for it then there most not play a MMO game in the first place.

if you look at other MMO game's there do the same thing that you most pay for your skills all is it that you are compleet new to this game its basic normal.

 

and the reason why there have trouble with it is that there do it there self more look is good what there have done in the 7.x era by destorying the game more then doing things right.

and remember also this game has the worst balance ever when between a F2P model and paying for sub and thats also the reason why there get almost no new players for it since the F2P benefits are worst like crap and thats maybe also the reason why most players skip this game since its more a pay to play game then F2P game.

so this is something there do there self more with there sub vs F2P formule what is killing also the game more.

 

edit: there have all trouble to keep there own playerbase from leaving but so far what there are doing with the game there keep destorying it also so that the current playerbase also leave's the game so that the population only become's lower and lower so that you have no chance at all to get new players to play this game at all if there make sure now all that the current playerbase is not happy all.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Spikanor

[Darkestmonty]

15 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

I basically stated that the Dev's have no clue on how to fix inflation, and these taxes they keep putting on the game only hurts it more. No one wants to use the GTN to sell an item for 500 Mil, and pay 60 Mil in taxes

 

To post an item for 3 billion credits, the minimum amount a seller pays is non-refundable fee of 10,000 credits for 12 hours, or 250,000 credits for 7 days. If the item sells that is all the seller pays, there are no additional taxes for the seller. Seller just made 3 billion credits and it only cost the non-refundable posting fee.

The buyer will be charged a tax that scales with the price of the auction. The lower the cost the smaller the taxes. An auction of 3 billion credits will charge the buyer an additional 433,099,984 credits which is 14.95% tax bringing the total a buyer pays to 3,433,099,984 credits.

The buyer will see the taxes already included in the buy price so players searching the GTN will see a price of 3,433,099,984 credits for any item listed at 3 billion credits.

Personally I don't agree with taxing higher cost items nearly 15% but then again I don't know the status of the games inflation based on incoming credits and outgoing credits. It seems very harsh to focus only on the GTN without creating new credit sinks, but this game may need those high taxes to avoid hyperinflation.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Ominovin]

16 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

I basically stated that the Dev's have no clue on how to fix inflation, and these taxes they keep putting on the game only hurts it more. No one wants to use the GTN to sell an item for 500 Mil, and pay 60 Mil in taxes

I'd just like to point out the GTN fee has always been 8% baseline, which is 40 Million for a 500 Million sale:  58 Million is only a fairly small increase that most players will barely notice, and the new system actually has a reduced GTN Fee for sales under 100 Million credits.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Ominovin

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, Ominovin said:

I'd just like to point out the GTN fee has always been 8% baseline, which is 40 Million for a 500 Million sale:  58 Million is only a fairly small increase that most players will barely notice, and the new system actually has a reduced GTN Fee for sales under 100 Million credits.

the new GTN only charges sellers the posting fee. There will be no taxes for sellers since buyers are going to pay the tax.

[GeneralGyro]

cant even give away stuff anymore because the item is 40m tax to trade

[TheVoyant]

What a horrible waste of resources to redo something that's not going to be an improvement. 

I've not had this feeling since....😂

Imagine redoing the GTN when you're bleeding out your player base. This IMO is just further proof things will only continue to get worse vs. improve. They've not learned from the 7.0 downgrade at all it would seem. 

And c'mon they're not gonna listen to any feedback they haven't ever listened to PTS responses. You know this lol. 

[Ominovin]

4 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

the new GTN only charges sellers the posting fee. There will be no taxes for sellers since buyers are going to pay the tax.

• Today, you post an item for 500MM and get 460MM after it sells.
• With the revised system, you post the same item for 460MM, and the buyer gets charged 52.98MM in fees for a total payment of 512.98MM
• Seller makes the exact same amount (outside of the listing fee changes), while the buyer pays a massive 2.6% more than before.

I am still failing to see any huge issues here.

 

ADDENDUM: 

FYI, here's the pricing math I am coming up with:

							NEW	OLD
Sale Price:							460,000,000	500,000,000
New GTN Fees:		Rate	From	To	Portion Taxed	Fee
	Bracket I	6%	0	999,999	999,999	59,999.94
	Bracket II	8%	1,000,000	9,999,999	9,000,000	720,000.00
	Bracket III	10%	10,000,000	99,999,999	90,000,000	9,000,000.00
	Bracket IV	12%	100,000,000	499,999,999	360,000,001	43,200,000.12
	Bracket V	14%	500,000,000	999,999,999	0	0.00
	Bracket VI	16%	1,000,000,000	3,000,000,000	0	0.00
	Fee Total:	11.52%			460,000,000.00	52,980,000.06	52,980,000.06
Final Sale Price:		2.596%					512,980,000	500,000,000
Old GTN Fee		8%			500,000,000	40,000,000.00		-40,000,000
Sale Proceeds							460,000,000	460,000,000

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Ominovin

[Darkestmonty]

37 minutes ago, Ominovin said:

• Today, you post an item for 500MM and get 460MM after it sells.
• With the revised system, you post the same item for 460MM, and the buyer gets charged 52.98MM in fees for a total payment of 512.98MM
• Seller makes the exact same amount (outside of the listing fee changes), while the buyer pays a massive 2.6% more than before.

I am still failing to see any huge issues here.

The only issues I have come across are UI related and now we'll have thousands of "SUCCESSFUL SALE" messages clogging up our mail box. We no longer need to know we sold something via the mail, there needs to be a separate UI element for the GTN notifications.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Ominovin said:

• Today, you post an item for 500MM and get 460MM after it sells.
• With the revised system, you post the same item for 460MM, and the buyer gets charged 52.98MM in fees for a total payment of 512.98MM
• Seller makes the exact same amount (outside of the listing fee changes), while the buyer pays a massive 2.6% more than before.

I am still failing to see any huge issues here.

Let’s see if I can offer a crafter / sellers perspective.

Keep in mind that crafter / sellers are providing a service to the majority of the player base who doesn’t want to craft, doesn’t have the time to craft, doesn’t know how to craft or is just too lazy to craft. Without the games dedicated crafters doing this, there would way less stock or choice on the GTN & prices would be even higher than now.

I mostly craft & sell dyes. It’s how I made all my credits in the game before the hyperinflation started 3 years ago. 

Anyone whose ever crafted dyes to sell, knows that it can be time consuming gathering the mats & there are costs involved doing missions for the other mats. You then need to craft them. It’s not a zero sum activity. Some colour schematics actually require you to grind certain rep before you can even buy it from the vendor. It costs credits & lots of playtime to do this. So when you eventually sell them, you want to be compensated properly with an acceptable amount of credits. 

Sadly, the dye market can be pretty cutthroat & you can make very small margins if there is lots of competition (& no hyperinflation). So it’s important to know your costs & what other people are selling them for to reduce your exposure & make it worth your time providing this service to other players.

This new non refundable listing fee is going to make it impossible to know what your costs are now. Because you will never know the true costs if your items don’t sell out 100% each time you list them. Which, if you’ve ever sold dyes, you’d know it isn’t a guarantee because the market is cut throat with undercutters & sometimes certain colours are in demand & other times they aren’t. So sometimes you might sell out & other times you sell none.

With this new non refundable listing fee, there is a very big risk that crafting & listing something on the GTN will actually mean you will lose credits. So why would any player provide this service if there is a very good chance that they will be losing credits & playtime? 

The non refundable fees are also way too expensive & progressively get higher the longer or more expensive you list an item for.

Many people like me, who provide 50-100+ dyes a day, will just stop doing it. Which means less stock on the GTN, which means prices will go up. Demand will outstrip supply which will actually push up prices on the GTN (just like it does in the real world when there isn’t enough supply). 

And sure, some non-life crafters will stick around to supply the market. But there will be significantly less sellers than now. They will also want higher compensation for the added risk for the non refundable fees on items that don’t sell. Which means they will increase their prices. And as more crafters leave the market, those that remain will have a monopoly & be able price gouge with no competition to keep them honest. 

What @JoeStramaglia & Broadsword haven’t realised, is this non refundable risk will also affect Cartel Coin whales who provide the majority of CM items on the GTN.
The difference is these people are spending real money to buy CC’s to buy CM items to convert to credits via the GTN. By increasing the risk of losing credits with each listing, it makes this process way less predictable. Which means there will be a portion of whales who will stop doing it. And that means Broadsword will actually be losing that revenue from those real money sales. 
It will also push up prices on the GTN because the remaining whales will want to make more to balance the risk. 

The non refundable fees are the biggest threat with this change for both the players & Broadswords own revenue stream. 

The other changes are less damaging, but they will piss some GTN buyers off enough that some will stop buying & may even make them quit the game. Which is not something this games population can keep affording to absorb anymore. Therefore, it’s totally illogical to change something that doesn’t need changing and is going to make players upset. 

There is no reason to add a non refundable listing fee. If something doesn’t sell, it should be refunded.

There is no reason to switch the sales tax/fee from the seller to the buyer. All it will do is cause confusion & piss off buyers. 

The only tax/fee changes I agree with, are the progressive taxes/fees that go up the more expensive something is. Because this is the perfect type of credit sink that specifically targets those players like me that have all the wealth.

These other fees/taxes are punitive to players trying to provide a service to other players & will drive down competition on the GTN, increase prices on the GTN (which goes against the idea of reducing inflation) & ultimately reduce Broadswords revenue income to reinvest into game content & design. 

That’s why some of these changes are a huge issue if they go forward in their current design, 

Edited October 29, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Let’s see if I can offer a crafter / sellers perspective.

Keep in mind that crafter / sellers are providing a service to the majority of the player base who doesn’t want to craft, doesn’t have the time to craft, doesn’t know how to craft or is just too lazy to craft. Without the games dedicated crafters doing this, there would way less stock or choice on the GTN & prices would be even higher than now.

I mostly craft & sell dyes. It’s how I made all my credits in the game before the hyperinflation started 3 years ago. 

Anyone whose ever crafted dyes to sell, knows that it can be time consuming gathering the mats & there are costs involved doing missions for the other mats. You then need to craft them. It’s not a zero sum activity. Some colour schematics actually require you to grind certain rep before you can even buy it from the vendor. It costs credits & lots of playtime to do this. So when you eventually sell them, you want to be compensated properly with an acceptable amount of credits. 

Sadly, the dye market can be pretty cutthroat & you can make very small margins if there is lots of competition (& no hyperinflation). So it’s important to know your costs & what other people are selling them for to reduce your exposure & make it worth your time providing this service to other players.

This new non refundable listing fee is going to make it impossible to know what your costs are now. Because you will never know the true costs if your items don’t sell out 100% each time you list them. Which, if you’ve ever sold dyes, you’d know it isn’t a guarantee because the market is cut throat with undercutters & sometimes certain colours are in demand & other times they aren’t. So sometimes you might sell out & other times you sell none.

With this new non refundable listing fee, there is a very big risk that crafting & listing something on the GTN will actually mean you will lose credits. So why would any player provide this service if there is a very good chance that they will be losing credits & playtime? 

The non refundable fees are also way too expensive & progressively get higher the longer or more expensive you list an item for.

Many people like me, who provide 50-100+ dyes a day, will just stop doing it. Which means less stock on the GTN, which means prices will go up. Demand will outstrip supply which will actually push up prices on the GTN (just like it does in the real world when there isn’t enough supply). 

And sure, some non-life crafters will stick around to supply the market. But there will be significantly less sellers than now. They will also want higher compensation for the added risk for the non refundable fees on items that don’t sell. Which means they will increase their prices. And as more crafters leave the market, those that remain will have a monopoly & be able price gouge with no competition to keep them honest. 

What @JoeStramaglia & Broadsword haven’t realised, is this non refundable risk will also affect Cartel Coin whales who provide the majority of CM items on the GTN.
The difference is these people are spending real money to buy CC’s to buy CM items to convert to credits via the GTN. By increasing the risk of losing credits with each listing, it makes this process way less predictable. Which means there will be a portion of whales who will stop doing it. And that means Broadsword will actually be losing that revenue from those real money sales. 
It will also push up prices on the GTN because the remaining whales will want to make more to balance the risk. 

The non refundable fees are the biggest threat with this change for both the players & Broadswords own revenue stream. 

The other changes are less damaging, but they will piss some GTN buyers off enough that some will stop buying & may even make them quit the game. Which is not something this games population can keep affording to absorb anymore. Therefore, it’s totally illogical to change something that doesn’t need changing and is going to make players upset. 

There is no reason to add a non refundable listing fee. If something doesn’t sell, it should be refunded.

There is no reason to switch the sales tax/fee from the seller to the buyer. All it will do is cause confusion & piss off buyers. 

The only tax/fee changes I agree with, are the progressive taxes/fees that go up the more expensive something is. Because this is the perfect type of credit sink that specifically targets those players like me that have all the wealth.

These other fees/taxes are punitive to players trying to provide a service to other players & will drive down competition on the GTN, increase prices on the GTN (which goes against the idea of reducing inflation) & ultimately reduce Broadswords revenue income to reinvest into game content & design. 

you have be smarter about posting auctions.

Depending on the price of your item, the longest posting time of 7 days is not always better, especially when the market is saturated and there are a lot of people willing and able to undercut your auction.

Player crafted "White and Light Gray Dye Module" sells for 350,000 credits currently on Star Forge.

Posting Fees for 7.4 GTN

• 12 hours = 100 credits
• 1 day = 125 credits
• 2 days = 250 credits
• 3 days = 500 credits
• 7 dayss = 1000 credits

Lets say you pick the worst option available, 7 days for 1000 credits. You post your auction for 7 days and it sells. You lost 1000 credits but you are now going to net 349,000 credits for the sale.

If you made that same sale now with the 8% GTN tax you would only net 322,000 credits.

In 7.4 you can fail to sell your dye for 27 weeks straight before you start to lose more credits than selling it now with the current GTN tax. Are you really afraid it will take you longer than 27 weeks to sell an item?

Edited October 29, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[TrixxieTriss]

2 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

you have be smarter about posting auctions.

Depending on the price of your item, the longest posting time of 7 days is not always better, especially when the market is saturated and there are a lot of people willing and able to undercut your auction.

Player crafted "White and Light Gray Dye Module" sells for 350,000 credits currently on Star Forge.

Posting Fees for 7.4 GTN

• 12 hours = 100 credits
• 1 day = 125 credits
• 2 days = 250 credits
• 3 days = 500 credits
• 7 dayss = 1000 credits

Lets say you pick the worst option available, 7 days for 1000 credits. You post your auction for 7 days and it sells. You lost 1000 credits but you are now going to net 349,000 credits for the sale.

If you made that same sale now with the 8% GTN tax you would only net 322,000 credits.

In 7.4 you can fail to sell your dye for 27 weeks straight before you start to lose more credits than selling it now with the current GTN tax. Are you really afraid it will take you longer than 27 weeks to sell an item?

You’ve completely missed the point of my post & tried to compare a CM dye to a crafted dye. CM dyes are nearly always high priced with a massive profit margin. 

Crafted items, wether it’s a dye, a stim or a decoration, take precious play time & have a credit cost associated with it as well. There are also some crafted dyes that require grinding hours & hours of mind numbing reputation before you can even buy the schematics. 

Because crafted dyes are usually low priced items, you have to sell a lot of them to make any real credits. Which is why most dye crafters list an assortment of different colour at a time. Otherwise it’s not worth the effort crafting them.

And depending on demand or if you’re being aggressively undercut, you may not sell any. Which based on your prices, my 50-100 that I list will cost a lot in listing fees (50x) 1000 or (100x) 1000, could be 50,000 to 100,000 credits going to waste if I chose 7 days & didn’t sell any. 

The way they have designed it, means players are essentially gambling that they’ll sell because there’s a risk they won’t (Which is a very bad design). And those that might decide to keep crafting will have to increase their prices (if they are smart) to balance out that risk & reduce how many they list & for how long. All of which will push up prices & that goes against the devs stated desire to reduce inflation. 

Do you understand the point I’m trying to make as a crafter? That this is a bad design that will reduce competition & push up prices. 
 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, Ominovin said:

here's the pricing math I am coming up with

Don’t forget the listing fees the seller also has to pay & may never get back. 

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

Lets say you pick the worst option available, 7 days for 1000 credits. You post your auction for 7 days and it sells. You lost 1000 credits but you are now going to net 349,000 credits for the sale.

If you made that same sale now with the 8% GTN tax you would only net 322,000 credits.

In 7.4 you can fail to sell your dye for 27 weeks straight before you start to lose more credits than selling it now with the current 8% GTN tax.

 

I don't see how this actually makes sense.

 

In the old system, as has been mentioned, if you listed something for 500,000, the buyer would pay 500,000 and you'd receive 460,000. 40,000 was taken as a tax.

 

In the new system, if you list something for 500,000 credits (as in, you receive 500,000 when it sells), it's going to actually sell for more since the buyer also pays the tax. That means your example is wrong.

 

If the current going rate for a dye on Star Forge is 350,000, when this new system goes live, the new price won't be 350,000 + the tax, allowing the seller to pocket the full 350,000 (minus the fee). It'd be 350,000, meaning the seller would have to list for less to account for the buyer's tax. The buyer doesn't care where the tax is applied, they care what they pay, and what they see won't change (ie, they're not gonna see 350,000 and then suddenly pay more, they'll see the total price, so for the seller to pocket 350,000, the buyout price for the listing was higher and the buyer would only see that higher number). The fact that the tax is now applied to the buyer doesn't mean the buyer is suddenly going to think "Okay, well I have to pay this tax now so I'm okay with paying 6%+ more than I was willing to pay before." That doesn't make sense.

 

The tax is still there, the seller doesn't get to pocket it, it's just shifted to the buyer's side (who will only care about the price they see, so the tax may as well be still on the seller since the buyer only sees the total buyout price). From what I see, the tax is less for an item like this (since it's <1m credits) and that's where any true benefit to sellers would come from. Once the buyout price reaches the threshold where it's taxed higher than 8%, this is an outright loss for sellers, since they still have to account for the tax and then also the non-refundable fee, which then stacks up again and again any time the item doesn't sell and you have to relist it.

[Gokkus]

What I expect happens when this GTN fee goed live:

-the less popular or less known items will dissapear from the GTN

-undercutting will increase so prices will drop

-less people will want to play the 'GTN game'

-less listings and less sales means less taxes so...eventually it will also be less effective against inflation.

This is pure speculation but the end result seems to be the exact opposite of what they want to achieve. I personally expect to list less items because it is a waste of money to offer items that don't sell quickly.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Gokkus

[Darkestmonty]

10 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

You’ve completely missed the point of my post & tried to compare a CM dye to a crafted dye. CM dyes are nearly always high priced with a massive profit margin. 

Crafted items, wether it’s a dye, a stim or a decoration, take precious play time & have a credit cost associated with it as well. There are also some crafted dyes that require grinding hours & hours of mind numbing reputation before you can even buy the schematics. 

Because crafted dyes are usually low priced items, you have to sell a lot of them to make any real credits. Which is why most dye crafters list an assortment of different colour at a time. Otherwise it’s not worth the effort crafting them.

And depending on demand or if you’re being aggressively undercut, you may not sell any. Which based on your prices, my 50-100 that I list will cost a lot in listing fees (50x) 1000 or (100x) 1000, could be 50,000 to 100,000 credits going to waste if I chose 7 days & didn’t sell any. 

The way they have designed it, means players are essentially gambling that they’ll sell because there’s a risk they won’t (Which is a very bad design). And those that might decide to keep crafting will have to increase their prices (if they are smart) to balance out that risk & reduce how many they list & for how long. All of which will push up prices & that goes against the devs stated desire to reduce inflation. 

Do you understand the point I’m trying to make as a crafter? That this is a bad design that will reduce competition & push up prices. 
 

 

you will no longer be able to flood a market with crafted items and hope they sell.

If you notice your market already has 4 pages of item, don't post 30 of the same item for 7 days. Post 1-3 and use the 12 or 24 hour posting times where the fees can be as low as 100 to 150 credits.

If your profit margin is so small that the 100 and 150 credit posting fee will put you in the negative, don't sell.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Spikanor]

but are the new GTN fee rule's not also going to hurt hard for some other players that are using the GTN as there personal story place.

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Spikanor

[Darkestmonty]

9 hours ago, The-Kaitou-Kid said:

 

I don't see how this actually makes sense.

 

In the old system, as has been mentioned, if you listed something for 500,000, the buyer would pay 500,000 and you'd receive 460,000. 40,000 was taken as a tax.

 

In the new system, if you list something for 500,000 credits (as in, you receive 500,000 when it sells), it's going to actually sell for more since the buyer also pays the tax. That means your example is wrong.

 

If the current going rate for a dye on Star Forge is 350,000, when this new system goes live, the new price won't be 350,000 + the tax, allowing the seller to pocket the full 350,000 (minus the fee). It'd be 350,000, meaning the seller would have to list for less to account for the buyer's tax. The buyer doesn't care where the tax is applied, they care what they pay, and what they see won't change (ie, they're not gonna see 350,000 and then suddenly pay more, they'll see the total price, so for the seller to pocket 350,000, the buyout price for the listing was higher and the buyer would only see that higher number). The fact that the tax is now applied to the buyer doesn't mean the buyer is suddenly going to think "Okay, well I have to pay this tax now so I'm okay with paying 6%+ more than I was willing to pay before." That doesn't make sense.

 

The tax is still there, the seller doesn't get to pocket it, it's just shifted to the buyer's side (who will only care about the price they see, so the tax may as well be still on the seller since the buyer only sees the total buyout price). From what I see, the tax is less for an item like this (since it's <1m credits) and that's where any true benefit to sellers would come from. Once the buyout price reaches the threshold where it's taxed higher than 8%, this is an outright loss for sellers, since they still have to account for the tax and then also the non-refundable fee, which then stacks up again and again any time the item doesn't sell and you have to relist it.

what was the price of the player made "White and Light Gray Dye Module" one day ago? Two days ago, Three, Four, Five, a month ago?

Prices are never static. They fluctuate according the inflation and supply/demand. Seeing a player crafted "White and Light Gray Dye Module" go from 350,000 to 371,000 isn't a big shock and the price will stabilize again once people adjust to the new tactics of 7.4 GTN.

no more flooding a market with 30 of the same dyes hoping a handful sell. Smart players will post 1-3 for a short period of time undercutting when necessary increasing their profit margins nearly 8% since they don't pay GTN taxes anymore.

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

you will no longer be able to flood a market with crafted items and hope they sell.

If you notice your market already has 4 pages of item, don't post 30 of the same item for 7 days. Post 1-3 and use the 12 or 24 hour posting times where the fees can be as low as 100 to 150 credits.

If your profit margin is so small that the 100 and 150 credit posting fee will put you in the negative, don't sell.

Still missing the point 🤦‍♀️

I don’t flood the market with the same colour. I list 2-3 of the same & that’s it.

But with the non refundable fees, I won’t be listing any. And I won’t be the only crafter who does this.