A letter to the Devs: Please, Stop Dumbing the game down

[TrixxieTriss]

7 hours ago, Spikanor said:

remove all the stupid tax idea's there wane add and most of the one's there have all add like the mail tax and trade tax need to be remove.

I don’t agree with this assessment as you’ve presented it. Here are my reasons & what I would do to improve the system. 

The trade tax & mail tax should still stay because they close the tax avoidance loophole of people trading outside of the GTN.

But they do need to make some changes to the system to allow people to gift items for free. And the only way I can see that working & not have people use it as a tax avoidance loophole is to make any gifted items become legacy bound. 

And they need to allow item drops in a group to be freely tradable for at least an hour between people in the group. 

They also need to increase the sales cap on the GTN to the maximum credit limit a character can hold. That way people don’t need to do sales trades outside of the GTN.

I would also suggest they increase the amount of credits that preferred & F2P characters can hold. This would allow them to buy more expensive items on the GTN. But I would suggest keeping their ability to sell items on the GTN at 1-10 million credits. 

Lastly, All travel fees on the lowest planets should be abolished. I would even go as far as abolishing them on all planets just before the Nar Shad lvls. This gives new players & new characters some breathing room before the travel taxes kick in. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Spikanor]

5 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

The trade tax & mail tax should still stay because they close the tax avoidance loophole of people trading outside of the GTN.

But they do need to make some changes to the system to allow people to gift items for free. And the only way I can see that working & not have people use it as a tax avoidance loophole is to make any gifted items become legacy bound. 

thats something really wierd you are now telling.

there most keep the trade and mail tax but there most do something to make items players do as gift become free.

then explane me and i think a lot of others wane know that also how do you know when a item is a gift or not since its always the players own choose if he wane give's something for free to somebody else or not and not the devs can tell this item you can give for free but that item not.

then you make a more big mess then we have now.

 

5 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I would also suggest they increase the amount of credits that preferred & F2P characters can hold. This would allow them to buy more expensive items on the GTN. But I would suggest keeping their ability to sell items on the GTN at 1-10 million credits. 

for the F2P you not have to increase that a lot.

but for preffered there most increase it a lot since what there have done last time was a compleet joke from then.

6 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

I do wish bugs would get fixed, and no, I don't agree with everything the Devs have done. I'm not saying that they've done everything right. But for me, personally, nothing has happened that makes me want to stop playing. This game is what it is, a mostly RPG with MMO elements. But as I said, this is a game. It's not at all necessary to live a good life. So, I'm good. The Voss update was great for me. It's what I like. I appreciate other people have different needs, but we all need to accept that we do not control the game.

we cant controle the game but we can still show or feedback about things there have add.

lets take the 6.x amplifier sheet chance as a good exemple: on the PTS a lot of people told that it was to big and has no close option.

what have there done the devs compleet ignore the feedback about it.

when the update was live the companions about it was so big that it took then weeks later to add a close option to it.

 

the same with the new gearing system.

in 7.0 there force you to run PVP or ops to get the upgrade material you need for it.

3 update's later there chance it so that it now also drops in the daily missions and heroic's.

when people have complain all about it since it was on the PTS to chance it or remove it.

 

what we wane see from the devs is that there do things right from the start and not make a big mess first so that there need to chance it few update's later always since there is a big worse feedback about it.

maybe for you nothing has chance yet so that you stop playing but for a lot of others there are good reasons why there quit.

i have quit this game few weeks after the expension launch since i got sick of the worthless choose there have done this time.

the only reason i have come back is to see if broadsword is doing a much better job then bioware has done with the game and so far its not looking good.

[Exly]

1 hour ago, Spikanor said:

then explane me and i think a lot of others wane know that also how do you know when a item is a gift or not since its always the players own choose if he wane give's something for free to somebody else or not and not the devs can tell this item you can give for free but that item not.

They could just put a tax the credits that pass through the mail and stop taxing items.  That way, if an item is being exchanged for credits, they would still collect a tax, but would not collect any tax from items passed through the mail when no credits were exchanged.

[Spikanor]

34 minutes ago, Exly said:

They could just put a tax the credits that pass through the mail and stop taxing items.  That way, if an item is being exchanged for credits, they would still collect a tax, but would not collect any tax from items passed through the mail when no credits were exchanged.

then what about credits gift's some people do to new players.

and i think there not mail there gift's to other people and use the trade function since thats much saver then the mail system is.

 

and here is also a other problem with the trade tax that make creating your own guild also harder now for a lot of players with the trade tax in place.

since you need 4 people to creat a guild and people are not doing it for free so asking it for credits is only become more hard since there is a trade tax in place.

the only thing that can fix it is that there remove the 4 people limit to creat a guild and make it possible to creat it on your own.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Spikanor

[Exly]

13 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

then what about credits gift's some people do to new players.

and i think there not mail there gift's to other people and use the trade function since thats much saver then the mail system is.

 

and here is also a other problem with the trade tax that make creating your own guild also harder now for a lot of players with the trade tax in place.

since you need 4 people to creat a guild and people are not doing it for free so asking it for credits is only become more hard since there is a trade tax in place.

the only thing that can fix it is that there remove the 4 people limit to creat a guild and make it possible to creat it on your own.

I don't see the problem.  People with enough credits that they are giving them away can probably afford to pay the tax, and allowing people to mail or trade items could be gifted tax free would still be possible.  I get why people would want to be able to gift things to another person whether they are gifting things like augments, stims or med packs, or if they just want to give someone a cartel market item without having to pay a tax, but taxing credit exchanges just isn't that big of an issue in my opinion.  

I guess people could give items to others to entice them to help form a guild instead of credits, but why not just tax the people that want to pay people in credits.  After all, if you're paying someone to help form a guild, you're paying them for a service, and it makes sense to me to tax transactions like that.

[Spikanor]

12 minutes ago, Exly said:

I don't see the problem.  People with enough credits that they are giving them away can probably afford to pay the tax, and allowing people to mail or trade items could be gifted tax free would still be possible.  I get why people would want to be able to gift things to another person whether they are gifting things like augments, stims or med packs, or if they just want to give someone a cartel market item without having to pay a tax, but taxing credit exchanges just isn't that big of an issue in my opinion.  

I guess people could give items to others to entice them to help form a guild instead of credits, but why not just tax the people that want to pay people in credits.  After all, if you're paying someone to help form a guild, you're paying them for a service, and it makes sense to me to tax transactions like that.

the stupid tax idea's from the devs are not going to work in a good way and make things only more worse what there are now.

look is good in the real world how things works when there increase the tax on some things.

if in your country there rise the tax on food and other items then the shops increase there price also for the customers that most buy the stuff so is that then a good thing also.

its going to work the same in the game also that players only increase the price up from a lot of items so that the buyer also most pay the tax for the seller.

and i think we all agree on that we need to make sure that the price's from a lot of items go down and not increase more what there are now.

[bahramnima]

2024 is a critical year for swtor, because in 2023 we will still get content developed by BW but after 7.4, it is up to broadsword to update the game, which is 2024, so we will see in 2024 if broadsword gonna do same as BW or better or worse, i will make my decision about this game after 2024, if broadsword do same as BW or even better i will continue playing this game, but if it is worse then it is time to kiss this game goodbye. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by bahramnima

[JakRoanin]

I think that the real test will come after all the servers are on the cloud. It's important to remember that they have to move one step at a time. Once the servers are on the cloud and the kinks are settled then I'm hoping major bugs are quashed. After that, I really hope that a huge story dump happens. Without patience nothing good will happen.

[TrixxieTriss]

12 hours ago, Spikanor said:

how do you know when a item is a gift or not

Simple:
If an item is traded with credits exchanged, it is a sale. 
If an item is traded without credits exchanged, it is a gift. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[meddani]

game is unsalvageable at this point, solution? play a different game , haven't played in days and in all honestly i don't miss it.

[Spikanor]

40 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Simple:
If an item is trade with credits exchanged, it is a sale. 
If an item is traded without credits exchanged, it is a gift. 

and what about credits as gift to new player what some people are doing is also wrong to tax that.

any increase of tax now is wrong since there can do first a lot of other things before you come on a point to add or increase some tax's since that most be the last resort to use if a lot of other things are not helping since there can do a lot first before there most use the last resort what is adding tax to some things or increase it alot.

[DWho]

34 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Simple:
If an item is trade with credits exchanged, it is a sale. 
If an item is traded without credits exchanged, it is a gift. 

What is it then when Player A gifts Player B 4 billion credits and Player B gifts Player A a cartel market item shortly thereafter. It's this loophole that is the issue with "gifting". It would be abused by far more players than would legitimately use it for gifting. The binding of CM items to legacy after the first trade/sale following their purchase from the CM is the only real solution (though you still get the "no tax" trade the first time) to prevent flipping of items which drives up prices.

Gifting should be allowed but not for everyone all the time. Perhaps a 30 minutes to 1 hour unlock that you purchase with credits (or longer if purchased with CCs) where you can trade things tax free . Still exploitable but it does put a damper on "free" trades.

Despite the complaints, the taxes have been very successful in bringing down prices. Perhaps they can be lifted at some point once prices have stabilized at a more reasonable level.

[TrixxieTriss]

49 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

and what about credits as gift to new player what some people are doing is also wrong to tax that.

any increase of tax now is wrong since there can do first a lot of other things before you come on a point to add or increase some tax's since that most be the last resort to use if a lot of other things are not helping since there can do a lot first before there most use the last resort what is adding tax to some things or increase it alot.

Gifting credits is not needed & can actually be harmful to the game. Considering the tax idea is to limit inflation, which is derived by the value of credits, then gifting credits shouldn’t even be a consideration. Because gifting credits allows credit sellers & unscrupulous actors to influence the games credit market & inflation. 

[TrixxieTriss]

53 minutes ago, DWho said:

What is it then when Player A gifts Player B 4 billion credits and Player B gifts Player A a cartel market item shortly thereafter. It's this loophole that is the issue with "gifting". It would be abused by far more players than would legitimately use it for gifting. The binding of CM items to legacy after the first trade/sale following their purchase from the CM is the only real solution (though you still get the "no tax" trade the first time) to prevent flipping of items which drives up prices.

Gifting should be allowed but not for everyone all the time. Perhaps a 30 minutes to 1 hour unlock that you purchase with credits (or longer if purchased with CCs) where you can trade things tax free . Still exploitable but it does put a damper on "free" trades.

Despite the complaints, the taxes have been very successful in bringing down prices. Perhaps they can be lifted at some point once prices have stabilized at a more reasonable level.

There should be zero gifting of credits, period! That eliminates any possible loophole for tax/fee evasion. 
Which means your scenario isn’t possible. So why are we even discussing it? 

[Spikanor]

9 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Gifting credits is not needed & can actually be harmful to the game. Considering the tax idea is to limit inflation, which is derived by the value of credits, then gifting credits shouldn’t even be a consideration. Because gifting credits allows credit sellers & unscrupulous actors to influence the games credit market & inflation. 

do you know also the reason why some people do that to give credits away to new players.

since there are no good credit sinks in this game anymore since the devs have remove then all from the game.

the crafting system was a good credit sink system but has become worthless in 7.0

the skills you need to buy from the class trainner was also the best credit sink in this game but there have make then useless since there become free.

that are all the mistake's the devs have make all.

then there are some other idea's for credit sink.

like the most asking thing players wane have: old crafting schematic's are also the best credit sinks only the armor and weapons schematic's become legacy bind.

with that you not need have some stupid tax idea's at all what a lot of people not like.

then you fix the inflation problem good since there have make a compleet mess from it and in 7.0 only has become more worse.

[JakRoanin]

It's still very easy to make credits in the game. So, I really don't see the massive problems people have with the taxes.  That said, there's still not enough stuff to spend them on.

[TrixxieTriss]

Just now, Spikanor said:

do you know also the reason why some people do that to give credits away to new players.

since there are no good credit sinks in this game anymore since the devs have remove then all from the game.

the crafting system was a good credit sink system but has become worthless in 7.0

the skills you need to buy from the class trainner was also the best credit sink in this game but there have make then useless since there become free.

that are all the mistake's the devs have make all.

then there are some other idea's for credit sink.

like the most asking thing players wane have: old crafting schematic's are also the best credit sinks only the armor and weapons schematic's become legacy bind.

with that you not need have some stupid tax idea's at all what a lot of people not like.

then you fix the inflation problem good since there have make a compleet mess from it and in 7.0 only has become more worse.

It’s not as simple as fixing crafting. I’ve been discussing the inflation problem on the forums for 4 years now. 

IMHO, BW didn’t need to increase travel taxes or add QT taxes or SH taxes to get inflation under control. And I don’t think they really need more credit sinks either.

All they needed to do was reduce the amount of credits generated in the game ☑️

As well as increase the GTN sales cap to be the same as the credit limit a character can hold. 

And close the tax loopholes so people who were selling items couldn’t avoid the GTN taxes ☑️(sadly their implementation of this policy wasn’t thought out properly & still needs improvement for gifting items & sharing consumables in groups & group loot drops) 

The only thing they haven’t done yet is increase the GTN sales cap. If the did that, it would remove more credits from the game faster than any other credit sink. Which would reduce inflationary pressures & eventually cause deflation (as long as they keep game generated credits under control). 

 

 

[DWho]

22 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

There should be zero gifting of credits, period! That eliminates any possible loophole for tax/fee evasion. 
Which means your scenario isn’t possible. So why are we even discussing it? 

Substitute any alternate currency you like then (mats, hypecrates, etc). If you tax only credit including transactions, the big boys stop using credits use something else and it is those big boys that drive up the price of everything with their virtually unlimited credits.

Not charging a fee for expensive item "trades" does not remove enough credits from the game (people already know far too well how to avoid those credit taxes and it is the ones that are doing that, that are the heart of the problem with the economy). There may be a time when that approach can be taken but it isn't yet. All trades, regardless of whether they include credits must be taxed in some way or people will just stop using credits for purchases and alternate currencies will flourish making the problem of controlling the economy much more difficult.

Gifting is a really small part of the total number of transactions, certainly not enough to risk undoing the progress that has been made in cooling down the economy.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 minute ago, DWho said:

Gifting is a really small part of the total number of transactions, certainly not enough to risk undoing the progress that has been made in cooling down the economy.

Gifting can be simply implemented by making gifted items bound to legacy. That stops non credit items from being traded as a defacto currency. 

[DWho]

Just now, TrixxieTriss said:

Gifting can be simply implemented by making gifted items bound to legacy. That stops non credit items from being traded as a defacto currency. 

I agree with you on that approach. The legacy binding is a requirement for any sort of "free gifting". Perhaps a check-box in the transaction window. If you allow the item to bind to legacy, the transaction is tax-free. If not, you (the receiving party) pay the full tax. People giving away items shouldn't have to worry about the tax then and it's all on the receiving party on whether they want it bound or not and pay the appropriate price. That takes care of CM items, and with that under control, runaway prices on some mats and crafted items should also decline.

[TrixxieTriss]

4 minutes ago, DWho said:

I agree with you on that approach. The legacy binding is a requirement for any sort of "free gifting". Perhaps a check-box in the transaction window. If you allow the item to bind to legacy, the transaction is tax-free. If not, you (the receiving party) pay the full tax.

It would also need to include no transaction of credits or swapping items in a barter arrangement during the trade. If you just added that into the coding, you wouldn’t need a check box.

Edited August 27, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[DWho]

9 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It would also need to include no transaction of credits or swapping items in a barter arrangement during the trade. If you just added that into the coding, you wouldn’t need a check box.

So if there are no credits and no items included, it is automatically bound to legacy? I assume then that if credits or items are included, the full tax would be due for the transaction to proceed (whatever the current tax for the items traded are) and the item would remain unbound.

[Spikanor]

19 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I’ve been discussing the inflation problem on the forums for 4 years now. 

we have the inflation problem so long all since the devs have add the credit boosters reward in the game since there have mess is up big time with it since what plan was with it has become so worse in the end that we have that problem.

why you think the game has make a lot of credits in the first place since somebody has boost it a lot for a long time also.

and at the same time the credit booster has been on there have also remove some of the credit sinks also at the same time.

26 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

As well as increase the GTN sales cap to be the same as the credit limit a character can hold. 

i have been asking all for a long time to remove the stupid credit limit for pref status players and you know also how the feedback was from other players i got about it here is the link from my thread 4 years ago.

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/888417-remove-credits-limit-for-free-to-play-and-preferred-players/#comment-9460488

its not a bad idea now to remove the credit limit since it can fix the inflation also a lot without adding any type tax.

[TrixxieTriss]

42 minutes ago, DWho said:

So if there are no credits and no items included, it is automatically bound to legacy? I assume then that if credits or items are included, the full tax would be due for the transaction to proceed (whatever the current tax for the items traded are) and the item would remain unbound.

Exactly 👍

[denavin]

The Tax system currently in place is taking credits from the wrong players.

I had a character with a little over 100,000 credits, I had to travel to 6 different planets for a mission. That cost me 30,000 credits @5000 credits a trip, or 30% of my total income at that point.

A character with 1,000,000,000 credits has over 1 million time the wealth I have. That player paying the same amount to travel to the same 6 planets would pay less than 1% of their income.

How is that an even or equitable tax rate for me compared to them.

The tax system needs to be changed to that players with MORE credits pay a higher tax then players with fewer credits. That way the people with the vast amounts of credits will pay the majority of the tax instead if screwing over the players with little to no credits.

I have 32 characters, out of ALL of my characters I have about 25 million total but pay the same tax as players with Billions of credits which takes more of my total credits than it does for them.

The Dev's have now made it impossible for me to use the features and do things in the game that I could before because it will now cause me to loose more credits that I can afford to just to use these features such as Quick Travel. Taking credits from new players will not give them the incentive to continue to play or to stay with SWToR. Getting "Zero" rewards will not make a player want play just to play the game when it cost them more to play the game than they will make from the game. This will also drive away players as much as poor programing and bugs will.

Edited August 27, 2023 by denavin