A letter to the Devs: Please, Stop Dumbing the game down

[Spikanor]

9 minutes ago, Jdast said:

Which is far more than you need to establish statistical significance, the baseline for which is 0.05 percent.

Even if you don't believe that Steam numbers reflect a broader trend, losing 3300 players in three months is troubling in its own right.

Dasty

losing 3300 players in 3 month's is not good news at all since losing that much players so fast means something is really going good wrong with the game.

and i know for sure that the 7.3 is the reason why a lot of players left so fast in 3 month's.

steam or not the real nummbers is something we never going to see at all since who knows some people from the 3300 have switch from steam version to the client version who knows.

still losing that much players all is a sign there need to see from its going to wrong way with the game now and not most keep following the same stupid way is not going to help since it has only give more worse effect's then doing good.

thats why one of the things there need to do now is listing to the feedbacks we give about there idea's for the next update or expension so that there not make things more worse then there are now again.

[SentinalMasterWW]

Appreciate the attention this post is getting and the discussions in it! 

I want to add some stuff or clarify some things, 

The falling player count is using Steam Charts, While not 100% accurate to the actual player population especially to those using the Launcher, It still shows a troubling trend. The game is on a downward spiral of loosing players. I'm not sure if 7.4 is coming out this holiday season, but If it does any boost any players will be for like a month and thats it. The reason I think we are seeing this downward trend is simple, 

No Endgame Content, 

Or should I say lack of meaningful endgame content. 

Say what you will about 6.0, but getting the legendary armor sets for the set bonus stuff, actually gave endgame players something to grind for, especially some of them that were locked in Operations. It gave purpose to doing endgame content. 

Now its just getting tech frags and gear to break down into mods. 

You can get those gear by running a Vet/MM flashpoint, or even a story mode. There is no incentive to do the harder endgame content anymore. 

Endgame PVP isn't faring any better, If you want to know more, As I stated go check out Cease's post I linked the Original Post, short version the PVP community is dying a painful death. 

A lot of the SWTOR Community has left or has stopped caring, a majority of the SWTOR content creators left, Why? 

There is no substance in SWTOR anymore.

-Classes were prunned and lost any complexity via removal of their abilites and locking in tree's, making players give up Defensives just for basic things like mobility or a CC. 

-Gearing was made more complicated and stupid in 7.0, than the simple 6.0 gearing system. 

-Levelling alts is boring, I go 20 levels without getting anything of substance. 

-Renown and the system of rewarding players who hit the level cap are gone, so there is barely any rewards you get for completing activities late game. 

There is more, but I'd be retreading waters I stated in the OG Post. 

If there are those who are enjoying the 7.0 Changes, I'm glad you can find some fun in the game. 

In regards to making the game more Accessible and easier with prunning, etc, when I came back to the game, I played Tactics Vanguard on my Trooper, No Guides or anything, it was simple to understand what does what, mainly cause if you hover your mouse over the ability it tells you what it does. I beat all 8 class stories without any guides or anything, The Game is not that hard if that is what the Dev's are concerned about. 

The Dev's need to stop trying to cater to a niche community that is not there, the community that doesn't want to play SWTOR. The Dev's need to cater to their fans, the ones who played the Beta, The Launch, Rise of the hutt cartel all the way through to today. Literal Guilds and friends have stopped talking to each other and playing this game. They got bored and moved onto better games and other MMO's, Games that listen to what the fans want. 

I cross posted the OG on Reddit and this response was interesting 

Quote

It's funny you mention Fallout 76 having more players than Swtor. I actually went over to Fallout 76 three years ago when I started stepping away from swtor and I love that game. Is it perfect? No, of course not. But at least I feel like the devs actually listen to the players (most of the time). Hell they even regularly implement player feedback in game, something the swtor devs would never do. I would love to come back to swtor, but I don't think that's ever gonna happen, not with the current dev team in place that seems intent in running this game into the ground.

To the Dev's you literally have fans that WANT TO COME BACK TO THE GAME , but don't want to because of poor decisions and not listening to the community.  

[TrixxieTriss]

7 hours ago, xordevoreaux said:

Care to cite your source on this? Because the game developer does not and has never released official player participation numbers.

Any number you pull out of the air won't be verifiable, but anecdotal.

The only way we can see population trends since BW removed server numbers is via Steam Charts

https://steamcharts.com/app/1286830#1m

Sure, it’s not 100% because it only shows Steam players, but it does show the “population trends”. 

As you can see in the Steam Charts, there has been a steady decline in population since the last few weeks of PvP Season 2. 

7.3 & the start of PvP Season 3 didn’t actually boost population at all. In fact, if you look at the Steam Charts, the population actually declined. So it’s fair to say, the whole game probably saw a decline. 

edit: I would say there are 3 main issues that stand out above all others. 

1. PvP seasons has been a failure to lure new or old players back to the game to PvP. In fact, it’s actually driven away a large majority of dedicated pvpers.

BioWare were warned this would happen around season 3 “IF” they didn’t address the 3 biggest issues with PvP Seasons. 

* 8 Man Premades  

* No skill based seasons rewards for winning and improving 

* Bad or non existent matchmaking that also puts premades against solo players because of it.

2. The heavy handed & backwards approach to tackling inflation was the next. And yes inflation urgently needed to be addressed.

* But not giving players an avenue to send gifts to friends or new players was the last straw for many. Being taxed ridiculous amounts for gifting didn’t need to happen. Many of us gave the devs feedback & ideas on how they could still allow gifting, while also closing the tax loopholes. 

* Not increasing the GTN sales cap & not increasing the Preferred/F2P players buying cap has also negatively affected these changes. 

3. The announcement that BioWare would no longer be the developer & how it was leaked has also negatively affected player retention & confidence. Sure, that wasn’t their fault, but there’s been a real lack of communication since then. The usual promises have been made & they have a flurry of posts for a day & then it’s dead silence again. Sadly, it isn’t enough to convince players that the game isn’t  about to fall into oblivion. 

The game will continue to bleed players until the Devs address these 3 main issues in actions or communication. 
 

Edited August 25, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[xordevoreaux]

4. BG3.

 

[Samcuu]

First off if u study the steam charts the ebbs and flows of the population these days revolves around galactic seasons. The peak in the last few months was when season 4 launched and as ppl finish it they don't play as much. Add to that BG3 is the best game of the year or maybe last 5 years (based on reviews I don't play it) and ur losing a lot of ur player base to a different rpg for now. 

Anyways the numbers you see are the ppl who are logging in to play. That doesn't mean those extra 1500 ppl who were playing in June, and not currently, all unsubbed. They could have but it's conjecture to assume that they have anyways. 

I'm not too concerned tbh when season 5 launched and BG3 hype dies down you'll see the population start climbing again. 

[Jdast]

1 hour ago, Samcuu said:

First off if u study the steam charts the ebbs and flows of the population these days revolves around galactic seasons. The peak in the last few months was when season 4 launched and as ppl finish it they don't play as much. Add to that BG3 is the best game of the year or maybe last 5 years (based on reviews I don't play it) and ur losing a lot of ur player base to a different rpg for now. 

Anyways the numbers you see are the ppl who are logging in to play. That doesn't mean those extra 1500 ppl who were playing in June, and not currently, all unsubbed. They could have but it's conjecture to assume that they have anyways. 

I'm not too concerned tbh when season 5 launched and BG3 hype dies down you'll see the population start climbing again. 

The data in no way support your argument. 

1) You are ignoring the severity of the decline.

You are correct there is an initial burst of enthusiasm when a new Galactic Season launches, but the number of players dissipates, particularly as we advance further in time.

For ease of argument, let's take Galactic Season #1, which ended on September 28th, 2021. At that date, SWTOR ended with an average of 6,465 players on Steam. We just finished Galactic Season #4, which ended on August 14, 2023. So far in August, the average number of players is 3,602 on Steam.

There is no way to spin those numbers in a positive light and suggest it is mostly, much less mainly, about Galactic Seasons.

2) The impact of Baldur's Gate 3 (BG3).

BG3 was released on the PC on August 3, 2023 -- 3 weeks ago. I love it and play it. But there is no way you can account for BG3 impacting SWTOR for June and July, which saw Steam numbers collapse by over 40 percent. One can say ESO released Necrom (a very good expansion which I love) and Diablo IV (which I tried and sadly hated), but...

Even if your argument about Galactic Seasons is correct for an initial burst...it fundamentally does not account for a decline of the degree of magnitude we have observed.

3) Players may still give SWTOR sub money but not play.

Well, sure, but I think it is a safer bet to say that players are not going to subscribe to a game they don't play. 

Time will tell.

Dasty

Edited August 25, 2023 by Jdast

[Spikanor]

5 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Not increasing the GTN sales cap & not increasing the Preferred/F2P players buying cap has also negatively affected these changes.

you mean by this more that the credit cap preferred and F2P players have from 1 mill is now also hurting the game and needs to be remove more so that there are going to spent a lot of credits in the game what are higher then 1 mill?

so that means more open the credit cap discusion again for preferred and F2P since its now hurting the game?

5 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Many of us gave the devs feedback & ideas on how they could still allow gifting, while also closing the tax loopholes.

but this is wierd about the feedback we give the devs more and idea's

if we give feedback about the gelactic seasons there listing to it and do something with it.

other feedback gets compleet ignore and there are not listing at all.

same with the idea's for the gelactic season there listing and do something with it but idea's for other parts of the game or problems get compleet ignore.

maybe the devs need to open there eye's more since if this game become's death and closed there are the one's that lose there job.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Spikanor

[Toraak]

15 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

That is correct.  However that doesn't mean that people won't use Steam player activity data and apply it to the game's entire player base regardless of that fact.   

The question about what percentage of SWTOR's player base uses the Steam version of the game client is one that does not have a conclusive answer.  However if a recent poll conducted on the /r/swtor subreddit is accurate then the majority of SWTOR's players use the Steam client.  In my opinion that gives Steam player activity data much more weight and if Steam data shows a significant downtrend (>10%) then it's likely standard client player is trending down as well.  Only the devs and EA have the actual numbers but of course they will not share those with us because they don't want players to focus on the negative more than they already do.

I wouldn't put stock into a reddit poll. Not everyone uses reddit, just like not everyone uses Steam for swtor. Both the poll, and the steam numbers only show part of the facts when it comes to population.

 

While I don't doubt numbers are decreasing recently, I believe it had to do with multiple facters. First it's summer time in the US, and those number always go down during this time of the year. Secondly many people were in a panic about the whole Broadsword change, so I'm sure that cost some subs as well. The biggest reason I can see for the decrease is simple however. Many people are playing other games right now. New releases like Baldur's Gate 3 came out about a month ago, and I know of a lot of swtor players (myself included) that are playing that game. Is it possible many have unsubscribed to swtor because they know they are going to spend practically no time in swtor? Absolutely. This doesn't necessarily mean they won't resub.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Toraak

[OlBuzzard]

35 minutes ago, Toraak said:

I wouldn't put stock into a reddit poll. Not everyone uses reddit, just like not everyone uses Steam for swtor. Both the poll, and the steam numbers only show part of the facts when it comes to population.

 

While I don't doubt numbers are decreasing recently, I believe it had to do with multiple facters. First it's summer time in the US, and those number always go down during this time of the year. Secondly many people were in a panic about the whole Broadsword change, so I'm sure that cost some subs as well. The biggest reason I can see for the decrease is simple however. Many people are playing other games right now. New releases like Baldur's Gate 3 came out about a month ago, and I know of a lot of swtor players (myself included) that are playing that game. Is it possible many have unsubscribed to swtor because they know they are going to spend practically no time in swtor? Absolutely. This doesn't necessarily mean they won't resub.

A lot of truth in your evaluation save one thing:  perhaps the conclusion.  (Not saying that you are entirely wrong) .. BUT also consider the fact that in all probability fewer people will continue to return if there is less and less and less to return for.  And (in all probability) those that do return ... will be for a shorter period of time.  In this case less is NOT more.

F2P ... or preferred numbers "could" possibly grow (maybe ... kind of ... sort of ?????? ).  But traditionally most business models that are looking for any real growth are not going to depend on that part of the game clientele to support it well enough to keep it going.

And that leads me to the question that has been on the forums since the big announcement (AKA unexpected leak).  Broadsword?  Good or bad?  I took another 6 mos. subscription to see first-hand what is going to unfold.  The ball is squarely in the teams court now.  And time will tell the truth whether that be good for SWTOR or not!

[Pirana]

That ship sailed a long time ago. From the moment they allowed the player to toggle a companion's set role, for some of you out there, a companion only had one role, healer, tank or dps, you couldn't right click the portrait and change it. Then in their infinite wisdom thought it was a good idea put those companions on steroids, only having to nerf them into the ground, then buff them again. The comps were so hopped up, the player didn't have to do much, other than engage in combat. The role change was good, but juicing the comps up that much displays an overall lack of understanding on how things work in the MMO world and it hasn't changed since.

Two steps forward, one step back is their slogan. 

[Samcuu]

8 hours ago, Jdast said:

You are correct there is an initial burst of enthusiasm when a new Galactic Season launches, but the number of players dissipates, particularly as we advance further in time.

Yes of course I'm correct because Galactic Seasons is the one bit of consistent content the game gets. So ppl log into play Galactic Seasons and when they finish they end up playing less until the new season. The population spikes when a new season drops and then it dips a couple months later. It's supported on the steam charts. 7.2 was a major story patch it brought like 1k more ppl on average back to playing the game. The average population jumped by 2k when season 4 released and dwindled a few months after that. 

Besides that point it's not just one thing that makes the population go up. The population went up when new content was released and its now been 8 months since any major content bar pvp season 3 (which doesn't move the needle because less than 10% of the game population even play the game for pvp). So shock and horror... content for the game makes ppl log in and play and when they finish content they play other games or log in less. 7.3 is about to drop with a new season and idk what else story wise tbh. My assumption is that the population will go back up. We do agree on thing tho, time will in fact tell. 

Edit: mb 7.3 dropped in June which was the Voss update. So the fact that the pop went down a bit that month compared with the previous months actually supports my theory that galactic seasons is the driver here.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Samcuu

[Char_Ell]

50 minutes ago, Toraak said:

I wouldn't put stock into a reddit poll. Not everyone uses reddit, just like not everyone uses Steam for swtor. Both the poll, and the steam numbers only show part of the facts when it comes to population.

I'm curious how you feel about polls in general then.  Full disclosure: I'm the one that created the Reddit poll I mentioned because the question of what percentage of SWTOR's population uses Steam versus standard had come up a number of times and there was no data available.  While I agree that not everyone uses Reddit there is no way I can think of to use a probability based sampling method to get the desired data.  However when the poll has 2,902 responses with 1,721 respondents (59%) indicating they use the Steam client to play SWTOR I think that gives the poll statistical significance.  If I use a sample size calculator with a 99% confidence level target, 500,000 as the total population (I think I'm being very generous with that number), and a 3% margin of error the calculator indicates the ideal sample size is 1,836 people.  Still, this is only one poll and if I still have the motivation to do so I will conduct another one in November with an altered poll design that will allow respondents to self-identify as active or inactive players in addition to which SWTOR client they use.

[Samcuu]

1 minute ago, Char_Ell said:

I'm curious how you feel about polls in general then.  Full disclosure: I'm the one that created the Reddit poll I mentioned because the question of what percentage of SWTOR's population uses Steam versus standard had come up a number of times and there was no data available.  While I agree that not everyone uses Reddit there is no way I can think of to use a probability based sampling method to get the desired data.  However when the poll has 2,902 responses with 1,721 respondents (59%) indicating they use the Steam client to play SWTOR I think that gives the poll statistical significance.  If I use a sample size calculator with a 99% confidence level target, 500,000 as the total population (I think I'm being very generous with that number), and a 3% margin of error the calculator indicates the ideal sample size is 1,836 people.  Still, this is only one poll and if I still have the motivation to do so I will conduct another one in November with an altered poll design that will allow respondents to self-identify as active or inactive players in addition to which SWTOR client they use.

There have been other polls done btw. There was a Twitter poll from a swtor podcast (that had a significant number of votes) showing a 60 - 40 split. 60% using the swtor launcher and 40% using steam. This was a poll from a year ago or so, and I imagine word is getting out that the steam launcher is overall much more reliable. I'd be comfortable saying it's probably close to 50 - 50. 

[Jdast]

2 hours ago, Samcuu said:

Yes of course I'm correct because Galactic Seasons is the one bit of consistent content the game gets. So ppl log into play Galactic Seasons and when they finish they end up playing less until the new season. The population spikes when a new season drops and then it dips a couple months later. It's supported on the steam charts. 7.2 was a major story patch it brought like 1k more ppl on average back to playing the game. The average population jumped by 2k when season 4 released and dwindled a few months after that. 

Besides that point it's not just one thing that makes the population go up. The population went up when new content was released and its now been 8 months since any major content bar pvp season 3 (which doesn't move the needle because less than 10% of the game population even play the game for pvp). So shock and horror... content for the game makes ppl log in and play and when they finish content they play other games or log in less. 7.3 is about to drop with a new season and idk what else story wise tbh. My assumption is that the population will go back up. We do agree on thing tho, time will in fact tell. 

Flatly incorrect. You can't account for variation either inter or intra-Galactic Seasons. 

Season 1: April 27 – September 28, 2021 (ended)

--Number of Players: 6,465

Season 2: February 15 – July 4, 2022 (ended)

--Number of Players: 5,701

Season 3: October 20, 2022 – March 6, 2023 (ended)

--Number of Players: 4,264 

Season 4: March 28, 2023 – August 14, 2023  (ended)

--Number of Players: 3585

You keep saying there is a burst at the beginning of a Galactic Season. I don't see anyone, much less me, disagreeing with you. The far more important question, however, isn't where you start, but where you finish. And the numbers above are dispositive.

Moreover, as Sentinel posted in his OP, patch 7.3 (aka Old Wounds) including new quests on Voss and a new Flashpoint (Shrine of Silence) was released on June 13, 2023. This corresponded with a catastrophic freefall of over 40% for June and July 2023. The obvious conclusion is that Old Wounds (i.e., new content) didn't attract or even stabillize the population. You went from 6,938 average Steam players at the end of May 2023 to the current number of 3585. 

Put bluntly Old Wounds didn't do much healing. The numbers don't lie.

Dasty

Edited August 25, 2023 by Jdast

[Samcuu]

5 minutes ago, Jdast said:

6,938 average

The month after gs season 4 btw lol. Also it's not like there isn't precedence for the low pop numbers. It was around 3.5k last fall and it jumped back up to almost 7k when we got a story patch and new seasons. Again not just one way to skin a cat.  Theme park mmos require content and lots of it to keep a player base around. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Samcuu

[Jdast]

5 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

The month after gs season 4 btw lol. 

Let's just agree to disagree. You simply can't account for why there was higher player retention after all three previous Galactic Seasons which showed a progressive and steady decline. You also can't explain the failure of 7.3 to witness even a modest boost of player activity, but instead a decline of over 40 percent. If you think the SWTOR team is happy that the retention rate has deteriorated so markedly there isn't really much point in continuing this aspect of the discussion.

Peace out,

Dasty

Edited August 25, 2023 by Jdast

[Samcuu]

Just now, Jdast said:

Let's just agree to disagree. You simply can't account for why there was higher play retention after all three previous Galactic Seasons which showed a progressive and steady decline. You also can't explain the failure of 7.3 to witness even a modest boost of player activity, but instead a decline of over 40 percent. If you think the SWTOR team is happy that the retention rate has deteriorated so markedly there isn't really much point in continuing this aspect of the discussion.

Peace out,

Dasty

Okay disagree with me all u want but the point I made from the start is that galactic seasons has a history of being the driver for the population, and the numbers back that up (which u even posted btw to prove my point) I never said a new Flashpoint or small story update will move mountains. The rhunuk story bought a lot of ppl back but that was a much bigger story and a new planet with new dailies ect. Kinda disingenuous to compare that to the shrine of silence story or whatever. 

Anyways I don't disagree with you about the player retention. The devs could do a lot of things to help keep those ppl playing consistently which is what the op's point was and the general consensus on 7.0 is that it's disliked (even tho i dont see a massive difference from 6.0 but thats just my opinion i know im in the minority on that). The story and seasons will bring ppl back in, up to the devs to improve the game to make sure ppl stay. Gearing and stuff like that is a nightmare for a lot of players, you'd be surprised how many vets of the game I've had to walk through the Hyde and Zeeke Gearing quest for example. 

[Lord_Malganus]

Due to the rich history of development blunders in SWTOR, Old Wounds could not have been more aptly named.

Time for a new Star Wars MMO made by a different company and development team.

[Pirana]

1 minute ago, Lord_Malganus said:

Due to the rich history of development blunders in SWTOR, Old Wounds could not have been more aptly named.

 

Nailed it. lol 

[Spikanor]

15 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Renown and the system of rewarding players who hit the level cap are gone, so there is barely any rewards you get for completing activities late game.

and since you reach max level all fast if you do all the missions or have a lot of rest exp is it then not fun anymore to play that character at all.

i still also not understand why remove something what was a good thing to have in the first place.

 

15 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Gearing was made more complicated and stupid in 7.0, than the simple 6.0 gearing system. 

100% agree with this point since the new gearing system suxs still.

[OlBuzzard]

2 hours ago, Jdast said:

Flatly incorrect. You can't account for variation intra-Galactic Seasons. 

Season 1: April 27 – September 28, 2021 (ended)

--Number of Players: 6,465

Season 2: February 15 – July 4, 2022 (ended)

--Number of Players: 5,701

Season 3: October 20, 2022 – March 6, 2023 (ended)

--Number of Players: 4,264 

Season 4: March 28, 2023 – August 14, 2023  (ended)

--Number of Players: 3585

You keep saying there is a burst at the beginning of a Galactic Season. I don't see anyone, much less me, disagreeing with you. The far more important question, however, isn't where you start, but where you finish. And the numbers above are dispositive.

Moreover, as Sentinel posted in his OP, patch 7.3 (aka Old Wounds) including new quests on Voss and a new Flashpoint (Shrine of Silence) was released on June 13, 2023. This corresponded with a catastrophic freefall of over 40% for June and July 2023. The obvious conclusion is that Old Wounds (i.e., new content) didn't attract or even stabillize the population. You went from 6,938 average Steam players at the end of May 2023 to the current number of 3585. 

Put bluntly Old Wounds didn't do much healing. The numbers don't lie.

Dasty

Reads numbers .. shakes head negatively in disbelief.  Reads a second time (just to make sure).

GOOD GRIEF !!!  I don't care if the numbers were TWICE that!  OUCH!!

.... [/shrugs] ...

Oh well!  I guess that explains a few things.  

... still stunned!

🤦‍♂️

 

[sharpenedstick]

<enable Caballero Blanco mode>

But...but...Steam player counts aren't all the players!!! You didn't see yesterday on fleet there were TWO WHOLE INSTANCES (second instance only had three people, but still counts)!!!

Only a tiny minority of players posts on the forums to complain. The vast silent majority love everything the devs have done!

KotET/KotFE was great! I loved how powerful I felt beating an IMMORTAL GALAXY EATING FORCE GHOST. Eliminating class stories was the right move, I was getting too confused by how many stories there were! The gearing system constantly changes is dynamic and refreshes the game! Galactic Seasons is exciting content! No new rewards to GSF, BBA, Gree, Space Missions, Rakghoul is great because it provides consistency which players need (except in gearing systems)! Story bits coming out once a year and consisting of 30 minutes of game play is great because it gives everyone plenty of time to see it with all eight classes (even though it is the same now since everything is pigeonholed into one story. One AWESOME story)!

The lack of dev communication is exciting because we never know what's not coming!

</disable Caballero Blanco mode>

Edited August 25, 2023 by sharpenedstick

[Otowi]

Can't say that I'm shocked at the player decline. 

Some of the changes the devs have made over the years have been... questionable to say the least. Some changes like being able to play the story lines with a new spec was a good one, but then they had to muck about with the skill trees, and in some cases took the pruning a bit too far in the wrong direction.

But one of the main things for me is the constant lack of communication from the devs. If the Force is with us, we get some info, but usually it's not.

They need to learn that communication and transparency is extremely important for the player base to start trusting them again.

One example is when @KeithKanneg talked about a great vision for the game, but then fails to follow through with telling us a bit more in detail about that vision. We do not need to know about the story lines, I get that they want to keep that under wraps, but some general info would be great. 

Not to mention what they promised would be a great 10 year anniversary celebration, and that turned out to be a lot of hot air, with very little to show for it, which left many long term players dissapointed, wanting for more.

[sharpenedstick]

If Steam represents half the player base, then the numbers of concurrent players are already below the 10k that was so disastrous for SWG that Smedly had to publicly deny to CBS that the population was so low.

Even if Steam is only 25% of the player base, that would place the active population only a little above it. This game is clearly destined for maintenance mode, if it isn't in it already.

That doesn't mean there can't still be good things. But the devs have to be realistic about what they can achieve. Their own little pet projects and moon shots need to give way to QoL improvements, bug fixes, and easy content updates like adding new rewards to existing systems.

[Char_Ell]

43 minutes ago, Otowi said:

But one of the main things for me is the constant lack of communication from the devs. If the Force is with us, we get some info, but usually it's not.

They need to learn that communication and transparency is extremely important for the player base to start trusting them again.

One example is when @KeithKanneg talked about a great vision for the game, but then fails to follow through with telling us a bit more in detail about that vision. We do not need to know about the story lines, I get that they want to keep that under wraps, but some general info would be great. 

Not to mention what they promised would be a great 10 year anniversary celebration, and that turned out to be a lot of hot air, with very little to show for it, which left many long term players dissapointed, wanting for more.

While I agree that the 10th year anniversary year long celebration fell short would you care to elaborate on what part of Keith Kanneg's vision for the game needs to have more detail?  The server transition to AWS is in process, DirectX 12 is also planned, 7.3.1 at end of summer (narrowed down to late August/early September but looks like it's going to be the latter option), 7.4 with story update for the 2023 year-end holidays.  More QoL improvements like the quick travel change that the devs previewed for 7.3.1.  It seems to me that the dev team has revealed a lot more of their plans than they have in the year previous to June.  I attribute this increase in plan reveals to players' vocalizing their concerns about SWTOR transitioning from BioWare to Broadsword.  No idea if this advance communication of future plans will continue or not.