Play a jedi knight with sorcerer skills: rp/lore problem?

[Draksen]

Hey there

I'm back in the game after a very long break and I wanted to start a fresh toon. I like the jedi knight story (and the fact that it's a jedi knight, sounds cool and lore wise interesting) but I also like the sorcerer combat skills, so I decided to make a Jedi knight using sorcerer skills.

It's unlocked, everything is fine but I was wondering... how could I justify it? Is it even possible to fight with lightning as a jedi? I mean in term of lore, or rp, do we have something close to it? Or is it totally silly to make such a toon?

Thanks for your comments and suggestions :)

[ThanderSnB]

Lorewise, I think lightning pretty much requires the user to be dark side. If you want to be consistent with that, you could play as a Jedi class, pick dark side choices along the way, and switch to Sorcerer after chapter 2 because it makes a lot of sense after chapter 2. (Be sure to hold onto the mission for the second combat style until this point.)

[Samcuu]

Jolee Bindo from kotor 1 is a jedi who used force lightning. He removed himself from the Jedi order because he had a disagreement with their beliefs so he attuned himself to both sides of the force and was more balanced.

If you go back to the ancient Jedi that inhabited Tython before they made contact with the infinite empire, they also believed in having a full knowledge of the force. Ashla was the light side, Bogan the dark side, but they strived for Bendu meaning balance. 

This is now defunct Canon but it was legends material before the Disney takeover. None of it has been disputed in real Canon up to this point tho iirc. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Samcuu

[microstyles]

Not an expert so I'll just go with what I know from the movies. We generally only see lightning used by powerful dark-side users. One exception is when Rey uses it on accident.

Something I'm not so sure about is why. It seems to be very painful when Palpatine uses it on Luke, so it's inherent cruelty could be one reason. The fact that Rey uses it on accident makes me wonder if it's difficult to control safely, which could be another reason.

I haven't finished the knight story, but generally it seems to have the knight focusing on thwarting very dangerous and evil plans of the empire.

Rationalizing the history of force lightning with that story is a matter of imagination in my mind. For a mostly LS knight, maybe it's a lightning technique that is more controllable and less cruel (it just has to be no more cruel than bashing with giant rocks or slicing up with a saber to be lore-friendly). For a more DS knight, maybe they know it's cruel, but justify it's use against evil as a powerful deterrent.

[Traceguy]

18 hours ago, Draksen said:

Is it even possible to fight with lightning as a jedi? I mean in term of lore, or rp, do we have something close to it? Or is it totally silly to make such a toon?

Why wouldn't it be? Lightning is a force power, and Jedi have the force. Also, Kyle Katarn uses force lightning.

[xordevoreaux]

18 hours ago, Draksen said:

how could I justify it?

That's your prerogative to resolve, no one on these forums can coach you to a correct answer; it's your answer to find.

Head canon for one player is not the next player's. Personally, I don't even begin to experience the issue you raise with combat styles applied to opposite-faction origin stories.

[denavin]

I not only have Light Side Jedi that use Force Lightning but they are also Pureblood Sith too. Do what you want.

[DreadtechSavant]

It won't be lore, no Jedi don't do that. Which is why it was not allowed to begin with.

After 10 years though for most it won't be there first Jedi character so really make little difference to most players.

However if you are new to the game or coming back to the game and lore is required, even if only for your own enjoyment, Then switch back, You posted here, so are a sub, you can have the choice between two skill classes. 

Just remember if you ever unsub, make sure you have the class skill set to what you want to keep. As when you unsub you can no longer change class. Remember class and skill tree are not the same.

[TziganeNZ]

3 hours ago, DreadtechSavant said:

<snip> You posted here, so are a sub, <snip>

Preferred can post also. I was still posting here while preferred.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

On 6/30/2023 at 1:19 PM, Samcuu said:

Jolee Bindo from kotor 1 is a jedi who used force lightning. He removed himself from the Jedi order because he had a disagreement with their beliefs so he attuned himself to both sides of the force and was more balanced.

If you go back to the ancient Jedi that inhabited Tython before they made contact with the infinite empire, they also believed in having a full knowledge of the force. Ashla was the light side, Bogan the dark side, but they strived for Bendu meaning balance. 

This is now defunct Canon but it was legends material before the Disney takeover. None of it has been disputed in real Canon up to this point tho iirc. 

Actually pal, that's a misconception. That was never canon. The Expanded Universe was never part of the Official Canon when Lucas owned Star Wars. Lucas was very vocal on this point (as were many others in Star Wars) as they're was some confusion about it early on, but it was addressed in spades.  You really gotta be careful what you take to heart from people on message boards that don't source anything. The fact that it wasn't ever canon is stated directly in the Disney announcement.

- Some quotes below.

"While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align."

~ Lucasfilm, 2014

https://www.starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page

 

..

'There's a lot of debate about the fact whether the Expanded Universe was canon or not. Since you were the director of Publishing, I hope you can give the final answer to that question.'

"Our Expanded Universe books and comics were never intended to be canon. Only what George wrote was canon. We tried to keep an internal consistency so our writers did not contradict anything that George had created or anything any of our other writers had added."

Lucy Autrey Wilson
Star Wars Interviews, 2022

..

"I get asked all the time, 'What happens after "Return of the Jedi"?,' and there really is no answer for that," he said. "The movies were the story of Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker, and when Luke saves the galaxy and redeems his father, that's where that story ends.""

~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, May 2008, "George Lucas: 'Star Wars' won't go beyond Darth Vader", interview with Los Angeles Times

Star Wars Insider 108, 2009

Full Page - https://ibb.co/7tBy5VK

..

"And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married."

~ George Lucas,Total Film Magazine Interview, 2008
https://ibb.co/x5q1RrQ

..

"There's this notion that everything changed when everything became Legends. And I can see why people think that. But, you know, having worked with George I can tell you that it was always very clear -- and he made it very clear -- that the films and the TV shows were the only things that he considered Canon. That was it."

Dave Filoni interview on 'The Star Wars show' [41.40 mark]-

https://youtu.be/hcNXPNXOv2A?t=2500

..

'In 2014, Disney declared the Expanded Universe was no longer canon. It became ‘Legends’. What do you think of this, seeing all of your work suddenly become non-canon?'

“Those of us writing the EU were always told, all along, from the very beginning (have I stressed that strongly enough?), “Only the Movies are Canon.”  Sure, it was disappointing.”

~ Kathy Tyers, EU author [Truce at Bakura, Balance Point] Interview, 2018

http://starwarsinterviews.com/various/authors/kathy-tyers-author/

 

..

Podcast Interview with Steve Perry, Author of Shadows of the Empire from the Expanded Universe -

Interviewer - 'So what are your thoughts about your book and all the ones that came other than this last year are no longer part of the Official Star Wars Canon ever since Disney took over?

Steve Perry - "Ohh they never were! Nothing was ever canon other than the movies."

The Ritual Misery Podcast with hosts Amos and Kent, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2569&v=opbMcVJolSA&feature=emb_logo

..

"But Lucas allows for an Expanded Universe that exists parallel to the one he directly oversees. […] Though these [Expanded Universe] stories may get his stamp of approval, they don’t enter his canon unless they are depicted cinematically in one of his projects.”

  ~ Pablo Hidalgo, Star Wars: The Essential Reader’s Companion, Oct. 2nd 2012

..

“There are two worlds here,” explained Lucas. “There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books."

~ George Lucas Interview, Cinescape Magazine, 2002

..

"He [Lucas] only considers his movies and TV projects as his universe, and told the Clone Wars writers to only worry about those."

'How involved was he [Lucas] for stories in other media?'
'Not Very'
'That's how I always felt and why I never read much of the EU. If it wasn't from George, it didn't hold much water for me'
'He held the same opinion 😃

~ Pablo Hidalgo

https://i.redd.it/3fpbkocr43q01.png

..

"What George did with the films and The Clone Wars was pretty much his universe ,” Chee said. “He didn’t really have that much concern for what we were doing in the books and games. So the Expanded Universe was very much separate."

 

~ Leland Chee, Continuity Database Adminstrator for Lucas Licensing, SYFY WIRE Fandom Files #13 Interview,Jan.2018

https://ibb.co/r2SvbBP

..

"I don't read that stuff, I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try and keep it consistent. The way I do it is they have a Star Wars encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it and see if it has already been used. When I said other people could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have TWO universes: My Universe and than this other one. They try to make THEIR universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

~ George Lucas Starlog Magazine Interview, 2005 - https://ibb.co/Km1CcNs

..

'And what goes in the blank timeline spaces of the Film Only universe - can we never know the history or background of that Star Wars universe like we can in the EU Star Wars universe?'

"Nothing. That's why it's film only."

~ Leland Chee, Continuity Database Administrator for Lucas Licensing,StarWars.com, Jan. 2nd 2007

https://ibb.co/84z7rwM

 

..

"So do episodes beyond Return of the Jedi exist? Nothing beyond possible story points and ideas, certainly not fleshed out story treatments or scripts. Fans often wonder if Dark Empire or the Thrawn Trilogy were based off those notes or are meant to be Episodes VII, VIII, IX. - That's not the case. Those works are the creation of their respective authors with the guidance of editors at Lucas Licensing. They are not, nor ever were, meant to be George Lucas' definitive vision of what happens next.""

~ Pablo Hidalgo, 2004 

https://ibb.co/K9PMgH3

..

"I think people over emphasize the importance of the canon level. The intent of the canon levels was, as the main intent was 'if someones looking for the ships from a film, they can than use those fields to check for them only in the films,and thus seperate that from what was in the EU. So we can look at it case by case. I think there is an over emphasis of what those fields mean and what they represent".

~ Leland Chee, Continuity Database Administrator for Lucas Licensing

"That 'level of canon' thus helps in terms of bookkeeping. Those 'canon levels' are for the holocron."

~ Pablo Hidalgo

ForceCast #273: The Galaxy Is Reading - Interview with Leland Chee and Pablo Hidalgo, 2013 Approximately the 1 hour mark so 1:00 - 1:02 mark

http://www.forcecast.net/story/home/ForceCast_273_The_Galaxy_Is_Reading_154431.asp

..

"Q: Do you supervise the development of all the off-movie stories? After all, Star Wars exists in books, comics.

A: "You know, I try not to think about that. I have my own world in movies and I follow it."
 ~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, July 2002 - From a The Force.Net

..

"George Lucas says there has never been any war between the Jedi and the Sith in his Star Wars Canon" - An excerpt from StarWars.com‘s oral history of Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace:

"Everybody said, “Oh, well, there was a war between the Jedi and the Sith.”  Well, that never happened. That’s just made up by fans or somebody. What really happened is, the Sith ruled the universe for a while, 2000 years ago.  Each Sith has an apprentice, but the problem was, each Sith Lord got to be  powerful. And the Sith Lords would try to kill each other because they all  wanted to be the most powerful. So in the end they killed each other off, and  there wasn’t anything left.

"But anyway, there’s a whole matrix of backstory that has never really come out. It’s really just history that I gathered up along the way. It’s all based on backstories that I’d written setting up what the Jedi were, setting up what the Sith were, setting up what the Empire was, setting up what the Republic was, and how it all fit together I never really got a chance to explain the Whills part."

~ George Lucas

George Lucas’ vision of the galaxy’s ancient times is clearly different from the Expanded Universe. Many wars between Jedi and Sith in the Old Republic era were told in games, books and comics. The current Lucasfilm’s canon didn’t explore this era yet.'

https://naboonews.wordpress.com/2019/05/25/george-lucas-says-there-has-never-been-any-war-between-the-jedi-and-the-sith-in-his-canon/

..

I have 100s more quotes but I think this should make it clear. It's a pretty common misconception though.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[eabevella]

Who cares about canon?

You pay for the game, you make story as you see fit.

No old man and no mouse can tell you what is right.

As for lore in game... Consular is pretty much the "sorcerer" class.

If you are talking about Sith sorcerer. You should be worry about how/why does the Jedi Order doesn't know/doesn't care about your toon being a Dark Side Force user.

"Jedi" is a title used by essentially a religious Order. Of course you can use Dark Side power as a Jedi. Being a Jedi doesn't lock you out of Dark Side power. The problem is, why didn't the Jedi dispel you, an apostate out of their Order?

Do your toon hide it? How much freedom are you gonna take with the two Jedi class stories? Those will affect the question I listed earlier and how you could justify it. But it's more of a simple logic question rather than Force lore question.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

1 hour ago, eabevella said:

Who cares about canon?

You pay for the game, you make story as you see fit.

Absolutely. You can head canon whatever you want.

To the OP -

If your a canon die hard like me, there's really no way to spin that concept and it make sense.

But, this game isn't canon anyways. The game does allow it. It's not a concept I personally would be comfortable with, but that's just my opinion. You have your own opinions.

Just head-canon that it's fine. Make up some reason why, maybe as a part of your character's background, maybe he found some ancient knowledge from an old Force tradition, maybe he found some ancient artifact that twists the Force is an unusual way.

You're a role-player and that's all about using your imagination. It's your game, you get to play it your way and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. It only matters what you think.

I'd go with what eabevella suggests. She's fully aware of the Canon and the Lore. If you don't like her suggestion for whatever reason, just make up your own justification for it.

It's a game and games are about having fun. Do what's fun for you. In your game, you're in charge and you get the final say on things.

[TziganeNZ]

@WayOfTheWarriorx I have always been very interested in and appreciative of the depth and breadth of your knowledge.  Truly, I am in awe! 

For this game, though, I'm just happy to have something Star Wars-flavoured.  For me, it doesn't have to follow strictly to the letter of the law in terms of the creator's vision (Lucas), just has to have enough look and feel (i.e. set in a Star Wars universe of some sort) for me to lose myself in a galaxy of Jedi, Sith, smugglers, bounty hunters of all different xenotypes.  My characters all have different back stories about who they are, where they came from and how they ended up on their respective starter planets - head canon is great as it stretches your imagination and lets you be who and what you want to be at any particular point in time.

There's no wrong or right way to play a game like SWTOR - you play it your way, however that suits you.  If you want to follow canon as much as possible, go for it.  If you want to have a Jedi consular shooting Force Lightning, go for it.  And don't forget, if you're subbed to the game, you're paying to play it however you want to.  It's entirely up to you. Do what's fun for you.

Edited July 2, 2023 by TziganeNZ
Grammar....

[bahramnima]

if this game had faction change this would make much more sense, problem is dark side jedi with f...up face and list of people he killed goes back to jedi council and they are like "you are such hero we are proud of you" lol and vice versa, light side sith who let all imp's enemies walk away and forgave them, goes back to dark council and they bow to him lol.

i do not know what is the future with broadsword but i hope they add faction change system, for example if you are dark 5 as jedi then you will be expelled from jedi council and have to join imp side, something like this or something better.

that would make much more sense and make the game better.

as for using lighting as jedi, from what i know, you need to explore dark side of foce or light side in order to gain access to their abilities, and by exploring dark side i mean doing some bad stuff , based on what i know about star wars lore but like others said this game is not included as main star wars stuff and you do whatever you want.   

Edited July 2, 2023 by bahramnima

[xordevoreaux]

2 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

But, this game isn't canon anyways.

Yeah, like my favorite cosmetic gear in the game, the pair of Rishi pirate outfits.

[Samcuu]

10 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Actually pal, that's a misconception.

Yeah its pretty well known Lucas disregarded EU whenever he felt like it that's not some revelation. Thanks for the book on it tho lol. Anyways I don't really care if George considered it canon. He printed his name on it and made profits from it. Besides Lucas is not the be all end all. Many ppl have taken the source material and created much better stories than much of what Lucas came up with. So im unbothered by if it really was canon or not 😂😂

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

45 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Yeah its pretty well known Lucas disregarded EU whenever he felt like it that's not some revelation. Thanks for the book on it tho lol. Anyways I don't really care if George considered it canon. He printed his name on it and made profits from it. Besides Lucas is not the be all end all. Many ppl have taken the source material and created much better stories than much of what Lucas came up with. So im unbothered by if it really was canon or not

Fair enough. 👍

I know there are some Star Wars fans out there who didn't love everything he did and said. And that's fine, there's no accounting for taste.

As for me, I'm a Lucas canon diehard. I love everything he did. To me he is the end all be all.

But, not everyone feels the same ways about things. We all have our likes and dislikes. To each their own, right?

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Samcuu]

17 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Fair enough. 👍

I know there are some Star Wars fans out there who didn't love everything he did and said. And that's fine, there's no accounting for taste.

As for me, I'm a Lucas canon diehard. I love everything he did. To me he is the end all be all.

But, not everyone feels the same ways about things. We all have our likes and dislikes. To each their own, right?

 

Yup. Imo Drew Karpyshyn, who helped write a lot of kotor 1 and also wrote the Bane novel trilogy, probably has made the best star wars material outside the original trilogy. And let's be realistic. In a massive galaxy force users would have many differing opinions on how to use the force. Just the same way that all these different writers who've worked on star wars projects have their own ideas about how ppl wield the force and their beliefs about it. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Samcuu

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

19 hours ago, Samcuu said:

In a massive galaxy force users would have many differing opinions on how to use the force. Just the same way that all these different writers who've worked on star wars projects have their own ideas about how ppl wield the force and their beliefs about it. 

Yeah, totally. Sith and Jedi, they're philosophies.

It's sort of like religion. All the religions are based on a similar premise, a belief in a God and a creator, but they all have a slightly different take on it and what that God might be.

They share a core cornerstone, The Force, but  there would definitely be different Force traditions. Some might call it magic, some might call it garnishing the power of a God, some might call it the power of nature. They'd be connecting to the same source without even knowing it probably.

Sith and Jedi probably would just be the biggest and most well known takes on the Force that the most amount of people in the Galaxy would be aware of or familiar with, depending on where they lived in it and how widely they'd be aware of the greater galaxy at large.

Edited July 3, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[DreadtechSavant]

On 7/2/2023 at 4:00 AM, TziganeNZ said:

Preferred can post also. I was still posting here while preferred.

I have several accounts that are preferred as in all have been subbed many time over. Tried to post using one of these just to see today.

The one I tried could not post. 

[TziganeNZ]

11 hours ago, DreadtechSavant said:

I have several accounts that are preferred as in all have been subbed many time over. Tried to post using one of these just to see today.

The one I tried could not post. 

Maybe it was because I never actually logged out of the forums when I changed to preferred.....perhaps if you log out, you may not be able to log back in again? 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

On 7/4/2023 at 3:43 AM, TziganeNZ said:

Maybe it was because I never actually logged out of the forums when I changed to preferred.....perhaps if you log out, you may not be able to log back in again? 

I think you nailed it.

I seem to recall people suggesting to people who were about to downgrade their subscription to preferred to not log out on the forums as as long as they didn't they'd still be able to post but wouldn't be able to if they logged out.

[Shayddow]

 Darth Plagueis didn't believe a Jedi was capable of using Force lightning for 2 reasons.

1. "In order to summon and use lightning properly, you will someday have to be on the receiving end of its power, as a means of taking the energy within yourself" - Darth Plagueis by James Luceno

While this clearly was the fact in the OT era, there were Jedi who Had been on the "receiving end" during the OR era.  Our many battles in-game confirm that. For the Jedi Knight, chapter 2 gives as good of an in-game reason to have learned this for background. For someone of the Sith Species the ability could have been taught to them as a child before whatever event concerned that put them in the Jedi Order instead of growing up in the Empire.  I'm sure a background of the Counselor could yield a plausible explanation.

2. "Force Lightning requires strength of a sort only a Sith can command because we accept consequence and reject compassion. To do so requires a thirst for power that is not easily satisfied."

But, even the Jedi - some wanted power. Sidious, in his conversation with Anakin, when Anakin said the Sith want power... "And the Jedi don't?"  

So basically, being as we can head-canon most reasons for making the choices we make in-game, play your character as you see them. 

[Katahn]

You could RP as a gray Jedi, or one who disdains the entire idea of "Light side" vs "Dark side" in favor of "there is only the Force".  To this person the entire Light vs. Dark could potentially be seen as an arbitrary division that has probably caused more harm than good.

[sharpenedstick]

You end up defeating an IMMORTAL GALAXY EATING FORCE GHOST. Suffice to say, your connection to the Force should be sufficient to allow you to tap into all aspects of its use.