Guild restrictions

[frutepy]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1002705511935914005/1117848791840735272/image.png

Is this going to affect repairs and summons?

[frutepy]

To clarify, since I can't post a screenshot:

• Upon joining a guild, players will not have access to the guild bank until they have been in the guild for 30 days.

[casirabit]

No one really knows considering this is the first time most have seen it, since they have not thought about addressing it before they launch the new patch, but that is typical for them.

[Kristallia]

I would really hope not, as it would cause quite a many issues for alts and such.

But I would assume that "guild bank" means the purple storage terminal only which new members will not be able to access, so new members could still summon and repair as long as they have high enough rank.

But again, that is just my assumption how i understood that line we will see tomorrow!

[TrixxieTriss]

That change was made to stop people being able to circumvent the upgraded trading fee systems.

So assuming that is the only reason for the change, logically it should not include repairs & summons. 

Hopefully @JackieKo can find out & confirm for the community, please 🙏 

[casirabit]

4 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That change was made to stop people being able to circumvent the upgraded trading fee systems.

So assuming that is the only reason for the change, logically it should not include repairs & summons. 

Hopefully @JackieKo can find out & confirm for the community, please 🙏 

I  might understand that to keep new players on a restriction basis in the guild, we do that anyways, but regular members that make new alts, sorry no, I do not think they should be restricted as such, unless they are trying to stop people from making alts.

[TrixxieTriss]

19 minutes ago, casirabit said:

I  might understand that to keep new players on a restriction basis in the guild, we do that anyways, but regular members that make new alts, sorry no, I do not think they should be restricted as such, unless they are trying to stop people from making alts.

You’re right, that poses a different issue altogether.

I wonder if they could add a switch on the backend that looks to see if your legacy is already part of the guild so the restriction doesn’t apply 🤷🏻‍♀️

These are the sort of questions we should ask if they haven’t already thought of it. 

 

[OlBuzzard]

37 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

You’re right, that poses a different issue altogether.

I wonder if they could add a switch on the backend that looks to see if your legacy is already part of the guild so the restriction doesn’t apply 🤷🏻‍♀️

These are the sort of questions we should ask if they haven’t already thought of it. 

 

This is what I was thinking ..  surely for an alt reading the legacy or "player log-in name" would be possible.  ALTHOUGH other MMO games (such as WoW) new alt names are added to the guild individually.  By that I mean .. the GM has to allow them one at the time.  That said:  restrictions / or accessibility to different guild perks (ie. guild bank) varies from game to game.

In this case restrictions for 30 days should only be for players that are new to the guild.  Alt characters should at least have the "option" to "auto add".  The reason I say OPTIONAL ... is that in some cases a player might want to create a new alt character ... but not necessarily add to any guild.

IMO this is something that a simple clarification is all that is needed.

[Noahtep]

Not cool devs!  This is total BS! 

If I got a new player that needs some meds and maybe a mount - they can't have any for 30 days????? 

I have to tell them that they are on their own; Thanks for joining the guild but stay for 30 days and you can get some gear you no longer need???

What the heck?

Edited June 13, 2023 by Noahtep

[xordevoreaux]

1 hour ago, Noahtep said:

Not cool devs!  This is total BS! 

If I got a new player that needs some meds and maybe a mount - they can't have any for 30 days????? 

I have to tell them that they are on their own; Thanks for joining the guild but stay for 30 days and you can get some gear you no longer need???

What the heck?

I agree with your characterization of this change, and I can't see how this change will have any sort of positive impact on the interplay between guild leadership and a guild's members.

Part of the differentiation from guild to guild is not only the culture, play style, and purpose of a guild, but how a guild can help players both new and old not only with imparting knowledge to them about class, gear, and game mechanics, but also warehousing and sharing materials for crafting, stray bits of gear someone might want, a stash of decorations for player strongholds... all sorts of things that combined have absolutely no affect on the game's economy or address exploits.

 

[MrufkaZ]

This is absolutely bizzarre change. Why BW tries to tell GMs how to manage their resources? Conquest points change was understandable, since too many scammy guilds used new players. But this? Every guild I ever been in, no matter how small, has/had "free for all" tab with cheap adaptive gear and mounts or mats or med packs. Why cut this off without a word of explanation?

But on the other end - the guilds will not be able to receive any donations from "new" players as well. So for a month they won't be able to get encryptions or any other donations to develop the guildship (or guild in general). Sure, players can technically send those via mail, but with additional fee implemented, why would they?

However I'm trying to look at this chnage, it's nothing but a big hindrance for both players and guilds.

[Bobafeit]

5 hours ago, Noahtep said:

Not cool devs!  This is total BS! 

If I got a new player that needs some meds and maybe a mount - they can't have any for 30 days????? 

I have to tell them that they are on their own; Thanks for joining the guild but stay for 30 days and you can get some gear you no longer need???

What the heck?

agree , this is the 1st ive heard about any issues with the guild bank that needed to be adressed , also with no explaining why its being done 

Seem to me the devs has such a tunnelvision in reducing the inflation ,they forget changes migth be gamebreaking 

on my server prices on GTN has dropped 50-70% since last change ,so what is still needed to be fixed?

[DawnAskham]

19 minutes ago, MrufkaZ said:

This is absolutely bizzarre change. Why BW tries to tell GMs how to manage their resources? Conquest points change was understandable, since too many scammy guilds used new players. But this? Every guild I ever been in, no matter how small, has/had "free for all" tab with cheap adaptive gear and mounts or mats or med packs. Why cut this off without a word of explanation?

But on the other end - the guilds will not be able to receive any donations from "new" players as well. So for a month they won't be able to get encryptions or any other donations to develop the guildship (or guild in general). Sure, players can technically send those via mail, but with additional fee implemented, why would they?

However I'm trying to look at this chnage, it's nothing but a big hindrance for both players and guilds.

No, the conquest change was NOT understandable - just as this one is not understandable.

In the conquest case, there were a few guilds that out of the blue started abusing the system - all Bioware had to do was say such behavior was actionable, then take action (like ban the GMs of guilds pulling that invite / kick nonsense) - problem solved.

 

[Toraak]

I can understand this change honestly. It's set intentionally so people can't avoid the tax using personal guild/guildbanks to get by it. As for new players, no new player to a guild should be given access to the guildbank itself anyway. If they need something from it like medpacs, adrenals, stims have an officer pull it out and give it to them. These items at least won't be taxed on trades. As for mounts or other stuff needed from the gbank. just have to deal with the tax. (hopefully it won't be much). But there is a vendor on fleet that sells a mount for dirt cheap, so can point them to that vendor. (25k for a mount or something like that.)

 

Giving access to completely new members is just asking for your guildbank to get robbed anyway.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Toraak

[ceryxp]

Make no mistake, dear readers, this change is entirely about the economy changes going into effect with 7.3.  Some of you may remember that when the direct trade and mail taxes were first proposed people on this forum suggested that the guild bank would be used as a means to circumvent those taxes.  BW responded that they would monitor that and implement further changes if they were warranted.  It seems BW already determined that further change was warranted, and thus we have this 30-day moratorium on guild bank access for new members.

And just like the moratorium on earning guild Conquest points / experience for the first week (until the weekly reset), I assure you that there will be no exception for bringing alts into a guild.

Yet another reason why I am playing this game less and less.  Many of us, myself included, had issues with Chris Schmidt, but here is to hoping that Chris is correct, and this move to Broadsword is a good thing for the game.  Because they certainly could not do worse than BW has.

[DawnAskham]

9 minutes ago, Toraak said:

I can understand this change honestly. It's set intentionally so people can't avoid the tax using personal guild/guildbanks to get by it. As for new players, no new player to a guild should be given access to the guildbank itself anyway. If they need something from it like medpacs, adrenals, stims have an officer pull it out and give it to them. These items at least won't be taxed on trades. As for mounts or other stuff needed from the gbank. just have to deal with the tax. (hopefully it won't be much). But there is a vendor on fleet that sells a mount for dirt cheap, so can point them to that vendor. (25k for a mount or something like that.)

 

Giving access to completely new members is just asking your your guildbank to get robbed anyway.

If they dealt with exploiters on an ongoing and regular basis and updated the GTN to handle most transactions, this would be a non-issue.

Also, 30 days are beyond excessive.

Lastly, sorry, but neither you nor Bioware run every individual guild - it is quite an assumption to state guilds should not allow new members access to the guild bank, or to assume every guild master is too stupid to set appropriate limits.

Edited June 13, 2023 by DawnAskham

[TahliahCOH]

25 minutes ago, Toraak said:

I can understand this change honestly. It's set intentionally so people can't avoid the tax using personal guild/guildbanks to get by it. As for new players, no new player to a guild should be given access to the guildbank itself anyway. If they need something from it like medpacs, adrenals, stims have an officer pull it out and give it to them. These items at least won't be taxed on trades. As for mounts or other stuff needed from the gbank. just have to deal with the tax. (hopefully it won't be much). But there is a vendor on fleet that sells a mount for dirt cheap, so can point them to that vendor. (25k for a mount or something like that.)

 

Giving access to completely new members is just asking for your guildbank to get robbed anyway.

That's a decision for each guild's leaders, not for the devs.

[Jdast]

I might get a lot of sad, confusing emoji responses, but I'm going to join Toraak in dissenting against what is a clear majority view opposing this change. Hey, give me points for disagreeing with some of my favorite posters! 😛

Bioware is completely right in adding this moratorium. The arguments against this change are weak, though I probably would have shaved it down to a two week moratorium.

1) Guild repair funds. 

Sorry, this argument is unpersuasive. Repair costs have gone up, but all the new player has to do is run a heroic or two on starter planets and they will be fine. Worst case, give them 100,000 credits knowing you will lose a meager 8 percent.

2) Alts

If your Alt desperately needs something, have your Main withdraw it and put it in your legacy bank.

3) Mounts

If a new player is so desperate for a mount, suck it up, buy a cheap one and eat the 8% tax. It's a whopping couple thousand credits.

4) Adrenals / Stims

These aren't taxed on trade.

5) Summons

Im assuming that this will not be impacted, but we will know in a couple hours.

Remember, you have to balance the above extremely insignificant costs against what was going to be an obvious way to circumvent the tax on Hypercrates / Premier items in which case we are talking billions of credits. As for guild autonomy, sure, I get it, but it is only month of denying a new guildmate a potential gift. I think that is an extremely small price to pay.

Sorry, if I'm coming across as snarky. It's 6:24 a.m. where I live and I'm on my first cup of coffee (with Bailey's of course!).

Dasty

Edited June 13, 2023 by Jdast

[Crystal_Mind]

I understand the rationale given the amount of people during PTS harping on about how the guild bank would be used for Tax Evasion.

HOWEVER -- 30 days is an eternity for an MMO. It's obscenely long. If they had to implement something like this, 1 week would have been reasonable (inasmuch as any of this change can be called reasonable 🙄 ), but 30 days? That is a mistake.

[Toraak]

Don't get me wrong, should BW make it a bit shorter then 30 days? Absolutely, but I do believe that BW needed to have some form of delay to stop people from abusing the guild bank for trading purposes. @JdastI agree with your reduction to 2 weeks as well. That should be plenty of a delay to the players attempting to abuse the gbank.

 

Also something to mention while the patch notes doesn't actually say it affects the repairs/summoning ability. While I didn't do the PTS this time personally (1st time in a long time for that) I would think BW would have put that in the patch notes if it would affect either of them. So until I get in game and test it I'm under the belief neither repairs and summoning are going to be affected, and only the items actually in the guild bank are.

[jedimasterjac]

54 minutes ago, Toraak said:

I can understand this change honestly. It's set intentionally so people can't avoid the tax using personal guild/guildbanks to get by it. As for new players, no new player to a guild should be given access to the guildbank itself anyway. If they need something from it like medpacs, adrenals, stims have an officer pull it out and give it to them. These items at least won't be taxed on trades. As for mounts or other stuff needed from the gbank. just have to deal with the tax. (hopefully it won't be much). But there is a vendor on fleet that sells a mount for dirt cheap, so can point them to that vendor. (25k for a mount or something like that.)

 

Giving access to completely new members is just asking for your guildbank to get robbed anyway.

Yes exactly. Plenty of people in the thread on the issue pointed out that guilds could very easily be used to circumvent the trade tax; this change makes that much more demanding unless players want to just have permanent alts set in some sort of trade guild. 
 

30 days is long but the policy itself is not that bad. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by jedimasterjac

[eabevella]

As long as me and my alts have summon privilege the moment they join a guild, I don't care.

[Pirana]

Two weeks is fine, maybe only a week, but one month is a bit excessive. This is the EAWare some of us have come to know for years, really bizarre and questionable decisions out of the blue that make almost no sense whatsoever. This is not surprising. Welcome to SWTOR if you're a new player, this is the norm. 

[Darev]

I'm not totally annoyed with this change either.

I remember people joining guilds to rip off guild banks when the permissions weren't set correctly.   People complained out it, loudly, in game and here in the forums.  It was always, basically, met with "it's the GM's fault, suck it up" type of responses.  A few even asked the devs to make changes to the default settings if I remember correctly.

on the rare occasion I allow someone into my private guilds, they're perpetually stuck on "recruit" status and have zero access to any tab other than my "free for all" tab that I let them know they can use, but to consider anything they put in as a "donation" that anyone in the guild can take out.  Hence the tab name.

As @Jdast and others have mentioned, in the case of stims/meds/etc for guild group content...other guild members / officers can easily trade the items.    Used to do that all the time when I was actually in a "real" guild that ran operations.

[Bobafeit]

to you ppl that is defending this change , What the heck? so you think its cool they adress a non existing problem because it migth become one in the future?, and in the same go they punish all their paying customers?? and yes the paying customers since FTP cant access the guildbank anyway 

if we as a guild want to give some perks to new members thats up to us , we are paying customers afterall and the ppl who have 100 bill + isnt going to get hurt by any of these changes since the GTN prices allrdy dropped the devs is just giving them more controle over the market since most and new players dont have that kind of credits they have just made the gap much larger to solve a problem they themself created with the cartel store

if it was the same timer as conquest i would not have been that upset , but this is beyond ridicolus , you gotta be really desperate  if you joined a guild and waited several days to get a trade complete to save on tax and it would also stopped the ppl who join guilds to steal what they can from FFA tab so to make it 30 days is an overkill of dimentions