An update on the development of SWTOR

[LJ_Gibbs]

I am not insulting them.  I hope they do well... but their track record is HORRID.  What have they done to earn our trust that things will get better?

To think they can "turn things around" is borderline absurd.

I raid one night a week with friends I have had since launch.  If it wasn't for them... I would have left a long time ago.  This "Story Mode" R4 mess has left a bad taste in my mouth.  A SM Op should be regularly running with fleet pugs by now... and it's just not.  My team has beaten HM Revan.... we have done everything but HM Apex and HM Gods.  We should NOT be having issues with SM Lady Dom... but here we are. 

I am leaving the game in September because having to be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT for a SM OP is just not fun.  STORY MODE!!!!!  The fact it's bugged as hell (people getting knocked UNDER the floor and people showing up dead to each other... both of which NEED FIXED NOW) is a joke.

[JakRoanin]

I didn't say you were insulting anyone, but players are doing that. I don't raid, its physically impossible for me. I did almost leave when the gearing changed to the travesty it is, but since it didn't cause too many physical problems I decided to stay. Do I want more improvements? Yes! I'm willing to see what comes. If I don't like it, then I stop easy.

[OlBuzzard]

54 minutes ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

They hired people????????  So... you are saying they "hired" Broadsword so everyone over there could work on SWTOR?

Yeah ... someone thought this through for a while... EA/BW big wigs.... they saw the game is stagnant... and as long as they keep the status quo... the game will make money.  So why not pawn it off who can do the bare minimum (like the SWTOR team has been doing for YEARS)?

We are NEVER going to get more than what we have got the last 2-3 years going forward... anyone who thinks so ... doesn't quite understand how old games work.

Perhaps ... perhaps not.  None of us can say conclusively exactly how this will pan out.  But (as I have stated repeatedly now) ... it's squarely up to them! To me (personally) if nothing changes and things like the GS series remains as it has been for some time now ... IMO that is a clearcut indication that things will remain status quo.  (just to use ONE example).

[OlBuzzard]

1 hour ago, robwettengel said:

 

I see our dear LadyAdmiral tried every conceivable troubleshooting avenue under the sun from a player perspective.   My hat's off to her because I don't/wouldn't have the patience for that.

 

There is a varied player base that play for different reasons. I suspect that it is likely impossible to adequately satisfy all the factions with sufficient attention. I play for story and PVP and I'd characterize myself as a semi-casual PVPer. I only ever ran the vanilla ops, only ran KP all the way through at least 10x, the other ones, I only earned achievements for the first two bosses. This was in 2013, and I don't remember if I was running them because I genuinely wanted to or because of some event. 

 

Also, from the team side, we don't know anything about the corporate culture they were operating in at BW. We know revenue was being diverted to other BW projects and that the SWTOR team members were shifted to work on other projects as BW felt necessary. From Chris' tweets, it could be fair to say that SWTOR was something BW didn't entirely understand. We also don't know just how involved Lucasfilm is as well. We also don't know how many levels of management there were above Keith.

We don't know how much BW supervised the development of SWTOR. Did Keith's roadmap posts stop because the team decided to stop them internally, or did BW decide they were to cease? Devoid of genuine insights and knowledge of the internal workings of BW as a whole, we can only speculate. Did the EP of SWTOR ever have one-on-one meetings with top studio executives post-launch to discuss the game's state, future plans, and budgets? Or are such meetings done at a lower level? 

Then there are James Ohlen's comments from 2 years ago when he left that BW had become "too corporate." That suggests to me that there were too many meetings taking place and too many decisions needed to be discussed in meetings. Meetings--and needing to get buy-in from several people--tends to slow down coming to any decision.

 

 

 

 

Valid point(s) ...  particularly inside of the BW corporate culture.  This is where speculation can really get us all into trouble.   (IMO it's sort of like the old "arm-chair-quarterback" adage.  Same principle. )

To that end ..  I'll bring this back full circle now.  Wait and see?  That's where I'm at right now.  Though I can also understand why so many people may not be so forgiving.  The MMO industry is a tough one!  I get that!  We've all been on this rollercoaster ride for a while now.  I'm personally ready to get off the rollercoaster and climb into something else ...  (Think Bass Cat Eyra / Bass Cat Puma STS ... OR Pheonix 921 Elite.  And pretty much in that order!)  It should also be noted that the previous statement was not intended to act as advertisement for any of those products but simply my personal preferences that I have spent several months researching).

If they will build it ..  people will come (and many of the rest of us will stay).  If this falls flat (as in RECENT history) then ..  I'm sorry to say ...but things will NOT go well for SWTOR.

 

[Samcuu]

On 6/28/2023 at 3:45 PM, robwettengel said:

I still think the best solution is to limit it to guild challenges only. I have no idea how often that feature is used, but limiting PVP premades to that feature could be healthy for guilds.

No it wouldn't be because u don't get rewards for it. Plus a lot of guilds pvp for conquest again that's not rewarded in guild challenges. If you started attaching rewards to guild challenges then it would be abused no doubt. Plus you are encouraging ppl to queue outside of the reg wz matches which would probably lengthen the queue pops for everyone else. Priority should be fast queue pops first and foremost imo. Guild challenges are useless, you need to play against better players to improve if you are picking your opponents and making it as fair as possible, newer pvp'ers are never going to learn how to perform at a higher level. I'm in favor of reducing premades back to groups of 4 though, anything more than that is overkill. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Samcuu

[Traceguy]

4 hours ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

We have the fact they are being moved to a developer that is known for maintaining games (very little to no significant content).

That fact means nothing when

1. The SWTOR team is transferring from Bioware to continue development on the game.

2. Lead Director said the game is not going into maintenance mode

3. They just made the game 64-bit

4. They're moving to AWS very soon

5. They're working on Direct x12.

 

-

3-5 would be the biggest waste of time and money imagineable for a game that's both dying and going to maintenance

#1 would be a huge waste of resources when Broadsword could host SWTOR without the devs

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Traceguy

[robwettengel]

2 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

Valid point(s) ...  particularly inside of the BW corporate culture.  This is where speculation can really get us all into trouble.   (IMO it's sort of like the old "arm-chair-quarterback" adage.  Same principle. )

To that end ..  I'll bring this back full circle now.  Wait and see?  That's where I'm at right now.  Though I can also understand why so many people may not be so forgiving.  The MMO industry is a tough one!  I get that!  We've all been on this rollercoaster ride for a while now.  I'm personally ready to get off the rollercoaster and climb into something else ...  (Think Bass Cat Eyra / Bass Cat Puma STS ... OR Pheonix 921 Elite.  And pretty much in that order!)  It should also be noted that the previous statement was not intended to act as advertisement for any of those products but simply my personal preferences that I have spent several months researching).

If they will build it ..  people will come (and many of the rest of us will stay).  If this falls flat (as in RECENT history) then ..  I'm sorry to say ...but things will NOT go well for SWTOR.

 

The key to prevent "trouble" is to keep it to informed speculation versus baseless speculation. We can only go as far as the evidence takes us, and then possibly extend it a tad via logical inferences. Since we know nothing regarding who did what and when--and are very unlikely to know ever--there is no point in extending what I wrote further. Mainly wrote that to try and tamp down the gloom-and-doom with a reasonable overview of what we don't know and will likely never know.

I know what you had listed was related to fishing with the word "bass" in the title. I had initially assumed that you were referencing fishing games--perhaps even a fishing MMO (yes, this idea struck me as stupid and I quickly dismissed it)--but a quick web search told me that those are fishing boats, since I found it odd you used the word "products" instead of "games."

For myself, I'm nearly done with a prospective history journal article that hopefully I'll be getting off before the Fourth of July or on the 5th. Then it will be time to work on writing three Statements of Purposes for the history PhD programs I'll be applying to for admission in Dec. and Jan, taking the GRE and improving my German--and still squeezing in some time for gaming and hanging with pals.

 

I believe it is safe to operate under the assumption that we will have some idea of how things are going to shape up by June of next year. About a year's time strikes me as more than fair to gauge if our beloved game's best days are still ahead of us after all.  Let's all keep everything that can cross crossed that this hope becomes reality. Wait and see--and hope--is mostly all we can do in addition to continuing to play TOR.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by robwettengel

[LJ_Gibbs]

11 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

That fact means nothing when

1. The SWTOR team is transferring from Bioware to continue development on the game.

2. Lead Director said the game is not going into maintenance mode

3. They just made the game 64-bit

4. They're moving to AWS very soon

5. They're working on Direct x12.

 

-

3-5 would be the biggest waste of time and money imagineable for a game that's both dying and going to maintenance

#1 would be a huge waste of resources when Broadsword could host SWTOR without the devs

 

1.  So.... the people in charge of the game the last 3 years ... are still in charge of the game?  Yeah... that will work out well.  They are losing people who HAVE worked on the game to go over to BS where NO ONE has ever worked on the game.

2.  OF COURSE he's gonna say that!  LOL HAHAHAHHAHAHAA

3.  This decision could have been made before EA decided to pawn them off.

4.  See #3

5.  See #4

[JakRoanin]

None of that is fact.

[LJ_Gibbs]

2 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

None of that is fact.

Precedence IS FACT.

[OlBuzzard]

18 minutes ago, robwettengel said:

The key to prevent "trouble" is to keep it to informed speculation versus baseless speculation. We can only go as far as the evidence takes us, and then possibly extend it a tad via logical inferences. Since we know nothing regarding who did what and when--and are very unlikely do know ever--there is no point in extending what I wrote further. Mainly wrote that to try and tamp down the gloom-and-doom with a reasonable overview of what we don't know and will likely never know.

I know what you had listed was related to fishing with the word "bass" in the title. I had initially assumed that you were referencing fishing games--perhaps even a fishing MMO (yes, this idea struck me as stupid and I quickly dismissed it)--but a quick web search told me that those are fishing boats, since I found it odd you used the word "products" instead of "games."

For myself, I'm nearly done with a prospective history journal article that hopefully I'll be getting off before the Fourth of July or on the 5th. Then it will be time to work on writing three Statements of Purposes for the history PhD programs I'll be applying to for admission in Dec. and Jan, taking the GRE and improving my German--and still squeezing in some time for gaming and hanging with pals.

 

I believe it is safe to operate under the assumption that we will have some idea of how things are going to shape up by June of next year. About a year's time strikes me as more than fair to gauge if our beloved game's best days are still ahead of us after all.  Let's all keep everything that can cross crossed that this hope becomes reality. Wait and see--and hope--is mostly all we can do in addition to continuing to play TOR.

 

Excellent observation on all points!  And yes..  I intentionally utilized the "bass boat" analysis for a reason (more than one actually).  Well done that you picked up on that.  Those boats represent a lot more than just "fishing in a game".  IRL ... they are fantastic and a LOT of enjoyment in the sport.  (As opposed to the usual up and down of a roller coaster ride.)  Anyways ... enough of that!

I like your post(s) ...  well done!

[/two thumbs up]

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by OlBuzzard
minor errors

[Traceguy]

7 minutes ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

1.  So.... the people in charge of the game the last 3 years ... are still in charge of the game?  Yeah... that will work out well.  They are losing people who HAVE worked on the game to go over to BS where NO ONE has ever worked on the game.

2.  OF COURSE he's gonna say that!  LOL HAHAHAHHAHAHAA

3.  This decision could have been made before EA decided to pawn them off.

4.  See #3

5.  See #4

1. Means nothing

2. hyperbole

3. Irrelevant. Would still be a waste of time and money

4. See #3

5. See #4

Edited June 30, 2023 by Traceguy

[LJ_Gibbs]

Just now, Traceguy said:

1. Means nothing

2. hyperbole

3. Irrelevant. Still a waste of time and money

4. See #3

5. See #4

1.  Sure it does dude ... until they PROVE ME WRONG... it's gonna be the same thing we have got the last 3-4 years.

2.  He's not gonna say "We are going into Maintenance Mode"...... they'd lose so many subs lol

3.  I am not saying it isn't a waste.... but they're not going to abandon what they are doing if they wanna keep the game maintained for 4-5 or more years.

[OlBuzzard]

4 minutes ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

Precedence IS FACT.

It is a fact that there has been recent historical evidence of difficulties.  NO !  I don't believe that all of the difficulties are going to simply go POOF!  And be gone!

I do believe that a mans word is his bond.  Ball in their court (development team)...  we will see what we will see.  Either it works this time ... or game over!

[LJ_Gibbs]

2 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

It is a fact that there has been recent historical evidence of difficulties.  NO !  I don't believe that all of the difficulties are going to simply go POOF!  And be gone!

I do believe that a mans word is his bond.  Ball in their court (development team)...  we will see what we will see.  Either it works this time ... or game over!

Year long 10 year anniversary anyone?

[Samcuu]

6 minutes ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

Year long 10 year anniversary anyone?

The funny thing is that since ur such a pessimist and don't take them at face value then why are u banging on about stuff like this? Shouldn't you have not believed it in the first place and not been disappointed when it didn't live up to the hype? The game has like 20k dedicated players if that. It's not a new hot mmo anymore, and it really only was for a short period of time. We can get into why that is the case but it doesn't matter. Your opinion also doesn't matter the devs are gonna do what they are gonna do and they have limited capabilities. So u either play or u don't. Log in for ur raid group have fun then go play another game. It's not a hard concept to understand lol 😂😂

[JakRoanin]

29 minutes ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

Precedence IS FACT.

It does not predict the future. Especially when the entire management and resource structure shifts.

[LJ_Gibbs]

Just now, JakRoanin said:

It does not predict the future. Especially when the entire management and resource structure shifts.

Management is exactly the same lol

[Samcuu]

2 minutes ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

Management is exactly the same lol

Yup and the ppl ur talking to are content with the way the game is. What are u trying to accomplish exactly? Do u think the devs are going to read ur posts and realize that they aren't providing enough content and then plan some massive expansion  with new classes or something? Lol

The ppl in here defending swtor are content with the game. In a perfect world do we want more content like wow or ff? Of course, is it realistic? Not really. that's just the state of the game atm. The reality is that if they stop producing content all together or even slower than they have been, then they will lose the remaining player base. The game will shut the doors one day regardless, just play it until u don't have fun anymore and then leave..again not really hard to comprehend imo. 

[LJ_Gibbs]

2 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Yup and the ppl ur talking to are content with the way the game is. What are u trying to accomplish exactly? Do u think the devs are going to read ur posts and realize that they aren't providing enough content and then plan some massive expansion  with new classes or something? Lol

The ppl in here defending swtor are content with the game. In a perfect world do we want more content like wow or ff? Of course, is it realistic? Not really. that's just the state of the game atm. The reality is that if they stop producing content all together or even slower than they have been, then they will lose the remaining player base. The game will shut the doors one day regardless, just play it until u don't have fun anymore and then leave..again not really hard to comprehend imo. 

People are happy with the way it is?  $15 a month for 20 min of content every 6 months?!?!?!?

I get there are people that have not been around as long as I have.... but come on... you cannot say you are getting a value for the money you pay.

[JakRoanin]

No it's not, @KeithKanneg has new bosses now.

[JenaSalton]

Just now, LJ_Gibbs said:

People are happy with the way it is?  $15 a month for 20 min of content every 6 months?!?!?!?

I get there are people that have not been around as long as I have.... but come on... you cannot say you are getting a value for the money you pay.

I play SWTOR for several hours a month, $15 for that much entertainment is well worth it in my opinion. Honestly, the only other subscriptions that I have at the moment that I use more and have better value are my Apple Music and Audible subscriptions.

And like others have said, I definitely would be delighted with more, but even if all I continue to get is "20 mim content every 6 months" and being able to occassionally participate in forum pvp I'll keep paying and by happy with what I'm getting. Other people may disagree and would rather move on to other games where they feel like they get better value, or move on to something else entirely, and that's good for them.

[Samcuu]

39 minutes ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

People are happy with the way it is?  $15 a month for 20 min of content every 6 months?!?!?!?

I get there are people that have not been around as long as I have.... but come on... you cannot say you are getting a value for the money you pay.

Mmos are a different animal. Ppl play for many different reasons. You've said earlier that u only play for ur friends. If ur part of a guild of good community and have a good strong guild that's the building blocks of an mmo. They will do old content for years with their friends because they have fun doing it. I've been playing pvp for years with very little to no updates. I have fun doing it, I have a lot invested in this particular game and not a lot of time to invest starting all over in another mmo. Plus it's star wars. Clearly many of the ppl who continue to play this game and sub are probably in a similar situation. There's hours and hours of the original vanilla stories which are amazing, that ppl play over and over again ect. So many reasons for ppl to continue to play the game. I'm honestly doing new content all the time because as a pvper I never stepped foot in a raid for the majority of time I've played this game.

Let's be honest if a star wars IP was run properly it should dominate any other mmo out there. It's been mismanaged, no secret there. That doesn't take away from the fact that ppl still love the game for what it is. 

[krackcommando]

19 hours ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

"We have too many currencies"

.. proceeds to introduce 7 more new ones.

ran out of emotes, but +1 😄

wp, sir.

[krackcommando]

14 hours ago, ronin_chi_lao said:

All the key players working on swtor are still with us including writers. Am I wrong?

nothing about the writing has been worth a fart since the enternal empire stuff, and those 2 xpacks were basically the death knell for this game as an MMO. one would hope that the move away from BW would actually mean more attention to end game activities and less on writing cut scenes that you play once, roll through solo, and then look around for something to do for the next 11-35 months.