An update on the development of SWTOR

[ReKabNad]

Right now, I'm imagining Darth EA deploying the Inquisitors to root out the source of the leak to IGN! 😈

[DawnAskham]

Want to get EA's attention and maybe get some more details - stop buying CC, cancel your sub, and quit logging in.

Even if everyone did that, I wouldn't expect anything in detail ever.

The best we can expect is some future and vague 'We are excited to announce (insert PR speak with a few vague promises thrown in). Thank you to all our wonderful and loyal supporters.' type of post.

Also, I imagine the staff in Austin has way more on their minds than trying to run down pointless questions like whether people will need to use a new website for the forums at some future date.

Like whether or not they will have a job at the end of all of this.

Lastly, if you don't follow EA, about three months ago the CEO put out a statement about strategic evaluations of all their businesses, which was mostly PR nonsense, but of which the tl:dr was: cost-cutting, lay-offs of 6% of the workforce.

https://www.ea.com/news/update-to-our-business-march-2023

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by DawnAskham

[ReKabNad]

2 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Oh look, it's a flying pig!

Oh man, I was hoping it was SPIDER-PIG! 

[Homer Simpson Voice]Spider-Pig, Spider-Pig
Does whatever... a Spider-Pig does![/Homer Simpson Voice]

😁

[Samcuu]

3 hours ago, sithBracer said:

With half the development staff? More requires more investment. More investment, by definition, requires more risk. Why would any CEO in their right mind do that when they can just get a sure thing? It might not be as much money as they can "possibly" make, but it is not a gamble.

It's a business that made $1b in 8 years. That's like $125m a year on average. It's a star wars IP which is a license to print money. Mmos last a long time these days especially when they make good money. Your guess is as good as mine as to what kind of revenue swtor brought in last year,.but as of 2019 $1b was the number. Why wouldn't you try to invest in that is the question?

[Samcuu]

3 hours ago, Floplag said:

3 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Ok, you know what, you are right. go ahead and sub for 20 years, buy more and more cartel coins. Show everyone how passionate you are and support this company which will 100% risk all its money on a 12 year old declining MMO on a declining IP. Oh look, it's a flying pig!

OK youre just trolling now... age of a game has nothing to do with if if its still fun.  WoW is even older still leads the MMO field.. in fact EVERY leading MMO is getting quite long in the tooth right now. 
Bottom line for me is simple, if they want my continued support, which i want to give, i want to know the plan... otherwise its time to move on for good
The rest is moot. 

Lol this is so dramatic. The devs have stated they've done work up to a 7.4 patch. So you are gonna get new story and content on Tuesday. The game is going to switch management teams so what logic would there be to release an old defunct road map? If you enjoy the game pay ur sub for a month and finish 7.3. When u stop playing unsub. If Broadsword does a good job taking the game forward, sub again lol. It's not really rocket science tbh 🥴🥴

Edited June 9, 2023 by Samcuu

[RandomJane]

I don't typically chime in on forums much, typically I'm a silent lurker but I've been keeping tabs on the thread for the past few days and thought I'd say a few things just to add some perspective since I have a bit of a background in tech.

You don't see splits and merges very often when it comes to corporations, typically it's only once it hits main news then you hear something regarding it (Or it's two big companies e.g Microsoft + Activision/Blizzard). The main purpose of this is control of information and to ensure the proceedings go smoothly behind the scenes at the board table, upsetting any shareholders as minimally as possible since markets can quickly go volatile. Not to mention rebranding is both annoying and expensive.

I'm not too sure if the same kinds of procedures that're in Australia (my country) also happen in the US so I'm generally rolling by my experiences both from working with retail and having a family member who also worked in a industry that went through a split and merge with another company. (And yes the original company this group was split from still exists, its just the whole procedure was messy as f)

Basic process is internal memos go out, meetings are had to discuss what's going on. From there the process is that the people directly affected go through a re-interview process to see if they're still good enough to take on. This is to try and ensure the procedures are as fair as possible and minimal favoritism occurs in management/upper management/higher levels. Anyone who doesn't fit the mold either moved or removed.

My hunch is that someone who didn't like the process or was just generally really angry about this change was the one who outed to IGN to cause a panic/cause share market disaster. But by doing so this breaks a number of NDA's and puts things on pause while internal investigations go on. If they find whoever did it, they're going to be terminated from employment and probably frozen out of the industry since it's a fairly serious matter. If not legal repercussions first.

Why Austin hasn't said anything is because the legal, PR and probably marketing teams of both EA AND Bioware step in to try and get things under control first, actively silencing them for the time being. They will likely issue a statement but they have to figure out the best way to frame it to reduce as much panic and rage as possible among the userbase so we don't get silly retaliatory measures like threats etc again. Its not that they don't want to talk, they CAN'T.

I believe there's also several matters going on behind the scenes regarding EA's working relationship to Bioware in general, especially after Inquisition, Andromeda and Anthem were considered commercial failures by the former. If I recall some news in the rumor mill, it pretty much hinges on Dreadwolf and possibly the next Mass Effect depending on how far in the production cycle it is.

If this split does happen and SWTOR is merged into Broadsword (provided they haven't run for the hills due to bad press now), several things will happen. Most of them minor such as logos being removed and changed and probably a new set of people being given moderator access behind the scenes. The account info, cc's etc doesn't get touched. Login point shouldn't be changed, launcher doesn't get changed. Servers for the game still stay where they are for now. You'd probably have a new contact number/email for any account issues but that's all.

As for the AWS stuff...if that goes ahead I think just a few files are changed on the user's end to accommodate the new IP address to hook into. Shouldn't be too complicated I think.

If Dreadwolf and/or other projects fail and Bioware happens to fold then Swtor is spared that and you can still play the game as normal.

I can't/won't make a guarantee for new content though. But considering you have a section of core devs being moved AND adding what Broadsword already has, I can't see much issue with the game still receiving new content post 7.4...juuust probably at the same level as it is now and not full size mega expansions either.

Especially since EA's been fairly ruthless in the past when it's come to cutting things/studios that fail. Dead Space (original), American McGee's Alice, Spore etc. Bioware's corporate has also been ruthless in cutting off BW Montreal after the Andromeda failure. Doesn't make much sense to offer devs to move over to a new place only to fire them. Not to mention SWTOR still makes a boat load of money, mainly through the cartel market but it's nothing to scoff at.

Besides if you're going to make a guarantee for anything especially EA with a 7 billion revenue this past fiscal year, corporate greed wins. They're not going to let go of something that makes them a lot of money. 

I'd honestly only be scared if they did a content style similar to Dead Space 3 again, then I know we'd be screwed.

*no I don't work for Bioware and I'm not under NDA, just sharing things based on my experiences and seeing news articles over the years about the company, heh.

[sithBracer]

42 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

It's a business that made $1b in 8 years. That's like $125m a year on average. It's a star wars IP which is a license to print money. Mmos last a long time these days especially when they make good money. Your guess is as good as mine as to what kind of revenue swtor brought in last year,.but as of 2019 $1b was the number. Why wouldn't you try to invest in that is the question?

Do you honestly believe they are making the same kind of money now as they were during 2.X, 3.X and 4.X? It's pretty obvious that most of the money came from that time and those times are not coming back without a huge investment from within or a major super blockbuster from disney (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL). As far as I know, it is currently profitable, but it is definitely declining. The writing is on the wall. The development team is shrinking by more than half, the game is going to a hole in the wall shop that keeps its games in maintenance mode and only adds monetization schemes to them. The copium I see is honestly unreal.

Edited June 9, 2023 by sithBracer

[Samcuu]

14 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

Do you honestly believe they are making the same kind of money now as they were during 2.X, 3.X and 4.X? It's pretty obvious that most of the money came from that time and those times are not coming back without a huge investment from within or a major super blockbuster from disney (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL). As far as I know, it is currently profitable, but it is definitely declining. The writing is on the wall. The development team is shrinking by more than half, the game is going to a hole in the wall shop that keeps its games in maintenance mode and only adds monetization schemes to them. The copium I see is honestly unreal.

You can do the math on it for yourself. If you say that swtor made half of its money within the first 3 years the next 5 years are still $500m. The player base hasn't shrunk since 6.0 either btw its actually grown. So your best guess is as good as mine tbh because nor you or I have the actual numbers. I'm only going off an earnings call from the EA ceo from a few years ago talking about the revenue being sizeable plus a dev who also said swtor makes a lot of money for the company so much so they were using the swtor profits to invest in other projects ie swtor is what is/was keeping the lights on at Bioware. And it's not so much copium as much as it is just being logical about the situation which clearly a lot of ppl have their feelings all hurt about it and can't think straight lol. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Samcuu

[jedimasterjac]

19 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

Do you honestly believe they are making the same kind of money now as they were during 2.X, 3.X and 4.X? It's pretty obvious that most of the money came from that time and those times are not coming back without a huge investment from within or a major super blockbuster from disney (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL). As far as I know, it is currently profitable, but it is definitely declining. The writing is on the wall. The development team is shrinking by more than half, the game is going to a hole in the wall shop that keeps its games in maintenance mode and only adds monetization schemes to them. The copium I see is honestly unreal.

Lack of investment doesn’t equal lack of revenue. If Schmidt’s to be believed (I don’t know why he’d be lying) the game has consistently been quite lucrative for EA and BioWare. 
 

I have very little hope of any change leading to more investment, but it doesn’t change the fact that the one doesn’t lead into the other.

 

Especially when you’re talking about a live service game that’s hit relative stability and is a consistent revenue stream. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by jedimasterjac

[meddani]

never seen so much hopium in one thread, poor guys are in for a rude awakening.

[GeneralGyro]

35 minutes ago, meddani said:

never seen so much hopium in one thread, poor guys are in for a rude awakening.

the first step to acceptance is denial

[TrixxieTriss]

Steam numbers had already started to drop off slightly last week. But since the rumours started & then IGN’s article & now Keith’s announcement, swtor player numbers on Steam are dropping much faster than would have been expected without this news. At this rate they’ll be half what they were last month by the middle or end of next week. I can only wonder what BioWares internal login is showing them.

I hope they can give some reassuring news on Monday or players may continue to abandon the game & may jeopardise the deal going forward with Broadsword. Which might lead to EA just shutting down the game entirely if Broadsword pull out.

[Kristallia]

9 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Steam numbers had already started to drop off slightly last week. But since the rumours started & then IGN’s article & now Keith’s announcement, swtor player numbers on Steam are dropping much faster than would have been expected without this news. At this rate they’ll be half what they were last month by the middle or end of next week. I can only wonder what BioWares internal login is showing them.

I hope they can give some reassuring news on Monday or players may continue to abandon the game & may jeopardise the deal going forward with Broadsword. Which might lead to EA just shutting down the game entirely if Broadsword pull out.

I figured that release of Diablo 4 also affected player numbers of swtor and other games, atleast many of my friends seem to be playing it but I dont really know.

Somehow i would think that many of the players would not have idea about this studio change, only ones that are invested enough to go to forums and such.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 minute ago, Kristallia said:

I figured that release of Diablo 4 also affected player numbers of swtor and other games, atleast many of my friends seem to be playing it but I dont really know.

Somehow i would think that many of the players would not have idea about this studio change, only ones that are invested enough to go to forums and such.

It’s not just on the swtor Forums. It’s been discussed by the usual swtor influencers on their platforms. Plus it’s across twitter, reddit, FB & Discord. And let’s not forget the gaming media is discussing it too since IGN leaked it. The cat is well & truely out of the bag of what’s happening. 

And while Diablo probably would have had a negative affect on some numbers by itself, I doubt it would have had as big of affect as I’m seeing atm because it’s a totally different type of game. If the trend continues, we will have less than half the players we had only 2 weeks ago. 

[LeMage]

I've been with many game good byes. Some held some very good times indeed. For the moment though I'm going to study this acorn to see if it really is part of the sky that is falling or is it just a nut. I'll keep a sub up because for the moment I haven't enough info and want to remain not pessimistic. If SWTOR ends up going well "thanks for all the fish".

[Sappharan]

19 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Steam numbers had already started to drop off slightly last week. But since the rumours started & then IGN’s article & now Keith’s announcement, swtor player numbers on Steam are dropping much faster than would have been expected without this news. At this rate they’ll be half what they were last month by the middle or end of next week. I can only wonder what BioWares internal login is showing them.

I hope they can give some reassuring news on Monday or players may continue to abandon the game & may jeopardise the deal going forward with Broadsword. Which might lead to EA just shutting down the game entirely if Broadsword pull out.

Hopefully the game will thrive but, if it cannot or will not, it needs to go mercifully to its end.  The feeling of neglect and the godawful PvP decisions made in since or about 7 are worse than the game's demise...to me. 

[Jdast]

I think the downturn in SWTOR's Steam numbers is a combo of three factors...

1) Concerns about the murky future;

2) Diablo 4; and 

3) Elder Scrolls Online (ESO) on June 5th released full-fledged expansion, Necrom, which includes a new class. 

I have no doubt I will fire up SWTOR on June 13th when 7.3 is released, but right now I'm happy in the other two major releases from the past few days.

I also have no doubt that I will play at least through 7.4. By then, we will probably have a better sense of the future SWTOR and if it is worth playing past 7.4.

 

Dasty

Edited June 10, 2023 by Jdast
Clarity

[TziganeNZ]

11 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

It doesn't feel like the end to me and the way I see it, it ain't over til the fat lady (or Baras) sings.

Now there's a mental image I just didn't need.... 😆

I'm taking a 'wait and see' approach.  It's too early to do anything more than speculate (no matter what the 'armchair experts' pronounce with great authority).  I do think that Keith Kanneg had no choice but to release a statement once the cat had been let out of the bag with the IGN article, and BW/EA got caught on the back foot.

Until further information from official sources is forthcoming, there's really nothing more that can happen for the players other than wait.  I will, however, be changing my sub from 3-monthly to monthly to be on the safe side (nothing wrong with preparing for the worst - I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than horribly shocked). 

If worst comes to worst, I guess I'll be going back to EQ2....at least until another Star Wars game is released (hopefully).

My first MMO was Matrix Online - I was there from beta to the end when the servers shut down, and it was heartbreaking.  If only Warner Bros had not sold it to Sony, who promptly stuffed it up so badly people left in droves, it might still be going.  

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

1 hour ago, TziganeNZ said:

Now there's a mental image I just didn't need.... 😆

<Sith Warrior ^5>

1 hour ago, TziganeNZ said:

I do think that Keith Kanneg had no choice but to release a statement once the cat had been let out of the bag with the IGN article, and BW/EA got caught on the back foot.

That's a fair point. It was already out there and they wanted to run some damage control.

1 hour ago, TziganeNZ said:

I will, however, be changing my sub from 3-monthly to monthly to be on the safe side (nothing wrong with preparing for the worst - I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than horribly shocked). 

Expect the worst and hope for the best. Survival 101. Can't get caught off guard that way.  - Smart.

Pleasant surprises are one of life's little pleasures.😋

1 hour ago, TziganeNZ said:

If worst comes to worst, I guess I'll be going back to EQ2....at least until another Star Wars game is released (hopefully).

If the worst happened I'd probably go back to one of the games I've played in the past,  so I've got old characters character I can slip right back into. Possibilities would be Star Trek Online (Klingon Warrior), Lord of the Rings Online (a maniac Dwarven Champion who screams 'Crom!!!' [Conan's God] every 5 minutes) or Dungeons and Dragons Online (Half-Orc Fighter).

I always wondered about EverQuest, I've never tried it, but if you think it's fun I might give it a look-see. =]

I just got a new Alienware gaming Computer with some nice stats might be worth it to try something new with the new set up. Made a huge difference in play in SWTOR.

Hopefully that won't be necessary (aside from just wanting to), I'd really hate not having this game anymore. This is the longest I've ever been in any MMO (10 years). Can't imagine life without it. I imagine it'd be like an itch you can't ever scratch. 😖

 

[TziganeNZ]

33 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

I always wondered about EverQuest, I've never tried it, but if you think it's fun I might give it a look-see. =]

I just got a new Alienware gaming Computer with some nice stats might be worth it to try something new with the new set up. Made a huge difference in play in SWTOR.

Hopefully that won't be necessary (aside from just wanting to), I'd really hate not having this game anymore. This is the longest I've ever been in any MMO (10 years). Can't imagine life without it. I imagine it'd be like an itch you can't ever scratch. 😖

 

Ohhh nice - I've always wanted an Alienware rig, but they are horribly expensive here in New Zealand.  Out of my league, unfortunately.

EQ2 is WAY better than EverQuest.  DM me if you feel inclined to try it out and I'll roll a new character to assist.  There are flying mounts.....

I've tried ESO (too many third-party add-ons needed for QoL like a mini-map), STO, have a free account with LOTRO (but hardly use it), and of late FF14 (enough with the damned duties, already!). 

I also play (well, muck around in if I just feel like exploring) GW2 but my main is stuck on her personal story as I can't get past the quest. So I just wander around the place and look at the pretty scenery, and play with dyes.

So I do have options, but as a total Star Wars geek, SWTOR is my preferred time-waster 😆

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

1 hour ago, TziganeNZ said:

EQ2 is WAY better than EverQuest.  DM me if you feel inclined to try it out and I'll roll a new character to assist.  There are flying mounts.....

I'll remember that and thanks for the offer. Much obliged. 👍

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

14 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

YIKES!!!

[/picks up cell phone ... dials]

One ring tone!!

Dr. Headstrong's office ...

...  yeah this is Buzz ...  I'm having those nightmares again ...

🤣

Smart ass.  heh

[aeterno]

Not that we got much content from BW of late, but I can't imagine the new studio will have the capability to continue producing VO story content at all... which was just about the only reason to stick around.

That's basically the hutt lady warming up her vocal cords 

Bummer. 

 

[OlBuzzard]

7 hours ago, Jdast said:

I think the downturn in SWTOR's Steam numbers is a combo of three factors...

1) Concerns about the murky future;

2) Diablo 4; and 

3) Elder Scrolls Online (ESO) on June 5th released full-fledged expansion, Necrom, which includes a new class. 

I have no doubt I will fire up SWTOR on June 13th when 7.3 is released, but right now I'm happy in the other two major releases from the past few days.

I also have no doubt that I will play at least through 7.4. By then, we will probably have a better sense of the future SWTOR and if it is worth playing past 7.4.

 

Dasty

I agree that a number of new releases the last few weeks has definitely affected numbers elsewhere.  Even WoW (and the guild I'm in of several hundred) has seen a good drop.  IMO there is also a number of "free time slots" or "trial" periods offered with those releases.  A LOT of people will try those games decide that they don't like the new stuff and return to their normal routine.  Some ... obviously, will either just add another game to their play list and perhaps some will make a more permanent change.  This is simply the nature of the business.

I honestly believe that the downward spiral at SWTOR was accelerated at or around JUS ...  some called it the content drought.  (IMO it might have been prior).  All of that is almost immaterial.  But, as you have pointed out more than one occasion (and I agree totally) was the number of glaring bugs that was released with the new material that was coming out. 
**SoV is one such example.
** 7.0 .. the acceleration continued!
** The 10th anniversary (I'm not sure what someone was thinking at all) ... IMO  truly one of the saddest moments in SWTOR history and without question a hugely missed golden opportunity to just have some fun with the game.  Remember fun?  It was supposed to be CELEBRATION ...  I'm sitting here typing this and I'm still stunned with just how much I so wanted for the 10th anniversary to be THAT kind of fun and excitement (even if it were for just a few days / weeks) and maybe even ... oh well.  All of the wishing in the galaxy won't undo what has happened.
** The gearing system ???  A few like it ..  a LOT don't
** The secret group that lead to another downward spiral in the game design
** PvP disasters (yes plural)
** Crafting anyone ??
** The GS hamster wheel with little or no changes in rewards .. it's almost the main activity now (with a few small story releases scattered in between).

I'm certain that if others wanted to add to this list they could do so easily

This all spells out frustration on top of frustration.  

And yet ... we like the game???  This almost makes no sense.  But there are still a few moments of the game that will bring a smile.
** I loved the story behind SoV
** Legacy of the Sith (All of the Manaan areas) was a lot of fun (for the most part) .. Story was definitely good!
** Showdown on Ruhnuk was definitely well done and IMO one of the better releases in recent history. 

The frustration sets in when we realize that so much of everything positive is constantly overshadowed by the negative.  Some of those negatives were found in the form of game-breaking bugs!

Regardless of where this ends up ... overall it has been fun.

The future is always uncertain.  It is next to impossible for us to tell what will happen next for SWTOR.  I think a lot of us want things to continue since we have been here for so long and still like the overall genre.  IMO ... there's nothing wrong with that.  I just wish there was a lot more life to the game.  And .. I don't think that is an unrealistic expectation.

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[OlBuzzard]

17 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

[/snip / snip / snip / snip]

It doesn't feel like the end to me and the way I see it, it ain't over til the fat lady (or Baras) sings.

As long as it's not Klingon opera!  Please no!!  NOT that!!

😜