PVP Fatigue

[SentinalMasterWW]

Getting straight to the point, I'm taking a break from PVP, 

There is so many issues and just questionable design choices that is just hampering it for me, and perhaps others. These being, 

-Premades, they just ruin fun for players who Q solo. Even when I'm not fighting against them, most often when they are on my team, their just playing COD Deathmatch against the other team, usually we win the match, but there are times we loose because they'd rather farm their KD than try and win the match. 

-Poor Class Balancing, Madness still dominates, You have stealth players basically having no real opposition, Skank tanks everywhere, You have Jugs/Guardians who are not even spec'd into the tank spec just never dying, and my two favorite classes (Mercenary/Commando & Sniper/Slinger) are not doing that great, Yes Engi and IO are strong, alongside Virulence, But I'd rather play Gunnery or Marksman cause they are just fun, and I do, but with how tanky classes are and the kind of sad DMG output these classes have its not really fun. 

-Lack of Good Incentive, I already completed Season 2 of the PVP track, Got my 20 tokens and got the PVP Weapon set I wanted. Really thats it, Sure there are some other stuff from the PVP Vendor I'd try and get because they look cool, but there really isn't a drive for me right now to deal with the annoying stuff that PVP currently brings. I might see about coming back for season 3 of PVP for the rewards, but there really has to be some good PVP changes and the Rewards have to be good. So far all we've seen is that they are just updating the amount of medals you get from matches, Ok, not what a lot of us wanted. 

-General Toxicity, Look PVP is toxic, SWTOR players can be toxic, But just trying to have a decent conversation about improving the game especially PVP say like class balancing, just leads to players saying "Your trash, Im a god at PVP, I have 6 toons with Plat ranked flairs, Your opinion doesn't matter, get on my level" it gets old, I don't take it personally as its a casual game, but you can only tolerate it for so long before you just "ight Imma head out" where you have to remove yourself from it. I'm not calling anyone out, but I just have to distance myself from it. Reason I'm sharing this post is perhaps others feel the same currently, and if Bioware sees this hopefully they realize that PVP seasons is not enough to retain players, They have to fix the core issues if they want people to stick around for PVP. 

I'm not going to quit Playing SWTOR, I still enjoy the Game, Recently I've been trying my Hand at trying Operations and they have been a lot of fun, Right now I'm starting out with doing SM Operations to get the feel for them, than working my way to Vet, than HM, and at some point maybe even try at NIM Raiding as I've heard its really fun but also really challenging.  

[sithBracer]

  uh huh, I'm sure its all the class and not you

On 5/31/2023 at 12:42 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

Look, Commando is my main spec for this game, I love the playstyle and know it in and out,

 

On 5/31/2023 at 12:42 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

-Change Electro net to NOT be cleansable, Net is basically the only really solid thing these specs have and having it be cleansed really defeats Nets gimmick as a hinder to stop melee/Ranged specs, but especially melee specs. 

 

[septru]

9 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

-Lack of Good Incentive, I already completed Season 2 of the PVP track

 

I mean... ya. PvP Seasons are a grind. And when you finish that meaningless grind, well there's no real reason to keep PvPing. Especially, if you don't really have fun PvPing in the first place. 

[Whykara]

9 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Lack of Good Incentive, I already completed Season 2 of the PVP track, Got my 20 tokens and got the PVP Weapon set I wanted. Really thats it

10 minutes ago, septru said:

And when you finish that meaningless grind, well there's no real reason to keep PvPing

I like seasons but I think they have lead to people only playing because there's some fleeting reward to gain, and once that is done they get bored. This seasonal instant gratification makes people play for the wrong reasons. What has happened to playing the game because it's fun?

[Crazykidddd]

If you're not pvp'ing because you enjoy pvp'ing then you have absolutely no place being there. The fact people q for pvp to get chievos or other rewards is insane to me, and it's a huge part of why pvp is in such a deplorable place rn. The devs pushed all the RP'ers and PvE kids who don't have a clue how to follow a basic rotation to q for pvp by offering rewards for it. IF they werent there in the first place, they shouldnt be there, period. 
That said I kind of agree with the 2 first points, but not entirely. 
Also, about 99% of the players who talk like that are complete and utter jokes, ranked flairs or not (*especially* platinum), they have no idea how to play so just /ignore and move on. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Crazykidddd

[krackcommando]

6 minutes ago, Crazykidddd said:

If you're not pvp'ing because you enjoy pvp'ing then you have absolutely no place being there.

nah. there's nothing wrong with PVPing for a reward.

let's look at it the other way. I hate PVE in this game. I like doing the story once (or I did when there was a story. it's been rather stale since the enternal empire stuff). anyway...I abhor the PVE in this game. yet when I want to level or gear quickly, what is (usually) the fastest thing to do? queue up vet FPs (get hammered station!). run solo heroics (kill me now!). etc. Are you saying I have no business doing that b/c I don't want to do it? That's absurd.

now I grant you, there's nothing that will entice me to play GSF a 2nd time. I don't care how "easy" the gear grind is (why does GSF reward currency for gear in the first place? shouldn't it just be for ships? whatever. I don't care.).

I don't actually have a problem with @Xedry playing pvp because he wants the seasonal candy. hell, I'm thankful for PVEers jumping into pvp for seasonal candy. it fills out the queues and ensures arenas always pop (there are other issues with WZs). What I do have a problem with is that all of the "rewards" for pvp can be earned by losing every single match, by literally stealthing out in range of a node and soaking defender + winner points, and giving away ACTUAL trophy rewards from past seasons that WERE merit-/skill-based as opposed to being free for anyone who wants them. if you're bad it just takes longer. THAT is a massive slap in the face.

I would be absolutely fine with re-releasing (e.g.) the Furious weapon set or the s1 Rancor mount as seasonal rewards given as merit-based prizes (trophies). It's kinda derpy to recycle prizes like that, but at least it doesn't destroy the entire value around which the trophy exists. and let's get real. they already reskinned the rancor and gave it away. it's not like it's terribly difficult to make something kinda/sorta like what the trophy is but make it clearly distinguishable too. this "replica" tag is meaningless. it might as well be the original thing. what a joke.

PVP Seasons is just another Galactic Seasons mini hamster wheel (sometimes they actually align and I complete my GS weekly simply by doing PVP, which completes the PVP season - totally by accident. I could care less about GS). they're grinds that I will never understand. totally meaningless grinds. there are two things that keep me playing a game: evolving story and post-story (also called "end game") content. end game content needs to be dynamic. grinding is something you should be doing to level, not as an end-game exercise in itself. like if I'm playing an RPG and I go out killing monsters all day, I'm doing that to grind xp to level up and buy new weapons so that I can go kill a boss that I couldn't get by without more XP/gear.  The point of grinding is to obtain something to further your progress in the game, not to be the end game itself. this crap is so arse-backward, I just don't have the words for it.

[VegaMist]

15 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

-General Toxicity, Look PVP is toxic, SWTOR players can be toxic, But just trying to have a decent conversation about improving the game especially PVP say like class balancing, just leads to players saying "Your trash, Im a god at PVP, I have 6 toons with Plat ranked flairs, Your opinion doesn't matter, get on my level" it gets old, I don't take it personally as its a casual game, but you can only tolerate it for so long before you just "ight Imma head out" where you have to remove yourself from it. I'm not calling anyone out, but I just have to distance myself from it. Reason I'm sharing this post is perhaps others feel the same currently, and if Bioware sees this hopefully they realize that PVP seasons is not enough to retain players, They have to fix the core issues if they want people to stick around for PVP.

So, you are saying you offered an unsolicited advice and most didn't take it well? No matter where you are - in game or in life - 9 out of 10 people react negatively to advice they haven't specifically asked for (and many will react negatively even if they did ask for it). And rather than stomping your feet and storming out of the room - "ight Imma head out" - maybe focus on your own game rather than advice others. Plus, if you're having "discussions" in pvp, that means YOU'RE not playing. Literally was in a match yesterday when several players on our team got too busy typing insults at each other and having an elaborate "discussion" regarding which one of them sucks more while the other team started scoring one after another (easy when half of your opponents are just standing around typing). It's not PVP what is toxic - it's just some people have an emotional control of a 5-year old. That's just life.

[septru]

1 hour ago, Crazykidddd said:

If you're not pvp'ing because you enjoy pvp'ing then you have absolutely no place being there.

I agree with @krackcommando.

 

There is nothing wrong with how the PvP Seasons gets casuals interested in PvP. It would be nice is old ranked rewards were restricted as actual merit based rewards. But I honestly don't mind the fact that the PvP Seasons are participation based rewards. 

 

However, there is a big problem when those participation rewards are the ONLY rewards. Because once those players earn their participation rewards, there is nothing left to keep them engaged in PvP. And that's not the player's fault. That is BioWare's fault. Only a terribly incompetent, pitiful development team like Bioware could implement a reward systems that drives  away both longtime PvPers and casuals. And the solution is so obvious, you have to wonder how clueless the devs are of their own game. Give extra rewards for skill. Give players, both casuals and dedicated PvPers, a mountain to climb. Achieving goals with skill is so much more fulfilling than mindlessly completing weeklies. 

[SentinalMasterWW]

2 hours ago, Crazykidddd said:

If you're not pvp'ing because you enjoy pvp'ing then you have absolutely no place being there. The fact people q for pvp to get chievos or other rewards is insane to me, and it's a huge part of why pvp is in such a deplorable place rn. The devs pushed all the RP'ers and PvE kids who don't have a clue how to follow a basic rotation to q for pvp by offering rewards for it. IF they werent there in the first place, they shouldnt be there, period. 
That said I kind of agree with the 2 first points, but not entirely. 
Also, about 99% of the players who talk like that are complete and utter jokes, ranked flairs or not (*especially* platinum), they have no idea how to play so just /ignore and move on. 

I enjoy PVPing, I did it before Seasons was even a thing. I just am taking a break from it because I'm tired of seeing the same stuff over and over again, Premades, Meta specs running wild, etc. It gets stale after a while, Also regarding rewards, Some people Q PVP to get Tech frags and gear. It's how I got my toon to 332, than later upgraded via OP Gear to 336. There is nothing wrong with Players Qing PVP just to get better gear, its what that is an option.

8 hours ago, Whykara said:

I like seasons but I think they have lead to people only playing because there's some fleeting reward to gain, and once that is done they get bored. This seasonal instant gratification makes people play for the wrong reasons. What has happened to playing the game because it's fun?

It was fun, but than they made Questionable Design choices, and think PVP Seasons alone can keep PVP alive while ignoring the Issues prevalent. 

 

2 hours ago, VegaMist said:

So, you are saying you offered an unsolicited advice and most didn't take it well? No matter where you are - in game or in life - 9 out of 10 people react negatively to advice they haven't specifically asked for (and many will react negatively even if they did ask for it). And rather than stomping your feet and storming out of the room - "ight Imma head out" - maybe focus on your own game rather than advice others. Plus, if you're having "discussions" in pvp, that means YOU'RE not playing. Literally was in a match yesterday when several players on our team got too busy typing insults at each other and having an elaborate "discussion" regarding which one of them sucks more while the other team started scoring one after another (easy when half of your opponents are just standing around typing). It's not PVP what is toxic - it's just some people have an emotional control of a 5-year old. That's just life.

I never said I had Discussions in-game, A lot of these happen in the forums/Reddit, etc. I have NEVER once Rage Quitted a match or stop participating, Even when we are getting literal farmed by a premade I keep playing. 

The point of that Reason, was that some Vocal PVP players think that if you are not in the top 3% of PVP and have a fancy Ranked flair, your opinion does not matter. I'm not saying all ranked Players are like this, I met some chill Plat ranked players while PVPing who are legit just looking for a fun time.  

[VegaMist]

7 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

I never said I had Discussions in-game, A lot of these happen in the forums/Reddit, etc. I have NEVER once Rage Quitted a match or stop participating, Even when we are getting literal farmed by a premade I keep playing. 

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood that you wrote above.

11 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

The point of that Reason, was that some Vocal PVP players think that if you are not in the top 3% of PVP and have a fancy Ranked flair, your opinion does not matter. I'm not saying all ranked Players are like this, I met some chill Plat ranked players while PVPing who are legit just looking for a fun time. 

From what I've seen, most good PVP players have nothing to prove to anyone. And those who have things to prove are rarely good. And for the exceptions you are talking about, why does their opinion matter to you? You are not a golden dollar to be liked by everyone. And especially since, as you said, they don't care about your opinion (why care about theirs?). There will always be occasional rage monkeys, especially in competitive setting - unfortunately, that's how some people let out their emotions. The easiest way to deal with them is not to engage. And when you get them in PVP setting, fortunately you only have to tolerate them for a few minutes at a time, since, even if you encounter them again in the next match, they usually have run out of steam by then.

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, septru said:

Give extra rewards for skill. Give players, both casuals and dedicated PvPers, a mountain to climb

100% this 👆

[krackcommando]

27 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

100% this 👆

it seems so incredibly obvious and logical. iunno. I just don't know. it's incredibly frustrating. it's not only that rated was eliminated. not like I've queued rated in 2-3 years. it's that they have this opportunity to accommodate both enthusiasts and casuals in the same system, and they just said, "nah. only reward the lowest common denominator." oh. also...we're raising the maximum premade to a full 8m ops. it's comedy. 😄

[Samcuu]

On 6/1/2023 at 11:33 PM, SentinalMasterWW said:

Premades, they just ruin fun for players who Q solo. Even when I'm not fighting against them, most often when they are on my team, their just playing COD Deathmatch against the other team, usually we win the match, but there are times we loose because they'd rather farm their KD than try and win the match. 

I don't get much time to play these days, but I was online pvp'ing all weekend long. Friday, Saturday I was Solo. Sunday I grouped with a friend in a 2 man premade and Monday I joined a 6 man. I rarely saw any premades when I was solo or grouped with one other person. When I was in the 6 man I was almost exclusively queue against another premade. I do think the matchmaking is working really well I was quite surprised to see this. Even tho I was in a 2 man group and I knew there were larger premades queueing, never saw them once. 

 

On 6/1/2023 at 11:33 PM, SentinalMasterWW said:

But just trying to have a decent conversation about improving the game especially PVP say like class balancing, just leads to players saying "Your trash, Im a god at PVP, I have 6 toons with Plat ranked flairs, Your opinion doesn't matter, get on my level"

This is something else that I'll admit seems crazy to me. I played a ton of matches this weekend and nobody talked to me like this. One person said that I was sad for queueing as a tank, and sarcastically mentioned that it's hard to win in a premade (which I was solo and no premade on my team lol) and another guy said my premade (was in one this time) was bad. So there's a bit of talking but not anywhere remotely on this level that I really ever see or experience.

Only person who bothered to whisper me after a match was someone asking for help on how to play. I showed them a rotation, stat priorities, and showed them how to get gear. Player in question was wearing 324s with no tactical ect. The pvp community really needs to help these ppl because I do think there are a lot of new ppl to pvp who are interested but there's not an easy path to figuring things out unfortunately. Still tho there's some promise out there.

Anyways at the end of the day it's all anecdotal. I've taken long breaks from the game but always come back when I get the mmo bug and want some good old fashioned trinity style mmo pvp. Some times ya just need some distance I can tell u right now grass isn't usually greener. All other mmos usually suck as far as pvp goes and the only decent one that has a lot of effort put into the game (wow) the gear discrepancy and premade issue makes swtor look great in comparison 😂😂