Odds on fresh start and/or classic servers?

[Balameb]

Regarding chances:

Classic: Zero to even negative chances. They can't even mantain one version properly now, how would they mantain two?

Fresh Starts: Like New world did as locked(no character transfer) new servers.... Low chances as we don't have population for that. I certainly don't know why Eric mentioned fresh starts as something separated from APAC. MAybe they thought about it at one point as a way to solve economy issues, but really doubt they would got this route.

New region: Decent chances. While technically a fresh start, it would be open to transfers (probably even make them very cheap) so it won't be 'fresh' in terms of legacies and economy.

11 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

his is more along the lines of what I wonder.  What can AWS provide in terms of features and options that BioWare's current server infrastructure can not?  Does a new server need to be added to give APAC players the low latency they enjoyed during the Shae Vizla test?  Or can AWS support server instances from one server in different regions?  I've no idea since I've no experience with configuring applications for use in an AWS environment.

AWS certainly can facilitate things, but you also need the application to support a multi-region setup.

On the other hand, multi-region could bring other potential problems if not done properly. Imaging you have 5 or 6 APAC players in queue for an arena. They system would prioritize starting one arena in APAC. Now it needs to fill 2 or 3 spots with players from outside. If those players are in NA, then they would experience what APAC do every day now. But what if you have a South American player? It would be a Torture with ping times going from 400 to even 600 (already tested it myself in Shae Vizla).

[TrixxieTriss]

41 minutes ago, jedimasterjac said:

On mobile so it won’t be properly formatted:

 

Again, thank you all for your participation and feedback! We have a lot of data and commentary to chew on before making a decision on what comes next for a possible APAC or fresh start server. That said, Shae Vizla was alsoanother scale test for us having our servers "in the cloud" and so this test also helps drive us towards the goal ofgetting our service and our servers all onto AWS.

Nothing specific to announce on timing or specifics, but know there is a lot happening behind the scenes still on these efforts. We'll communicate more when we can.

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929191-game-update-73-livestream-recap/

 

Thanks for the link. I didn’t see that Musco had posted again after the initial post in that thread. 

[Traceguy]

2 hours ago, Balameb said:

Classic: Zero to even negative chances. They can't even mantain one version properly now, how would they mantain two?

If it was a v1.0 server or similar, it wouldn't need to be maintained. Just leave it as is. Updating it would defeat the purpose.

[Balameb]

2 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

If it was a v1.0 server or similar, it wouldn't need to be maintained. Just leave it as is. Updating it would defeat the purpose.

Bugs will always apear, more so in old code. Imagine exploiters knowing that X version has an issue that was resolved in X.2. BW would need to look for the fix and try to apply it without applying all X.2. There is no single version that could be considered bug and exploit free that you can set and forget (that would likely be for any game, not just swtor).

[commanderwar]

In my opinion, fresh server is fine. However, no for classic servers for different reasons.

1. For one, no game update from launch to now has ever been popular enough to justify it's own version of the game. Classic WOW was popular enough and loved. Swtor classic would not have a big enough playerbase for it.  I also feel the want for classic swtor is seen through rose tinted glasses imo.

2. Swtor 1.0 is not that much different than now. Except then you had to pay for abilities, you had to gear up companions, everything took longer to complete, less content and it just wasn't fun imo. Classic WOW was really different from current WOW because of cataclysm.

3. BW struggles to manage one game the last thing they need is to manage another version.

 

[jedimasterjac]

30 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

If it was a v1.0 server or similar, it wouldn't need to be maintained. Just leave it as is.

But who would stick around a v1 server that has, what, HM BT and EV and KP?

Launching a “classic” SWTOR without any alterations seems disastrous when the game, notably, had a huge exodus to begin with in the classic era because of a lack of content. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by jedimasterjac

[Traceguy]

5 minutes ago, jedimasterjac said:

But who would stick around a v1 server that has, what, HM BT and EV and KP?

I'd love more than anything to have a server without the level sync crap they added in. Pre SoR was lit. You could use Heroic Moment without a companion. Collicoid War Games was in Group Finder, and you could also use Group Finder to find KDY groups.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Traceguy

[jedimasterjac]

2 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

I'd love more than anything to have a server without the level sync crap they added in. Pre SoR was lit. You could even use Heroic Moment without a companion. Collicoid War Games was in Group Finder, and you could also use Group Finder to find KDY groups.

I’d love to replay the Dread Masters era. Probably my high point. I just can’t imagine it being something that could sustain itself. 

[Char_Ell]

3 hours ago, xordevoreaux said:

1. Instant scalability. All Bioware has to do is throw money to rent more server capacity, AWS takes care of the rest.

2. Administrative overhead for servers is now AWS's problem, not Bioware's, meaning in the past, if a top-notch systems engineer walked out the door of Bioware, ouch. Replacing that person, who just left with a whole bunch of institutional knowledge of how Bioware systems need to be maintained, would have been expensive and time consuming. Now it's a  non-issue for Bioware.

3. Location-specific service. When Bioware operated the Virginia servers, they were in... Virginia, limiting connection speeds for some players in the APAC region, South Africa, etc.. Now Bioware can take advantage of a worldwide system of AWS data centers, spanning 31 geographic regions with more planned.

This all sounds good and possibly more expensive than current server infrastructure BioWare has.  As you say if the transition to AWS allows BioWare/EA to reduce or eliminate dedicated server infrastructure resources the funds for these resources can be reallocated to the AWS infrastructure.  I think BioWare pretty much mentioned the same in their news post announcing the Shae Vizla server test.  Like TrixieTriss, I have also tried reading up on AWS features and while I definitely agree AWS has a system of data centers that spans 6 of 7 continents and BioWare can add or reduce capacity as needed I'm just not sure how that really changes BioWare's options when it comes to server configuration.  I think TrixieTriss did good job of summing up the issue as AWS having the infrastructure to support better access from across the world that current server infrastructure does but it may be limitations of the game itself that prevent BioWare from taking full advantage of AWS capabilities.  From my perspective the game's current population does not support adding a new server period, even if it's in APAC region.  But if, for example, Satele Shan could be configured in AWS such that the server could have instances running in APAC and NA regions so that both players in APAC and NA have low latency server connections instead of only one of the two enjoying low latency connections then this would be best of both worlds.  Even if this scenario is feasible, I still can't envision how group play that included people from both regions (PvP, operations, flashpoints, uprisings, etc.) would be able to run on a Satele Shan server instance in APAC and an instance in NA.  In these scenarios it doesn't seem like it would be possible for a multi-region group to be able to run on their closest server instance without game performance problems.  I expect that the warzone or flashpoint instance of a multi-region group would have to be hosted on the same server instance which would increase latency for the group member(s) not in that region.

12 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Can you please link where he stated this so I can understand the context of his statement better. 

Hello TrixieTriss.  If you click on the "right turn arrow" icon in the upper right corner of the Eric Musco text block I quoted that will take you to the post it came from.

[Diamaht]

Well its hard for us to know their financials.  They would know and decide on that.

I wouldn't want 1.0.  What I would personally like, is 1.0's gearing system and companions, along with 1.0s leveling pace.

The game was immensely popular at launch.  People left because they ran out of content a few months in.

Keep all the current content, revert or revamp the gearing, nerf the companions, slow down the leveling.

[hillerbees]

Would a fresh start server be one that you could not transfer characters/funds to? - could be mildly interesting.  I sort of have that in the German server but it comes with the difficulty of not being able to speak German!

I'd have no interest in going back to game like at launch as walking for 14 levels is zero craic.

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

Even if this scenario is feasible, I still can't envision how group play that included people from both regions (PvP, operations, flashpoints, uprisings, etc.) would be able to run on a Satele Shan server instance in APAC and an instance in NA.  In these scenarios it doesn't seem like it would be possible for a multi-region group to be able to run on their closest server instance without game performance problems.  I expect that the warzone or flashpoint instance of a multi-region group would have to be hosted on the same server instance which would increase latency for the group member(s) not in that region.

BioWare might be able to geolocate a group  instance closer to the APAC region than now. Ie, I don’t know if there is an AWS farm in Hawaii or not, but that might shave 100ms off the ping for APAC & NA. That could be used as a group instance half way between APAC & NA 

Edited May 15, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Diamaht]

42 minutes ago, hillerbees said:

Would a fresh start server be one that you could not transfer characters/funds to? - could be mildly interesting.  I sort of have that in the German server but it comes with the difficulty of not being able to speak German!

I'd have no interest in going back to game like at launch as walking for 14 levels is zero craic.

Yeah I would agree, no character or funds transfers. Cartel unlocks would be there of course.

[TrixxieTriss]

3 minutes ago, Diamaht said:

Yeah I would agree, no character or funds transfers. Cartel unlocks would be there of course.

But what if it’s an APAC server? Surely you’d agree that APAC players should be able to move their characters? Especially seeing as we were forced to originally move them to NA when they shut our originals servers. 

[Diamaht]

2 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But what if it’s an APAC server? Surely you’d agree that APAC players should be able to move their characters? Especially seeing as we were forced to originally move them to NA when they shut our originals servers. 

Yeah, I'm not talking about the Asia Pacific server.  I'm talking about a new server here in the states/europe.  No transfers, no funds there.

The Asian server is something to offer better sevice to them so yeah, let them transfer.

[TrixxieTriss]

Just now, Diamaht said:

Yeah, I'm not talking about the Asia Pacific server.  I'm talking about a new server here in the states/europe.  No transfers, no funds there.

The Asian server is something to offer better sevice to them so yeah, let them transfer.

I can’t see how adding another NA or EU server would be beneficial to the game. The NA population is already spread too thin across 2 servers & the EU is even worse spread across 3. It’s makes no logical sense to add a brand new server to either geolocation. 

[Diamaht]

2 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I can’t see how adding another NA or EU server would be beneficial to the game. The NA population is already spread too thin across 2 servers & the EU is even worse spread across 3. It’s makes no logical sense to add a brand new server to either geolocation. 

Its a fresh start with a fresh economy, names are available etc.  Basically it feels like its yours.  And everyone is experiencing that with you.  People don't have 40 alts, you can actually find a name that you actually like.  You don't walk into a guilds fully decked starship they have been working on for 10 years, you start your own along with everone else.

Basically you get to experience that feeling a new start, and you have that in common with everyone else there.

For us returning players, and I would imagine for new players, it's the opposite of that for an experience.   You always feel like you are swimming in other peoples stuff.

 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

21 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I can’t see how adding another NA or EU server would be beneficial to the game. The NA population is already spread too thin across 2 servers & the EU is even worse spread across 3. It’s makes no logical sense to add a brand new server to either geolocation.

Agreed. That'd make no sense whatsoever. Which is why I'm thinking it may be an APAC server. Least that would make sense and would be beneficial to a certain segment of the player base.

A new APAC server is the only server I would support as not a total waste of resources.

Plus, it'd make the Trixxie-Baby happy. =]

Edited May 15, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Ardrossan]

2 hours ago, Diamaht said:

Keep all the current content, revert or revamp the gearing, nerf the companions, slow down the leveling.

Buy/use the White Acute Module, use green mods for leveling, set comps to DPS or tank and avoid using rank 50 comps outside of crafting. 

This really isn't that difficult to figure out. It's not even like gimping yourself the way others have suggested over the years not gearing up or setting your comp to passive. You could do those things but they cheapen the experience. I've said this like three times in the thread and you haven't replied so I assume you find the fact that all this already exists in-game inconvenient to your dream that would use up a lot of dev time and resources and fraction the server populations even more than they already are. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Ardrossan

[denavin]

Why in the world would I want to loose EVERYTHING I have worked for and gained over 8 years of game play.....

NO!

[xordevoreaux]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

BioWare might be able to geolocate a group  instance closer to the APAC region than now. Ie, I don’t know if there is an AWS farm in Hawaii or not, but that might shave 100ms off the ping for APAC & NA. That could be used as a group instance half way between APAC & NA 

Would it help to use the one in Australia?

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Diamaht said:

Its a fresh start with a fresh economy, names are available etc.  Basically it feels like its yours.  And everyone is experiencing that with you.  People don't have 40 alts, you can actually find a name that you actually like.  You don't walk into a guilds fully decked starship they have been working on for 10 years, you start your own along with everone else.

Basically you get to experience that feeling a new start, and you have that in common with everyone else there.

For us returning players, and I would imagine for new players, it's the opposite of that for an experience.   You always feel like you are swimming in other peoples stuff.

 

With your suggestion, you’d be spreading the player base out even more. It would be nonsensical from a business position to do this. And EA & BioWare are all about making money before anything else. 

This sort of scenario only makes business sense if BioWare were to merge the current 2 NA servers or merge the EU servers into 1 & open a new fresh one(s) like you describe, but in different geolocations. Otherwise you are diluting the player base way too much for group content to work properly in the long term. 

But ideally BioWare would have only 1 NA server, 1 EU server, 1 APAC server. The current EU language servers could all be accommodated within 1 EU server via seperate language instances. And they could resolve conflicting naming issues like other games do (there are multiple options) so people don’t lose their character names. 

There is no business or game reason to have more than one server per region these days, except for Geolocation. Having 2 NA servers in the same location makes no sense. The player base is too small now as it is & the game is too old to really see any substantial growth in the established NA & EU regions.

Adding an APAC server still makes sense if BioWare has a business plan to bring back enough APAC players & allow current ones to migrate back to the APAC region for free, otherwise it will fail.

[TrixxieTriss]

59 minutes ago, xordevoreaux said:

Would it help to use the one in Australia?

Sure, a seperate APAC server would be excellent in Australia.

But I was thinking more along the lines of cross server queues for group content.

And if we had an APAC server in Australia, BioWare could setup group instances between the regions. So if you played PvP from NA & APAC, you would kinda meet in the middle (ping wise). 

These instances wouldn’t belong to a specific server, so would require less resources in the AWS. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Diamaht]

4 hours ago, Ardrossan said:

Buy/use the White Acute Module, use green mods for leveling, set comps to DPS or tank and avoid using rank 50 comps outside of crafting. 

This really isn't that difficult to figure out. It's not even like gimping yourself the way others have suggested over the years not gearing up or setting your comp to passive. You could do those things but they cheapen the experience. I've said this like three times in the thread and you haven't replied so I assume you find the fact that all this already exists in-game inconvenient to your dream that would use up a lot of dev time and resources and fraction the server populations even more than they already are. 

Or just play a different game to be honest.  No one is "simply" going to rearrange their gameplay on that level, they will just find a different service that suits.

When it's a change you guys like it's "you need to spend more money on this game".  When it's a change you don't like it's "I inspected Bioware's finances and concluded that they could never afford such a thing."

Nah, I think a clean slate is something that would do wonders for this game and increase it's population.  Hopefully once the make the economy and crafting changes are set, we'll see some new worlds open up.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Diamaht

[jedimasterjac]

6 hours ago, Diamaht said:

The game was immensely popular at launch.  People left because they ran out of content a few months in.

Keep all the current content, revert or revamp the gearing, nerf the companions, slow down the leveling.

I’d be hesitant to assume the pace was a draw. 
 

Keep in mind that SWTOR existed in a Wrath of the Lich King-era world. It explicitly marketed itself as a more casual (and improved) approach to MMOs; it’s shifted alongside the entire genre.