7.3 Credit Economy Initiative: Updates and the GTN

[TrixxieTriss]

58 minutes ago, starbuckone said:

To combat inflation the secret is to limit credit transactions to 1 billion from one player to another either via GTN or in person trades. It would cause credit farmers to price their sales more reasonable.

That would have worked 2-3 years ago before inflation was allowed to run away unchecked. But because it took BW so long to address this issue, many items are now worth more than 1 Billion. People just use those items as defacto currency above 1 billion by splitting up packs into individual items.

What the Devs have already done is making an impact & removing large amounts of credits from the game that were avoiding the GTN fees. But it will take time, probably 12 months till enough credits are removed to start causing real permanent deflation. 

The Devs could speed this process up some by actually increasing the trade amount on the GTN to 4 Billion credits. I know this doesn’t help people who don’t even have a Billion credits, but eventually those prices will fall back below 4 Billion because more credits would be leaving the game than are being produced. And as long as the Devs keep it that way until balance is restored, then deflation is inevitable. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[starbuckone]

49 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That would have worked 2-3 years ago before inflation was allowed to run away unchecked. But because it took BW so long to address this issue, many items are now worth more than 1 Billion. People just use those items as defacto currency above 1 billion by splitting up packs into individual items.

What the Devs have already done is making an impact & removing large amounts of credits from the game that were avoiding the GTN fees. But it will take time, probably 12 months till enough credits are removed to start causing real permanent deflation. 

The Devs could speed this process up some by actually increasing the trade amount on the GTN to 4 Billion credits. I know this doesn’t help people who don’t even have a Billion credits, but eventually those prices will fall back below 4 Billion because more credits would be leaving the game than are being produced. And as long as the Devs keep it that way until balance is restored, then deflation is inevitable. 

wrong because the farmers would still avoid the gtn so they are not taxed. The fact is as long as the sellers are still able to make billions off a single sale the economy will not get fixed. You look at cartel packs history just a few years ago they sold for 80M each on the GTN now they sell for almost a billion on the gtn and the price of packs/hypercrates on the store haven't changed just the greedy players who sell in game currency for real world currency. I constantly see people promoting a certain website and even today a guy promoting selling and buying credits via his personal social media account. 

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, starbuckone said:

wrong because the farmers would still avoid the gtn so they are not taxed. The fact is as long as the sellers are still able to make billions off a single sale the economy will not get fixed. You look at cartel packs history just a few years ago they sold for 80M each on the GTN now they sell for almost a billion on the gtn and the price of packs/hypercrates on the store haven't changed just the greedy players who sell in game currency for real world currency. I constantly see people promoting a certain website and even today a guy promoting selling and buying credits via his personal social media account. 

How am I wrong when they can’t avoid the fees/taxes with the current 7.3 changes?
You can’t even gift something without paying the fees. That include transferring credits or giving an item to a friend.
Increasing the GTN sales to 4 billion won’t allow them to avoid it. And it will actually remove more credits than before. 
Either you've not kept up to date with the changes implemented in 7.3 or you don’t know what you’re talking about. 
But please, tell me how I’m wrong again 🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited June 29, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[eabevella]

4 hours ago, starbuckone said:

wrong because the farmers would still avoid the gtn so they are not taxed. The fact is as long as the sellers are still able to make billions off a single sale the economy will not get fixed. You look at cartel packs history just a few years ago they sold for 80M each on the GTN now they sell for almost a billion on the gtn and the price of packs/hypercrates on the store haven't changed just the greedy players who sell in game currency for real world currency. I constantly see people promoting a certain website and even today a guy promoting selling and buying credits via his personal social media account. 

Ultimate Cartel Pack is <90m on SF right now.

I just bought 2 that listed at 80m.

Tax is a correct step.

I proposed to raise the GTN cap to 4B mainly for the convenience of buyers/sellers.

[Vyzra]

@JoeStramaglia I was wondering if there is a chance you guys are considering to work on the cartelmarket to include a "Gift to a friend" option.

With this I could gift my friends without the 3 days bound to me time and not have to earn credits before I am able to send it to them.

I am not sure how that would affect the credits Initiative, but I can imagine it would be a bit more userfriendly.

[Balameb]

11 hours ago, starbuckone said:

You look at cartel packs history just a few years ago they sold for 80M each on the GTN now they sell for almost a billion on the gtn

In SF, even at its peak a few months ago it was around 350/400 mill per pack. And as pointed already, price now is way lower.

I think you might be confusing the stack price with the unit price. Lots of pack sellers group a couple of packs and try to round to 1 bill or close to it.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Balameb

[eabevella]

Also there is some crazy dude posting pages of Tulak Hord's Lightsaber for 1B on the SF GTN. The thing was 12B a few months ago lol

There are also quite a few >1b items back to the GTN too. If the GTN cap is raised, there will be more ppl posting items there.

[septru]

On 6/27/2023 at 11:59 AM, Whykara said:

I just wanted to give a quick shoutout to Joe Stramaglia for frequently lurking on this forum. It's nice to know someone at least reads what the community posts 👏

I wanted to actually piggyback on this. @JoeStramaglia could have easily turned off this off in his settings so that we wouldn't know when he was reading feedback. But he actively didn't. He really is a great dude.

 

I wish more of the devs turned this feature on in their settings. 

[TrixxieTriss]

6 hours ago, eabevella said:

There are also quite a few >1b items back to the GTN too. If the GTN cap is raised, there will be more ppl posting items there.

Exactly 😊 Which means more choices for people to browse. And they’ll be taxed as usual & even more credits will leave the game. Which will have a downward pressure on inflation. It’s a win-win scenario. 
 

[AbsolutGrndZero]

So today when doing Dread Fortress, a Holocron of Fear dropped.  I don't have one, so I asked if I could get it if he didn't need it.  He opened trade, and... canceled.  745,000 credits to give it to me for free.  Like, What the heck?  I told him I agreed, that was exorbitant and there is no way I'd pay that if we were reversed either. This is a person in an operation willing to give an item free of charge, and they have to pay a fee to do so? Of 745k?   That's pure insanity, and the fact that I personally could pay that fee 2000 times over is completely beside the point.  I am not the majority (and heck, I'm not anywhere near those that are the "problem" they think this will fix... those that are the actual problem wouldn't even blink like I do) who couldn't afford that.  Plus, did I mention he wanted to give it to me free and clear?

Again I say, before this patch I used to regularly go to Tython and give away free pink crystals to new players, but I quit.  I'm sure the price to do so is probably way cheaper, but the price doesn't matter.  I should be able to gift things to new players without paying a tax to do so.

[Nenluen]

Hello Everyone,

New(ish) player here, 28 Trooper.  While playing with my partner (23 Scoundrel), I went to trade her a level 24 pistol I had crafted and was rather shocked to see that the game was asking that I fork over 27,000 credits to make the transfer.

While not a lot for a bunch of seasoned players, that was about 1/4 of the total credits I have on this character.

It doesn't feel like this little gun is actually worth the 7 million credits that the one of it that is being sold on the GTN is listed for, which is probably skewing the price so the game thinks it's worth 330k or so.

Regards.

 

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Nenluen said:

Hello Everyone,

New(ish) player here, 28 Trooper.  While playing with my partner (23 Scoundrel), I went to trade her a level 24 pistol I had crafted and was rather shocked to see that the game was asking that I fork over 27,000 credits to make the transfer.

While not a lot for a bunch of seasoned players, that was about 1/4 of the total credits I have on this character.

It doesn't feel like this little gun is actually worth the 7 million credits that the one of it that is being sold on the GTN is listed for, which is probably skewing the price so the game thinks it's worth 330k or so.

Regards.

 

Are you in a guild together? If so & have been for over 30 days, you can place the gun in the Guild Bank & she could retrieve it for no cost. Just make sure you check with the GM first & let them know what you’re doing. 

[Balameb]

12 hours ago, Nenluen said:

Hello Everyone,

New(ish) player here, 28 Trooper.  While playing with my partner (23 Scoundrel), I went to trade her a level 24 pistol I had crafted and was rather shocked to see that the game was asking that I fork over 27,000 credits to make the transfer.

While not a lot for a bunch of seasoned players, that was about 1/4 of the total credits I have on this character.

It doesn't feel like this little gun is actually worth the 7 million credits that the one of it that is being sold on the GTN is listed for, which is probably skewing the price so the game thinks it's worth 330k or so.

Regards.

 

You are correct in that it should not charge you that much (ar at all).

What you are doing about crafting stuff for your level also sounds reasonable, and what lots of people would consider natural. Now, here is were SWTOR shows the crafting didn't age well.

Basically. You don't need low level gear crafting. Not to gear up and not to level you crafting. To level your crafting, just stick with the basic bonded attachments/components, that alone works fine. And to gear, you can keep your weapon up to date with green mods from vendor. The story gives you at least one main hand that can be modded. Other than that, if your accounts are new and you don't have enough moddable gear, heroics (and conquest) gives even better gear (blue, like crafted).

[LD_Little_Dragon]

38 minutes ago, Balameb said:

 

Basically. You don't need low level gear crafting.

Correction, you don't need it for equipped gear, but you might want them for the cosmetic look.  There are still some nice crafted items without a cartel equivalent.

Bioware added weapons to outfitter, and then does nonsense like the new 'tax' on gifts to limit giving/trading stuff to friends or just being nice to new players.

[Balameb]

26 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

Correction, you don't need it for equipped gear, but you might want them for the cosmetic look.  There are still some nice crafted items without a cartel equivalent.

Bioware added weapons to outfitter, and then does nonsense like the new 'tax' on gifts to limit giving/trading stuff to friends or just being nice to new players.

Yes, i meant crafing for gearing. It can still be good for cosmetics.

And while i agree with taxing some stuff outside GTN, i think it should be limited to End game gear(augs only currently), and things that could potentially be turned into currencies (like packs and hypercrates). 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Balameb

[Annauk]

Can't you just sell credits to us direct and cut out the bots? Works in other games.

[Balameb]

4 hours ago, Annauk said:

Can't you just sell credits to us direct and cut out the bots? Works in other games.

The first part is already been done, it has been for years. It just require to purchase a CM item, then sell on market. That is u$s to Credits and is not that different to what other games do with currencies exchange that are subject of supply and demand.

The key is controlling bots, credit sellers and credit generation (including exploits).

And it seems they are doing it a lot better recently. Last weekend i was farming seasons on multiple servers and saw seller advertisment in two of them. They even stop packing by billions (now is by 100M) and their current price is a lot more expensive than the legal route.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

Yea, I tested and if I want to be nice and go to Tython and give a new player a sweet orange crystal, it would cost me 8000 credits.  Totally free, but it wants me to pay 8000 credits.  No, you are not in my guild for 30 days and even if you were, we arent giving you guild bank access.

Then above I told the story of the Holocron of Fear.

[DeannaVoyager]

18 hours ago, Balameb said:

The first part is already been done, it has been for years. It just require to purchase a CM item, then sell on market. That is u$s to Credits and is not that different to what other games do with currencies exchange that are subject of supply and demand.

The key is controlling bots, credit sellers and credit generation (including exploits).

 

Unless you are buying a specific item and not a cartel pack, it's not guaranteed in-game credits. Even if you buy something you know you can sell for certain amount of credits, you'll still have to wait for the timer to expire, and you still need to find a buyer. Buying cartel packs is even worse: you don't know what you're gonna get and might have to waste a lot of cartel coins to get anything valuable. And then again it's the timer, and finding a buyer. 

 

If people could buy credits directly, there would be no reason to go for credit sellers. Risking one's account would just not be worth it anymore.

[Balameb]

5 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

 

Unless you are buying a specific item and not a cartel pack, it's not guaranteed in-game credits. Even if you buy something you know you can sell for certain amount of credits, you'll still have to wait for the timer to expire, and you still need to find a buyer. Buying cartel packs is even worse: you don't know what you're gonna get and might have to waste a lot of cartel coins to get anything valuable. And then again it's the timer, and finding a buyer. 

 

If people could buy credits directly, there would be no reason to go for credit sellers. Risking one's account would just not be worth it anymore.

Buying packs to open and sell items is not what i said. That only works doing in bulk (hypercrates), and still is unrealiable and requires a ton of time.

But you can buy the pack, wait the timer, publish pack on GTN. From the prices i saw on 2 servers, buying from sellers is currently, depending on server, from 1/3 to almost twice as expensive than purchasing the CCs legaly.

 

A problem with selling credits directly is that it would alter the ecosystem. As it is now, those that do not spend beyond their sub can get their cosmetics by spending more time earning more credits and buying on GTN. If the initial sellers (not resellers) can get their credits DIRECTLY, then there would be a lot less CM stuff on GTN and a lot of angry people that would be forced to spend extra u$s for cosmetics. If something like that happens, what would those that craft to earn credits and afford shinies do? leave or craft less because extra credits would not have much use once geared.

What some other games do to avoid that issue and keep the non spenders is have an open exchange. It means that players purchase the premium currency that other players bought with real money. In this scenario, while is still faster than current one, is indirect and prices fluctuate with supply and demand.

On top of that, a system like that do not keep sellers away. Lost Ark is a prime example of how allowing premium currency/gold exchange and even not permiting any form of direct p2p transaction (everything happens in market) RTM is still the king.

 

[krackcommando]

On 5/9/2023 at 6:14 PM, JamieKirby said:

I would back this, IF the players are realistic in their prices, nothing ticks me off more than players that charge 50% more than what it costs to get the materials...it is totally taking the Pee.

just saw this and had a bit of a laugh thinking about my days running a small business. 50% markup is the industry standard for any and all small to medium sized (expense) items. if you're not getting your products at half of what you're selling them for, your business is in trouble.

[Skummy]

Instead of fixing it in 4.0 when all these people abused the companion gift bug to exchange credits. Nah punish new players 5 years later, Classic 😅 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Skummy

[fabsus]

btw.

price for sharing stims, adrenals and medpacks got increased with the latest patch.
it's now: 2.230.000 credits each from 2.219.999 credits.

thanks for fixing the bug.

Edited July 11, 2023 by fabsus

[DawnAskham]

5 hours ago, fabsus said:

btw.

price for sharing stims, adrenals and medpacks got increased with the latest patch.
it's now: 2.230.000 credits each from 2.219.999 credits.

thanks for fixing the bug.

Charging transaction fees for exchanging items between players without credits involved is just stupid.

Using a stale fee based on some random calculated value based on either Bioware's own guess or some average selling price across all servers last seen months ago is just insanity.

The GTN limit should have been increased along with transaction fees applied to any exchange of credits between players, and then nothing else other than basic game management would be needed (such as prevent exploits, ban exploiters / bots, identify and ban RMT related accounts, manage credit inflows appropriately). 

 

[TahliahCOH]

On 7/5/2023 at 9:02 PM, Nenluen said:

New(ish) player here, 28 Trooper.  While playing with my partner (23 Scoundrel), I went to trade her a level 24 pistol I had crafted and was rather shocked to see that the game was asking that I fork over 27,000 credits to make the transfer.

This was one of the only things that crafting armors and weapons was good for: giving them away to people who were just starting out. Between leveling so fast and now not even being able to give away stuff we make on our own, the entire crafting thing is not only useless (except for biochem and artifice .... and for augments when you get to endgame) but a complete buzzkill. It's FUN to craft stuff for our friends, for guildies, for new players, for strangers we see asking about gear in chat.  Taxing trades on armor, weapons, mods, implants, crystals, etc. is just counterproductive. We can't  craft anything truly useful (again, except with biochem and artifice--and aug skills later on), so why suck the last bit out of joy left to crafters . . . giving away items we made for free.

I can (barely) see keeping a tax on 300 gold augments (because they are expensive for a reason; they are a pia to make), but anything else just seems like a punishment to kind and generous players who are genuinely trying to help out new players and make their game more fun.

Edited July 11, 2023 by TahliahCOH