I'm now going to AFK in PvP matches when...

[remylion]

When it is only 1 maybe 2 other people on my team trying to play objectives and the rest of the team consists of premades who only care about farming kills.

I'm no longer going to call out attacks or bother fighting; it's not worth the headache.

That's fine Bioware, I get it. We are suppose to AFK when the team is only there for a TDM match.

Edited April 3, 2023 by remylion

[meddani]

the amount of bra!ndead players i encountered since season 2 gives me a headache, once i get the cheevos i'm done with pvp until season 3 because this is barely tolerable...

[AwesomeTacoCat]

You know, if everyone else is death matching you can usually just win by doing objs yourself. Play as a tank and just do objs all day. Now, if you run into premades doing objectives you’re probably screwed but that’s another topic…

[DougTheNoob]

You can do both dps and help with the obj. Ofc dont expect me to guard a node cos then my team will lose a good amount of dps,tho I help caping and everything. But u going afk wont change much.Theres a lot of ppl doing the same thing since bioware had the brilliant idea ( one of many) to make pve players play pvp when they clearly dont enjoy it for the sake of it,but want the rewards. Dont get me wrong, everyone is welcome in pvp, but there are tons of ppl that dont want to play this game mode and are being forced to, which is bad for em and bad for the actual pvpers who need to carry a big amount of "bra1ndead"(which are just pvers with no clue what to do) ppl every match .

About the deathmatch premades in wz..well, most of em are bad regstars that wont play arena for nothing cos then they'll have to face better players eventually. I think it can be a problem for solo players and newcomers,yes,but bioware clearly dont give a F. Just do whatever u want,and lets hope the devs actually start to listen to our feedbacks and work on make this game mode better for a change.

Edited April 3, 2023 by DougTheNoob

[krackcommando]

play arenas. ppl actually try to win those.

I feel your pain in WZs. but it's been like that for 5-6 years. I don't think it's even possible to change. maybe bring back ranked WZs. that might have a chance. you're trying to swim upstream on this one though.

best case scenario: BW removes deserter debuff so you can just leave. but that isn't happening. so...whatever. get mad about it or don't I guess.

[VegaMist]

Short story from a recent PVP WZ match. The match starts and it feels we are being overpowered. Two people yell some nonsense in the chat and rage-quit, Two other players join and it levels the match. We end up closely winning. I bet the rest of the team was as happy as I was that those two bozos deserted early enough for us to turn the game around.

I understand why the deserter debuff is there, but, in it's current state, it seems to be doing more harm than good.

[DeannaVoyager]

5 hours ago, VegaMist said:

Short story from a recent PVP WZ match. The match starts and it feels we are being overpowered. Two people yell some nonsense in the chat and rage-quit, Two other players join and it levels the match. We end up closely winning. I bet the rest of the team was as happy as I was that those two bozos deserted early enough for us to turn the game around.

I understand why the deserter debuff is there, but, in it's current state, it seems to be doing more harm than good.

 

Not just that. But if you end up in a group where someone gets verbally abusive, the deserter debuff forces people to take the abuse, instead of leave and queue again. It really shouldn't be like that. People should be allowed to leave when they are being abused by other players. 

[krackcommando]

29 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

 

Not just that. But if you end up in a group where someone gets verbally abusive, the deserter debuff forces people to take the abuse, instead of leave and queue again. It really shouldn't be like that. People should be allowed to leave when they are being abused by other players. 

ppl should be able to leave whenever they want. really. it's beyond comprehension that BW's official line is desertion ruins the experience for "everyone else" when literally half the op is ignoring the win conditions of the map and thus not only ruining the experience for "everyone else," but purposely ignoring the object of the match. 

it's not like I'm getting rolled or oppressed on SF. the whining and crying about premades on SF is, frankly, laughable. they aren't bad at all. I can easily complete three 12x weeklies in a week on 3 different toons (if I care to). but it's just loathsome to land in a vandin where I know nobody is going to try. and on quesh, even I don't want to try. and then you get to the node capture maps, and sure, you can win behind a bunch of DMers, but that's not fun. it's like I sign-up to play flag football and half the ppl are playing laser tag.

on the other hand, I'm really enjoying arenas. you win. you lose. do it again. it's soooo much smoother than this WZ crap. WZs are just a total mess, imo.

[remylion]

18 hours ago, krackcommando said:

ppl should be able to leave whenever they want. really. it's beyond comprehension that BW's official line is desertion ruins the experience for "everyone else" when literally half the op is ignoring the win conditions of the map and thus not only ruining the experience for "everyone else," but purposely ignoring the object of the match. 

it's not like I'm getting rolled or oppressed on SF. the whining and crying about premades on SF is, frankly, laughable. they aren't bad at all. I can easily complete three 12x weeklies in a week on 3 different toons (if I care to). but it's just loathsome to land in a vandin where I know nobody is going to try. and on quesh, even I don't want to try. and then you get to the node capture maps, and sure, you can win behind a bunch of DMers, but that's not fun. it's like I sign-up to play flag football and half the ppl are playing laser tag.

on the other hand, I'm really enjoying arenas. you win. you lose. do it again. it's soooo much smoother than this WZ crap. WZs are just a total mess, imo.

Lets say there is no consequence for abandoning a game and you can queue up immediately after you leave.

This is what happens.

Half the team abandons the game the moment they feel they won't win. They queue up again and if their next team seems to be losing they abandon and queue up again. This is repeated infinitely.

What happens to the team that 3-4 players abandon? That team gets further behind in points while it is trying to find replacements. It takes a while for replacement players to load in and see what is going on. A few of the replacements immediately abandon the game since that team is already behind and short on players. The team that was falling behind and keeps losing players is guaranteed to lose because they can not retain players or catch up. This is repeated infinitely.

I have seen this happen in other MMOs, no one likes to stay in a losing game and no one likes to join a losing game.

Edited April 5, 2023 by remylion

[VegaMist]

7 hours ago, remylion said:

Lets say there is no consequence for abandoning a game and you can queue up immediately after you leave.

This is what happens.

Half the team abandons the game the moment they feel they won't win. They queue up again and if their next team seems to be losing they abandon and queue up again. This is repeated infinitely.

What happens to the team that 3-4 players abandon? That team gets further behind in points while it is trying to find replacements. It takes a while for replacement players to load in and see what is going on. A few of the replacements immediately abandon the game since that team is already behind and short on players. The team that was falling behind and keeps losing players is guaranteed to lose because they can not retain players or catch up. This is repeated infinitely.

I have seen this happen in other MMOs, no one likes to stay in a losing game and no one likes to join a losing game.

How about if the penalty kicked-in after second or third desertion within, let's say, 3 hours? That would avoid punishing vast majority of players who disconnected or left with a valid reason, and prevent situations like you described above.

Edited April 5, 2023 by VegaMist
Typo

[DeannaVoyager]

7 hours ago, remylion said:

Lets say there is no consequence for abandoning a game and you can queue up immediately after you leave.

This is what happens.

Half the team abandons the game the moment they feel they won't win. They queue up again and if their next team seems to be losing they abandon and queue up again. This is repeated infinitely.

What happens to the team that 3-4 players abandon? That team gets further behind in points while it is trying to find replacements. It takes a while for replacement players to load in and see what is going on. A few of the replacements immediately abandon the game since that team is already behind and short on players. The team that was falling behind and keeps losing players is guaranteed to lose because they can not retain players or catch up. This is repeated infinitely.

I have seen this happen in other MMOs, no one likes to stay in a losing game and no one likes to join a losing game.

 

What also happens:

The team that 3-4 players abandoned will be even further behind in points which means their misery will end sooner rather than later, which is good. 

Whoever joins late for the losing match will also have shorter lost match, so less time wasting time in a lost match, which is good.

The people who abandoned the match will be shuffling the queue a bit because they won't be in sync with the team they abandoned anymore, which is good.

 

I never had a problem joining a losing game myself, because I knew it would be over faster than a full game, so you can't say that "no-one" likes to join a losing game.  A lot of people do, because they know it's going to end soon and they didn't have to suffer through everything. However I do have a problem being forced to stay in a losing match because it means I'm wasting my time. Being forced to stay means I would only play with a stealther so I can at least afk for the rest of the match if it looks like farming. 

 

[remylion]

12 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

 

What also happens:

The team that 3-4 players abandoned will be even further behind in points which means their misery will end sooner rather than later, which is good. 

Whoever joins late for the losing match will also have shorter lost match, so less time wasting time in a lost match, which is good.

The people who abandoned the match will be shuffling the queue a bit because they won't be in sync with the team they abandoned anymore, which is good.

 

I never had a problem joining a losing game myself, because I knew it would be over faster than a full game, so you can't say that "no-one" likes to join a losing game.  A lot of people do, because they know it's going to end soon and they didn't have to suffer through everything. However I do have a problem being forced to stay in a losing match because it means I'm wasting my time. Being forced to stay means I would only play with a stealther so I can at least afk for the rest of the match if it looks like farming. 

 

unless you are working on your 12th losing backfilled game where it has only been 1-2 minutes into the match when you entered.

For me the only fix would be if dailies and weeklies were not about winning and losing but actual participation like it is with "earn 25 medals for Galactic Season".

I've been in a lot of PvP games where I am one of the top medal earners in the whole game but my team still lost because the majority of the team did nothing but chase kill counts.

When you are on a losing team and nothing you can do will improve your reward it's frustrating and I'll just AFK.

Edited April 5, 2023 by remylion

[krackcommando]

12 hours ago, remylion said:

Lets say there is no consequence for abandoning a game and you can queue up immediately after you leave.

This is what happens.

Half the team abandons the game the moment they feel they won't win. They queue up again and if their next team seems to be losing they abandon and queue up again. This is repeated infinitely.

What happens to the team that 3-4 players abandon? That team gets further behind in points while it is trying to find replacements. It takes a while for replacement players to load in and see what is going on. A few of the replacements immediately abandon the game since that team is already behind and short on players. The team that was falling behind and keeps losing players is guaranteed to lose because they can not retain players or catch up. This is repeated infinitely.

I have seen this happen in other MMOs, no one likes to stay in a losing game and no one likes to join a losing game.

so you're saying it's fine for players to subvert the game by completely ignoring the win conditions just to dmg farm or spawn camp the other team. but it's a gross act of misconduct to leave whenever you want?

look man, here's how I see it:

• backfill needs to be a choice. when a queue pops after the match starts, you need to be told that it's a backfill, then choose to take it or not. this just seems like common sense to me. it would be like going into someone's saved operation. the game doesn't just throw you in there. it tells you that you'll be locked to this that or the other stage in the raid. are you sure you really want to do this?
• if enough players leave and not enough backfill, then the game ends early. it's a defacto mercy rule. this is the only feasible way (that I can think of) to deal with large swathes of players ignoring objectives in WZs. I suspect it would also kill off the Vandin and Quesh HB maps. but then it might not, b/c ppl might enjoy just DMing in those. However, they could then do that without having to literally punish the players who want to play the maps the way they are meant to be played.

as for your concern that ppl would leave early, like when a VS door is capped quickly, yeah. that would happen. That used to happen all the time. so what? either you care enough to stick around and try to win or get your 1 match for a loss, or you don't care at all and go about your business ignoring objectives and DMing. don't pretend this is some big thing.

I was in AHG last night where one dude guarding (sniper?) got "stunlocked then erased" and he started calling everyone stupid and idiots for not helping him and not sticking around to defend. the whole match. I finally asked to shut up, and then he starts railing at me (ofc). like...dude. he announces he's not doing any thing the rest of the match and just proceeds to run his proverbial mouth. we played 7v8 from the end of the 1st round onward. let him leave. hell, let me leave so as not to deal with his drivel. who cares? you leave, then you don't even get 1 participation match.

[remylion]

4 hours ago, krackcommando said:

so you're saying it's fine for players to subvert the game by completely ignoring the win conditions just to dmg farm or spawn camp the other team. but it's a gross act of misconduct to leave whenever you want?

look man, here's how I see it:

• backfill needs to be a choice. when a queue pops after the match starts, you need to be told that it's a backfill, then choose to take it or not. this just seems like common sense to me. it would be like going into someone's saved operation. the game doesn't just throw you in there. it tells you that you'll be locked to this that or the other stage in the raid. are you sure you really want to do this?
• if enough players leave and not enough backfill, then the game ends early. it's a defacto mercy rule. this is the only feasible way (that I can think of) to deal with large swathes of players ignoring objectives in WZs. I suspect it would also kill off the Vandin and Quesh HB maps. but then it might not, b/c ppl might enjoy just DMing in those. However, they could then do that without having to literally punish the players who want to play the maps the way they are meant to be played.

as for your concern that ppl would leave early, like when a VS door is capped quickly, yeah. that would happen. That used to happen all the time. so what? either you care enough to stick around and try to win or get your 1 match for a loss, or you don't care at all and go about your business ignoring objectives and DMing. don't pretend this is some big thing.

I was in AHG last night where one dude guarding (sniper?) got "stunlocked then erased" and he started calling everyone stupid and idiots for not helping him and not sticking around to defend. the whole match. I finally asked to shut up, and then he starts railing at me (ofc). like...dude. he announces he's not doing any thing the rest of the match and just proceeds to run his proverbial mouth. we played 7v8 from the end of the 1st round onward. let him leave. hell, let me leave so as not to deal with his drivel. who cares? you leave, then you don't even get 1 participation match.

no, I hate it when premades are on my team and intentionally spawn farm or ignore objectives. But I have seen what you suggest in other online games and it is just as bad. You ether get lucky and end up on a winning team from the start or more than likely you end up as backfill for a game that you have no chance at winning and people are still spawn camping and ignoring objectives.

Having no consequence for leaving games pretty much ends up with the same situation we have now only you'll end up backfilling a lot of losing games on top of it.

[krackcommando]

1 hour ago, remylion said:

Having no consequence for leaving games pretty much ends up with the same situation we have now only you'll end up backfilling a lot of losing games on top of it.

SWTOR had no consequences, and a ignorant ppl came on the forums and whined about it. now those same ignorant ppl are whining about being damage farmed and AFKers. the deserter debuff does nothing more than "force" the same 16 players to remain in the match for as long as the match lasts. it does not stop ppl who would otherwise leave from AFKing and talking sour garbage all match long.

FCS, you can't even leave in spawn before the match when you see a premade of <reign in darkness> on your team who you know are just going to waste your time. what's wrong with leaving before match starts? for that matter, why does anyone have to sit through an entire Quesh match? have you seen one match on that map -- ONE -- in which at least half the ppl weren't DMing at mid?

no mercy rule. no map choice. so yeah, you should definitely be able to leave. iunno man. seems like common sense to me.

[remylion]

8 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

SWTOR had no consequences, and a ignorant ppl came on the forums and whined about it. now those same ignorant ppl are whining about being damage farmed and AFKers. the deserter debuff does nothing more than "force" the same 16 players to remain in the match for as long as the match lasts. it does not stop ppl who would otherwise leave from AFKing and talking sour garbage all match long.

FCS, you can't even leave in spawn before the match when you see a premade of <reign in darkness> on your team who you know are just going to waste your time. what's wrong with leaving before match starts? for that matter, why does anyone have to sit through an entire Quesh match? have you seen one match on that map -- ONE -- in which at least half the ppl weren't DMing at mid?

no mercy rule. no map choice. so yeah, you should definitely be able to leave. iunno man. seems like common sense to me.

That is one of the guilds on Starforge I have issues with. I have seen people in that guild intentionally ignore objectives. throw the hutball to the enemy, utterly refuse to guard or even capture an objective when it is cleared.

Most of the time when I speak of premade guilds refusing to actually play and actively harass people trying to win it is this guild. It is like Reign of Darkness is trying to play Arena rules but afraid of to actually queue up for Arena.

When I see 4-6 of these guild members on my team I AFK immediately.

Edited April 5, 2023 by remylion

[krackcommando]

1 minute ago, remylion said:

That is one of the guilds on Starforge I have issues with. I have seen people in that guild intentionally ignore objectives. throw the hutball to the enemy, utterly refuse to guard or even capture an objective when it is cleared.

Most of the time when I speak of premade guilds refusing to actually play and actively harass people trying to win it is this guild.

which is neither here nor there. they can do w/e they want. my POINT is THEY can do w/e they want, but everyone else gets stuck playing THEIR way? you can't stop them or anyone else from just DMing or holding the ball at mid to force ppl to fight there the full time. but you SHOULD be able to leave and let ppl stay who don't care. eh? eh? eh?

[remylion]

19 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

which is neither here nor there. they can do w/e they want. my POINT is THEY can do w/e they want, but everyone else gets stuck playing THEIR way? you can't stop them or anyone else from just DMing or holding the ball at mid to force ppl to fight there the full time. but you SHOULD be able to leave and let ppl stay who don't care. eh? eh? eh?

Allowing people to leave any game at any point without penalty won't fix win/lose rates or the enjoyment of the game. The next complaint will be "every time the enemy team scores one point half of my team abandons the game making it impossible to win".

The only real option at that point is for everyone to abandon the game and let it time out but that won't happen. Backfill will constantly keep that losing teams game going and they will never catch up because it is a bunch of new people loading into a game that is already lost spending the next 20 seconds trying to figure out what is going on.

Instead of focusing only on Win and Loss for dailies and weeklies, let medal count be the contributing factor for finishing dailies and weeklies like it is with some galactic season missions. Players who play the objectives can still end up on top of the medal leader board on a losing team. They aren't lumped into the same group as the players who refuse to play objectives and intentionally throw games.

The people who throw games won't care because they aren't playing to finish dailies and weeklies, they are only there for kill farming outside of the spawn room. Currently there is no point in even trying when you know your team is going to lose and you will receive the same reward as the people kill farming.

Bioware can't fix how people play but Bioware can reward those who play the objectives more than the people who ruin games by ignoring objectives and farming kills above all else.

BTW why does this game not have a kick option for people who flat out AFK in games? I abuse the lack of a kick option but why doesn't this game have one?

Edited April 5, 2023 by remylion

[krackcommando]

14 minutes ago, remylion said:

Allowing people to leave any game at any point without penalty won't fix win/lose rates or the enjoyment of the game. The next complaint will be "every time the enemy team scores one point half of my team abandons the game making it impossible to win".

that's not how it works. that's not how it worked when you could leave. that's how whiners characterized it when they came running to complain about it on the forum. that's the same crap ppl are doing with "premades." like every match is against an overwhelming premade. omg! no. there's a premade in just about every match that pops. you don't generally notice them until they roll you or ignore objectives and suddenly you come running to the forum to complain that premades are ruining the came.

I look at it like this: I can't make you play my way. You shouldn't be able to make me play your way. with the deserter debuff, you're forcing me to play your way (which happens, ironically, to be not the way the map is designed). thank goodness for arenas.

[remylion]

29 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

that's not how it works. that's not how it worked when you could leave. that's how whiners characterized it when they came running to complain about it on the forum. that's the same crap ppl are doing with "premades." like every match is against an overwhelming premade. omg! no. there's a premade in just about every match that pops. you don't generally notice them until they roll you or ignore objectives and suddenly you come running to the forum to complain that premades are ruining the came.

I look at it like this: I can't make you play my way. You shouldn't be able to make me play your way. with the deserter debuff, you're forcing me to play your way (which happens, ironically, to be not the way the map is designed). thank goodness for arenas.

People like me AFK the instant they see certain guilds who only farm kills and intentionally throw games. Others AFK the instant they get into a game because they are aren't interested in PvP and are only there to finish Galactic Season goals or PvP goals. Others yet AFK the instant they think their team can't win even if their team is trying. I have seen people get angry and AFK because too many people went to capture a pylon.

What do you think those people, including me, will do if there is zero penalty for abandoning games? What do you think will happen to the team that constantly loses 2-4 of it's team every few minutes.

Edited April 5, 2023 by remylion

[krackcommando]

55 minutes ago, remylion said:

What do you think those people, including me, will do if there is zero penalty for abandoning games? What do you think will happen to the team that constantly loses 2-4 of it's team every few minutes.

that's my point, bruh. allowing ppl to leave might at least bring in someone who will actually play.

[remylion]

14 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

that's my point, bruh. allowing ppl to leave might at least bring in someone who will actually play.

and half way through the game when losing team needs to 3 cap, how is a person who wants to play going to make up for the continuous loss of team mates and capture all 3 turrets to win against a team that had held 2-3 turrets the game so far?

There is a certain point in all PvP games where the only chance at winning is if the enemy team all loses connection at the same time. At that point you just abandon the game and requeue or you stay in the game and AFK if the loss is only a couple minutes away.

Edited April 5, 2023 by remylion

[krackcommando]

Just now, remylion said:

and half way through the game when losing team needs to 3 cap, how is a person who wants to play going to make up for the continuous loss of team mates and capture all 3 turrets to win against a team that had held 2-3 turrets the whole game?

There is a certain point in all PvP games where the only chance at winning is if the enemy team all loses connection at the same time. Which isn't far off when the losing team has a constant stream of people abandoning a game no one can win.

half the team leaves, they're conceding. game over. your guy who wants to stick around can collect his participation match credit and move on. majority rules. life's tough. ok bai

[remylion]

Just now, krackcommando said:

half the team leaves, they're conceding. game over. your guy who wants to stick around can collect his participation match credit and move on. majority rules. life's tough. ok bai

and the people who backfill and are pissed all they ever get are backfill losing games where no matter what they do they can't make a difference?

[krackcommando]

they leave too. happens quick. good talk