Please Run a Player Survey about Premades vs Solo

[uppen]

5 minutes ago, black_pyros said:

You got it completely backwards. Premades of coordianted players lift the quality of games. Soloers, loners and hermits refusing to coordinate with others lowers it. Until you understand this, you will always suffer in a team-based gamemode designed to be won by better coordination.

Nope. You have it wrong. Because the team of coordinated players is AGAINST the soloers. It is only better if both teams are coordinated in a premade only queue. Premades should never be put against solo players because it stacks the deck. It bypasses matchmaking. It creates an unfair advantage. Both teams should have an even split of both the good and bad players. FAIR games raise the quality of play.

[black_pyros]

3 minutes ago, uppen said:

It is not healthy because it allows the 4 good players to stack the deck, bypassing the matchmaking system, so they are all always on the same team. That is not fair, nor fun, for everyone else. It will make no difference to the outcome if those 3 bad players team up because the 4 good players will never want to group with them. No-one wants to play with bad players on their team, therefore the bad, and good, players should be split evenly across both teams. Only matchmaking solo players can achieve this. Matchmaking can not achieve a fair split when the good players are grouped together.

PvP is never fair, better skill and better coordination will always win, always. Either you change your mindset from a shirker to a PvPer, start to coordinate, win more games and have a better experience and more fun or you don't and continue to suffer. The choice is yours. Choose wisely. Cheers

[black_pyros]

6 minutes ago, uppen said:

Nope. You have it wrong.

Yup, you got me. I have it wrong. I am wrong because the uncoordinated soloers always win vs coordinated premades and they never blame these premades - oh wait....🤷‍♂️

[uppen]

2 minutes ago, black_pyros said:

PvP is never fair, better skill and better coordination will always win, always. Either you change your mindset from a shirker to a PvPer, start to coordinate, win more games and have a better experience and more fun or you don't and continue to suffer. The choice is yours. Choose wisely. Cheers

Ofc pvp is not 100% fair. But 2 good and 2 bad plavers vs 2 good and 2 bad, is much fairer than 4 good vs the 4 bad. Premades allow players to make the game as unfair as possible in spite of the systems in place to try to make more balanced teams. The minset of a true pvper is always in favour of fairly balanced teams, not lopsided trash games.

[black_pyros]

17 minutes ago, uppen said:

Ofc pvp is not 100% fair. But 2 good and 2 bad plavers vs 2 good and 2 bad, is much fairer than 4 good vs the 4 bad. Premades allow players to make the game as unfair as possible in spite of the systems in place to try to make more balanced teams. The minset of a true pvper is always in favour of fairly balanced teams, not lopsided trash games.

Mindset of a competitive player is set to win. Every athlete competes others to win, no one is going to carry a barbell just to make games more fair. You are a dreamer living in a dream world trying to change the competitive environment to suits your dreams. Good luck with that. Since this debate is leading nowhere, I am bailing for now. Cheers and gl.

Edited February 23, 2023 by black_pyros

[uppen]

Just now, black_pyros said:

Mindset of a competitive player is set to win. Every athlete competes others to win, no one is going to carry a barbell just to make games more fair. You are a dreamer living in a dream world trying to change the competitive environment to suits your dreams. Good luck with that. Since this debate is leading nowhere, I am baling for now. Cheers and gl.

Ofc playing to win is the whole point. But Pro athletes don't group up against a bunch of couch potatoes.

The only way to have 2 coordinated teams against each other is with a premade only queue.

Why are you arguing in favour of premades against solos, in unbalanced and unfair games? What do you have to gain from it? What do you have to lose from a solo only queue? Surely if you are playing in a premade you would rather have a premade only queue so you get better games? 

Yes, this debate is leading nowhere because you are narrow minded. You don't want to lose the huge advantage premading against solo players gives you. This scares you.

 

[black_pyros]

8 minutes ago, uppen said:

Why are you arguing in favour of premades against solos, in unbalanced and unfair games? What do you have to gain from it? What do you have to lose from a solo only queue?

I am not arguing to premades be put against solos. If you have read my posts consistently, you would notice I am all for placing premades against premades. Just not in separate queue, as that would kill the premades in such a low population. If anyone doubts this, just look how dead TR was. So next time, read my posts more carefully and don't put words in my mouth. Thank you.

Edited February 23, 2023 by black_pyros

[uppen]

1 minute ago, black_pyros said:

I am not arguing to premades be put against solos. If you have read my posts consistently, you would notice I am all for placing premades against premades. Just not in separate queue, as that would kill the premades in such a low population. If anyone doubts this, just look how TR was dead. So next time, read my posts more carefully and don't put words in my mouth. Thank you.

Premades in the same queue as solo players puts premades against solo players. So yes that's exactly what you are arguing for. The premade queue would only die if premades don't want to play against other premades, which they don't. 

[black_pyros]

1 minute ago, uppen said:

Premades in the same queue as solo players puts premades against solo players.

Technically - yes. My point is that premade of 3 with a soloer against equally skilled premade of 3 with a soloer in a 4vs4 arena; or premade of 7 with a soloer against equally skilled premade of 7 with a soloer in an 8vs8 wz or different combinations of equally skilled players actually lead to better quality of games and better experience for everyone, including the soloers that actualy can learn more by interacting with coordinated teams.

Using your solution of removing premades from the queue, you are actually dooming the premades to suffer in a dead queue, and the soloers to "enjoy" lower quality matches. No one wins. In my example, if the matchmaker is set up properly, everyone wins (well not the match, of course).

Seriously, I am tired of explaining this over and over to you and the others. I am out. You will not read what I wrote again anyway and continue to put words in my mouth, I never said.

[uppen]

8 minutes ago, black_pyros said:

Technically - yes. My point is that premade of 3 with a soloer against equally skilled premade of 3 with a soloer in a 4vs4 arena; or premade of 7 with a soloer against equally skilled premade of 7 with a soloer in an 8vs8 wz or different combinations of equally skilled players actually lead to better quality of games and better experience for everyone, including the soloers that actualy can learn more by interacting with coordinated teams.

Using your solution of removing premades from the queue, you are actually dooming the premades to suffer in a dead queue, and the soloers to "enjoy" lower quality matches. No one wins. In my example, if the matchmaker is set up properly, everyone wins (well not the match, of course).

Seriously, I am tired of explaining this over and over to you and the others. I am out. You will not read what I wrote again anyway and continue to put words in my mouth, I never said.

There is nothing wrong with a match of 7 vs 7, or 6 vs (4+2), or 3 vs 3 etc. If there are 2 equal sized premades, or sets of premades, in the queue, then a premade only queue wouldn't be dead, would it. 

As it stands the vast majority of the time when one team has a premade, the other team doesn't. So the only reason to form a premade is to bypass matchmaking to gain an unfair advantage.

A solo only queue is the only solution to this issue.

[ZUHFB]

1 hour ago, Samcuu said:

I'm talking about season 8 and prior

Ah yes! The glorious days of rep/imp separation where people Q-Synced on rep side to have the situation we have in arenas now, premades vs. randoms. It forced all pubs into one team and got MULTIPLE PvErs I know a top3 by sniping rep side when cerasi, ez'mode etc were playing on those sides. Sounds great! I wonder why it got removed, oh I know, because it wasn't fun and it is the exact same system as we have now. 

[Exly]

2 hours ago, black_pyros said:

Yes, if we had a population big enough to support such a queue. And Voila! We are back at the population issue. That is the core issue, not the poor premades trying to uplift the level of play, increasing the quality of matches.

I have a solution to the population issue. 

Stop allowing premades to queue with solo players, and then more people will want to pvp because that would make pvp more enjoyable.

[ZUHFB]

13 minutes ago, Exly said:

Stop allowing premades to queue with solo players, and then more people will want to pvp because that would make pvp more enjoyable.

this 100% 

the only ones disliking this are the players who now would start losing because they can't premade anymore, how unfortunate!

[Samcuu]

44 minutes ago, ZUHFB said:

Ah yes! The glorious days of rep/imp separation where people Q-Synced on rep side to have the situation we have in arenas now, premades vs. randoms. It forced all pubs into one team and got MULTIPLE PvErs I know a top3 by sniping rep side when cerasi, ez'mode etc were playing on those sides. Sounds great! I wonder why it got removed, oh I know, because it wasn't fun and it is the exact same system as we have now. 

Yeah ur talking about solo ranked. I never played solo ranked then I always thought it was trash since season two when I saw ppl doing that. There were ways to cheese the system. I'm talking group ranked. You brought out ways ppl cheated the system and it's always been an issue thus it doesn't exist in any form of the game anymore. 

[ZUHFB]

10 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

There is no logical connection to the two things you mention.

nevermind that there is: why would that matter, if he/she would have more fun without premades then who are you to say that he/she is wrong, it's just what he/she wants

12 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

As we clearly see, the only thing that gets players into PvP is rewards. None of the people in here complaining about this topic, played half a year ago before the rewards.

I have all rewards. At least twice. So this is objectively not true. I PvP because its fun, premades ruin that fun so I want it to be changed. I am not having fun against a premade, nothing more, nothing less.

13 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

Wait... i have to correct myself. Half of the people in here. The other half played PvP before, but never had a such demanding issue with premades.

Because I was able to queue solo ranked, you know, the ranked gamemode that actually did pop? I did it because I couldn't be against a premade. Being against a premade is just a waste of time and nothing more.

15 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

But right now, it is a problem. Now PvP is filled with people that actually can PvP, because they removed Ranked.

ROFL WHAT. All the ranked players QUIT, WHO, WHO tell me WHO can PvP, please! Vlad? Sure, but he is usually in premades with Kyu etc. these people can play, but they might as well not be good it wouldn't change a thing. 

16 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

And of course a few indiviudals creep up out of the dark, because they didn't get the message. Because the game changed

In our opinion for the worst, you just have no ability to say we're wrong, it's not how that works. If we feel like it's bad we can obviously voice our concerns. 

[ZUHFB]

3 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Yeah ur talking about solo ranked. I never played solo ranked then I always thought it was trash since season two when I saw ppl doing that. There were ways to cheese the system. I'm talking group ranked. You brought out ways ppl cheated the system and it's always been an issue thus it doesn't exist in any form of the game anymore. 

Ah true, I forgot about teamranked completely, the "legit" gamemode. Only truly skilled players are able to win, like the two top3 sins from SF who won 160 games against mat farmers, or people from Better Now who bought bot accounts, wintraded against those accounts, got banned and elo went to 1, they just wintraded back up and got their rewards (they actually got banned during a tyth 16man nim, it was very funny). Nevermind mat farmers on tulak sending messages like "lf 2m wintrade for mats", nevermind one my (ex, and I wasn't participating) raid teams organizing wintrading for augments. Nevermind that most accounts from teamranked players are now owned by some cringe dude on tulak, Jindso's account for example. Nevermind Quanny still sending death threats to Shekshas over games that happened in S9 or whatever (he can't since shek is gone), but trust me he would. Nevermind Lyalas wintrading service. 

clearly teamranked had no issues at all, it was a perfect gamemode! /s

you want to know how teamranked truly worked in s14/s13? Team quanny and team shalom queueing against each other for wins (both teams claim they never lost any game btw) and then both teams queueing against mat farmers for rating, then all they have to do is sit in queue all day on alts farming more golds, how would anybody ever even content their top3 character? They can't. Teamranked was a garbage gamemode, solo ranked was a legit good gamemode towards the end, it had issues of course - no question with that. But it's not even in the same DIMENSION as team ranked in regards to having issues. 

[Exly]

50 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

There is no logical connection to the two things you mention.

As we clearly see, the only thing that gets players into PvP is rewards. None of the people in here complaining about this topic, played half a year ago before the rewards.

Just because you can't see the logical connection, that doesn't mean that there is none.

I did a lot more pvp for fun and conquest before the changes in 7.2. 

The truth is that the season rewards aren't that good, and I really don't care about them.  I might work to get them if they were better, but the current rewards aren't that important to me.

[Samcuu]

42 minutes ago, ZUHFB said:

Ah true, I forgot about teamranked completely, the "legit" gamemode. Only truly skilled players are able to win, like the two top3 sins from SF who won 160 games against mat farmers, or people from Better Now who bought bot accounts, wintraded against those accounts, got banned and elo went to 1, they just wintraded back up and got their rewards (they actually got banned during a tyth 16man nim, it was very funny). Nevermind mat farmers on tulak sending messages like "lf 2m wintrade for mats", nevermind one my (ex, and I wasn't participating) raid teams organizing wintrading for augments. Nevermind that most accounts from teamranked players are now owned by some cringe dude on tulak, Jindso's account for example. Nevermind Quanny still sending death threats to Shekshas over games that happened in S9 or whatever (he can't since shek is gone), but trust me he would. Nevermind Lyalas wintrading service. 

clearly teamranked had no issues at all, it was a perfect gamemode! /s

you want to know how teamranked truly worked in s14/s13? Team quanny and team shalom queueing against each other for wins (both teams claim they never lost any game btw) and then both teams queueing against mat farmers for rating, then all they have to do is sit in queue all day on alts farming more golds, how would anybody ever even content their top3 character? They can't. Teamranked was a garbage gamemode, solo ranked was a legit good gamemode towards the end, it had issues of course - no question with that. But it's not even in the same DIMENSION as team ranked in regards to having issues. 

Cool story bro lol and if you read my post I clearly said ppl were cheating in both modes and me being cheated out of gold by exploiters is what lead me to quit ranked all together in season 8. Glad u got that off ur chest tho 😂😂 

[Illedros]

18 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

 

Nobody had any complains in the past year about this. Everybody accepted the fact, that premades are allowed.

Umm no, do a search in the pvp forum for the word 'premade' and you'll see 400 pages of comments/posts going back to 2016.

 

23 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

 

Now BioWare gave incentives to queue together by simply giving out more points to groups. And everybody is adapting. Everybody is queuing as a group, gain free points along the way. As intended by BioWare.

Yeah I dunno about this, many of the premades I come across don't even care to win. 4-6 of them will zerg rush a pylon and won't even bother to cap it before running to the enemy spawn point to farm kills. I don't think they care about free points. (And who really needs free points? I got to level 25 easy queuing solo, really wasn't that hard.) They clearly only care about farming numbers. Do you really think the main/only reason premades are forming is because bioware will give you bonus points? Really? I mean really really? When you message your guildmates to see if anyone wants to group up for pvp you're mainly doing this because you need points to get to (lol) level 25? Wow.  

Is this really what bioware intended? Brave of you to assume you know their intentions, most likely what they intend is as fast queue pops as they can with as many people. As stated by Musco when he talked about the PVP changes in 7.2 and why they were making pvp f2p and removing ranked.

And everybody is definitely NOT queuing as a group. Most people still seem to be solo. Your attempts to make out like we who disagree with you here are a minority who have only recently expressed a dislike for premades in the same queue as solos isn't supported by evidence. 

[TrixxieTriss]

7 hours ago, black_pyros said:

I am not saying SR was totally dead, but it certainly was compared to like first 3 seasons or so. I am just saying that PvP population in general dropped so low, they had to combine regs population with the ranked one to be able to continue to deliver some fast pops for PvP players (and yeah it came in a convenient time, so they didn't have to deal with the combat styles vs. leaderboards issue).

And yes, TR was dead because - as someone else already pointed out - nobody wants to play against better players, not the premades. Premades don't automatically equal to better players and soloers don't automatically equal to worse players - skill is the deciding factor (after you deal with other issues like meta specs, gearing, etc). With a healthy population and a proper Elo based matchmaker, even TR could ensure that premades of only similar skill level face each other and provide a healthy, fun and competitive environment.

If we follow your logic of why BioWare removed SR & TR, then they would have just removed premades altogether to fix the population numbers in the queue & just made the queues solo. That way more people wouldn’t be leaving the game because of the solo vs premade issue. 

Im not the only one that can see your arguments jump all over the place to fit your reasoning. That’s not logic. If someone points out how your logic is flawed, you do a 180 turn & try a different tact. Please don’t think people reading this thread can’t see it, because they can, that includes BioWare. You aren’t fooling anyone. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

9 hours ago, black_pyros said:

Yes, if we had a population big enough to support such a queue. And Voila! We are back at the population issue. That is the core issue, not the poor premades trying to uplift the level of play, increasing the quality of matches.

Explain how premades uplift game play against solo players and therefore make more people want to join the queue against them?

How about I instead say once again that premades turn the experience into a soul crushing experience for solo players so much so, that they stop queuing? Because that happens more often than people saying “yay, there’s a top tier premade on the other team, it will improve our skills to be stomped by them”. I can tell you that’s not fun for solo players, even good ones. It certainly doesn’t improve the quality of matches for them. 

At the end of the day, Premades are having a negative affect on the amount of people queuing. You can argue all you want about improving player skills. But how many players skills are you improving if premades are driving players from the queue 🤷🏻‍♀️. 

If you’re so worried that the population is shrinking, why would you continue to support a system that is driving people from pvp & probably the game? This is where your reasoning fails. Because if you really cared about pop times that much, you’d actually be advocating that premades be entirely removed. 

Logically the best way to improve player numbers in pvp is to move to solo only queues. But then you get people who cry foul because they want to play with friends. I get that, which is why I suggested splitting the queues like I did.

Sure, at first the premade queue & possibly the solo queue might feel a little longer for pops. But no more than if the matchmaking worked the way BioWare said it’s supposed to. 

Over time, more people would try pvp & come back to the game if they saw the queues split.  No I don’t have numbers on this. The same as you don’t have numbers on your assumptions. Which is why I’m asking BioWare to run a survey first to ask the players what they want 😉

Edited February 24, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

22 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

See... right this here is the reason why we don't need a survey on this matter. Because people can't read and understand simple text.

I wrote "nobody had complains in the past year"... "year" singular... and he comes up with 400 pages from all the way back from 2016. The last year was 2022.

On top of that, he quoted out of context. As earlier said in my post, nobody from the people in this thread here, had any complains in the last year before rewards were introduced. Their complains are directly connected to the start of PvP Seasons.

And lastly... the previous complains were always about premades doing their number farming thing. Now they are about premades winning.

The previous complains are directly the opposite of what people are complaining about now.

2016 till now, people wanted premades to stop number farming and start playing objectives, start winning. Those people got what they wanted. Premades are now playing objectives, are now winning.

Your 400 pages have absolutely NOTHING in common in terms of content with this thread.

"but premades... premades... duh... it's stands there... it's the same... duh... i typed premades... this premades results... 400 pages... duh".

 

I can tell you the reason no one complained in the last year. Because 7.2 didn’t land till December. BioWare didn’t add 6-8 man premades until then. At the same time, most of the ranked community was still playing solo ranked instead of regs. And everyone basically gave up arguing that 2-4 man premades ruined regs because they could see BioWare had stopped caring about pvp. 
I can also state the reason I wasn’t complaining is I simply wasnt playing the game last year. I’d had enough of BioWares poor development choices. I came back thinking they’d fix the matchmaking in 7.2. But sadly, they just made it worse. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Illedros]

1 hour ago, SoontirMorillo said:

See... right this here is the reason why we don't need a survey on this matter. Because people can't read and understand simple text.

I wrote "nobody had complains in the past year"... "year" singular... and he comes up with 400 pages from all the way back from 2016. The last year was 2022.

 

Just a few from 2022:

Premades ruin the game but - Page 3 - PvP - SWTOR | Forums

Suggestion: dealing with damage farmers - Page 2 - PvP - SWTOR | Forums

Do you hate premades? Feeling is mutual. - Page 2 - PvP - SWTOR | Forums

There are plenty of others from 2022 that don't start out specifically discussing premades but the conversation brings them up as a contributing factor. Here's a few:

I've never seen a pvp mode more unbalanced (Rant) - PvP - SWTOR | Forums

This is going to take for ever to get gear - Page 2 - PvP - SWTOR | Forums

This is why we hate PvP - Page 4 - PvP - SWTOR | Forums

BuT nOBoDy hAd cOMplainS iN THe pAsT yEAr - epic fail

 

1 hour ago, SoontirMorillo said:

 

On top of that, he quoted out of context. As earlier said in my post, nobody from the people in this thread here, had any complains in the last year before rewards were introduced. Their complains are directly connected to the start of PvP Seasons.

What? No! there are plenty of people apart from the people here who have commented on this in the past year before the rewards were introduced. Read the names. Seriously? 

beCAuSe peOPlE cAn'T ReAd aNd unDeRStAnD sIMplE teXT - oh the irony

1 hour ago, SoontirMorillo said:

 

And lastly... the previous complains were always about premades doing their number farming thing. Now they are about premades winning.

The previous complains are directly the opposite of what people are complaining about now.

 

Actually it was both. Because before you could only get the weekly and daily completed (which was needed for gear) if you won and premades often made it harder for solo players to do this. Remember those day? Oh wait, probably not because you were probably in a premade, no doubt telling solo pugs to 'git gud' while on your fotm dps with your pocket healer protecting you.

BuT PRemadEs...aRe gOOd, I cAN't REad PrOPerLy, I wANt mY poCKeT hEAlEr, 400 pAGeS iS sCAry

1 hour ago, SoontirMorillo said:

 

A decade people complained about number farming premades. And they want them to play objectives. Now they do. 

No, just No. Some premades may play objectives but a lot do not. They just damage farm. Because that's all they care about and the rewards aren't worth it.

C'mon admit it...you obviously queue in premades. Feels good to know you guildies are protecting you while you stomp everyone doesn't it? When one of you calls out a target in voice chat and you all burn them down then move on to the next target. Running around in a group of 4-6. Having a pocket healer and/or tank to run to if you need. C'mon just admit it, stop pretending you or the others like you really care about points or rewards. This right here is the real reason you want to keep your premade.  

Edited February 24, 2023 by Illedros

[Sappharan]

On 2/22/2023 at 2:14 PM, Exly said:

As things stand, queue times are prioritized over placing premades in matches with other premades.  So, that reduces the chances that those matches will happen, and increases the chance that there will be more premade vs pug matches.

Hmmm

On 2/22/2023 at 2:14 PM, Exly said:

The assumption is that there are not enough premade teams to support a separate queue.  I think that could be true but, it true, that means that the queues are now currently supported by solo players.

I think I see something...not sure what it is...

On 2/22/2023 at 2:14 PM, Exly said:

On the other hand.  If there are enough premade groups to support a queue, then why not place them in a separate queue?

Someone said earlier in this thread that you can't please everyone, and that's why there should be only one queue.  I say that when trying to decide who to please, maybe you should try to please as many people as possible.

Ah.  There it is. 

It's a sound argument.  We can't have those on these forums. 

[TrixxieTriss]

On 2/23/2023 at 1:16 AM, black_pyros said:

Conveniently, you don't truly care what an actual majority wants. You are only using the term 'majority' to support your needs. Actual majority probably doesn't want to touch PvP with a ten-foot pole and if BW truly listened to your crazy agenda and base the game decisions on a survey about what an actual majority (and not yours dreamed one) wants, they would actually have to remove PvP.

Please stop with the hyperbole. You make these sweeping statements about my personal intent without knowing me or actually fully understanding my position. 

I am trying to suggest something that will benefit the game & the majority of pvpers by providing an alternative that accommodates all pvpers, not just one small portion of the pvp player base, but to also increase the pvp community’s numbers.

If I was only thinking of solo players needs & not all players, I would be arguing for the removal of premades altogether. But that’s not what I’m doing, is it? So you’re hyperbole that I don’t want what the majority of pvpers want is a wrong.

Wether the majority of the game’s  players want to play pvp is another argument altogether for another thread if you want to make it. But that’s not what this threads about & you are taking the discussion off topic. I would ask that you stay on topic. 

BioWare can easily ask some questions to find out what pvp players want with the game. This is something other games do. Especially if there is a contentious issue or the developer cares enough to ask the players what they want.

But BioWare should open up the survey to every player. Because there are many players who don’t pvp & would if things changed. They need an opportunity to be heard too if BioWare intends to build up the pvp community numbers. I would even argue that those players responses are more important than current pvpers because they are the people BioWare are trying entice to pvp. 

That is why BioWare should put the survey on the login screen. They should ask the questions they want answered, including multiple choice questions as to what makes people not want to pvp in the current environment. 

BioWare don’t even need to do one big survey at this stage. They could just do multiple small ones. Then hone in on what players want from there. If it’s successful for pvp, they could follow up by doing similar things with other parts of the game. 

Lastly, let me be crystal clear so everyone knows my position. I only want what’s best for the game & bringing players back to it so that game can be revitalised, not continue to lose players. 
And when I make a suggestion, it’s not just based on my own play style or wishes.

But let’s also get this clear too. This is a thread in the pvp section of the forums, about pvp & pvpers. So I would ask you to stop trying to derail it by going off topic & keep the discussion focussed on pvp & pvp players. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by TrixxieTriss