Please Run a Player Survey about Premades vs Solo

[Toraak]

2 hours ago, Iollaum said:

This seems to be more of a language barrier problem on your side, because nobody is saying anything about preventing people from playing with their friends or queuing with their freinds as a group...🙄

but they are saying to split the queu, and that will increase queu times. When I do PvP which I admit is rare, I'd rather get a pop as fast as possible (and I solo queu). If that means getting my *** kicked because people want to queu with friends, then so be it. At least it'll be a quick match. I can decide at that point to keep queu'ing or go do something else. That is my choice.

[afwhoefuwov]

I hope Bioware do something.  Playing with a premade is fun and also not fun.  Fun because you can destroy people, unfun because 90% dont give a **** about objective, so you lose anyway.  Playing against premade is never fun.  In Civil War and Alderaan, you can coordinate the team and backcap them.  In Huttball, it is a nightmare because they would just camp at your spawn and pass the ball at mid.  

I faced the same premade for so many times that whenever you drop down via Alderaan speeder; if I see 1 name I can already tell who the others will be lmao. At this point, I just take the lockout penalty instead of wasting time getting farmed     

[LD_Little_Dragon]

10 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Making group and solo Q differently wont kill PVP, in fact it will make it more appealing.

 

This, if the numbers are 'too low to have separate queue's', then you need to look into why people like me haven't even bothered doing pvp casually in 7.0.  The number of players pvp'ing won't get any higher by keeping things as they are.

Separating the arena's and warzone queues was something I've wanted for years ... then bioware added the 'queue with up to 8 players in your premade' vs solos.   Pre 7.0 it was already bad enough to get a regular arena pop as 4 pugs vs a 4 man premade.  Warzones were not great against a 4 man premade, but you could work with it. 

I didn't need to do pvp to know that 8 pugs facing 5 to 8 player premades in warzones would be very much not fun to play against.   I play pvp for fun, the fomo of seasons isn't enough to make me queue. 

That combined with the draconian lockouts mean I haven't touched pvp at all.  I have slow load times and zoning in behind a wall like in hypergates often means I get auto-kicked before I can do squat.

I'm a casual pvp player, a scrub, a bad, whatever, but you want pops?  You want more of us in the queues, not less.

[Beyrahl]

12 hours ago, Eastiano said:

just outta curiosity as I can’t find these records, not sure how good 23k dps is for lethality op, but it’s the best I’ve seen in the game since coming back a year ago by some margin, I have seen 20k dps, but also I’m pretty sure I can get much higher still with better uptime and less objective play

Damage isn't quite as good of an indicator as it used to be. As everything can do so much in the right situations. The biggest bottleneck for seeing damage above parsing numbers is due to the enemy team being consistently cleared when you reach it so it cannot be maintained. There are some exceptions of course where you are the only one really doing damage on your team and they're clumping up for you, but generally, any spec can do good and or do damage into that.  
The biggest issue is that damage is just too high and 6.0 doubled our DPS with amazing defenses being introduced including force bound to hide or bandaid it. Now those are gone and the overwhelming amount of DPS we gained and the new DPS options we gained in the last patch push it even further. 
Doing near-top parse in PvP on your spec meant it was good, if you played more AoE-focused you'd surpass it in good games.
That margin was much smaller then, now it's much larger.

I don't quite want to comb through my VODs to find the several matches I had where both teams had two decent healers and DPS would cap out around 60-75k DPS team-wide before the enemy team would be playing constant respawn simulator. With large groups, you can now have a tank and healer with 4 DPS, which 4 DPS can meet this damage thresh hold in good games, in games where there isn't proper support or good players the damage requirement to keep them on respawn is much lower. It creates a toxic situation. I talked about this before in this thread I think even.

[Eastiano]

2 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

Damage isn't quite as good of an indicator as it used to be. As everything can do so much in the right situations. The biggest bottleneck for seeing damage above parsing numbers is due to the enemy team being consistently cleared when you reach it so it cannot be maintained. There are some exceptions of course where you are the only one really doing damage on your team and they're clumping up for you, but generally, any spec can do good and or do damage into that.  
The biggest issue is that damage is just too high and 6.0 doubled our DPS with amazing defenses being introduced including force bound to hide or bandaid it. Now those are gone and the overwhelming amount of DPS we gained and the new DPS options we gained in the last patch push it even further. 
Doing near-top parse in PvP on your spec meant it was good, if you played more AoE-focused you'd surpass it in good games.
That margin was much smaller then, now it's much larger.

I don't quite want to comb through my VODs to find the several matches I had where both teams had two decent healers and DPS would cap out around 60-75k DPS team-wide before the enemy team would be playing constant respawn simulator. With large groups, you can now have a tank and healer with 4 DPS, which 4 DPS can meet this damage thresh hold in good games, in games where there isn't proper support or good players the damage requirement to keep them on respawn is much lower. It creates a toxic situation. I talked about this before in this thread I think even.

I wouldn’t say 65-70k dps is actually doable in a real game, a setup maybe if you get two premades and get them to stack, I’ve seen nerds taking this way too seriously.

I’m just talking about as a casual solo q’r that focuses on objectives and winning primarily and managed to cheese some good numbers against the premade bots just farming numbers and harassing noobs for an epeen extension they desperately require irl 

[Achnaattwo]

6 hours ago, Toraak said:

but they are saying to split the queu, and that will increase queu times. When I do PvP which I admit is rare, I'd rather get a pop as fast as possible (and I solo queu). If that means getting my *** kicked because people want to queu with friends, then so be it. At least it'll be a quick match. I can decide at that point to keep queu'ing or go do something else. That is my choice.

 

11 hours ago, Tharianus said:

Why you want to prevent that people play with their friends? PvP is not competetive anymore so why is there a problem for you? Srsly over the years you started the weirdest threads you can possibly imagine.... Just let people play with their friends it is a MMO after all. 

 

Edit: splitting the queues would increase q-times that is not an option at all without X-server! I do not want to wait hours to get a pop when i queue with friends

I think part of reason why solo and group queue to be separated, is the matchmaker is not working

probably not so bad if they're called different,  like Quick match (Solo), and Skirmish match (Solo/Group), Comp match (Group)

[Beyrahl]

3 hours ago, Eastiano said:

I wouldn’t say 65-70k dps is actually doable in a real game, a setup maybe if you get two premades and get them to stack, I’ve seen nerds taking this way too seriously.

I specifically said overall. This means you add up everyone on your teams damage. 

[Eastiano]

1 hour ago, Beyrahl said:

I specifically said overall. This means you add up everyone on your teams damage. 

That’s why it’s good to come up against the premades, they stay alive more to focus them down and get tunnel vision cos they think, “hey, I’m playing meta with 3 friends on voice comms, I can’t be losing this!” Then they tunnel me and team gets chance to cap, pass, score, kill healer in arena etc…

It really is fun baiting them and then they are scratching their head at the end wondering how they lost and didn’t get highest numbers in the game lol

Sleight of hand 😁

[Samcuu]

On 2/17/2023 at 11:33 AM, darksidenerd said:

 

Exactly. I've said it in previous posts.  I think the competitive nature of folks not having a group to que with makes 'em all salty when they get into a pug group who doesn't communicate /low gear. mindset is everything. If you keep dwelling on this this whole "premade ruining my life notion" notion, then you'll have a horrible time in pvp. You might un-subscribe or even stop playing all together, which is sad. End of day it's a personal problem. I, myself, CHOOSE not to let it bother me. Some folks in here CHOOSE to let it bother them and flood forums about how much it's ruined their life. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Devs stay silent and don't change it. 

I feel this is the group of ppl who only pvp for rewards and finishing the track. Pvp is a huge time sink if u don't really enjoy it much and are queuing with the mind set I just wanna get my wins and get out of queue....you're gonna have a bad time. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Samcuu

[Samcuu]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:52 PM, TrixxieTriss said:

Friends can still group up with 2,4,6 or 8 people., but in a seperate queue.

There's not actually that many premades that queue anyways and if you spent any time queueing with others the pops these days for reg wzs are very long for premades. Could only imagine how long it would take if there was a full 8 man premade and a premade of 4 and 2. Then everyone would have to wait for another random 2 ppl to queue up. If that happened they'd all break up and solo queue and just try to sync their pops and "ruin" the solo queue anyways lol. Bioware has stated their biggest concern is matches popping in a timely manner. Give this up it isn't going to happen this is an mmo. Control what u can control which is if u feel like ur at an unfair advantage stack ur own deck and do what u have to do to win games.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Samcuu

[DeannaVoyager]

35 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

There's not actually that many premades that queue anyways and if you spent any time queueing with others the pops these days for reg wzs are very long for premades. Could only imagine how long it would take if there was a full 8 man premade and a premade of 4 and 2. Then everyone would have to wait for another random 2 ppl to queue up. 

So, queues are already getting longer when most people have finished their seasons...?

Now imagine how long you'll have to wait in your premade when all solo players have quit playing.  You'll end up premade vs premade anyhow. Is it really worth chasing the solo players off of pvp completely when the outcome will be the same either way?

[Samcuu]

1 hour ago, DeannaVoyager said:

So, queues are already getting longer when most people have finished their seasons...?

Now imagine how long you'll have to wait in your premade when all solo players have quit playing.  You'll end up premade vs premade anyhow. Is it really worth chasing the solo players off of pvp completely when the outcome will be the same either way?

I'm a proponent of just reverting back to 4 man as a max group for pvp because I agree 8 man's are not a lot of fun for anyone. However as some one who logs into the game just for pvp, the premade complaint has only really become a thing when newer players or inexperienced players have ventured into the pvp queue again because of the pvp season.

Only time premades were an issue before is when matchmaking was broken and you'd get a double premade vs pugs. Admittedly, if you wanted to accomplish that prior to 7.2 you could make it happen pretty easily so in all honesty not much has changed besides pushing more ppl into queue for rewards. I'd imagine most of the ppl who'd be leaving in ur scenario are the ppl who rarely played pvp prior to there being rewards for doing so. 

Btw as a side note what I think is happening with pop times is its making premades wait longer to try to match them up with other premades. I don't have as long a wait as a solo player. Think it's something they tweaked with the matchmaking. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Samcuu

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Samcuu said:

There's not actually that many premades that queue anyways and if you spent any time queueing with others the pops these days for reg wzs are very long for premades. Could only imagine how long it would take if there was a full 8 man premade and a premade of 4 and 2. Then everyone would have to wait for another random 2 ppl to queue up. If that happened they'd all break up and solo queue and just try to sync their pops and "ruin" the solo queue anyways lol. Bioware has stated their biggest concern is matches popping in a timely manner. Give this up it isn't going to happen this is an mmo. Control what u can control which is if u feel like ur at an unfair advantage stack ur own deck and do what u have to do to win games.

But other people are saying that Premades are really popular & if BioWare got rid of them, pvp would probably collapse in the game.

It’s a good thing I’ve asked BioWare to run a survey, considering everyone has different opinions & perspectives of what’s actually happening 😉

Then BioWare can look at their own hard data & player wishes to come up with a plan to build up player numbers instead of driving players away.

Edited February 19, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Samcuu]

36 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But other people are saying that Premades are really popular & if BioWare got rid of them, pvp would probably collapse in the game.

It’s a good thing I’ve asked BioWare to run a survey, considering everyone has different opinions & perspectives of what’s actually happening 😉

Then BioWare can look at their own hard data & player wishes to come up with a plan to build up player numbers instead of driving players away.

They are popular I went up against plenty of them today. I also had plenty of matches where it was just pugs. Just cuz premades don't queue every second of every day doesn't mean they arent popular within the community. I only played solo this evening and didn't find it to be a big issue. They were probably out there just not in every single one of my games and I'm sure that experience goes for most solo players. Btw was also able to win plenty of those matches too.  

I do want to send a shout out to the premade I did see running quite a big tonight, the name of the guild...<Premades Ruin PVP> lol. Was fun had to play to the best of my ability and get all sweaty to have a chance to win. That's what pvp is all about 😁 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Samcuu

[AwesomeTacoCat]

I swear everyone in this thread arguing against Trixxie is completely clueless. Premades are inarguably an unfair advantage. 
 

This season I probably ran 40 arenas with 4 man premades and don’t think I never lost a match. Do you know how many of those matches were competitive? One. One match was actually competitive. The rest were boring and easy wins  

Much of the time premades aren’t even friends and aren’t even in discord. It’s just people who are halfway decent grouping up to win matches faster (or to beat another premade in que). Why take your chances with random matchmaking when you can just group with the better people in que and never lose? 
 

But that’s the whole problem. Then solo que folks just get destroyed. How is that fair or fun? They have no chance. And if they do go form a group it won’t matter because it will be a group of relatively less skilled players. As a result some people stop queing and eventually quit the game. This is why we need a solo only que. 
 

 

 

 

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, Samcuu said:

They are popular I went up against plenty of them today.

But that contradicts what you said earlier in this thread : quote -

“There's not actually that many premades that queue anyways and if you spent any time queueing with others the pops these days for reg wzs are very long for premades”

Edited February 19, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[SoontirMorillo]

1 hour ago, AwesomeTacoCat said:

Premades are inarguably an unfair advantage. 

kekw... how can it be an "unfair" advantage, if anybody is able to do the same? everybody made the free choice to be on an disadvantage. there is nothing "unfair" imposed on you from others. you made that choice to queue solo into a multiplayer environment. that's solely on you.

the only thing "unfair" is, to impose your view on how to play this game, converting it from multiplayer to single player.

what do you want to do next? claiming that better players are "unfair", because they have a skill advantage. and your premade has a disadvantage against their premade?

bioware tries to match groups against groups. that is the only adjusting screw they need to work on. as long as this feature is active, and not bugged, everything is fine. everything else you need to cope with personally.

if you want "fair" pvp, abolish everything we have, and start with 1v1 duelling arenas only.

there is nothing bioware can do to appease players like tt. he always find new things to complain about. even in a 1v1 scenario, he will start to complain that they, as an australian, have to fight americans on an us server. because their ping is 160+ and not 5.

this will never end. endless complains over nothing. that is a personal problem and not something bioware needs to intervene in.

and certainly not blow 25k on a survey that will not bring any additional info to this. people complain since 11 years on this topic. wait... no... not people... people don't complain... individuals complain about this since 11 years... 11 years bioware did not respond.

11 years... seriously... at this point it starts to be embarrssing.

Edited February 19, 2023 by SoontirMorillo
additional thoughts

[tomasnc]

1 hour ago, SoontirMorillo said:

the only thing "unfair" is, to impose your view on how to play this game, converting it from multiplayer to single player.

Right because when people queue solo they go up against bots. What are you talking about.

[TrixxieTriss]

On 2/19/2023 at 11:50 PM, SoontirMorillo said:

the only thing "unfair" is, to impose your view on how to play this game, converting it from multiplayer to single player.

Please point to anywhere in my OP that states I want to convert the game from multiplayer to solo player 🤷🏻‍♀️. 

It clearly says splitting the queue so that premades play against other premades the way the matchmaking is supposed to work, but doesn’t & never has in 11 years of this game. 

So all anyone is asking for is for BioWare to either enforce its own algorithm to ONLY put premades against other premades OR split the queue so that premades can only player other premades. 

Except I see players posting here that say premades will die or they won’t pop if there is a seperate queue. Ok, fair point. But what if BioWare enforce their algorithm to work the way they’ve always said it should. Won’t that still be exactly the same situation 🤷🏻‍♀️

From what I can tell. There are only 2 arguments against splitting the queue.

1. Is some people here are worried about pop times because they say premade vs premade won’t have enough players in the queue.

Logically that means they are the minority of people queuing. But they also have the biggest impact when they do play to ruin the majority of other players experience. 

2. The other argument is some of these players feel they are entitled by some divine right to ruin solo players fun. 

What neither of these point’s actually covers is by ruining the solo players experience, more & more of them leave pvp or the game. Which means less & less players in the queue. Eventually it will be only premade vs premade anyway cause a large amount of solo players are jack of this system. Then you’ll have even longer pops or none at all.

Where if the queues are split into a system I’ve suggested, more people will likely play pvp. The numbers in the community will increase. Those new & retuning people will increase their skills & make friends. Then they are more likely to form premades & join the premade queue when their friends are on. Over time this will increase player numbers in both queues & pop times will decrease for everyone. 

Or you can keep with the current system & drive new players & old away. Which will make the community shrink faster than it is now. You’re pop times will increase exponentially & the quality of your pvp matches will degrade even further. 

BioWare have already taken steps to try and improve player numbers. But that’s all being undone by solo players being forced to play premades. 

And to be clear on one point. It’s not the players who started swtor down the path of mainly being a solo game, it was BioWares vision that alienated & drove away most of the MMO group players. If anyone is to blame for the game being mostly solo players, it’s BioWare. But if they now ignore & alienate those solo players like they did the MMO group players, the game will fail as they are the  majority now, wether we like it or not. 
 

Edited February 27, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Iollaum]

2 hours ago, SoontirMorillo said:

the only thing "unfair" is, to impose your view on how to play this game, converting it from multiplayer to single player.

I mean I get it, logical thinking is not everyones strong suit, but come on, even you must realize that you are contradicting yourself in every other sentence.

 

Splitting the queues makes PvP a single player game? How is that, when there are still people playing toghter and against each other?

Letting people decide on their own wether they want to play in a team or solo environment means forcing others to play in a way they don't want to? In contrast to forcing people to play against premade teams? Yeah you really got a strong argument there... 🙄

 

 

I find it really funny, how you guys cry havoc about how splitting the queues would destroy PvPing with your friends in queues und thus only confirm, that the majority of players doesn't want to play in this way, which would leave you guys with only the same 2 or 3 groups playing against each other and preventing you from farming solo queuers that get forced to play against you. Yeah you guys really have the health of the game and fun for all players in mind...

[Samcuu]

4 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But that contradicts what you said earlier in this thread : quote -

“There's not actually that many premades that queue anyways and if you spent any time queueing with others the pops these days for reg wzs are very long for premades”

Nah ur arguing semantics. There are players who play premades and enjoy them, and I see them ever 3 or 4 warzones, thus they are popular. Guess it depends on how you'd like to define the statement there aren't even that many premades. The number of premades are low, maybe 1 or 2 running at most during peak hours. If there aren't many other ppl playing then ur gonna see a premade in ur wz even if there's only one premade running lol. Your issue is that u need more pops so the solo players aren't up against a premade every match. I know that can be the issue on low pop servers. I play on SF and that's far from my experience. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Samcuu

[TrixxieTriss]

9 hours ago, Samcuu said:

Nah ur arguing semantics. There are players who play premades and enjoy them, and I see them ever 3 or 4 warzones, thus they are popular. Guess it depends on how you'd like to define the statement there aren't even that many premades. The number of premades are low, maybe 1 or 2 running at most during peak hours. If there aren't many other ppl playing then ur gonna see a premade in ur wz even if there's only one premade running lol. Your issue is that u need more pops so the solo players aren't up against a premade every match. I know that can be the issue on low pop servers. I play on SF and that's far from my experience. 

Let me get this right, by your own admission, there aren’t that many premades. Therefore they are the minority of players 🤷🏻‍♀️

This is youre logic. Under the current system, premades are the minority of the player base, but with a loyal following. And they should be allowed to queue against the majority of players to farm them & get the fastest pops because you’ve determined your enjoyment is more important than solo players. 

Ok, so try & follow this logic behind your own premise.
The premades that are in the queue have a major negative impact on the majority of the solo players in the queue. So much so, that it makes the solo players leave the queue & not want to pvp whenever they see a premade. This slows down pop times & degrades your experience & everyone else’s that’s stays in the queue. That makes more people not want to pvp. Which in turn degrades the pvp community further & people continue to leave. 

But please, tell us again how making premades only play premades & giving solo players a seperate queue would destroy the game 🤷🏻‍♀️.

Have you ever heard the saying, “the needs of the many out weight the needs of the few or the one”?

If BioWare continues to cater to the minority of players ahead of the majority, it will only make more people leave. Pvp will die faster than it has been & all of these pvp development changes have been a waste of time & money. That BioWare could have spent on making pve content for everyone else. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Samcuu]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Let me get this right, by your own admission, there aren’t that many premades. So are therefore they are the minority of players 🤷🏻‍♀️

This is youre logic. Under the current system, premades are the minority of the player base, but with a loyal following. And they should be allowed to queue against the majority of players to farm them & get the fastest pops because you’ve determined your enjoyment is more important than solo players. 

Ok, so try & follow this logic behind your own premise.
The premades that are in the queue have a major negative impact on the majority of the solo players in the queue. So much so, that it makes the solo players leave the queue & not want to pvp whenever they see a premade. This slows down pop times & degrades your experience & everyone else’s that’s stays in the queue. That makes more people not want to pvp. Which in turn degrades the pvp community & people continue to leave. 

But please, tell us again how making premades only play premades & giving solo players a seperate queue would destroy the game 🤷🏻‍♀️.

 

Lmaooo reading comprehension for the win. I never said any of that. I said they are popular you decided to argue the semantics of that word. And again let's specify. I hardly see any 8 man premades those are really rare. 2 to 5 ppl grouping up with friends is less rare and I come across that quite a bit thus I used the word popular. There's a whole community of pvpers I doubt you are aware of that group up and play, and they've been here doing pvp even when there was no rewards track. 

All these ppl coming out of the woodwork recently complaining about premades are clearly ppl who are new to playing or relatively inexperienced. As opposed to just kowtowing to your demands to seperate the queue my recommendation from the very start has been to improve your own personal skill level (not you per se only those that find it difficult to play against said premades) and the way I've recommended in the past is becoming a part of the pvp community as opposed to a casual. 

Issue with that is again many ppl are here right now for seasons and not cuz they enjoy the player vs player aspect of the game and they want an easy mode to grind. Points already been made tho as soon as queues are separated and the skill gap is still a thing the casual players will move on to a new complaint about why pvp is too hard. So yeah in my estimation many of the ppl ur saying are going to quit probably weren't playing if much at all prior to seasons... You don't throw the baby out with the bath water. 

Regardless if u wanna talk solutions. Take away 8 man queues, go back to 4s. Then implement cross server queues and better matchmaking (although it seems like they are working hard on the matchmaking aspect.) That's your meet in the middle solution. 

And btw I'm probably a solo player 90% of the time I play and I have plenty of fun, I just don't get absolutely destroyed cuz I kinda know what I'm doing. And I enjoy pvp so my motivation to get better was because I have fun playing the mode and wanted to win due to a natural competitive nature. So my enjoyment for the most part is actually playing solo against premades..pug games are kinda sad lol lots of players who don't know how to play their class feels bad. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Samcuu

[DeannaVoyager]

3 hours ago, Samcuu said:

 

Regardless if u wanna talk solutions. Take away 8 man queues, go back to 4s.

 

Not good enough. That doesn't fix arena queues for solo players. 

 

You want to know why I quit playing pvp?

- premades

- 90% matches being huttball

- 4vs4 was removed from normal queue

- changing pvp weekly from 15 points to 20 points

 

 

What prevents me from restarting pvp:

- premades

- the points required to finish weekly (too many needed if you lose just one match)

 

If people insist having premades in same queue with solo players, then the solution is to give 3 points per match for solo players, no matter if they win or lose, and 1 point for premades if they win, 0 if they lose. So people who claim they group up because "they want to have fun with friends", will still be able to do so, and solo players will still be able to finish their weekly in reasonable time.

 

 

 

 

 

[TrixxieTriss]

We can all debate the pros & cons of premades vs Solos till the cows come home. 

What we need is for BioWare to run this survey so that they can see what the majority of the player base wants. 
Then look at their own statistics & data & work out how to make it work. 

My idea was just an idea. Something to get them thinking. It’s up to BioWare to work this out for the benefit of the game. It’s what they get paid to do.

In an ideal world, there would be so many players that they could accommodate everyone’s needs. Like they should have done years ago and split the queues up. And had 8v8 ranked in both group & solo form, plus
Arena ranked & a Hutt Ball league.

I recognise the game has been bleeding players, especially pvpers for a long time. Part of that reason is still having premades vs solos & Bioware adding 8 man premades to the mix, while removing ranked at the same time, has only highlighted this problem more. Of course they aren’t the only reasons people are leaving. But they are some of the main ones.

BioWare have made a gamble getting rid of ranked. But they’ve tried to offset that loss by adding seasons rewards to pug pvp & allowing F2P/preferred unlimited access & splitting Arena & Objective queues. But they are undoing a lot of the positives by matching premades in arena & objective pvp directly against solo player teams. This is a terrible experience for most solo pvpers.

At the end of the day, BioWare will need to decide if their positive changes bring enough players into pvp to offset their negative changes that turn people away from pvp. 

The simplest way forward for Bioware to work this out is to ask the players directly what they want.
The best way to do that so they get everyone’s feedback is to do a survey as people login. That way everyone from Subscribers to F2P get a say. Including people who don’t play pvp currently because of the way it’s setup.

Those against the survey are just worried it might not go in their favour.
Personally, if BioWare did the survey & the majority think solos & premades should stay together because it will improve the game & player numbers. Then I’d say, who am I to argue with the majority? 

Edited February 20, 2023 by TrixxieTriss