Update to PvP Medals coming in 7.2.1

[TrixxieTriss]

9 minutes ago, fabsus said:

There are already groups doing this. They are the same people who wintraded back then.

If you hold out the prospect of a reward, there will be people who will try to grab it with as little effort as possible.

I think we all knew this was going to happen. Which is why 8 man premades vs solo is a game killer. I’ve already seen people in private Discord channels offering wintrading via 8 man premades for real money (vouchers etc). Between $20-50 depending on your exchange rate. 

[fabsus]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I think we all knew this was going to happen. Which is why 8 man premades vs solo is a game killer. I’ve already seen people in private Discord channels offering wintrading via 8 man premades for real money (vouchers etc). Between $20-50 depending on your exchange rate. 

no, one has nothing to do with the other.

the traders don't want to play against others, because they will lose anyway. they just play matches as fast as possible. so if they group up for warzones, they try to play against each others to finish the game as fast as possible to get the weeklies done. they even don't try to play against a random team, because mostly the ones doing it, are that bad in playing pvp, that they will lose against the most random groups, even if they are all in voice.

it's the same for arenas. and if you get them as enemies, they stuck short after the the match started. so it is a free win. 

 

 

[TrixxieTriss]

2 hours ago, fabsus said:

no, one has nothing to do with the other.

the traders don't want to play against others, because they will lose anyway. they just play matches as fast as possible. so if they group up for warzones, they try to play against each others to finish the game as fast as possible to get the weeklies done. they even don't try to play against a random team, because mostly the ones doing it, are that bad in playing pvp, that they will lose against the most random groups, even if they are all in voice.

it's the same for arenas. and if you get them as enemies, they stuck short after the the match started. so it is a free win. 

 

 

I think we are talking about 2 different types of WinTraders. Yes, there are those grouping to WinTrade who are exactly as you say. I don’t dispute that at all.

But there are also highly skilled players organising groups with a few other good players & then selling a paid WinTrade service for time poor or less skilled players to finish the season & gain rewards. 

I know this because I’ve seen the Discord chat.

So, yeah, having 8 man premades vs solos is also allowing this sort of WinTrading to happen. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Pandoras_Jar]

FYI the Devs have made a change to PvP Medals on the PTS. Quote from PTS Changelog (first post in thread) - https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927375-64-bit-on-pts-updates-721-known-issues-thread/ 

Quote

[NEW] - The amount of medals has been adjusted to improve the completion of the season: 

• To receive full credit for the match, players now only need to get 7 medals instead of 8.
• The associated objectives that referenced 8 medals now only require 7 as well

 My only issue with this is I don't like odd numbers in this context. 😂

One question I have for the Devs I guess is, will the PvP Seasons Points earned be adjusted to take this change into account? i.e. Will earning 7 medals get you the same points as earning 8 medals does now win or lose? 

[DarrelK]

What are all these pointless medal changes that nobody asked for?

The old system worked great for 10 years.

[Achnaattwo]

1 hour ago, DarrelK said:

What are all these pointless medal changes that nobody asked for?

The old system worked great for 10 years.

It's a season thing, to get non-PvP'ers a reason to play in WZ's or Arena's

[TrixxieTriss]

14 hours ago, DarrelK said:

What are all these pointless medal changes that nobody asked for?

The old system worked great for 10 years.

Actually some people have been asking BioWare to revamp the medal system for several years. 

[Lost-Savage-XIII]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:48 PM, TrixxieTriss said:

I finished the weekly for WZ’s in a day. Even against part premade groups. That achievement isn’t the problem.

Well rethink this please, seeing as you can only do 3 weeklies in ONE WEEK so maybe not in a day, the Cheives 2000 medals? Average player does NOT hit 10 a match, then if you get everything done YOU STILL CAN NOT BUY what they gave us in Season 3 (in one box) no they broke it down into multiple so now it takes maybe 8-10 SEASONS to get them. 

[Nee-Elder]

35 minutes ago, Lost-Savage-XIII said:

, seeing as you can only do 3 weeklies in ONE WEEK

hmm, i thought it was 3 Weeklys  within one week PER CHARACTER , no?

p.s.  imho, the warzones 25 Weeklys  isn't the problem.   But rather it's the 25 Weekly ARENAs  achievement that causes players to lose interest & brain-cells.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: video games, at their core, should be FUN...not some chore!

[Lost-Savage-XIII]

50 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

hmm, i thought it was 3 Weeklys  within one week PER CHARACTER , no?

Is it 3 per character if it is I apologize, I thought you only got credit for 3 per legacy, (shared chieves like the conquest) guess I only pvp on one toon now that I think about it. Great Name!!

[TrixxieTriss]

6 hours ago, Lost-Savage-XIII said:

Well rethink this please, seeing as you can only do 3 weeklies in ONE WEEK so maybe not in a day, the Cheives 2000 medals? Average player does NOT hit 10 a match, then if you get everything done YOU STILL CAN NOT BUY what they gave us in Season 3 (in one box) no they broke it down into multiple so now it takes maybe 8-10 SEASONS to get them. 

Actually I did do it in a day. I’m not sure  if it was a bug or not. But I split it across 4 characters & got it. And I wasn’t even trying to get it. I was just playing normally and noticed it when I checked. 

[Peiper-kgr-gd]

fin 25 weekly Wz is not a prob

get 2000 medals is not a prob

but Arena play 25 weekly is a prob. cut to the half its ok or let the player choose play 25 wz weekly or play 25 arena weekly that will be fine

and remove premades from solo q thx

 

the medal system can be for example

heal >1.5 mio get a medal

heal > 3.0 mio get a medal

heal > 4.5 mio get a medal

and so on , same for dmg

Edited March 2, 2023 by Peiper-kgr-gd

[fabsus]

On 3/2/2023 at 8:59 AM, Peiper-kgr-gd said:

[...]

 

the medal system can be for example

heal >1.5 mio get a medal

heal > 3.0 mio get a medal

heal > 4.5 mio get a medal

and so on , same for dmg

that means, that the most people would get less medals, because the actual systen works in follwing way:

---------------------------------
class specific medals:
---------------------------------
healer: 
- 30k healing ability
- 60k healing ability
- 1.5m healing in a match

dps:
- 30k hit
- 60k hit
- 1.0m damage in a match

tank:
- prevent 150 dmg
- prevent 350k dmg
---------------------------------
depending on your class you can get medals for other specs, too.
like by playing with a DwT you will get both tank medals, because you want to taunt the enemies.
all medals are designed for arena, but it is the same for warzones.
---------------------------------
map specific medals:
---------------------------------
- from 1 up to 6 medals depending on the time to finish the map
-> 5.5min up to 3min download for voidstar
-> 10min up to 5min the other maps

- get a pylon, controll point, whatever
- catch a ball, use a powerup, place/refuse the bomb, get a power orb

- up to 6 defending/attacking medals
-> 1 point / 2500 points / 5000 points / 7500 points / 15000 points (defender)
-> 1 point / 2500 points / 5000 points / 7500 points / 15000 points (attacker)

- survive one round
- join a running match
---------------------------------
arena specific medals:
---------------------------------
- up to 2 points for winning a round
-> round 1 / round 2 / round 3
- fast matches in the first minute
-> round 1 / round 2 / round 3
- first hitter
-> round 1 / round 2 / round 4
- win the match
- last hit
- kills
-> involved in 4 kills / 8 kills
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
---------------------------------

So the actual system is very beginner friendly, because you don't need to be a real good healer,
you don't need BiS gear or whatever. all they want from you is: READ THE ABILITIES and know your class a tiny bit.
The most medals you get, is for playing objectives. 

With the upcoming changes, you will get more medals for actual kills, so the opposite of what ppl claim to want in here.

 

so if you really want to hunt for medals, may try out a hatred sin:
- good selfheal option possible
- fair amount of usefull damage
- good cc
- taunts

Edited March 9, 2023 by fabsus

[Dayshadow]

On 2/14/2023 at 8:12 PM, Nee-Elder said:

However, i also agree with the overall sentiment about somehow creating a sub-queue or whatever  to separate premades (or at least high Valor  players ) from your average solo  low-skill inexperienced/undergeared type  player.

Valor has nothing to do with skill level.

[Dayshadow]

Nobody has an issue with the possible medals earned per match being halved? Does it really need to be more grindy? I'd like more people to stick around and not write it off as not worth the trouble. Or is the weekly and/or total requirement lowered too?

And isn't this more of the same. The people with already better gear win and get rewarded while the people with lower rated gear get set further behind? Bioware continues to act like PVP is balanced when implementing these changes. You can tell the dev posting here has no experience actually playing the WZ as his advice to a stalemate is effectively to let the other team win. PVP has one glaring issue that I believe is being completely ignored: Gear. It is significantly harder, or should I say nigh impossible, for a person in gear rated 326 or lower with no augments to compete with someone in 332+ gear with augments and all the bells and whistles. The 332+ is going to melt the 326-, while that other can't even get the 332+ to 75% health. Trying your hardest means nothing. You won or lost before the fight even started. You can't have a game that allows for unfair advantages and then penalize people for being in a no-win situation and reward another for being in a nigh unlosable situation (requires gross incompetence) as a product of your flawed design. This is especially the case for Arenas. Most casuals don't even know how to gear from what I can tell. Regardless, why should someone who wants to PVP have to farm PVE content to gear? You can literally get better gear more efficiently slaughtering mobs in starter planet's opening areas than thru PvP rewards. And if you say it's so easy to gear, then why even have it as an issue? Just take it out of the picture entirely and leave it with PvE? I want more people to enjoy PVP and queue more.

And having voice chat in a premade is another unfair advantage. Sorry, but if they want to be premade they need their own queue. Restore a form of ranked and have premades compete "professionally". I do not understand why the vast majority have to be fodder for this minority of, dare I say, "cheaters". If you are taking full advantage of the clear benefits being premade affords, you are effectively cheating. Most of these WZs are based on exploiting a lack of communication (which results in a lack of coordination). If one team can simply say, "I'm being attacked at X node" and all their team members hear this regardless of any other preoccupation and be able to send just the right amount of response, that is a HUGE advantage. Even in terms of strategy, to be able to tell teammates what to do in real time is invaluable. To have assigned roles, guarantee top rated gear on all members, etc. Come on.

Until you address this (gear and premades) you have no business even having a disparity between wins and losses. Because some of those wins and losses are determined before the match even begins. WZ awards should just be based on medals for the time being. The longer the match last, the more medals are possible and therein could lie the incentive to try to win. Because if you let the other team win to fast you might come up short. No amount of grit and heart can compensate for built in disparity in stats (and in some case, class abilities). The most skilled player will lose to a mediocre player if gear is imbalanced because no amount of skill will make the same attack do more dmg under equal circumstances. But stats will. People who claim otherwise are comparing vast extremes; Like a mouse clicker using mouse and keyboard to someone good with hotkeys or some controller layout.

I think every class should have set stats. Gear should be completely meaningless in PvP WZ's and Arenas. Every sorc is the same, every vanguard is the same, every operative is the same and every guardian has the same stats. The only difference is skill. Leave the gear for ranked min/maxers. Good luck trying to get enough kills against a whole group of high rated players if you're team is not. It's usually a one-sided slaughter. 

And about Arenas, why are the requirements so high? Do you think Arenas are inherently faster? More than half the time you don't even ensure each side has 4 people. And then what happens is the stealth just wait out the time until the 3rd or 4th persons join for the next round. It's tedious and boring and I stopped doing Arenas. They were also a slower queue because, I'm assuming, I'm not alone in not wanting to do them. Probably why the teams tend to be numerically imbalanced so often. Why can't PVP (especially Arenas) be like FP group finder where people have to commit BEFORE the content begins? How can you justify allowing one team to have a tank, healer and 2 DPS and another team just have 2 DPS? You literally wasting their time that could have been better utilized in a WZ, where there might be some hope. Even if they win with 7 medals they are getting only 4 points more than a losing WZ match with 7 medals.

[Nee-Elder]

3 hours ago, Dayshadow said:

Valor has nothing to do with skill level.

You of course missed my point and then decided to make a silly statement-of-flex  generalization.

Valor indeed has something to do with skill level , in the measurement sense of how BioWare's algorithm can discern.

It's a contributing factor, as much as any other.   Just like  wins/losses , for example  -- Unless you think some premader with 90% somehow means they are guaranteed "skilled" ?

[Dayshadow]

11 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

You of course missed my point and then decided to make a silly statement-of-flex  generalization.

Valor indeed has something to do with skill level , in the measurement sense of how BioWare's algorithm can discern.

It's a contributing factor, as much as any other.   Just like  wins/losses , for example  -- Unless you think some premader with 90% somehow means they are guaranteed "skilled" ?

Bro, I'm just pointing out valor does not equal skill. It's just means you've played PvP a lot. No need to get bent out of shape.

Win/loses don't dictate skill either. As a team wins or loses, not individuals. No need to jump down my throat about this either. Just pointing something out.

[Nee-Elder]

On 3/27/2023 at 8:05 PM, Dayshadow said:

Bro, I'm just pointing out valor does not equal skill.

hey umm "bro"    nice strawman bait conflation, but i never said  valor = skill.

Skill = skill .  ( duh )

Re-read what i typed and make sure you look up the defintion of the phrase  contributing factor ( to algorithms ) .

The algorithm BioWare uses for how to place "teams" in queues  is including Valor , Wins/Losses, Roles, Gear-rating, etc.

Because how else is BioWare supposed to know the difference in RL skill between say someone like you and someone uber like  @-Bob-  ?

So the algorithm includes Valor, since presumably MOST players with a Valor of 100  are, at the very least, more experienced than some relative newbie (to PVP) with Valor 25 .

On 3/27/2023 at 8:05 PM, Dayshadow said:

No need to get bent out of shape.

ahh nice passive aggressive bait tactic you must've learned from *Suggestion Box* section.

Lemme clear things up for ya though: The only thing i'm currently "bent out of shape" about concerning SWTOR is how for many years BioWare has continuously ignored any semblance of GSF development/expansion.

That's it.

Everything else, including ____  , is mere entertainment while waiting for queues to pop or servers to load.

On 3/27/2023 at 8:05 PM, Dayshadow said:

Win/loses don't dictate skill either.

Again, i never said they did.

There's this new thing called sarcasm you might've heard of.

Regardless, as i've already explained twice now: The algorithm utilizes player's  win/loss record ( along with a myriad of other 'battle record' stats ) as a means to help "balance"  queue'ing of groups.

If you can think of a better more accurate way to measure RL skill of  PVP gamers , go write the ai code and get rich!

On 3/27/2023 at 8:05 PM, Dayshadow said:

. As a team wins or loses, not individuals.

And a "team" is made up of---drum roll---individuals.

Pretty cool, huh?

This is why each individual player has a win/loss record,  irrespective of whether or not they might've queue'd as a group.

On 3/27/2023 at 8:05 PM, Dayshadow said:

. No need to jump down my throat about this either.

ROFL , replying to forum posts with a different perspective is now considered "jumping down your throat" .

2023 society continues to prove how amazing it is.

On 3/27/2023 at 8:05 PM, Dayshadow said:

. Just pointing something out.

And i was just providing a counterpoint.

This is also known as: Debate.

See ya in the next WZ!

Edited March 30, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: this thread should be *closed* anyway, since March 28th passed and 7.2.1 already went live

[krackcommando]

10 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

multi-quoting  doesn't constitute "effort"  for some people.

it kinda does.

[Nee-Elder]

3 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

it kinda does.

Your recents kinda do too --> https://forums.swtor.com/profile/701726-krackcommando/content/

But it's ok  krack, you're still a commando in my book!

[krackcommando]

Just now, Nee-Elder said:

Your recents kinda do too --> https://forums.swtor.com/profile/701726-krackcommando/content/

But it's ok  krack, you're still a commando in my book!

I never denied putting effort into replies.

[Nee-Elder]

Just now, krackcommando said:

I never denied putting effort into replies.

lol  you know exactly what you were trying to imply by replying.

You're an opportunist, krack, i get it.

Not that it matters much anyway, since our definition of  "effort" apparently differs greatly.

[TrixxieTriss]

On 3/30/2023 at 3:53 PM, krackcommando said:

it kinda does.

I’m not even sure how to do it properly on my iPhone.

Every time I try, it’s really frustrating to do, my nails get in the way 💅 and it seems to take much longer than the old quote system.

I gave up trying & just quote ALL of it or delete parts that weren’t relevant to my reply.

Hats off to people who can be bothered splitting up a quote separately while using an iPhone. It is definitely more effort than I’m willing to do 👍

[Nee-Elder]

9 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I’m not even sure how to do it properly on my iPhone.

Every time I try, it’s really frustrating to do and it seems to take much longer than the old quote system.

Hats off to people who can be bothered splitting up a quote separately while using an iPhone. It is definitely more effort than I’m willing to do

Never tried on a phone , but on PC  it's very easy and takes zero "effort"  ( Unless clicking your mouse-button onto a  +pop-up widget a couple extra times = effort   )

However, i totally agree the old forums were wayyyy more  seemless & user-friendly.

Anyways, since we've strayed pretty far off-topic here in this now rather superfluous thread ( 7.2.1  is already released, so why keep this preview thread stickied anymore? ) , i'm gonna go spend some real effort in SWTOR  testing new turret medals in Alderaan WZ map  before joining a premade for Arenas queue.

[krackcommando]

On 3/30/2023 at 1:06 AM, Nee-Elder said:

lol  you know exactly what you were trying to imply by replying.

You're an opportunist, krack, i get it.

Not that it matters much anyway, since our definition of  "effort" apparently differs greatly.

bruh. there's a technical term I cannot even type on this board without the censor, but here's the wiki link. just the first line or two. note especially the effect or perception on others part. like correct a person who calls you new at arenas because you have insignificant experience even though you've dipped your toe in the format a few times each season over the course of 5(?) years and are therefore not technically "new," just "inexperienced." or taking issue with the word anchor to describe a weak player that (generally) cannot be carried or severely hampers the team. fwiw, I don't remember this stuff from (most) other ppl's posts. but the absurdity to need to correct these examples....it kinda sticks out. like parsing the definition of "effort."

and yeah, multi quoting, highly organized posts are an obvious early signpost for "forum tryhard," and yes, I obviously do it too.

Edited March 31, 2023 by krackcommando