So why did so many quit the game over the years?

[OlBuzzard]

4 hours ago, JediQuaker said:

Oh, oh. TrixxieTriss just became a bad word in Quebec. 😂

I wasn't going there!  But you are quite correct! I have some friends that live there!  I see them but once in a blue moon (so-to-speak). 

IMO some of this might be other issues not related to demographics as we see them!

[ZUHFB]

19 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

Spain uses euro same as France, but spain has 47m vs the 67m population France has. And you give as examples countries that did not requiere other language as Australia and New Zeland which are English speaking countries and could pay in their currency.
I had to live in south america due to work for some years and I had guildies at the beginning on the game from South American countries and they paid in Dollars not in their currency, until steam came out and gave them the option to pay in their own currency. The difference comes from the other Spainsh speaking countries, where the "Spanish commmunity" surpases the french and german speaking countries.
Look at the 4 highest Spanish speaking countries outside of Spain in population. At release when they had to pay 15 dollars by what i was told, as much as they would have wanted to play only a handful of people would have bought a sub
Mexico, with 131m population, but mexico's minimum wage is 232 dollars a month according to google, for a 15 dollar sub
Colombia, 51.2m population, but Colombia's minimum wage is 274 dollars a month according to google, for a 15 dollar sub
Argentina, 45.8m population, but Argentina's minimum wage is 356 dollars a month according to google, for a 15 dollar sub
Venezuela, 28.2m population, but Venezuela's minimum wage is 5.3 dollars a month according to google, for a 15 dollars sub

Now with steam it changed a bit, if curious:

Mexico, with 131m population, but mexico's minimum wage is 232 dollars a month according to google, for  21 dollar sub according to steamdb
Colombia, 51.2m population, but Colombia's minimum wage is 274 dollars a month according to google, for 12.65 dollar sub according to steamdb
Argentina, 45.8m population, but Argentina's minimum wage is 356 dollars a month according to google, for a 4.9 dollar sub acording to steamdb
Venezuela is not even listed. 

the subs aren't even the same in $ and € afaik, the prices vary depending on where someone lives - or that is what I've been told, apparently converting to brazils currency was a sub with >10$. But that's just hearsay, I don't know that.

[xxSHOONYxx]

2 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

the subs aren't even the same in $ and € afaik, the prices vary depending on where someone lives - or that is what I've been told, apparently converting to brazils currency was a sub with >10$. But that's just hearsay, I don't know that.

With steam they are, before steam as far as i know it was only dollars and the base amount that American players pay. At least for the people i spoke to from argentina chile and uruguay told me so. 

Brazil sub is 6.4 dollars, third one cheapest after argentina and turkey

https://steamdb.info/app/1333220/

Edited February 13, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[JediQuaker]

In most cases, you simply pay with your credit card and any currency conversion is handled by the bank.

For example, I pay $15 US which shows up on my statement as $22 CDN (or whatever the current exchange rate determines).

Edited February 13, 2023 by JediQuaker

[Traceguy]

I never left. Been here since the release of ROTHC, and have been a subscriber almost entirely since. I pause playing a few months out of the year now and then to play other games.

I think it just depends on what kind of games you prefer and what you think of Star Wars. I've been a major Star Wars buff since I was introduced to it in the 90s. I think about Star Wars every day, and multiple times throughout the day. SWTOR is the best Star Wars game ever made, because it's pretty much open world, and never ending. It also have more content than I have time for. Other Star Wars games like Battlefront are pointless, and some like Jedi Knight series, and Jedi Fallen Order are too linear.

When Bioware made level sync, that's probably what killed the game. Gone was the fun of getting OP, and then going back to low level planets and 1 shotting trash, or training to solo a WB. I remember how useless I felt when the low level content became challenging. Now there was no longer any progression. Dromund Kass seemed as hard as the level 60 content. I think KOTFE/ET may have killed the game more because it messed up the storyline and our companions. Ziost (Ending to SOR) was probably the last good content we've got for a long period of time.

And now Bioware continues to ruin this game by messing up the gearing system, and removing mechanics, and messing up class progression. Some skills don't unlock until level 70+, while the final level use to be level 50. Fix this. Let people max their skill trees before level 80. 

Do I even need to mention how Bioware is completely clueless on how to solve inflation? You know, inflation is inevitable anyways. You have to adjust to it. A gallon of milk today cost me $3. 4 years ago it would have cost me $2. 50 years ago it was probably $0.50. 

 

 

[TrixxieTriss]

8 hours ago, JediQuaker said:

In most cases, you simply pay with your credit card and any currency conversion is handled by the bank.

For example, I pay $15 US which shows up on my statement as $22 CDN (or whatever the current exchange rate determines).

Same from Australia. I pay $15 US. It shows up around $21-23 AU. 
But when we had our own servers, it was $15 AU 😡

Bioware closed our servers and we went from 20ms Ping to 200ms Ping. Then they made us pay extra for the privilege of degraded game play 😞

Sadly, Steam isn’t an option because I can’t use WTFast VPN with Steam. And I need it or my Ping jumps all over the place from 230ms to 300ms with constant drop outs.

Edited February 14, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Ramalina]

15 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Sadly, Steam isn’t an option because I can’t use WTFast VPN with Steam. And I need it or my Ping jumps all over the place from 230ms to 300ms with constant drop outs.

Surprised to hear this, since I use a Steam install and connect with WTFast 5.4.2.   Note, under my settings, in the list for default configs there's an option for SWTOR, and another for SWTOR(Steam).  Not sure if this is a default thing, or if these are custom configs I made so long ago that I no longer remember making them.

 

Edit:

Of course I say that it's no problem for me, and then try to log into SWTOR only to get constant connection timeouts whether I use WTFast or try a direct connection. Le Sigh.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Ramalina

[jedipattawan]

21 hours ago, Traceguy said:

I never left. Been here since the release of ROTHC, and have been a subscriber almost entirely since. I pause playing a few months out of the year now and then to play other games.

I think it just depends on what kind of games you prefer and what you think of Star Wars. I've been a major Star Wars buff since I was introduced to it in the 90s. I think about Star Wars every day, and multiple times throughout the day. SWTOR is the best Star Wars game ever made, because it's pretty much open world, and never ending. It also have more content than I have time for. Other Star Wars games like Battlefront are pointless, and some like Jedi Knight series, and Jedi Fallen Order are too linear.

When Bioware made level sync, that's probably what killed the game. Gone was the fun of getting OP, and then going back to low level planets and 1 shotting trash, or training to solo a WB. I remember how useless I felt when the low level content became challenging. Now there was no longer any progression. Dromund Kass seemed as hard as the level 60 content. I think KOTFE/ET may have killed the game more because it messed up the storyline and our companions. Ziost (Ending to SOR) was probably the last good content we've got for a long period of time.

And now Bioware continues to ruin this game by messing up the gearing system, and removing mechanics, and messing up class progression. Some skills don't unlock until level 70+, while the final level use to be level 50. Fix this. Let people max their skill trees before level 80. 

Do I even need to mention how Bioware is completely clueless on how to solve inflation? You know, inflation is inevitable anyways. You have to adjust to it. A gallon of milk today cost me $3. 4 years ago it would have cost me $2. 50 years ago it was probably $0.50. 

 

 

Question, do you get all your important rotational abilities for your class early enough though?  You said some abilities don't unlock until 70+ was wondering if these are important as part of your typical end game rotation you must master.  

Also, I personally am alright with level sync, but what I do not like is gear power scaling on top of that.  I'm not sure if this game does what WoW does in regards to ilevel scaling in trivial out doors content, but I don't really like that much at all.  I think the gear power you get should make you feel more powerful.  Eventually it does end up happening in WoW where you are more powerful but by then you are in a new end game zone anyway.

[OlBuzzard]

15 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Same from Australia. I pay $15 US. It shows up around $21-23 AU. 
But when we had our own servers, it was $15 AU 😡

Bioware closed our servers and we went from 20ms Ping to 200ms Ping. Then they made us pay extra for the privilege of degraded game play 😞

Sadly, Steam isn’t an option because I can’t use WTFast VPN with Steam. And I need it or my Ping jumps all over the place from 230ms to 300ms with constant drop outs.

I'm hoping that one of the things that the 64b upgrade helps with is a better experience for both areas ... AU and the EU.  I have no clue as to how it's really done... BUT I really am hoping that since those kinds of changes are in the mix already .. MAYBE the end result is better for all of us!

(Fingers crossed).

[xxSHOONYxx]

58 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

I'm hoping that one of the things that the 64b upgrade helps with is a better experience for both areas ... AU and the EU.  I have no clue as to how it's really done... BUT I really am hoping that since those kinds of changes are in the mix already .. MAYBE the end result is better for all of us!

(Fingers crossed).

My knowledge in coding is basic so i might be mistaken, but i don't think thats how 64bit works. More ram can be used but lag issues it's more about the connection you have or the path it chooses.

The AWS server on the other hand might help with lag though since the server will be changed, but my knowledge on that is practically 0 so no idea.

[SteveTheCynic]

22 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

My knowledge in coding is basic so i might be mistaken, but i don't think thats how 64bit works. More ram can be used but lag issues it's more about the connection you have or the path it chooses.

Pretty much exactly that.

22 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

The AWS server on the other hand might help with lag though since the server will be changed, but my knowledge on that is practically 0 so no idea.

The thing with AWS is that it allows the physical location of a server instance to be more conveniently located, within limits, because it can be approximately anywhere that Amazon has a datacentre (e.g., say, Paris for players in the north of France on The Leviathan), and if nobody in the area is playing, then it can be somewhere else (e.g. it can move to Toulouse or Marseille(1) when all the folks in Paris and Lille are in bed.

(1) Both are almost as far in France from Paris as it's possible to be and not be in the Mediterranean.

[OlBuzzard]

19 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Pretty much exactly that.

The thing with AWS is that it allows the physical location of a server instance to be more conveniently located, within limits, because it can be approximately anywhere that Amazon has a datacentre (e.g., say, Paris for players in the north of France on The Leviathan), and if nobody in the area is playing, then it can be somewhere else (e.g. it can move to Toulouse or Marseille(1) when all the folks in Paris and Lille are in bed.

(1) Both are almost as far in France from Paris as it's possible to be and not be in the Mediterranean.

Bottom line??

Hoping it will help??  Is that too far a stretch?  I'm guessing that's probably hoping for a bit too much?  Man .. that has to be sooo frustrating for players like @TrixxieTriss and others in similar situations!

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, Ramalina said:

Surprised to hear this, since I use a Steam install and connect with WTFast 5.4.2.   Note, under my settings, in the list for default configs there's an option for SWTOR, and another for SWTOR(Steam).  Not sure if this is a default thing, or if these are custom configs I made so long ago that I no longer remember making them.

 

Edit:

Of course I say that it's no problem for me, and then try to log into SWTOR only to get constant connection timeouts whether I use WTFast or try a direct connection. Le Sigh.

Mine is listed there too. But it doesn’t work. WTFast lists all of your installed games. But Steam doesn’t like VPN’s for some reason. I’ve yet to be able to get it working on any Steam game.

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

Bottom line??

Hoping it will help??  Is that too far a stretch?  I'm guessing that's probably hoping for a bit too much?  Man .. that has to be sooo frustrating for players like @TrixxieTriss and others in similar situations!

Honestly, I’m more worried that AWS will make my lag worse, not better. Because every server change BioWare has ever made to save themselves money has resulted in worse lag for me. 

I’d really like anyone from Australia or Asia to report what their connection is to the PTS server compared to Live server because apparently the PTS is already on AWS. 

Steve kindly reported, but he’s in France playing on EU servers. So there’s no comparison.

[SteveTheCynic]

10 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

Bottom line??

Hoping it will help??  Is that too far a stretch?  I'm guessing that's probably hoping for a bit too much?  Man .. that has to be sooo frustrating for players like @TrixxieTriss and others in similar situations!

It depends strongly on what the arrangements between BioWare/EA (on the one side) and Amazon (on the other) are.  If they arrange it so that during Australian times, they spin up AWS instances in Australia, that's a win (but a lose for a few insomniacs in Hawaii), but if they keep the AWS instances for SS and SF in the US, it's most likely to be neither better nor worse, except if it spins up in New York (which is surely slightly further that Virginia)...

Given the information we have out here in Playerland, that's about the best we can do.

(I'm also hoping that they won't do something stupid and put the AWS instances for the European servers in the US.)

[TrixxieTriss]

17 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

I'm also hoping that they won't do something stupid and put the AWS instances for the European servers in the US.

I think we all know that if they do that, they will lose some players again due to lag.

But at the same time, that’s never stopped BioWare doing something like that if it saved them a few dollars.
Who cares if it affects player experience & enjoyment, right 🤷🏻‍♀️. 

What’s got me really spooked since this announcement is what if they do the opposite & host the AWS instances in Ireland because it’s cheaper than the US. Which would increase my lag another 100ms to 320-3330ms 

Id really like someone playing in my APAC region or even western US to check the PTS ping (AWS instance) & compare it to their current live Ping. To see if there is any difference. 

The other thing I’m concerned about is how do I use WTFast with a game that could potentially bounce instances to different locals. At the moment I know the best path to the servers to minimise my lag. But if I have to check or guess each time, it’s a major pain in the arse. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[OlBuzzard]

@SteveTheCynic ..  so in other words:  Streamlined services (not steam) ..  With best "bang-for-the-buck" which probably required the new 64B format (not to be confused with the OTHER 64B game engine that has been mentioned from time to time)...  all of which is somehow related to "in the cloud" access??

(Good grief I hope I'm wrong on this one!  Half the time I'm on playing now some of the NPC's look like they've been attached to a bungie cord while running across the screen! )

Sorry ... But right now, things are not looking that promising!
(And yes ... the old man is getting a bit frustrated!!!) 

[SteveTheCynic]

18 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

@SteveTheCynic ..  so in other words:  Streamlined services (not steam) ..  With best "bang-for-the-buck" which probably required the new 64B format (not to be confused with the OTHER 64B game engine that has been mentioned from time to time)...  all of which is somehow related to "in the cloud" access??

Pretty much that.  And yes, the move to 64-bit might well have been triggered by a wish to go cloudy rather than the other way around.

 

[SteveTheCynic]

15 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Pretty much that.  And yes, the move to 64-bit might well have been triggered by a wish to go cloudy rather than the other way around.

 

On reflection, not quite.  The debate about a 32-bit or 64-bit client has *exactly* less than no influence on the suitability of the SWTOR server code for AWS instances.  They may have *also* been doing a 64-bit migration for the server, but that's not inherently linked to the client-side migration.

[OlBuzzard]

1 hour ago, SteveTheCynic said:

On reflection, not quite.  The debate about a 32-bit or 64-bit client has *exactly* less than no influence on the suitability of the SWTOR server code for AWS instances.  They may have *also* been doing a 64-bit migration for the server, but that's not inherently linked to the client-side migration.

Please believe me when I tell you that I'm beginning to grasp what is transpiring!   Your tech expertise and (when needed) down-to-earth explanations help to keep folks like me in check.   It does help!  (And I for one appreciate it!)

[GBlues]

Wow….8 very long pages. So started playing SWTOR at launch. Heck…it was the first game I got to take part in the Beta. I was so STOKED! I loved it. Then launch came, and it was so new to everyone. Made friends, started a guild! Had some really solid members, and about 20-30 members. Not big, but we all had fun. Then….server mergers. Lost my guild, lost my friends had to make new friends. Found an old high school buddy that was playing, he was of course on a different server. Had to pay to move my main characters over to another server. He and his wife were in a guild, invited me in, and that’s when the problems started. There guild members were…easily offended. We didn’t mesh well, they weren’t like my old guildies. It stopped being fun. I quit….for five years.

So I’ve been back for about 2-3 weeks. I find myself gathering materials, trying to craft better gear for my newer characters…but now I have to make bonded attachments. I don’t have access to all of my skills because now we have presets that they want us to use, and each of those presets only allows you to use the skills they think you need for those presets. Tons of inflation. No friends. New guild….I almost never see anyone from the guild on anymore. 
 

I’ve read 8 pages of complaints that don’t make me feel any better about the state of the game.  I’ll probably stick around to do some of the new expansion stuff, if I can get geared up enough to do it, but…..after that I don’t know.

[Blakinik]

On 2/14/2023 at 5:38 PM, TrixxieTriss said:

But Steam doesn’t like VPN’s for some reason.

Licensing agreements.  Not all games on steam are allowed universally across all countries.  By disabling VPNs it allows them to show that the Licensing in indeed accurate.  It also is used for anti-hacking too.  Effectively my Steamguard tells me if some dingbat from Mongolia or Brazil or Uzbekistan is trying yet again to access my steam account.

[FlameYOL]

On 2/11/2023 at 7:18 PM, TrixxieTriss said:

Totally agree. I’ve brought that up many years ago as a missed opportunity for BioWare. Seeing as ASIA is the most populous gaming region in the world. 

But Spanish being omitted is just strange when you consider they added French & German. Spain is also in Europe. Spanish is also spoken in America, Central America & South America as well as Phillipines. That’s a lot of people. Wasn’t there even a South American server at one point or am I wrong about that? 

South America was never considered when it came to servers. We've never had one.

[FlameYOL]

On 2/13/2023 at 11:01 AM, xxSHOONYxx said:

With steam they are, before steam as far as i know it was only dollars and the base amount that American players pay. At least for the people i spoke to from argentina chile and uruguay told me so. 

Brazil sub is 6.4 dollars, third one cheapest after argentina and turkey

https://steamdb.info/app/1333220/

Correct subscription has always been 33 reais per month for the monthly subscription, which is similar to WoW's price (which unlike SWTOR has servers and a translation to Brazilian Portuguese) I believe. 

[TrixxieTriss]

22 minutes ago, Blakinik said:

Licensing agreements.  Not all games on steam are allowed universally across all countries.  By disabling VPNs it allows them to show that the Licensing in indeed accurate.  It also is used for anti-hacking too.  Effectively my Steamguard tells me if some dingbat from Mongolia or Brazil or Uzbekistan is trying yet again to access my steam account.

I understand the rational behind it. The problem is some games like swtor keep closing local servers.

Which makes playing them a nightmare if you don’t have a VPN.

It’s a shame Steam doesn’t do a special deal with WTFast because you can’t use WTFast like a normal VPN.

It only works for gaming. If you try connecting to websites or anything else outside of the actual game, that connection doesn’t go through WTFast.