Follow-ups on PvP in 7.2

[JediMasterAlex]

Just now, SaerethDL said:

You sound like you need to hear this man. But you're not special, anybody can do it. They have done it before you, and they will do it after you.

There were already a lot of players better at ranked than me, but sadly no one will do it after me now...because they're removing ranked lol

I wish I could say it's been a pleasure, but really it's been rather disappointing. I always thought people advocating for participation trophies were a myth.

[SaerethDL]

24 minutes ago, septru said:

 

After all this arguing, you are still missing the point. 

 

Most players (ranked players included) like the idea of the PvP Season Track. Besides the catch-up feature, the PvP Season Track is a great way to offer rewards for participating in PvP, and incentivize new players to PvP.

 

But none of that has anything to do with ranked PvP. BioWare did not have to completely eliminate competitive PvP to create the PvP Season Track. You might want them to remove ranked PvP because somewhere down the road some person in ranked said a mean thing to you, but they didn't need to remove ranked PvP to achieve their goals. 

 

The PvP Season Track is a participation based grind, with 0 skill-based rewards. Ranked PvP, for all its flaws, was a competitive system, that rewarded players purely based on skill. 

They already told you why they removed ranked pvp, you chose not to accept it. Now you have two choices, play or don't play. It's that simple. Speak with your wallet. Good luck!

[slowdude]

7 hours ago, JediMasterAlex said:

So your position is that the entire ranked player base of over 1000 people are all horrible. What an enlightened opinion!

 

It turns out that this is the most popular pvp game mode, lol. An amazing transformation. I'm not talking about players who have played a dozen ranked games or never played warzones, I'm talking about those who the average player sees. 

7 hours ago, JediMasterAlex said:

You know what won't be fair at all? 7.2 pvp where premades will constantly be matched against solos lol

Premades of former ranked players. It looks like this is a mountain worth climbing. And there were so many words about competition. 

[JediMasterAlex]

7 minutes ago, slowdude said:

I'm not talking about players who have played a dozen ranked games or never played warzones, I'm talking about those who the average player sees. 

It's still a completely absurd generalization that you have no evidence for. I cannot fathom deliberately spreading lies and having the gall to call other people "toxic," but apparently that's your thing.

[Weswhitebore]

37 minutes ago, SaerethDL said:

But you're not special, anybody can do it. They have done it before you, and they will do it after you. There will be somebody better than lebron james one day, and there are millions better than you (which its funny you compared yourself to him). Get over it.

There is a guarantee that somebody will be better than Lebron James someday, and it is likely to be his son Bronny. That's just how the world works, however, the reality is, not everyone or anyone can make it to the NBA. Only 1.2% make the jump from NCAA to the NBA. I don't see Alex comparing himself to Lebron James, where do you get that from? Why are you creating a false narrative that makes Alex seem like he thinks he is Lebron James level?? All it looks like is you're looking for excuses to talk down to people and accuse them of elitism like an arrogant snovb.

44 minutes ago, SaerethDL said:

ioware is about making money, they obviously disagree with you and the rest of the vocal minority and now they are trying new things to get more people playing pvp

Is Bioware really about making money?? I don't see them making a whole lotta money moves considering they just made pvp f2p and are getting rid of a pvp mode that does require a sub. If they were actually about making money they would funnel some life into this games economy. Bioware also does not look at things logically, they just do whatever they want and make up excuses without ever providing facts behind their claims, they literally said Conquest Credits were the main cause of the terrible economy and inflation. They then hashed credits and look, now it's even worse.

 

48 minutes ago, SaerethDL said:

I don't work for bioware and can do nothing to help you

You should work for Bioware, they should pay you to be in their pocket, but here you are being in their pocket for free. At least some of these Streamers/ youtubers that never criticize Bioware are getting paid handsomely for it, you just out here doing it for free, make you money from it.

 

34 minutes ago, SaerethDL said:

hey already told you why they removed ranked pvp, you chose not to accept it

He and many people choose not to accept it because it's a bunch of malarkey.

[Bigfallenstar]

1 hour ago, septru said:

 

After all this arguing, you are still missing the point. 

 

Most players (ranked players included) like the idea of the PvP Season Track. Besides the catch-up feature, the PvP Season Track is a great way to offer rewards for participating in PvP, and incentivize new players to PvP.

 

But none of that has anything to do with ranked PvP. BioWare did not have to completely eliminate competitive PvP to create the PvP Season Track. You might want them to remove ranked PvP because somewhere down the road some person in ranked said a mean thing to you, but they didn't need to remove ranked PvP to achieve their goals. 

 

The PvP Season Track is a participation based grind, with 0 skill-based rewards. Ranked PvP, for all its flaws, was a competitive system, that rewarded players purely based on skill. 

Skill? Doing what? Chasing down an enemy who ran or teleported away? Using an ability at the presumed right time? Killing the healer? Choosing which and when to break a stun? All that stuff happens in regs, but that's not considered skillful to you guys as you considered it a place for people who just click random abilities. From how many see it, you guys just don't want people to have stuff. Is it that much of a problem to you that someone gets a reward and it didn't require them to need a towel and a shower afterwards? 

[JediMasterAlex]

4 minutes ago, Bigfallenstar said:

Skill? Doing what? Chasing down an enemy who ran or teleported away? Using an ability at the presumed right time? Killing the healer? Choosing which and when to break a stun? All that stuff happens in regs, but that's not considered skillful to you guys as you considered it a place for people who just click random abilities. From how many see it, you guys just don't want people to have stuff. Is it that much of a problem to you that someone gets a reward and it didn't require them to need a towel and a shower afterwards? 

You say all of that stuff happens in regs, but the great thing about ranked was that it actually sorted people based on winning. There was no subjective judgment necessary. You can play a bunch of regs matches and rate yourself highly based on whatever criteria you want to, but there's nothing objective to measure your performance from match to match. Ranked assigned you elo. Surely you can see the difference there.

Many regs players make great claims to being as good as ranked players, but the problem is that they cannot prove it, so of course such claims are treated with great skepticism, as they should be.

As for ranked players just not wanting regs players to have rewards: it's just not true. Prum and I have both addressed it. Regs players getting more rewards has nothing to do with removing ranked, or removing skill-based rewards more broadly. In other words, they could implement increased rewards for regs while still including a system to sort players and reward the best among them.

[Weswhitebore]

27 minutes ago, slowdude said:

Premades of former ranked players. It looks like this is a mountain worth climbing. And there were so many words about competition. 

What mountain of former ranked Players???? There is no mountain, they all, and if not all, then the majority, quit, lmao. If there are any former ranked players, they were likely from the older seasons like 6-10 that are retired, and like I mentioned before, there is a decent possibility that it's not even the ranked player but simply the account with ranked stuff on it, especially if there is sub-par game play. An hypothetical premade full of former ranked players isn't even a mountain, that's the Titanic heading straight to the Iceberg. Bioware encouraging as well as enabling Premades with seemingly no solid plan is also like the Titanic heading straight to the Iceberg regardless of if former or ranked players are in the conversation or not. They should've sad down, pulled a Dr. Strange, and looked at like Fourteen million, six hundred and five to see that in many of them, this was a bad idea, although it really only takes looking at one. I know your forum name is Slowdude, so your responses are likely trolls, but try to keep up please. If possible, be like Sonic The Hedgehog and go faster, faster than any of us, faster than the Mellimuem Falcon, nobody will be able to stop you once you reach maximum overdrive. 

 

3 minutes ago, Bigfallenstar said:

kill? Doing what? Chasing down an enemy who ran or teleported away? Using an ability at the presumed right time? Killing the healer? Choosing which and when to break a stun? All that stuff happens in regs, but that's not considered skillful to you guys as you considered it a place for people who just click random abilities.

This has already been explained to you what Skill in PVP is and how it's applied but you still choose willful ignorance.

6 minutes ago, Bigfallenstar said:

From how many see it, you guys just don't want people to have stuff. Is it that much of a problem to you that someone gets a reward and it didn't require them to need a towel and a shower afterwards? 

Even more willful ignorance on your part. Nobody is against Regs having a PVP track, nobody in this entire thread has spoken out against them having a PVP track. How many times must you read this to understand that?  The problem is Bioware getting rid of ranked and giving ranked rewards that people actually worked hard for as participation trophies, while also taking any the competitive aspect of PVP. Really? a towel and shower.   You are resorting to using the meaning of a derogatory term and hyperbole to describe members of any game’s playerbase who are highly skilled and competitive, and often coming from players who are upset by their lack of ability to compete. Careful, your toxicity and insecurity  is showing.

[SaerethDL]

3 minutes ago, Weswhitebore said:

What mountain of former ranked Players???? There is no mountain, they all, and if not all, then the majority, quit, lmao. If there are any former ranked players, they were likely from the older seasons like 6-10 that are retired, and like I mentioned before, there is a decent possibility that it's not even the ranked player but simply the account with ranked stuff on it, especially if there is sub-par game play. An hypothetical premade full of former ranked players isn't even a mountain, that's the Titanic heading straight to the Iceberg. Bioware encouraging as well as enabling Premades with seemingly no solid plan is also like the Titanic heading straight to the Iceberg regardless of if former or ranked players are in the conversation or not. They should've sad down, pulled a Dr. Strange, and looked at like Fourteen million, six hundred and five to see that in many of them, this was a bad idea, although it really only takes looking at one. I know your forum name is Slowdude, so your responses are likely trolls, but try to keep up please. If possible, be like Sonic The Hedgehog and go faster, faster than any of us, faster than the Mellimuem Falcon, nobody will be able to stop you once you reach maximum overdrive. 

 

This has already been explained to you what Skill in PVP is and how it's applied but you still choose willful ignorance.

Even more willful ignorance on your part. Nobody is against Regs having a PVP track, nobody in this entire thread has spoken out against them having a PVP track. How many times must you read this to understand that?  The problem is Bioware getting rid of ranked and giving ranked rewards that people actually worked hard for as participation trophies, while also taking any the competitive aspect of PVP. Really? a towel and shower.   You are resorting to using the meaning of a derogatory term and hyperbole to describe members of any game’s playerbase who are highly skilled and competitive, and often coming from players who are upset by their lack of ability to compete. Careful, your toxicity and insecurity  is showing.

1) "Retired..", "highly skilled" LOL you guys think you are something special eh? Acting like you played in the olympics or something. Real professionals play for money and real prizes, not some hand out that might aswell be a participation trophy for the ones numb enough to put up with all the ego tripping and measuring contest. 

2) Basically you not wanting to give up your "I feel special/superior" awards in a nutshell. Paint it any color you wish I can see through it. If  bioware allowed it, this forum would be filled with the nonsense and same nasty environment that is ranked is, and basically is just sugarcoated as to not warrant a ban. I wish you guys can tell us how you really feel like you give it to people in ranked. Good riddance, 95% of the toxic players in regs are from ranked anyways, can't say I'm sad to see you guys go. 

[slowdude]

58 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

no evidence for

Ranked player premades destroy warzones.  Ranked players are well aware that they like to humiliate people under the guise of playing with friends. Isn't that toxic? If everything is good with ranked players in ranked arenas, why doesn't anyone want to play with them? Where are the newbies? Where are these thousands of people you speak of? You don't even understand how quickly this mode would die if there was moderation.

[JediMasterAlex]

8 minutes ago, SaerethDL said:

1) "Retired..", "highly skilled" LOL you guys think you are something special eh? Acting like you played in the olympics or something. Real professionals play for money and real prizes, not some hand out that might aswell be a participation trophy for the ones numb enough to put up with all the ego tripping and measuring contest. 

More lies and misinformation.

8 minutes ago, SaerethDL said:

2) Basically you not wanting to give up your "I feel special/superior" awards in a nutshell. Paint it any color you wish I can see through it. If  bioware allowed it, this forum would be filled with the nonsense and same nasty environment that is ranked is, and basically is just sugarcoated as to not warrant a ban. I wish you guys can tell us how you really feel like you give it to people in ranked. Good riddance, 95% of the toxic players in regs are from ranked anyways, can't say I'm sad to see you guys go. 

You're acting more toxic in this thread towards ranked players than the vast majority of ranked players have ever been. That's the truth.

2 minutes ago, slowdude said:

Ranked player premades destroy warzones.  Ranked players are well aware that they like to humiliate people under the guise of playing with friends. Isn't that toxic? If everything is good with ranked players in ranked arenas, why doesn't anyone want to play with them? Where are the newbies? Where are these thousands of people you speak of? You don't even understand how quickly this mode would die if there was moderation.

I honestly don't know what your point is. Your posts are so jumbled, but I can try to respond.

Ranked players are not a separate species. They're as entitled to group up and play regs as anyone else.

I have no idea what you mean about people not wanting to play with ranked players. Do you mean in ranked itself? We're talking about solo ranked, not group ranked.

[SaerethDL]

4 minutes ago, septru said:

What happened, friend? Why are you so angry? 

 

Did your parents not love you? Where you bullied as a kid? 

 

Please... show us on the doll where the ranked pvper touched you. 

 

What ranked player? There will be none in two days haha 😄

[slowdude]

30 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

They're as entitled to group up and play regs as anyone else.

 

That is, ranked players do not let casuals into solo-ranked arenas, but invade warzones to stomp pugs.  Say also that this does not characterize a ranked clique.

Edited December 11, 2022 by slowdude

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

33 minutes ago, slowdude said:

Ranked player premades destroy warzones.  Ranked players are well aware that they like to humiliate people under the guise of playing with friends. Isn't that toxic? 

  Most ranked players I know, would rather not play at all than play 8v8 regs. These "toxic" ppl you encountered are just regs groups who will still remain post 7.2, but can now increase their premade size to 8. Enjoy your big pvp revamp!

33 minutes ago, slowdude said:

Where are these thousands of people you speak of? 

https://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/pvp/solo

[krackcommando]

 

5 hours ago, alasamaya said:

The whole game toxicity has one responsible, and is the moderators.

they're actually very good at moderating hate speech and personal attacks. every time I've reported someone (at least), they were banned pretty quickly. I usually just snipped the offending text. but I totally agree the lack of moderation or development in other areas (not just wintrading/throwing but just a total lack of action for game-breaking issue like dead zones, x-faction in solo q, etc.).

 

5 hours ago, SaerethDL said:

If the game actually had moderators then ranked would practically be non-exsistant, you wouldn't even be able to get a pop because half the people would be banned! Thats how toxic it is! 😜

 

again, when it comes to abusive behavior, BW has been very quick to act in my experience. regs, rated, and fleet chat.

[krackcommando]

4 hours ago, SaerethDL said:

You sound like you only want to play for the rewards anyways and don't even like swtor pvp, so maybe try out another game, maybe the world of warcraft solos you were talking about. 

trophies. and while I loved the hell out of motocross, I most definitely wanted that trophy every sunday. it's a competition. i want to win. and I want the trophy for winning. that's...um...not unusual. and I can't speak for JMA, but I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't like the game. or in my analogy, if I didn't like dirt bikes. but I LOVED racing them. which implies a competition. that has winners. and trophies. 😀

[krackcommando]

23 minutes ago, Weswhitebore said:

It took them months to ban Repodma from fleet for harassing everyone and threatning

I don't know who that is. but every single person I've reported (two rated (2 different ppl but the same one person a couple times), maybe 5 regs and 2 fleet) was banned almost immediately. it was always them verbally harassing other players, not "you suck" or "don't queue," but personal stuff like you're a ****y" or something. all I did was quote the text in my ticket with time stamps. iunno what to tell you about self harm or whatever. but yeah. in my experience, the only thing they're more responsive to is reporting something on this board (those removals and warnings are guaranteed by next business day. lol)

I generally ignore ppl or if someone is raging like a jerk, I would stoke the fires in regs. but yeah. the actual personal attacks. homophobic stuff. profanity laced name calling. every time I reported those, the offending person was gone in a business day or two. iunno. I assume I wasn't the only one reporting them.

[assatrap]

People have no clue how toxic pvp is going to become in 7.2... NO CLUE haha. If your a ranked player you already comfortable with this competitiveness.

with so MUCH potential reward gated behind pvp objectives&wins -its pretty much going to become SR Light.

It wouldnt surprise me the least few days after 7.2... these regstar try hards going to start making topics on forum on how bad 7.2 is and that we should revert back to the old system. You asked for removal of rank and introduction of rewards in unranked. Don't complain now 🙂

[slowdude]

1 hour ago, assatrap said:

You asked for removal of rank and introduction of rewards in unranked. Don't complain now

So ranked players will form premades to farm the rewards they already have? Brilliant!

[JediMasterAlex]

7 hours ago, slowdude said:

 

That is, ranked players do not let casuals into solo-ranked arenas, but invade warzones to stomp pugs.  Say also that this does not characterize a ranked clique.

Most ranked players welcomed new players into ranked that came in 1. properly geared, and 2. prepared to listen to advice and improve. There are many cases of new players joining ranked and improving.

There are also many cases of new players coming into ranked with bad gear, the wrong tactical, no conception of how to play their class, and an entitled "I pay a sub I can play how I want" attitude. Those are the people that ranked players yell at after they get globaled repeatedly, and by and large those are the people that cry about ranked "toxicity" on the forums.

[sGroggy]

2 hours ago, JediMasterAlex said:

There are also many cases of new players coming into ranked with bad gear, the wrong tactical, no conception of how to play their class, and an entitled "I pay a sub I can play how I want" attitude. Those are the people that ranked players yell at after they get globaled repeatedly, and by and large those are the people that cry about ranked "toxicity" on the forums.

I agree, this should not happen.

Conversely, ranked players also should not come into unranked wz with an "I pay a sub and this is just regs so I can play how I want, so I will play as if this is arena" attitude.

[alasamaya]

3 hours ago, sGroggy said:

I agree, this should not happen.

Conversely, ranked players also should not come into unranked wz with an "I pay a sub and this is just regs so I can play how I want, so I will play as if this is arena" attitude.

This is probably the only comment I have read here appart of the "Im glad you ranked scum are quitting" that actually has a valid point. And I trully believe it was a design issue. Ranked didnt pop "all the time", meaning ranked players that wanted to pvp while they were waiting for "ranked time" were forced to do regs. If Bioware would have implemented the option to queue 4 v 4 arenas only for regular warzones without taking out ranked, I assure you most of the "damage farmers" wouldnt queue for 8 v 8 anymore. 

 

But oh well, lets remove ranked and lets give the option to do a full premade now to go against solo players in arenas!!! or full premade of damage farmers to go vs solo people! To be honest, the whole PVP mess happening nowdays is pure design issue, and Bioware is making it even worse with this PVP revamp nonsense.

Edited December 11, 2022 by alasamaya

[TheOverMind-]

I will miss the flags and globals on me in ranked from grand/prum/crazyguy/schoi/andrew pintay/shadowbots/caecus/baby ape/burnsf/futture proof/ivoxygen/lil toasty/merc person/not mortis/pizza duh hutt/penguin/phunkyfill/pikachu/penguin/Rhettis/Shelovesnike/Sovernty/Juricane/Vehirt/Whitefox/Young sandwich/Yggradisil/Zyn'x and more. I don't have any clue if I did say twice the same person but it doesn't matter.

 

2 hours ago, JediMasterAlex said:

There are also many cases of new players coming into ranked with ........ no conception of how to play their class, and an entitled "I pay a sub I can play how I want" attitude. Those are the people that ranked players yell at after they get globaled repeatedly, and by and large those are the people that cry about ranked "toxicity" on the forums.

Maybe I've contribued to this but it was the only way for me to improve faster because unraked isn't the proper place to learn about my class in PvP. In 2-3 year I was still able to get one silver with couple of bronzes. I worked for it and I don't regret anything.

It was fun tho

[JediMasterAlex]

4 minutes ago, TheOverMind- said:

Maybe I've contribued to this but it was the only way for me to improve faster because unraked isn't the proper place to learn about my class in PvP. In 2-3 year I was still able to get one silver with couple of bronzes. I worked for it and I don't regret anything.

It was fun tho

If you were good enough to be 1200-1300, you're almost certainly not the kind of player I was referencing there. It sounds like your attitude was good and you had fun, which is honestly what counts the most. The people that didn't belong there were just losing nonstop and never having fun.

[septru]

34 minutes ago, TheOverMind- said:

I will miss the flags and globals on me in ranked from grand/prum/crazyguy...

 

Kinda pissed I wasn't mentioned first, ngl.