Unranked is actually more toxic than ranked

[SentinalMasterWW]

So yeah title says it all, in all the time I've played ranked and unranked, I've found unranked players to be the most toxic sweatiest players in this game. 

Why do i say this? 

Story time!

I was running concealment Operative on a hypergate match, I'm not a master of this class but I was playing it some more to take a break from playing lethality since its what everyone mains. Honestly while I do hate the roots this class can constantly put out it is admittedly fun when you get going in the swing of things. 

On the other team lets call this player "Bob" was running ionic discharge a tactcial IMO that is heavily broken, no skill required, and needs to be nerfed like Defel. Before you say it, I have run Ionic discharge tactical before and yes it is fun to nuke players health bars, but it is heavily abused by people who run it and it's all I see engi's/Sab's run nowadays. Anyways tried to kill Bob numerous times but kept getting stunned by Sorc's and trapped in the plasma probe discharge loop, where 3/4 of my health would be gone. Couldn't kill him, was frustrated but I accepted the fact that he's just running a broken tactical. As much as I hate on Stealthers concealment does require a bit more skill compared to lethality/deception. 

Anyways we win the match (Other team was an obvious premade that focused on just killing rather than winning BTW). Am I frustrated that I didn't kill Bob? Sure, but I get bragging rights that we won the match. 

Match ends and Bob messages me and starts gloating about how great he is (lol). Real talk don't message other players gloating that you killed them repeatedly, This is a 10 year old game with broken PVP mechanics and is heavily casual in the PVP until you get to ranked, plus no one cares your KD this aint COD. I tell Bob that running a broken tactical does not take skill, I've abused it before, I like to play engaging classes that require thinking rather than me abusing. Bob continues to stroke his ego, I just end the conversation by saying that He should play a ranked match that way he can be focused down in 5 seconds, and ya know play a mode that does require proper thinking to win (Side note: After this match I got into an unranked 4v4 and it honestly was one of the best PVP matches I've had in awhile, everyone was on equal footing and was really fun). 

Let me say that this isn't the first time I've had to deal with people like this, I find that unranked players when they get on a streak, their ego becomes greater than that of jupiter. Unranked is incredibly toxic more so than ranked. 

Maybe its just from my experience, but I find that most ranked players just want a good match. It's why people are upset that ranked is leaving, it was a place where you could hone your PVP skills and improve, it provided obstacles for you to overcome. 

Unranked is just a cesspool of people running meta specs/tacticals because they saw Mark Biggs make a video on them (no hate to him) and now they think they are a PVP god. 

With PVP opening up in 7.2 and the removal of ranked I think we are going to see A LOT more toxicity in PVP especially now that their is a "seasons" tracker that offers rewards.

Edited December 3, 2022 by SentinalMasterWW
Misspelling

[Darth-Utukku]

Bob also doesn't understand why he won a fight in which he was guarded and healed throughout.  There's no point in engaging with these people;  their ignorance is unassailable.  As Joshua said, the only winning move is not to play;  make liberal use of the ignore feature.

[StarLionAzure]

There are videos and threads on ranked pvp toxicity. 

At least if you're undergeared or trying out a game mode for the first time, people will play with you in BGs. If you're not meta with set bonuses, mods, tactical, and the right class/spec, then you're getting disbanded and ignored: prepare for that 1v4 or 2v4. 

As for people getting egotistical, I've met some SWTOR players irl. Sometimes they uphold the stereotype. For some people, this is the light that keeps them going in a squalid life. For Example, MMOByte describes growing up poor, working jobs as a kid, doubling as a parent as a kid, and playing MMOs as that one form of escapism. If someone is being an @sshat, don't give them satisfaction and limit interaction. Then just forgive and move on.

SWTOR has always had crap pvp. Swtor has crap balancing too. How are your DPS specialists going to do less damage than a hybrid healer?! If you want pvp, go boot up COD, battlefield, LoL, Smite, or HoN. Swtor is not worthwhile pvp.

In my arrogant opinion, ranked pvp can go rot in a Nal Hutta manure pit next to a fresh mound of Evocii.

 

[imthespamman]

1 hour ago, StarLionAzure said:

At least if you're undergeared or trying out a game mode for the first time, people will play with you in BGs. If you're not meta with set bonuses, mods, tactical, and the right class/spec, then you're getting disbanded and ignored: prepare for that 1v4 or 2v4. 

 Its literally called ranked, going in prepared and with right gear should go without saying

Edited December 7, 2022 by imthespamman

[StarLionAzure]

On 12/7/2022 at 1:42 AM, imthespamman said:

 Its literally called ranked, going in prepared and with right gear should go without saying

Yes that is one justification mindset which leads to ranked exclusivity and toxicity. Remember the two common rationalization mechanisms employed by abusers are justification and power. 

In anything other than SWTOR, Ever been to a tournament or played standard? 

Tournaments are partially an art form of their own (edit: and have their own idiosyncrasies). To get good at a tournament, you have to go do the tournament. To get good at simulating and training for that tournament, you have to go do that tournament. In SWTOR, the whole "go do that tournament" part is punished. This is what comically led to that near-dead game mode.

Ranked pvp lacked any functional pathway to incorporate new participants. As a result, ranked pvp is being retired.

Edited December 8, 2022 by StarLionAzure

[imthespamman]

2 hours ago, StarLionAzure said:

Yes that is one justification mindset which leads to ranked exclusivity and toxicity. Remember the two common rationalization mechanisms employed by abusers are justification and power. 

In anything other than SWTOR, Ever been to a tournament or played standard? 

Tournaments are partially an art form of their own (edit: and have their own idiosyncrasies). To get good at a tournament, you have to go do the tournament. To get good at simulating and training for that tournament, you have to go do that tournament. In SWTOR, the whole "go do that tournament" part is punished. This is what comically led to that near-dead game mode.

Ranked pvp lacked any functional pathway to incorporate new participants. As a result, ranked pvp is being retired.

Nowhere am I denying that you have to play ranked to get good at ranked but you have to have to correct equipment and know the very basics before you enter; you wouldnt play for a team in a tournament if you didnt know the rules would you?

[Weswhitebore]

I had a response but Bioware seems to be heavily censoring the forums as it highlighted every single word I was going to use. So I posted a google doc to get around this.  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Yu5tXb-Wlpyz263a3QR1JNJ-FFQIOuVIbQOodKJt5Tk/edit

[Opiklo]

12 minutes ago, Weswhitebore said:

I had a response but Bioware seems to be heavily censoring the forums as it highlighted every single word I was going to use. So I posted a google doc to get around this.  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Yu5tXb-Wlpyz263a3QR1JNJ-FFQIOuVIbQOodKJt5Tk/edit

cant give you a heart mate. already too many reactions today... 
seriously... they dont even want feedback anymore....

[Jarbarian]

Agreed.  Nothing but ranked teams tunneling me every regular WZ.  This is Biowares idea of fun?

delete "Swtor" folder.

[Defiant_Agent]

 

On 12/4/2022 at 5:15 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

Unranked is just a cesspool of people running meta specs/tacticals because they saw Mark Biggs make a video on them (no hate to him) and now they think they are a PVP god. 

Even Biggs has uninstalled now Ranked is kill. 

[Katushe]

Yesterday I had a new PVP experience. I had a teammate in an arena that gave advice that was both non-arrogant and useful. And I was so used to nonsense hatred that it puzzled me, I almost had no idea how to react.

However, the combination of the limits of my skills/my interest in pvp/my computer hardware doesn't really allow me to improve. And for the lack of skill and for the lack of interest in improving my pvp game, I felt guilty. The guy was actually well intended and frank, and yet I was not able to reply to his level of interest. And although he had best of intentions, it was still a bad experience for me, since it made me feel guilty.

I still want to have that annoying achievement of valor 100. After that, I promise I won't join a single pvp match. I don't want to ruin the joy for these kind of players. Although for the ones that shout "CLUELESS" in the group, I am loving it. And that experience is not new. And I had it twice in a day. Also yesterday.

[assatrap]

1 hour ago, Katushe said:

Yesterday I had a new PVP experience. I had a teammate in an arena that gave advice that was both non-arrogant and useful. And I was so used to nonsense hatred that it puzzled me, I almost had no idea how to react.

However, the combination of the limits of my skills/my interest in pvp/my computer hardware doesn't really allow me to improve. And for the lack of skill and for the lack of interest in improving my pvp game, I felt guilty. The guy was actually well intended and frank, and yet I was not able to reply to his level of interest. And although he had best of intentions, it was still a bad experience for me, since it made me feel guilty.

I still want to have that annoying achievement of valor 100. After that, I promise I won't join a single pvp match. I don't want to ruin the joy for these kind of players. Although for the ones that shout "CLUELESS" in the group, I am loving it. And that experience is not new. And I had it twice in a day. Also yesterday.

I'm sorry Katushe but you are sounding like a bit of a hypocrite.
You clearly say you have no desire to improve in pvp/lack of interest but yet you still want to strongly pursure the Valor rank 100 (pretty much sole reason). 

So there are pretty much 2 conslusions you can draw from this:

1. No interest in pvp other then for extreme vanity/ego project and zero consideration for those who take pvp seriously
2: Or you simply use the lack of interest/hardware as a crutch to justify your extreme vanity project

Eitherware you should not be shocked then if you encounter toxic behavior considering your underlying motivations to pvp.


And im not directing or inciting any "Hate" towards you. Just using your post as a example of recurring pattern/theme in PVP the root causes amongst many that drives toxic behavior amongst pvp players

[Katushe]

5 minutes ago, assatrap said:

1. No interest in pvp other then for extreme vanity/ego project and zero consideration for those who take pvp seriously

You are correct. I pursue the 100 valor achievement because of my OCD and for the fact that I find it fun to level my achievements at 100.

You are also correct that I have zero consideration for those who take pvp seriously. As such, I have also zero consideration for those who take pve seriously. Or any other game seriously.

Because I have no consideration for anybody that plays a GAME for any other reason than fun.

[JediMasterAlex]

3 hours ago, Katushe said:

You are also correct that I have zero consideration for those who take pvp seriously. As such, I have also zero consideration for those who take pve seriously. Or any other game seriously.

Because I have no consideration for anybody that plays a GAME for any other reason than fun.

This is legitimately the most toxic attitude I've ever seen espoused. The utter selfishness and lack of empathy on display is disgusting. As assatrap alluded to, these are the kinds of players that faced "toxicity" in ranked pvp, and it's obvious why.

[Katushe]

49 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

This is legitimately the most toxic attitude I've ever seen espoused. The utter selfishness and lack of empathy on display is disgusting. As assatrap alluded to, these are the kinds of players that faced "toxicity" in ranked pvp, and it's obvious why.

Lack of empathy? Lack of empathy, really?! 🤣 😂 ROTFL!!  Projecting pretty much, are we not?

So, as you put it, actually, THERE ARE justifications for the toxicity, aren't they?

I play to have fun. That is all. How I obtain that fun is my business alone. I don't insult anyone, I don't call names, I don't curse anybody, I don't ask anybody to do me a favor and delete his account because there is no justification for that. Not even as a response to the same actions.

I did not accept terms and conditions that stipulate that I should be an adequate sparring partner for some e-sports professionals. So, I play how I can, I learn as much as I enjoy, I get involved with any pug and I find it strange that having fun as I see fit, in a game, is rage inducing. Toxicity, as any other aggressive behavior, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the victim. It is only the reflection, the result of the character of the aggressor.

[Jarbarian]

So far today, 6 PVP matches, 0 wins.
Daily Arena of Death: 0/6
Daily March them Down 2/3
Weekly Go Berzerk! 0/24
Weekly The Spoils of War: 2/12

At this rate getting your weeklies done on one character will take longer than a week unless you group a premade in unranked.

[JediMasterAlex]

6 minutes ago, Katushe said:

Lack of empathy? Lack of empathy, really?! 🤣 😂 ROTFL!!  Projecting pretty much, are we not?

So, as you put it, actually, THERE ARE justifications for the toxicity, aren't they?

If you come into a game mode with the selfish attitude that you care nothing for the other participants, you express that attitude, and then you proceed to ruin the game for 7 other people, of course people are justified in telling you to stop queueing. That isn't "toxicity," which is why I add the quotes so often. Obviously people can go too far, but you are 100% the problem in that situation, not the people being "toxic."

8 minutes ago, Katushe said:

I did not accept terms and conditions that stipulate that I should be an adequate sparring partner for some e-sports professionals. So, I play how I can, I learn as much as I enjoy, I get involved with any pug and I find it strange that having fun as I see fit, in a game, is rage inducing. Toxicity, as any other aggressive behavior, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the victim. It is only the reflection, the result of the character of the aggressor.

You're just displaying arrogance, selfishness and yes, lack of empathy. You don't get to define what "fun" is for other people. When you enter a competitive game mode, you owe it to your teammates to be prepared and play accordingly. You are not the "victim" of "toxicity" in this scenario. You are the one behaving in a toxic manner by disrespecting your teammates and the effort they put in.

The real lack of understanding by people that act as you do comes from believing that toxicity is only manifested through words. In reality, saying mean things to someone pales in comparison to the toxic action you're performing by being there with a terrible attitude, both towards the game mode and your teammates.

Everything I'm saying here should be completely obvious to any reasonable person. But you get so wrapped up in the fact that you're entitled to a personally tailored, happy, "fun" experience, that you fail to consider the environment you're in and the expectations of the other players that experience "fun" differently from you (i.e. people that actually enjoy competitive pvp for what it is: competitive).

Again, selfishness and lack of empathy. It truly is pathetic that people like you have been the ones defining "toxicity" within the former ranked community.

[Katushe]

12 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

When you enter a competitive game mode, you owe it to your teammates to be prepared and play accordingly.

I "owe"? I owe nothing to nobody. It's a GAME!

You talk about empathy. I play to my best ability. However, as I see it, I am simply not a very good player. Not only pvp, I am a bad pve player, too. What should I do? Stop playing because I "owe" the others to be better than I am? The reason why it is the absolute best that I can, it's also my business alone and I need to justify myself to nobody.

Do you think that any of the ones that generate toxicity has any shred of empathy for the less skilled players?

Selfish and without empathy, as a victim! You would make me lough, but your logic is so twisted it only generates contempt. Aggression makes sense, in your opinion, just because aggression is passive by hiding under false politeness. Look twice in the mirror.

 

[Opiklo]

 

7 minutes ago, Katushe said:

I "owe"? I owe nothing to nobody. It's a GAME!

You talk about empathy. I play to my best ability. However, as I see it, I am simply not a very good player. Not only pvp, I am a bad pve player, too. What should I do? Stop playing because I "owe" the others to be better than I am? The reason why it is the absolute best that I can, it's also my business alone and I need to justify myself to nobody.

Do you think that any of the ones that generate toxicity has any shred of empathy for the less skilled players?

Selfish and without empathy, as a victim! You would make me lough, but your logic is so twisted it only generates contempt. Aggression makes sense, in your opinion, just because aggression is passive by hiding under false politeness. Look twice in the mirror.

 

what you should do is obviouis. not ruining other peoples game because you know you are too bad. its that easy. dont q pvp if you know you are wrong there.
do you expect people to take you to brontes nim because you want wings? 
you cant always get what you want. 
and if you get flamed because you are obviously bad. thats the price you have to pay for your valor 100. 
its on you. 

stick to heroics and other stuff where YOU can be YOUR hero.

 

[-Garmonbozia]

48 minutes ago, Jarbarian said:

So far today, 6 PVP matches, 0 wins.
Daily Arena of Death: 0/6
Daily March them Down 2/3
Weekly Go Berzerk! 0/24
Weekly The Spoils of War: 2/12

At this rate getting your weeklies done on one character will take longer than a week unless you group a premade in unranked.

I finished two weeklies solo queueing yesterday for about 3 hours. Win percentage is like 66%. Zero premades on my teams, one sometimes two premades on the enemy team. As I've said before, with players who understand the game premades are beatable and a single player in a support role can make a huge difference if they have that understanding and a decent level of skill. 

[krackcommando]

10 minutes ago, Katushe said:

Aggression makes sense, in your opinion, just because aggression is passive by hiding under false politeness. Look twice in the mirror.

or…

he plays the game as designed for sith inquisitors. with passion and ruthless ambition! 😁

in all seriousness, most players in pvp are pretty selfish to me and get heated when someone else in the game does something that violates their own personal idea about what the rules (spoken or unspoken) are. distinguishing game from competition is meaningless. pvp is both. football is both. chess is both.

[JediMasterAlex]

8 minutes ago, Katushe said:

I "owe"? I owe nothing to nobody. It's a GAME!

Have you heard of something called the social contract? You think we owe nothing to each other as human beings? The fact that it's a game is irrelevant. We are all still people interacting with one another.

9 minutes ago, Katushe said:

You talk about empathy. I play to my best ability. However, as I see it, I am simply not a very good player. Not only pvp, I am a bad pve player, too. What should I do? Stop playing because I "owe" the others to be better than I am? The reason why it is the absolute best that I can, it's also my business alone and I need to justify myself to nobody.

I would like to believe you, but you already said this:

6 hours ago, Katushe said:

However, the combination of the limits of my skills/my interest in pvp/my computer hardware doesn't really allow me to improve.

You've given up trying to improve at least in part because of your lack of interest in pvp. There is no possible way to construe that as "playing to the best of your ability."

11 minutes ago, Katushe said:

Do you think that any of the ones that generate toxicity has any shred of empathy for the less skilled players?

Less skilled players that play with the right attitude are not at issue. People that are prepared, that are genuinely trying to improve, and that are willing to listen to advice generally face little toxicity. Skilled players are often willing to help such people improve.

15 minutes ago, Katushe said:

Selfish and without empathy, as a victim! You would make me lough, but your logic is so twisted it only generates contempt. Aggression makes sense, in your opinion, just because aggression is passive by hiding under false politeness. Look twice in the mirror.

When you cast yourself as a victim, you absolve yourself of any responsibility. And you want to talk about twisted logic lol

[Opiklo]

"Less skilled players that play with the right attitude are not at issue. People that are prepared, that are genuinely trying to improve, and that are willing to listen to advice generally face little toxicity. Skilled players are often willing to help such people improve."

almost no one hates on people acutally trying.

if you are doing your thing, ignore others, basic game mechanics and you are basically dead weight, and still feel like you are important. 
yeah thats another story. 

[-Garmonbozia]

On 12/3/2022 at 10:45 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

So yeah title says it all, in all the time I've played ranked and unranked, I've found unranked players to be the most toxic sweatiest players in this game. 

On the other team lets call this player "Bob" was running ionic discharge a tactcial IMO that is heavily broken, no skill required, and needs to be nerfed like Defel. Before you say it, I have run Ionic discharge tactical before and yes it is fun to nuke players health bars, but it is heavily abused by people who run it and it's all I see engi's/Sab's run nowadays. Anyways tried to kill Bob numerous times but kept getting stunned by Sorc's and trapped in the plasma probe discharge loop, where 3/4 of my health would be gone. Couldn't kill him, was frustrated but I accepted the fact that he's just running a broken tactical. As much as I hate on Stealthers concealment does require a bit more skill compared to lethality/deception. 

 

I don't disagree with your main point entirely, other than to say the toxicity can be found in all aspects of the game. It's far more about the community than the game mode. However, there is PLENTY of toxicity as you say, within unranked.

The only reason I wanted to respond to you here is to let you know that tactical is actually quite easy to mitigate even on squishy classes with practice. Listen for the probe, get used to the timing, and save your dcds for it. Literally 99% of the engineering snipers running that tactical, rely on it completely. Once they trigger it, they have no sustained damage to follow with. I'd suggest getting a friend or guild member to run it and duel them until you get the timing down. Best of luck!

[Katushe]

14 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

You've given up trying to improve at least in part because of your lack of interest in pvp. There is no possible way to construe that as "playing to the best of your ability."

But there is.

14 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

Less skilled players that play with the right attitude are not at issue. People that are prepared, that are genuinely trying to improve, and that are willing to listen to advice generally face little toxicity. Skilled players are often willing to help such people improve.

BS!