What's the point anymore?

[fabsus]

just my thoughts, not any truth:

personally i think, that they just kicked out the arena maps from the regs map pool and also the requirements for arenas.
+ easy job
+ no tracking for leaderboards
+ bye bye wintrading and cheating

to get more people into it, you can do two things. give them chievos to grind and rewards to farm.
hello pvp season, hello new chievos.
also it adds some pressure to sub for the game, to increase the speed you progress in the pvp season.
i mean sure... i would want more subs, too. 
but again, it's a quite cheap solution.

and now they are going the altruism way. very nice. no limits for non-subs, exept...
oh well. they don't get the gear they need without a subscription, or they can't wear or upgrade it.
also it's a real pain to farm for augments as a f2p player. and in pvp, gear matters. but hey, nice!
+ more subs
+ more cartel market sells

but what could we expact as players? so there will be rewards and chievos to grind for. do you really think
that they will do it the best possible way, or will it be like in the past, when people throw every match because
it was a faster progress than actually learning the game an win the match. so how many idle players who just move,
when they were flagged, could we expact? less than 50%? also the gameplay will lose a lot of quality, even compared to
the way it is now; i personally thought it couldn't drop more. but you give them the tools to do so, and i don't think
that there will be any working mechanic against it. 
and a one time credit sink is actually useless, if you still can earn so much.

and now we will have conquest goals, a season for the complete game and another season for pvp.
it really reminds me to the scammy mobile games with tons of playable rewards and always the reminder
to pay some bucks to increase your progress speed. and you always get crates to get people into lootboxes,
even forbidden in some countries, because it is declared as illegal gambling. 

so actually they are taking away a complete part of the game and give us some mechanics to hopefully pay more
for less content, they just don't want to moderate. 

i hope i'm totally wrong with that.


/edit for the lulz:
just to give you an example how bad pvp matches are, i played several matches voidstar with
my anni mara, hatred sin and madness sorc and it was not seldom, that i healed the most, even
if we had full specc healers in our team. come on. and i didn't tryharded any of these matches.

Edited November 14, 2022 by fabsus
edit for the lulz

[JediMasterAlex]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:14 PM, illgot said:

You claim "well we had to win" when the reality was and always has been that guilds and players win traded every season. Non ranked PvP players win traded between seasons and Bioware has never cared.

The vast majority of solo ranked rewards were not wintraded for. Stop spreading misinformation.

[EllieAnne]

On 11/11/2022 at 5:51 PM, SentinalMasterWW said:

They don't care anymore. They don't listen to feedback,

Anymore?  Did they ever?

How many times have they come into a thread, promise to address the issue or look at the bug and then we never hear from them again.

[Nee-Elder]

1 hour ago, EllieAnne said:

Anymore?  Did they ever?

Yes actually, but the perception is that they don't (or "never" do) .   The reason for this perception is a bit layered:

1.  BioWare  Leads (like  EricMusco, for example)  are very inconsistant with their posts, compared to their "promises" .  But at least he does TRY every once in a while, like here:  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/923668-a-note-from-the-dev-team/
2.  BioWare Devs (coders)  are rarely allowed to post  'blogs'  (behind the scenes) type info  these days.   Most likely, they are all too busy CODING. There are some notable  exceptions of course, like this recent one here:  https://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20210722 ...as well as  quick but very nice acknowledgements like this other one here: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/925323-feedback-on-gearing-in-the-r-4-anomaly-operation/?do=findComment&comment=9727712  ...but otherwise, even the actual official website blog  hyperlink itself seems to be defunct--> https://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog   )
3.  Most players  rarely ever bother to use these forums, which are usually dominated by the proverbial 'vocal minority' .  (so instead BioWare tends to value other avenues of feedback , like metrics & such )
4.  The few random users who do end up coming to these forums  often aren't even aware of the  'Dev Tracker'  exists: https://forums.swtor.com/discover/6/  ...much less remember to follow it.

But i can assure you, BioWare  most certainly  reads EVERY single  post & thread here on the forums.  However, for obvious reasons, like most reps they typically are extremely careful (and tactical) with their  gold replies.   Sometimes they might even just simply react--> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/925868-ruhnuk-planet-feedback/?do=findComment&comment=9728651

And other times, when appropriate, they'll even  engage with forum community a bit more , like here: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/924036-outfitter-71-thank-you-for-the-updates-still-needs-work/#comment-9715940

imho,  it's up to US , as the Community , to be more measured (but honest) in our criticisms , whilst being more appreciative of their collective positions.  This is often much easier said than done, i admit.  Case-in-point: Just look at all the times i mention my true feelings about Cartel Market re-skin$.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Nee-Elder
Reason: links links & more links

[illgot]

6 hours ago, JediMasterAlex said:

The vast majority of solo ranked rewards were not wintraded for. Stop spreading misinformation.

did I ever say "vast majority of solo ranked were win traded"?

No, I did state that non ranked players win traded between seasons? Yes, because it happened all the time and Bioware never cared.

Edited November 14, 2022 by illgot

[Nee-Elder]

27 minutes ago, illgot said:

 I did state that non ranked players win traded between seasons? Yes, because it happened all the time and Bioware never cared.

Wellllll .... looks to me like they actually tried to care-->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/881858-how-to-report-cheating-and-win-trading

( But perhaps there was either too many to catch ....or.... not enough done to those who got caught to deter others? )

[Sarova]

22 hours ago, Hadsil said:

They have combined the Malgus and Mandalorian stories. I don't know if it was always meant to be that way, but by convenience they introduced never heard of before NPCs to link the stories together via a holocron.

 

I know they've combined the stories (writer vacancies?) but they are going with the Mando side of the story first from the info they gave during the livestream.  I'm indifferent to Mando side of the story and Sa'har and Ri'Kan Kateen.  But I guess they need an enemy in Heta Kol for the non-force user player characters (makes more sense than going up against über force wielders like Arcann/Vaylin/Malgus/Valkorian with a gun).

[illgot]

22 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Wellllll .... looks to me like they actually tried to care-->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/881858-how-to-report-cheating-and-win-trading

( But perhaps there was either too many to catch ....or.... not enough done to those who got caught to deter others? )

so many groups farmed RPMs off season that it was more common to see people farming than actual pvpers in group ranked. I feel like Bioware only cared about win trading during an active season.

Edited November 14, 2022 by illgot

[aeterno]

Eh I would not worry too much about the competitive aspect of PvP

BW will probably do what it did the last time they declared war on toxicity, stick some valuable mat in the weekly rewards and make only wins count again. That was so fun. 

[EllieAnne]

21 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

But i can assure you, BioWare  most certainly  reads EVERY single  post & thread here on the forums.  However, for obvious reasons, like most reps they typically are extremely careful (and tactical) with their  gold replies. 

You have a hard time convincing me that they care when the Community managers rarely follow through on getting back to us on issues.  And when they do it is always something innocuous.  Should I pull up my Shroud thread that is still waiting (I think 2 years maybe?) for a CM to get back to us?  I'm sure everyone could pull up a few of those.

[Nee-Elder]

1 hour ago, EllieAnne said:

You have a hard time convincing me that they care when the Community managers rarely follow through on getting back to us on issues.

There are plenty of  negatives to criticise  about  SWTOR these days , but  imho  @JackieKo  isn't  one of them.   She can only do so much.  She isn't a CODER.   She's meant to be a 'bridge'  in between.

1 hour ago, EllieAnne said:

 And when they do it is always something innocuous.

I'd hardly call the posts  in here:  https://forums.swtor.com/discover/6/  to be  "innocuous"  ( 7.2 wz's merge anyone? ) but as i said above  they (BioWare)  certainly  pick&choose  when (and who) they reply to.   That's par-for-the-course  though, with most  Dev Teams who answer to EA. 

1 hour ago, EllieAnne said:

 Should I pull up my Shroud thread that is still waiting (I think 2 years maybe?) for a CM to get back to us?

No need, since i have forum search on speed-dial....

• https://forums.swtor.com/topic/905480-is-there-a-work-around-this-shroud-bug/?do=findComment&comment=9585604
• https://forums.swtor.com/topic/905480-is-there-a-work-around-this-shroud-bug/?do=findComment&comment=9585753

....and it looks like  JackieKo  did indeed take the time to reply  TWICE ^ , even though  you the OP  never even  quoted her nor provided her with answers to her questions within the thread. (unless you sent it by PM? )  -- Instead, you chose to maintain  bitterness & bark , both of which now seem to be clouding your current posts with a dark , umm, shroud.  ( ironic pun intended  )

My educated GUESS (having served as 'Dev' on another SW mmo) , is that  1 of 2 things occurred:

1.  JackieKo  took the  thread & reports back to the CODERS and they asked  QA to reproduce the issue.  But QA was unable to reproduce.
2.  QA was indeed able to repoduce....but: The issue itself goes to a larger more pervasive problem with the game-engine & game-design (how the game handles  Z-axis & collision) therefore would require  either a  'refactoring' of old code  and/or a total revamp of SWTOR itself.   BioWare decided to prioritize other things.   Or they just simply weren't authorized by EA  to tackle such a massive overhaul.  Or, most likely, such an overhaul isn't even possible without completely changing game-engine from outdated 'Hero' engine.

1 hour ago, EllieAnne said:

 I'm sure everyone could pull up a few of those.

Ya think?!  Check my 'sig' below!

However, yes i agree communication around here (specifically by @EricMusco) could certainly be wayyy better and more consistant, but if players expect  gold replies  to each & every  forum thread 24/7 , you're gonna be disappointed & dreary.   Heck, @CommunityTeam tried that last year  with tons of  "we acknowledge this ______ issue and it has been added to the  Known Issues list "  constant posts and all that increased frequency did was highlight  how much work was piling up for the few Devs left still on-staff after 10+ years.

So now, as you may have noticed, they just decided to *lock*  that sticky thread alltogether;  probably so Devs  wouldn't have to sift through all the  "you outta be fired BioWare!!!!"  type posts, just to get to actual  bug intel.

TL;DR :  Lower your expectations , while focusing on clear positives, and you just might fade out of the darkside sooner rather than later.  -- Same type of outlook that can apply well in RL for some people too.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Nee-Elder
Reason: i realize it's sometimes easier said than done

[OlBuzzard]

** I still maintain that the best days of SWTOR could still be ahead.  I'm not sure exactly what happened in 7.0  I know what the END RESULTS were/are.

** I'm not sure that lowering the expectations is exactly correct either (although I can appreciate WHY Nee-Elder would say that).  

** Frustrations:  IMO this is where a LOT of players are at.  So very few want to even discuss anything positive.  Ashamed really.  In fact, for the first time in a while now I'm really asking myself why I'm still messin' with this forum board.

** That said I still maintain my position of what we stated earlier in this thread ... we need all aspects of a MMO to be alive and well right here in SWTOR.

(From another thread ...  something I've already posted)

I'll go out on a limb and say that IMO we NEED to see a return to the KotFE / ET style while keeping some of the style we see in the current presentation as well.  There has to be room for:

** Story

** Multi-level difficulty PvE

** PvP with multiple styles... 1v1; 2v2; 4v4; and large scale PvP such as 10v10 (or more).

There HAS to be room!  IMO it is a mistake for us to assume that a game (MMO style) MUST choose one style or design over the other.  I personally do not begrudge any player who's style or ability is different (or better) than that of mine!

IMO it's time for the companies who are planning / designing these games to simply roll up their sleeves and get down to it!!  STOP  WORRING ABOUT THE WALL !!!!  

NOT going to happen??  

IMO ... the reality of what happens next is out of my hands.  

"If you build it they will come" ...  might seem like a fantasy to some ...  BUT IMO ... in this game it's not that far from the truth!

 

[Katushe]

On 11/12/2022 at 1:40 PM, ZUHFB said:

If I wanted 3v4s and people just afking or just walking a straight line typing "plAY ObJeCtiVe GuYs" I'd do regs, but I don't want to do that.

 

The irony is that you really do not sense how arrogant the above statement is. I played regs in season 8. The abuse I got as a tank that refused to be a shank was something that convinced me to never que regs after that. So, it's easy: you like competitiveness so much, it justifies your arrogance? You are a social minority and your presence in any social gathering is disliked by the majority.

[ZUHFB]

Just now, Katushe said:

The irony is that you really do not sense how arrogant the above statement is. I played regs in season 8. The abuse I got as a tank that refused to be a shank was something that convinced me to never que regs after that. So, it's easy: you like competitiveness so much, it justifies your arrogance? You are a social minority and your presence in any social gathering is disliked by the majority.

I know how it sounds thanks. Its just true, its not arrogant. I don't care that they are not that skilled or don't have a keyboard, I care that those are the only people I can play against. If I wanted to boost my ego I'd do regs only. I'm not ego tripping or smth like that but having a fair accessment of ones own skill level is a part for getting better. I took part in a closed 1v1 tourny by prum and got clapped, that was fun because both sides know what was going on and what was going on.

I suggest you play the game like you want to, well at least as long as they don't choose to delete that part of the game, and I play the part I like. Oh wait, it gets removed...

[joshuadyal]

If ranked PvP was your thing, then yeah; why bother? However, don't make the head-exploding mistake of thinking that hardcore PvPers keep games alive, or that most people care about the PvP scene at all. Not that BioWare isn't capable of making mind-numbingly stupid mistakes, but I think that if they remove an aspect like that from the game, it's because they have data that hardly anyone is using it.

[ZUHFB]

5 hours ago, joshuadyal said:

If ranked PvP was your thing, then yeah; why bother? However, don't make the head-exploding mistake of thinking that hardcore PvPers keep games alive, or that most people care about the PvP scene at all. Not that BioWare isn't capable of making mind-numbingly stupid mistakes, but I think that if they remove an aspect like that from the game, it's because they have data that hardly anyone is using it.

getting that data cost them more resources then they have invested into the mode in the last year.

[Yojadi]

The ranked pvp scene is the minority in SWTOR, thinking otherwise is just being delusional.

If you want to focus ranked pvp then play WoW. The vast majority  of the player base in SWTOR is casual....all the "hardcore" raiders left 10 years ago. Not even 1% of the playerbase did ranked pvp in SWTOR, this change impacts barely anyone.

This isn't my opinion it's a fact, if the ranked population was large enough to make any sort of an impact of upsetting the player base then Bioware wouldn't of removed it. But they did, why? cause they know maybe 10 people will be upset lol.

Welcome to SWTOR, do the stories, watch some cutscenes and then when you get bored unsub and go play other MMOs like everyone else does. SWTOR is a rotating door of an MMO.

You started playing in 2017, you were 6years late on the pvp hype train. It's been a meme ever since. Accept it and move on

Edited November 21, 2022 by Yojadi

[illgot]

3 hours ago, Yojadi said:

The ranked pvp scene is the minority in SWTOR, thinking otherwise is just being delusional.

If you want to focus ranked pvp then play WoW. The vast majority  of the player base in SWTOR is casual....all the "hardcore" raiders left 10 years ago. Not even 1% of the playerbase did ranked pvp in SWTOR, this change impacts barely anyone.

This isn't my opinion it's a fact, if the ranked population was large enough to make any sort of an impact of upsetting the player base then Bioware wouldn't of removed it. But they did, why? cause they know maybe 10 people will be upset lol.

Welcome to SWTOR, do the stories, watch some cutscenes and then when you get bored unsub and go play other MMOs like everyone else does. SWTOR is a rotating door of an MMO.

You started playing in 2017, you were 6years late on the pvp hype train. It's been a meme ever since. Accept it and move on

people can argue as much as they like about how ranked PvP is an integral part of SWTOR but Bioware has the hard numbers of how many accounts have access ranked PvP, how many accounts played more than 10 games, and how many accounts play more than 10 games a year. It wouldn't shock me to find out more people play Space Missions than play ranked PvP. There is a whole community devoted to just leveling in Space Missions.

Edited November 21, 2022 by illgot

[jedimasterjac]

On 11/21/2022 at 4:23 AM, illgot said:

people can argue as much as they like about how ranked PvP is an integral part of SWTOR but Bioware has the hard numbers of how many accounts have access ranked PvP, how many accounts played more than 10 games, and how many accounts play more than 10 games a year.

For better or worse the hard truth probably is that ranked PvP is just a tiny, truly tiny minority. Very vocal, sure, but not substantial.

 

And if that community is exceptionally toxic, and that game mode is a huge barrier of entry for people, and you want to make that game mode more popular...

[Ricul]

Funny, when the game came out the word toxic didn't even exist and people were just fine.

[waisting]

On 11/12/2022 at 1:49 AM, illgot said:

Awesome, because Bioware isn't taking out PvP so your fun will still exist.

Yes and no. For some people, high levels of competition (like rankings with rewards at stake) are what is fun. So for those players, their fun is certainly being removed. But you are right that PVP still exists as a game mode in its most popular capacity, unranked / objective based. 

I think it's understandable why ranked players are not happy. It's what they log in to do (for years probably) and it's gone. 

Overall it effects a small segment of the game population, but I think it's unfortunate that any part of the community has their favorite thing deleted from the game. I would say the same thing if they deleted NiM ops, MM uprisings, or any other group content barely anyone does. 

[Opiklo]

On 11/21/2022 at 7:21 AM, Yojadi said:

The ranked pvp scene is the minority in SWTOR, thinking otherwise is just being delusional.

If you want to focus ranked pvp then play WoW. The vast majority  of the player base in SWTOR is casual....all the "hardcore" raiders left 10 years ago. Not even 1% of the playerbase did ranked pvp in SWTOR, this change impacts barely anyone.

This isn't my opinion it's a fact, if the ranked population was large enough to make any sort of an impact of upsetting the player base then Bioware wouldn't of removed it. But they did, why? cause they know maybe 10 people will be upset lol.

Welcome to SWTOR, do the stories, watch some cutscenes and then when you get bored unsub and go play other MMOs like everyone else does. SWTOR is a rotating door of an MMO.

You started playing in 2017, you were 6years late on the pvp hype train. It's been a meme ever since. Accept it and move on

hardcore raiders left 10 years ago? 
you know the legend of the super hard old content....
df and dp even with nim buff werent comparable to stuff like gods. 
but yeah the "back in my day" faction is going hard. 

most of the conquerers of the fortress and deposers couldnt even get past tyth. 
but yeah in a time when you had hybrid specs which did like 30% more dmg than intended... yeah there the game was hard. 
did you ride on a dinosaur to school? uphill? both ways? while metor rain was a normal occurance?

yeah a lot of people left the game over time. but to say all hardcore raiders left 10 years ago is just blatantly disrespectful to guilds like failure, DoB and others. 
those guys playtested operations. they actually DID something for the game. 
when we had problems with our tank having to go on military service during gods progress jaydenz came to help us out (a german raid team on the german server) 
those people cared. 

and here you are disrespecting a lot of really nice, helpful people. 

what do you do for the game / community? 

[SteveTheCynic]

20 hours ago, Ricul said:

Funny, when the game came out the word toxic didn't even exist and people were just fine.

That word did, indeed, exist, in fact.  It meant "poisonous", as it still does.