Solution for the Inflation

[LuisViana]

What I am about to post will probably get me hated by some players but it's something that will need to happen some time.

 

Let me start with the fact that english is not my main language so this wall of text might have a few mistakes.

 

We all know that the prices of everything went skyhigh in the last years. During 3.0 you could buy a purple augment for around 100k, which would be made in a daily area cicle (around 5 dailies and a weekly), today it costs around 70 million, which would be like a whole year of dailies.

 

I'm aware that dailies are not a good way to farm money, nowadays you can send a standard crew skill and receive 1 million worth of materials, making the farm more reasonable but way to scary for newbies and new players (which are the players who bring the revenue to the company and keep the game running), when a player joins the game as a f2p and reach the fleet he usually goes around the fleet and check the gtn, just to see that basically he won't be able to buy anything, since his cap won't even allow to buy a single stim and the only way to make money that he knows is by doing his story line (it doesn't help either that people don't share the knoledge of ways of making money like the OEM/RPM and the crafting criticals). In the past, when a newbie would ask for money, i would give him like 30 to 50k and he would be happy until like nar shaddaa, nowadays i give them like 5 mil... That's inflation.

 

While most will say "he should just subscribe, use a token, level 80 and start farming", thats not something friendly to new players and our player base is already falling so short that even after a main release like a new operation I can see the merge of Satele Shan and Star Forge getting closer.

 

The inflation has even started reaching endgame players as golden augments are now out of the GTN and being traded manually for over 1.4B.

 

I have written all that to suggest two solutions; the slow one (which we might not have time), and the fast one.

 

The slow one is to have an expansion with a HUGE money sink mechanic, just like the rival company did with BFA and the azerite armor; I'm talking about something that might sink Billions and Billions of credits for a 4 to 5% improvement over who doesn't do it.

 

And... There is fast way, which will get me hated by whoever doesn't know political economy or mathematics.

 

Cut 2 to 3 zeroes of everyone... Do a study and find a value between 100 and 1000 times and cut it from everyone, just like governments do. That would tecnically not affect the inflation rate or the discrepancy between players wealth but it's a fast and known way to assure purchasing power and to reduce the entrance barrier.

 

I'm talking about whoever has 10 bil at the legacy bank having 100 mil (with a 2 zeroes cut) and whoever has 100k having now 1k, but with missions still giving the same money. That would instantly solve the purchasing power issue and reduce the entrance barrier, so that you would only need to balance the rate at which the money goes in and out of the game through smaller sinks.

 

Sorry about the wall of text but since we're now dealing with country level amounts of money (where millions are like pennies and we start thinking about it at Billions), this might be 2 possible solutions.

 

Thank you for your time.

[TonyTricicolo]

Yeah, you take away anyone's money and there'll be a revolution! Ha ha! Edited August 23, 2022 by TonyTricicolo

[arunav]

Yeah, you take away anyone's money and there'll be a revolution! Ha ha!

 

I'm not endorsing the OP's exact solution, but he generally has the right idea.

 

The only way to get most items back on the GTN while maintaining the relative purchasing power of almost all players is to, unannounced, cut a proportion of credits out of the game. This should be coupled with a very thorough targeting of credit sellers' accounts, and probably also exempt those below a certain credit threshold.

 

Unfortunately, even if it would actually improve QoL and the game economy for almost everyone, including those who are at or nearly at the legacy credit max, I think the player base is basically too stupid to understand and react to such a change reasonably.

 

It wouldn't address one of the roots of credit inflation in SWTOR, i.e. almost nothing to remove credits from the game, but that's been the case for almost its entire lifetime, especially since 3.0 and the removal of skill costs. But it took years to get to what the game economy is currently like, and a reset of credit levels back to a few years ago, as long as credit sellers are hit effectively too, would probably help a great deal.

 

We don't have the player data BW does. It's impossible to suggest better or more comprehensive solutions. From the outside looking in, this sort of action seems reasonable, with the important exception many, many players will react poorly and not understand their purchasing power is basically the same, and with almost all items on the GTN again after the 'shock' goes through the economy.

 

It's important to note the current game economy might help BW's cartel coin sales. If newer items simply aren't on the GTN, players who otherwise would have been able to save up for such items with in-game credits and then only unlock them with CCs are now being forced to purchase them from the CM store potentially. On the other hand, they might also be buying credits from illegal sellers instead, if willing to risk their personal information, knowingly or unknowingly.

Edited August 23, 2022 by arunav

[TonyTricicolo]

They do that and that will be the final nail in the coffin. You think the SWG's NGE mass exodus was huge? Ha! Taking away people's credits would make that seem pale in comparison.

[xordevoreaux]

They do that and that will be the final nail in the coffin. You think the SWG's NGE mass exodus was huge? Ha! Taking away people's credits would make that seem pale in comparison.

 

The reason it would be the nail in the coffin is that the game is not a country.

 

In countries in the past which have purposefully devalued their currency in a desperate attempt to control inflation, the citizens of those countries couldn't simply flip a switch and suddenly be in another country, analogous to us switching games.

 

Yes, people do flee failing economies, but unlike gamers, who can simply uninstall one game and install another, people in countries have lives, relations, property, a history with their country, probably even a defensive pride despite their country's woes. In other words, roots. Some are trapped and can't simply head to the border.

Despite a common myth, countries are not as easy to walk away from as a game.

 

Aligning the idea of a game's economy to a country's economy, therefore, fails to make a very necessary distinction between players and citizens.

Edited August 23, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[DeannaVoyager]

I'm not endorsing the OP's exact solution, but he generally has the right idea.

 

The only way to get most items back on the GTN while maintaining the relative purchasing power of almost all players is to, unannounced, cut a proportion of credits out of the game. This should be coupled with a very thorough targeting of credit sellers' accounts, and probably also exempt those below a certain credit threshold.

 

Unfortunately, even if it would actually improve QoL and the game economy for almost everyone, including those who are at or nearly at the legacy credit max, I think the player base is basically too stupid to understand and react to such a change reasonably.

 

It wouldn't address one of the roots of credit inflation in SWTOR, i.e. almost nothing to remove credits from the game, but that's been the case for almost its entire lifetime, especially since 3.0 and the removal of skill costs. But it took years to get to what the game economy is currently like, and a reset of credit levels back to a few years ago, as long as credit sellers are hit effectively too, would probably help a great deal.

 

We don't have the player data BW does. It's impossible to suggest better or more comprehensive solutions. From the outside looking in, this sort of action seems reasonable, with the important exception many, many players will react poorly and not understand their purchasing power is basically the same, and with almost all items on the GTN again after the 'shock' goes through the economy.

 

It's important to note the current game economy might help BW's cartel coin sales. If newer items simply aren't on the GTN, players who otherwise would have been able to save up for such items with in-game credits and then only unlock them with CCs are now being forced to purchase them from the CM store potentially. On the other hand, they might also be buying credits from illegal sellers instead, if willing to risk their personal information, knowingly or unknowingly.

 

Very good post that I agree with.

 

Cutting off zeros of everyone's credits is not a solution. It won't affect the whales who are hoarding hypercrates instead of credits, but it will affect everyone else. And if anything, it will make inflation worse. I know I would immediately convert my credits to CM items I can get from GTN. I've earned my credits legitimately and I shouldn't be punished because BW doesn't ban exploiters permanently.

[SteveTheCynic]

Cut 2 to 3 zeroes of everyone... Do a study and find a value between 100 and 1000 times and cut it from everyone, just like governments do. That would tecnically not affect the inflation rate or the discrepancy between players wealth but it's a fast and known way to assure purchasing power and to reduce the entrance barrier.

You need to put more effort into understanding the causes and effects of actual real-world hyperinflation, specifically:

* Its origins are a lack of confidence in the currency.

* The government reacts to the beginnings of it by printing more money with bigger face values.

* That just makes the inflation worse.

* Eventually, the government replaces the old currency with a new currency with N zeroes removed. It's not just "they delete zeroes", but "they replace the entire currency".

* That makes the lack of confidence worse.

* Rinse and Repeat.

 

Simply deleting zeroes from the number of credits people have doesn't fit anywhere in that schema. Imagine the poor schmuck who's just started. He's on Ord Mantell and has accumulated almost enough credits to buy that 1500-credit set of boots that are better than anything a slain separatist will drop. He's at 1400 credits and the unannounced (you said it should be unannounced, remember) zero-drop happens. Now he has 14 credits and the set of boots is still 1500 credits. (In the real-world case, the boots would *also* be cut in price, to just 15 credits, because 1500 "old" credits is the same as 15 "new" credits.)

 

What is that player going to think?

[BRKMSN]

I don't understand why it never occurs to people to take advantage of crafting abilities in the game instead of relying on player trade to purchase craftable items.

[xordevoreaux]

I don't understand why it never occurs to people to take advantage of crafting abilities in the game instead of relying on player trade to purchase craftable items.

 

Crafting isn't a logical choice for some people because crafting isn't what drew them to the game.

 

Perhaps all a person is interested in is PvP. They don't want to send companions out on missions or burn credits on crafting materials to skill up an ecology of crafters, they want to compete in the next round of PvP. That's their entire focus, that's the only reason they log on.

 

Some people may have other preoccupations with the game other than PvP who also have no desire to craft.

The fastest way from point A to Point B for those players therefore isn't crafting, but burning credits on what they want.

 

I can totally see people in that mindset remaining perpetually averse to crafting regardless how much it might sidestep the entire conversation about inflation. They will continue to do what they've done in the past, which is burn credits. When something's in the way of doing that, such as hyperinflation, they hit the forums and complain. They won't change their behavior, but they'll try to remove what prevents that behavior.

Edited August 25, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[BRKMSN]

Crafting isn't a logical choice for some people because crafting isn't what drew them to the game.

 

Perhaps all a person is interested in is PvP. They don't want to send companions out on missions or burn credits on crafting materials to skill up an ecology of crafters, they want to compete in the next round of PvP. That's their entire focus, that's the only reason they log on.

 

Some people may have other preoccupations with the game other than PvP who also have no desire to craft.

The fastest way from point A to Point B for those players therefore isn't crafting, but burning credits on what they want.

 

I can totally see people in that mindset remaining perpetually averse to crafting regardless how much it might sidestep the entire conversation about inflation. They will continue to do what they've done in the past, which is burn credits. When something's in the way of doing that, such as hyperinflation, they hit the forums and complain. They won't change their behavior, but they'll try to remove what prevents that behavior.

If their thing is to "burn credits" then the solution is to learn how to easily get credits. Once again, the responsibility falls on the individual player to do what's necessary. I don't always want to grind content to gear characters, but I do what is necessary.

[Inyahin]

i wrote a post about this; but i think i decided not to press submit. i couldn't find it at any rate.

 

but the biggest thing they can do is allow sales on the GTN to match the character credit cap.

 

any off-GTN player-to-player sale is not going to have the GTN tax applied to it;

And i'd imagine that the GTN tax is one of the biggest money sinks in the game.

 

And as more items get more expensive and don't get listed, and by not allowing players to list their most expensive items more and more credits are not going to be removed from the ecconomy.

[WHTJunior]

I don't know that either of these would truly affect inflation. GTN goblins don't care about credit sinks having anything to do with endgame, or really anything that doesn't directly affect their credit accounts. Deleting 0s only temporarily hinders their customers, but they'll still wait for them to acquire 3B for an unstable arbiter saber.

 

The only real way to combat inflation is via supply and demand. Take the items that are considered rare, or overly expensive, and propagate them into the economy. I always thought they should extend the Flash Sale into the GTN, but ideally, these would then be BoP/BoA versions of the items, so that they cannot be resold. Or even change every direct-purchase item on the Cartel Market BoP/BoA. Maybe do both. That way, they only go to players who really need them, and those items are no longer worth the inflated prices advertised by resellers.

[Chryptyk]

 

any off-GTN player-to-player sale is not going to have the GTN tax applied to it;

And i'd imagine that the GTN tax is one of the biggest money sinks in the game.

 

And as more items get more expensive and don't get listed, and by not allowing players to list their most expensive items more and more credits are not going to be removed from the ecconomy.

 

There needs to be some kind of tax for p2p trades. It has to be large, say 25%. It would discourage them, and for those that still do them, it would take credits out of the system. The bigger the trade, the more credits it would take out of circulation. So either you pay out a lot, lower prices to list on GTN where taxes are lower, go to barter, or buy CCs to get what you want.

[ZUHFB]

buy CCs to get what you want.

 

Sounds P2W to me.

[Chryptyk]

Sounds P2W to me.

 

The whole point of the CM is to buy CCs to get what you want. So your objection is relevant how? EAware wants to make money. The CM is where they get the bulk of their money from.

[HypSpec]

Sounds P2W to me.

 

The CM is not P2W but rather P2 look good and increase quality of life. With the exception of character boost or token, there really isn't anything that makes your character 'stronger' right?

[SteveTheCynic]

The CM is not P2W but rather P2 look good and increase quality of life. With the exception of character boost or token, there really isn't anything that makes your character 'stronger' right?

Just the gold augments that you buy with the credits that you get for selling CM stuff.

[xordevoreaux]

Just the gold augments that you buy with the credits that you get for selling CM stuff.

 

Hypsec's assessment of the P2 Look good nature of the Cartel Market is 100% on the mark.

There are no purchasable gold augments on the CM, and to conflate a currency conversion to credits via peddling in CM goods on the GTN to acquire such contends nothing.

 

Zero purchases on the CM puts anyone heads above anyone else.

Edited August 31, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[bluehufsa]

In order to eliminate inflation, some radical measures could be applied, even if for a few weeks the forum will be crowded with negative feedback posts and topics like "Bye im out". From my experience, people say they leave, but they always come back after some time.

What I would do if I were in charge :

 

- all CM items would be Bound on Pickup, with no possibility to be sold, if people want nice things , they should buy CC and not credits from shady sites.

- eliminate hyperpacks to prevent doubles ( sets of armor, mounts and so on)

- limit the credits a player can have in their inventory and legacy bank to 100 mil

- limit the credits a guild can have to 1 bil

- change the requirements for guild creation, to stop people from creating empty guilds and stock credits

- immediately ban players who send/receive multiple mail posts with 100 mil credits attached .

- increase the credit cap for F2P and preferred status players to 10 mil, to give them a fair chance of purchasing materials or crafted items from GTN

 

I'm aware this will displease a lot of players, but the current situation is a dire one and some order has to be enforced, even at the cost of a few players leaving the game for good.

[ZUHFB]

In order to eliminate inflation, some radical measures could be applied, even if for a few weeks the forum will be crowded with negative feedback posts and topics like "Bye im out". From my experience, people say they leave, but they always come back after some time.

What I would do if I were in charge :

 

- all CM items would be Bound on Pickup, with no possibility to be sold, if people want nice things , they should buy CC and not credits from shady sites.

- eliminate hyperpacks to prevent doubles ( sets of armor, mounts and so on)

- limit the credits a player can have in their inventory and legacy bank to 100 mil

- limit the credits a guild can have to 1 bil

- change the requirements for guild creation, to stop people from creating empty guilds and stock credits

- immediately ban players who send/receive multiple mail posts with 100 mil credits attached .

- increase the credit cap for F2P and preferred status players to 10 mil, to give them a fair chance of purchasing materials or crafted items from GTN

 

I'm aware this will displease a lot of players, but the current situation is a dire one and some order has to be enforced, even at the cost of a few players leaving the game for good.

 

watch me send 100m to you lmao... great solution /s

[bluehufsa]

watch me send 100m to you lmao... great solution /s

 

No thank you, i'm happy with the credits i have at the moment, 25 mil. But i accept other donations, such as D5 Mantis toy pet or a bird companion

[xordevoreaux]

all CM items would be Bound on Pickup, with no possibility to be sold,

Good luck convincing Bioware to remove one of its most profitable game store profit avenues.

 

Players converting cc to credits by buying CM items and hawking them off the GTN isn't something Bioware is motivated to stop.

[SteveTheCynic]

No thank you, i'm happy with the credits i have at the moment, 25 mil. But i accept other donations, such as D5 Mantis toy pet or a bird companion

Not quite. If there's a ban for receiving multiple mails with 100m in (and above all if it's automated)(1), then Z and his N buddies will each mail you 100m. If N exceeds the automatic-ban threshold, that's it, you're banned.

 

If it's not an automatic ban, how *would* it work? (That is, how would the ban be triggered?)

 

(1) Remember, this idea was in *your* post, not Z's.

[Chryptyk]

Not quite. If there's a ban for receiving multiple mails with 100m in (and above all if it's automated)(1), then Z and his N buddies will each mail you 100m. If N exceeds the automatic-ban threshold, that's it, you're banned.

 

If it's not an automatic ban, how *would* it work? (That is, how would the ban be triggered?)

 

(1) Remember, this idea was in *your* post, not Z's.

 

I thought i heard there was some kinda thing with mails containing over a certain amount that it gets flagged somehow and doesn't go through. Do credit sellers send multiple mails to a toon? Or do they do multiple in person trades? I don't know how the process works.

[SteveTheCynic]

I thought i heard there was some kinda thing with mails containing over a certain amount that it gets flagged somehow and doesn't go through. Do credit sellers send multiple mails to a toon? Or do they do multiple in person trades? I don't know how the process works.

I don't know either. The only automatic thing that I know of for sure is the automatic chat squelch if N people (ten, I think) /report you.