You need to do something against throwers in GSF

[Spikanor]

@BRKMSN

 

not forget to add also that thanks to then destroying the fun for the players that play GSF or PVP for real and try to win and enjoy it are also been hurt by the chance's the developers have make with the rewards thanks to the once's that only care about farming tech fragments and destroy the fun for others means now that the basic normal player pay's also the price for there action.

so i think the choose the developers have make by lowering the tech fragments reward is not the best choose.

 

i think there most focus on only hurting the people that like to destroy the fun in GSF by increse the respawn time after 5 self destroy's and after that it only become's longer and soon of later there will be kickt out automatic by the AFK system.

[Screaming_Ziva]

I decided to try out GSF to gear and, I'm not only bad, I'm laughably bad. I can't hit anything, can't evade anything, and constantly get killed and die. I'm sure to some it looks like I am probably a "thrower" but I can assure you that I am not. I don't know how many times I have hit my evade skill only to shoot forward into a wall or asteroid only to kill myself.

[DakhathKilrathi]

I decided to try out GSF to gear and, I'm not only bad, I'm laughably bad. I can't hit anything, can't evade anything, and constantly get killed and die. I'm sure to some it looks like I am probably a "thrower" but I can assure you that I am not. I don't know how many times I have hit my evade skill only to shoot forward into a wall or asteroid only to kill myself.

 

Broken record mode engaged: we can tell the difference. I promise you we can. It's not hard at all to see who is trying and is just bad.

 

I also promise that yes, people are definitely throwing for rewards and changing rewards didn't fix the problem: https://i.imgur.com/AFHH5p1.png

 

Name censored to protect the guilty because for some reason I have to.

[DakhathKilrathi]

They claim they can see the difference between a thrower and newbie, but it's pretty obvious they can't. Why else would several people post in this thread saying "I know it may look like throwing, but I'm not...". It's because they are inexperienced, and people are openly attacking new players both here and in game.

 

We can, though? At least anyone who's any good can. And no, your average 10 kill player who spends the match whining about their team probably can't tell, but they aren't any good, either. I again encourage people to check out the unofficial GSF community discord, as you'll see an entirely different tone there about new players.

 

We get that it's hard. We go out of our way to try to help people with that initial difficulty curve. Did you at least even check the GSF forums here? Same tone there.

 

And yeah, I absolutely can tell if someone was trying but just bad. Easiest way to tell is to look at how many times they even tried to take a shot. I also go back and look at the chat log. If someone only ever self destructed, it happened after every spawn wave, and they never fired a shot? lol they were throwing no question about it.

 

Someone who SDed a lot but had a longer time between them and fired a bunch of shots but didn't land any? New and needs help. If I have any doubt at all I go find the person in question and follow them for a few seconds to verify, because again, it's dead simple to spot if you know how the game and the scoreboard works.

 

See again https://i.imgur.com/AFHH5p1.png because there's no question at all that there are people who intentionally throw games and should be dealt with. Here's their hit%: https://i.imgur.com/qCjCzY6.png

Edited April 27, 2022 by DakhathKilrathi

[BRKMSN]

I decided to try out GSF to gear and, I'm not only bad, I'm laughably bad. I can't hit anything, can't evade anything, and constantly get killed and die. I'm sure to some it looks like I am probably a "thrower" but I can assure you that I am not. I don't know how many times I have hit my evade skill only to shoot forward into a wall or asteroid only to kill myself.

 

Learning the game, for me, involved just focusing on 1 ship type at a time. You will get better with experience. Improving my accuracy percentage required watching some of the other players' videos to see what the really good pilots were doing that I was not.

 

Everything in GSF is just numbers - the same as in the game. Your characters in SWTOR have accuracy stats as well as stats that can decrease the enemies chances to land an attack. The same thing applies in GSF. Different weapons in GSF do damage differently and range can be a big factor with blasters (for both accuracy and damage). You also have crits in GSF (just like in the main game). The most important part of GSF is managing your power pools. There is no point in firing blasters if the target is out of range or not in the targeting arc.

 

My recommendation is to upgrade a strike fighter first while you are learning everything. Heavy Blasters have a long range which will help you and cluster missiles have a short lock on timer that can be shortened even more with the correct upgrades and crew members. Pick an engine maneuver (like barrel roll) that doesn't change your direction and that will make self-destructs happen less frequently.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

Broken record mode engaged: we can tell the difference. I promise you we can. It's not hard at all to see who is trying and is just bad.

 

I also promise that yes, people are definitely throwing for rewards and changing rewards didn't fix the problem: https://i.imgur.com/AFHH5p1.png

 

Name censored to protect the guilty because for some reason I have to.

 

The problem is that the only reward they changed was the Tech Fragment yield. They slightly lowered GSF's weekly yield and buffed other content. GSF is still better for both Conquest and gear than most other content, only beaten out in gearing specifically by VM/NiM Ops, and it's still regularly featured in GS2. So if you want to gear up efficiently and you don't play Ops, then GSF is the only sensible path. Flashpoints, Warzones, and Solo aren't even really in the discussion, Warzones take a lot longer (both the content itself and the weekly), and Flashpoints/Solo don't give out purple gear at all (and Flashpoints take a lot longer too), so it's GSF or Ops right now. GSF then has the added benefit that its Tech Fragment yield, even after the nerf, is still great. So, for instance, for a solo player right now that wants to gear up, GSF gives them the best gear they can get, the best conquest points for time spent, and a great amount of Tech Fragments. For that player, it's a no brainer what content they're gonna play if they're looking for gear.

 

This is the system Bioware setup. The intent of having gear gated off by content type was to get players that don't want to play a specific type of content into that content by locking away rewards they want in that content. Pretty sure this was explicitly stated by one of the developers. This is the result of that. You have players that don't want to be there playing GSF solely for gear, and unfortunately some of them are taking that as their excuse to ruin the fun for others.

 

Those people should still be dealt with, don't take this as me excusing their behavior, but you'd have a lot less people like that there if those same rewards were available in their preferred content as well. Which hopefully highlights the other piece of my opinion here, GSF doesn't need nerfs. I feel like its situation was the exact opposite in 6.0 (relatively unrewarding in terms of TF and gear, only lifted up later in the expansion cycle by Conquest and Galactic Seasons) and there's no reason to go back to that. But other content needs to be rewarding too. The gearing system needs to be reworked and you'd start seeing a lot less of these types of players in GSF.

 

Ideally Bioware will do both. Punish the players that are doing this and take it as a lesson to then go fix the rewards in other content that they gutted with 7.0 so those types of players would play a gamemode they're willing to play instead of ruining the fun in GSF.

Edited April 27, 2022 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[BRKMSN]

The problem is that the only reward they changed was the Tech Fragment yield. They slightly lowered GSF's weekly yield and buffed other content. GSF is still better for both Conquest and gear than most other content, only beaten out in gearing specifically by VM/NiM Ops, and it's still regularly featured in GS2. So if you want to gear up efficiently and you don't play Ops, then GSF is the only sensible path. Flashpoints, Warzones, and Solo aren't even really in the discussion, Warzones take a lot longer (both the content itself and the weekly), and Flashpoints/Solo don't give out purple gear at all (and Flashpoints take a lot longer too), so it's GSF or Ops right now. GSF then has the added benefit that its Tech Fragment yield, even after the nerf, is still great. So, for instance, for a solo player right now that wants to gear up, GSF gives them the best gear they can get, the best conquest points for time spent, and a great amount of Tech Fragments. For that player, it's a no brainer what content they're gonna play if they're looking for gear.

 

This is the system Bioware setup. The intent of having gear gated off by content type was to get players that don't want to play a specific type of content into that content by locking away rewards they want in that content. Pretty sure this was explicitly stated by one of the developers. This is the result of that. You have players that don't want to be there playing GSF solely for gear, and unfortunately some of them are taking that as their excuse to ruin the fun for others.

 

Those people should still be dealt with, don't take this as me excusing their behavior, but you'd have a lot less people like that there if those same rewards were available in their preferred content as well. Which hopefully highlights the other piece of my opinion here, GSF doesn't need nerfs. I feel like its situation was the exact opposite in 6.0 (relatively unrewarding in terms of TF and gear, only lifted up later in the expansion cycle by Conquest and Galactic Seasons) and there's no reason to go back to that. But other content needs to be rewarding too. The gearing system needs to be reworked and you'd start seeing a lot less of these types of players in GSF.

 

Ideally Bioware will do both. Punish the players that are doing this and take it as a lesson to then go fix the rewards in other content that they gutted with 7.0 so those types of players would play a gamemode they're willing to play instead of ruining the fun in GSF.

 

7.0's gearing structure is very odd. It would make more sense if we still used Expertise for PvP. Then they could make the PvP gear go up to 330 like the Nim Ops gear, but it wouldn't be desirable to pure PvEers and they would be doing things they would enjoy more.

[DakhathKilrathi]

 

Those people should still be dealt with, don't take this as me excusing their behavior, but you'd have a lot less people like that there if those same rewards were available in their preferred content as well. Which hopefully highlights the other piece of my opinion here, GSF doesn't need nerfs. I feel like its situation was the exact opposite in 6.0 (relatively unrewarding in terms of TF and gear, only lifted up later in the expansion cycle by Conquest and Galactic Seasons) and there's no reason to go back to that. But other content needs to be rewarding too. The gearing system needs to be reworked and you'd start seeing a lot less of these types of players in GSF.

 

Ideally Bioware will do both. Punish the players that are doing this and take it as a lesson to then go fix the rewards in other content that they gutted with 7.0 so those types of players would play a gamemode they're willing to play instead of ruining the fun in GSF.

 

I don't disagree. Either give people alternatives or at least make it so that you don't get anything if you're not trying. If you can't identify who is and isn't trying, then find alternative solutions because this isn't one.

[illgot]

I don't disagree. Either give people alternatives or at least make it so that you don't get anything if you're not trying. If you can't identify who is and isn't trying, then find alternative solutions because this isn't one.

 

The solution is simple. Like you stated, make rewards equal for all aspects of the game. GSF weekly was so much more lucrative than Unranked weekly. Even if they had the same difficulty in completing the weeklies, GSF still has much better rewards.

 

Sadly Bioware reduced the GSF weekly to 850 tech frags and the unranked weekly was boosted to 1500 tech frags. That may fix some of the issues in the laziest way possible.

 

The new system of awarding a single point for a loss in unranked but still requiring 12 points was a ludicrous change. On average I finished the weekly unranked in maybe 4-10 games. It really depended on my luck. So this doesn't change anything for most players.

 

The only people this new system helps in unranked are the people afk farming or the players who completely ignore objectives and have zero understanding on how unranked pvp games work; the type of players who lose 12 games in a row.

 

Suggestions were made to base points on earning medals, aka awarding points for participation, but of course that system was too complex to implement and completely ignored. A system based on participation would have eliminated self destruction and people not even bothering to spawn in GSF as well as awarded people on the losing team a few points just for playing the game.

Edited April 28, 2022 by illgot

[DakhathKilrathi]

The solution is simple. Like you stated, make rewards equal for all aspects of the game. GSF weekly was so much more lucrative than Unranked weekly. Even if they had the same difficulty in completing the weeklies, GSF still has much better rewards.

 

Sadly Bioware reduced the GSF weekly to 850 tech frags and the unranked weekly was boosted to 1500 tech frags. That may fix some of the issues in the laziest way possible.

 

The new system of awarding a single point for a loss in unranked but still requiring 12 points was a ludicrous change. On average I finished the weekly unranked in maybe 4-10 games. It really depended on my luck. So this doesn't change anything for most players.

 

The only people this new system helps in unranked are the people afk farming or the players who completely ignore objectives and have zero understanding on how unranked pvp games work. The type of players who lose 12 games in a row.

 

Suggestions were made to base points on earning medals, aka awarding points for participation, but of course that system was too complex to implement and completely ignored. A system based on participation would have eliminated self destruction and people not even bothering to spawn in GSF as well as awarded people on the losing team a few points just for playing the game.

 

Not that they're likely to ask us, but I have no doubt that the GSF community could come up with a list of easy to hit targets for new and experienced players alike. I also agree that nonparticipation just shouldn't give rewards. Until they fix that system any other changes won't help.

[KumbayaGOD]

https://i.imgur.com/ZjlMwMX.png

Throwing the match in GSF is far too easy with absolutely no repercussions. This guy in the screenshot has been ruining matches for weeks now and continues to do so every every week after the mission reset.

The fact that there is no incentive to play a match if you see a certain name is ridiculous, I reported this guy after every single match and nothing has happened so far since he is still "playing".

 

And no, this is not a "learning player", this is simply a thrower who likes to destroy the game, you are not learning by self destructing 25+ times in a match for several weeks.

Vote kick apparently doesn't work because he is "participating" lol

 

i dont see a problem here

[Muckbeast]

I also promise that yes, people are definitely throwing for rewards and changing rewards didn't fix the problem: https://i.imgur.com/AFHH5p1.png

 

Name censored to protect the guilty because for some reason I have to.

 

Great screenshot because everything the censored person said is true.

 

In 7.0 we have a gear system where the overwhelmingly most popular and most played type of content (story/solo/conquest) has been absolutely dumped on, tossed aside, and brutally disrespected by the devs.

• Capped at trash 326 green gear.
  
• Tech frag earning rate about 1/100th of PvP/GSF. Every character needs 90,000+ tech frags for implants/tacticals. That's literally 3,000 planetary heroic missions, or 90 GSF weeklies.
  

 

Your guy in the screenshot says he has 11 characters. He needs 1 million tech fragments.. His options:

• 33,000 planetary heroic missions.
  
• 990 GSF weeklies.
  

 

The tech frag cost for implants and tacticals is absurd (they should be saved in collections). But there's clearly one viable way, and one virtually impossbile way.

 

What do you expect people to do?

 

They don't even want to be in GSF and PvP. They want to be enjoying the content they've loved for 10 years of playing SWTOR. All of a sudden, 7.0 drops and they can no longer get top gear from PvE/story/solo/conquest type content. They have literally ZERO hope of earning enough tech frags for the implants and tacticals that are vital. What options do such people have?

 

Furthermore, they have to do GSF/PvP for purple 326 gear since its the only decent option for something better than 326 green garbage.

 

For them it is basically survival to just gut their way through it, doing content they hate, holding their nose in misery, begging for the pain to stop until its over.

 

Furthermore, you expect them to "keep trying!" like the silly NPCs bark at you in a 3 cap loss when its 900-300, or a deathmatch when its 30-2? Seriously? To what end?

 

Those of you who love PvP/GSF say "then don't play it!" Really? Imagine if the only way to reasonably upgrade your ship was to grind 20 hours of weekly planetary heroics every week? How happy would you be? Wouldn't you do every possible thing you could to get it over with as painlessly as possible?

[DakhathKilrathi]

Wouldn't you do every possible thing you could to get it over with as painlessly as possible?

 

Not at the expense of someone else's enjoyment of the game, no. You can think Bioware is wrong here (which they are, no argument here) without thinking this behavior is okay. Two things can both be bad.

 

What do I expect people to do? Make an effort for the game mode they intentionally walked into, because it's not our fault that Bioware designed it badly and we shouldn't have to pay for it.

 

I really hope Bioware changes it so that you get nothing if you don't participate, and the offer I made before stands: I'm happy to give some useful metrics for participation so you're not leaving someone new out.

Edited April 29, 2022 by DakhathKilrathi

[BRKMSN]

What do you expect people to do?

I expect people to try. It takes half the time if they win. If this is all about doing things the fastest way possible, then it makes no sense to have to queue twice as much for content you don't enjoy. It's that simple.

[ZUHFB]

I expect people to try. It takes half the time if they win. If this is all about doing things the fastest way possible, then it makes no sense to have to queue twice as much for content you don't enjoy. It's that simple.

 

100% correct. Also there is another way: regs. Regs where always a viable way even when GSF was considered non plus ultra. So you aren't even forced to GSF at all, multiple people in my MM raiding teams geared via PvP exclusively and where just as fast.

 

OPs gearing takes forever because it goes the highest, nothing wrong with that.

[kimiko_tomiyama]

Speaking here as someone that is so gloriously bad at GSF I’ve been accused of throwing a match (prematurely ending a rout a couple times yes, not trying when we could still possibly win, no).

 

I have wondered why there doesn’t seem to be a ranked GSF. Unranked WZs seem to be full of people like me, doing their best with mixed results. Every so often you get a ringer crew and it’s a slaughter one way or the other. But at least I can nearly always get the 8 medal goal on healer and ranged DPS. It feels feel like I’m actually doing something productive. This is, I think, because the pros are playing ranked and I have an actual chance.

 

I did GSF during season 1 because sometimes it was the only way to get the requisite points. Season 2 has thankfully had enough options I haven’t had to suffer through it. Frankly, unless I have to I never will. Unlike unranked WZs where I feel “It’s onerous, but I’m accomplishing something.” GSF isn’t fun or feeling like I’ve accomplished something.

[DakhathKilrathi]

(prematurely ending a rout a couple times yes,

 

This is throwing. You're intentionally losing. Doesn't matter if it's one-sided or not, and I've personally backfilled games that were "lost" and turned them around. You can't do that when someone on your team gives up and rams a wall repeatedly. Please stop. If you get accused of throwing when you do that, the accusation is correct.

Edited April 29, 2022 by DakhathKilrathi

[Shredius]

 

Those of you who love PvP/GSF say "then don't play it!" Really? Imagine if the only way to reasonably upgrade your ship was to grind 20 hours of weekly planetary heroics every week? How happy would you be? Wouldn't you do every possible thing you could to get it over with as painlessly as possible?

 

If I had to do heroics to get good gear until my eyes bleed and my fingers fall off, it would be up to me if and how I do it. If I half-@ss my heroics, it only affects me. if you half-@ss a team activity, it affects the entire group.

 

Best solution for everyone that feels "forced" to do something they don't like is to not play, games are meant to be fun and enjoyable. If a depleting playerbase doesn't make it clear that no one likes the current gearing system then nothing will.

[Pricia]

If I had to do heroics to get good gear until my eyes bleed and my fingers fall off, it would be up to me if and how I do it. If I half-@ss my heroics, it only affects me. if you half-@ss a team activity, it affects the entire group.

 

Best solution for everyone that feels "forced" to do something they don't like is to not play, games are meant to be fun and enjoyable. If a depleting playerbase doesn't make it clear that no one likes the current gearing system then nothing will.

 

Exactly.

 

I don't waste people's time going afk in ops while everyone else clears the content, because I don't like ops. Why would people feel it's ok to do that in GSF?

[Nickodemous]

OMG....now we worried about gsf? Nobody played, EVER, now we worried about this?

[Linuxizer]

I enjoy playing GSF.

 

The players who are new and not contributing much do not bother me. I was the same in the beginning, and if I ever try ground pvp or veteran mode flashpoints I would be useless too. I want to see the new players improve eventually and provide healthy competition, but this is up to them.

 

The players who self-destruct 15 to 30 times a match are ruining the game for other players and need to be banned. No excuses.

[Pricia]

I will never stop bumping this.

 

My team won by 2 points because some (insert very rude word here) decided to sabotage us. He self destructed 10 times, while going afk on respawn.

 

That is not ok. I reported him, and I think at least two other people did at all.

 

Those people need to be permanently banned from GSF.

[kimiko_tomiyama]

This is throwing. You're intentionally losing. Doesn't matter if it's one-sided or not, and I've personally backfilled games that were "lost" and turned them around. You can't do that when someone on your team gives up and rams a wall repeatedly. Please stop. If you get accused of throwing when you do that, the accusation is correct.

 

in both cases my team was losing 47+kills to <20 If you can turn that around, then I am truly impressed. And if ramming the wall intentionally once makes me a cheater.. then so be it. Not that it's the first time I was accused of cheating (because yes I am that bad at it) Pretty sure though you don't have to worry. Unless they return to a season 1 format where you HAVE to do GSF I won't bother.

[Pricia]

Well I reported three more today. It's just ridiculous.

 

Also lost a game because someone was afk and people took 10 minutes to kick him. We lost by one point...

 

I think I'm done with GSF, it's just too frustrating at this point. I'm just too pissed at people who basically don't care about other people's time... It's just completely selfish.

 

It's still a damn shame and the fact that GSF is the main way of getting CQ points is basically what is going to stop me from renewing my sub, at least until 7.1 finally get out. I have two weeks left on my sub so it shouldn't be too hard to get CQ done on fewer toons without having to bother with GSF once it's over. If I can even bother (I'm downloading FF14 right now).

 

Great job BW and leeches, you did it!

Edited May 6, 2022 by Pricia

[ZUHFB]

Well I reported three more today. It's just ridiculous.

 

Also lost a game because someone was afk and people took 10 minutes to kick him. We lost by one point...

 

I think I'm done with GSF, it's just too frustrating at this point. I'm just too pissed at people who basically don't care about other people's time... It's just completely selfish.

 

It's still a damn shame and the fact that GSF is the main way of getting CQ points is basically what is going to stop me from renewing my sub, at least until 7.1 finally get out. I have two weeks left on my sub so it shouldn't be too hard to get CQ done on fewer toons without having to bother with GSF once it's over. If I can even bother (I'm downloading FF14 right now).

 

Great job BW and leeches, you did it!

 

Why didn't you score that point? Can't you see how that's a much healthier way to look at things? You make 1 small mistake and the ENTIRE GAME is your fault, you could've carried harder but you didn't - it's your fault not the games not the afkers, why not carry him? You will NEVER and this is a promise, NEVER get a team in any pvp mode - you and only you can be the deciding factor.