Dunzo Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) This game is the apex of linear MMO design. I mean, you literally have people telling you to "go to planet X and Y right now". Whether that's your thing or not is up to you. Personally I find linear is good for casual players because it's easier to progress with less time invested. Big, open sandbox games can be a real time sink - but the fun factor is increased about ten fold. So why not go sandbox? Too much time and effort? No. This was a misjudgement of the MMO market. Likely conceived well into WoW's prime around 2007. A bunch of developers and producers sitting at a conference table saying "That WoW game is #1, lets do what they're doing, but with the Bioware touch" It makes sense fiscally, but with 2012 around the corner, WoW is outdated and this game along with it. I'm sure many would disagree, but it is. So all I ask is Bioware, make a shift to a more open game. Give more choices, allow for more customization both of character and story. You can have a solid linear story with huge open-world potential with space and Star Wars. More open = more to do = more replay value = more fun = happier customers. Makes sense to me. Edited December 30, 2011 by Dunzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
origional Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 It was easier for them to dress Mass Effect up in a Star Wars skin than it was create a proper MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salryc Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 MMOs are never created to be just creative. They are made to make money. With the games out there, a developer can get enough statistics to see that the market population (people who pay money to play these games) all gravitate towards one specific style of game play. The theme park, class based, quest filled, minimal grind, easy to get started in MMO, such as WOW, Rift, etc. Games with harder learning curves (i.e. SWG) tend to have rabid fans, yet fewer overall consumers. Games with harder skills (GA, PS, etc) tend to have fickle consumers (on again, off again subs) with small numbers. When you are looking at borrowing millions from a group of people, you have to have numbers that look as if they will make a return that is large. In layman's terms, the investors aren't gamers, they are money makers, and they will demand a model that will make money. So, are you really shocked that we keep seeing the same thing over and over? We keep buying it. With all that said, I'm a fan of the sand box, skill based, open world style of game. Yet, I'm also aware that I'm in the minority, and that logically, my favored style of game will not become popular until people start putting money into the "smaller" versions (which sadly are not as good quality). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykologist Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Because this isn't SWG2, and Sandboxes are niche, and normally not profitable. Hell, even SWG went the WoW route with NGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleeha Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 This game is the apex of linear MMO design. I mean, you literally have people telling you to "go to planet X and Y right now". Whether that's your thing or not is up to you. Personally I find linear is good for casual players because it's easier to progress with less time invested. Big, open sandbox games can be a real time sink - but the fun factor is increased about ten fold. So why not go sandbox? Too much time and effort? No. This was a misjudgement of the MMO market. Likely conceived well into WoW's prime around 2007. A bunch of developers and producers sitting at a conference table saying "That WoW game is #1, lets do what they're doing, but with the Bioware touch" It makes sense fiscally, but with 2012 around the corner, WoW is outdated and this game along with it. I'm sure many would disagree, but it is. So all I ask is Bioware, make a shift to a more open game. Give more choices, allow for more customization both of character and story. You can have a solid linear story with huge open-world potential with space and Star Wars. More open = more to do = more replay value = more fun = happier customers. Makes sense to me. You do realize for example that in WoW you have the exact same thing? In SWTOR we have the NPC's telling us to go to X and Y, in WoW we use addons which do the same thing. You know about addons right? The things that people are crying and whining over that this game doesn't have that WoW does. So please stop with this non-sense as if this is the ONLY damn game which tells a player what to do and where to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaltom Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I left a sandbox game to come to TOR with the knowledge that it wasn't a sandbox. I really think it comes down to $$$$$. Themeparks tend to bring in more revenue than sandbox MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunzo Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Because this isn't SWG2, and Sandboxes are niche, and normally not profitable. Hell, even SWG went the WoW route with NGE. Sony did it wrong. They failed to polish their game and make it easy for the average customer. Then in a desperate attempt to clone WoW, they practically injected fail into their game at a lethal dose. And now SWG is shut down. All it took was a better company to do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicain Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 This game is the apex of linear MMO design. I mean, you literally have people telling you to "go to planet X and Y right now". Whether that's your thing or not is up to you. Personally I find linear is good for casual players because it's easier to progress with less time invested. Big, open sandbox games can be a real time sink - but the fun factor is increased about ten fold. So why not go sandbox? Too much time and effort? No. This was a misjudgement of the MMO market. Likely conceived well into WoW's prime around 2007. A bunch of developers and producers sitting at a conference table saying "That WoW game is #1, lets do what they're doing, but with the Bioware touch" It makes sense fiscally, but with 2012 around the corner, WoW is outdated and this game along with it. I'm sure many would disagree, but it is. So all I ask is Bioware, make a shift to a more open game. Give more choices, allow for more customization both of character and story. You can have a solid linear story with huge open-world potential with space and Star Wars. More open = more to do = more replay value = more fun = happier customers. Makes sense to me. The main quest is linear, which as a main storyline is kind of should be. But whenever you hit planet X, you can choose to branch off and do OTHER things, or stick to the main storyline. You're never going to get an open sandbox world like say, EQ ever again, as there is a desire for a story to be apart of the gameplay which isn't a bad idea. The only real limit on this game is what you want to do. If you let yourself just follow the story line then yeah, you'll be disappointed, but if you come online and actually free think and go "I'd like to do, x, y or z" and go do it. People are going to resist any sort of character specific story as they then have this issue, guess we should all just go play WoW where there is a world story but your characters existance is trivial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinoplat Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 It was easier for them to dress Mass Effect up in a Star Wars skin than it was create a proper MMO. +1 this sentiment. @OP - they still could make a few worlds that are open world PvP and truly sandbox. They could give us 5-10 planets that don't have story line quests attached to them. These planets would be run by guilds that build mini cities on them and fight over the local resources. Imagine EvE but where the players run around fighting with blasters and lightsabers instead of ships. EvE had a system control and they fought over the moon goo. Allowing planets to have special resources that could be used in crafting would also go a long way to fix crafting. The Star Wars universe is crying out for a place where guilds can be the political powerhouses, and where the factions of Empire and Republic are a side burner quest/raid because my guilds not crushing someone tonight, that determine the fate of an entire planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belialle Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Sandbox MMOs are a niche market. Apparently, themepark MMOs are where the big money is. I would be happy if they added more sandbox elements to the game though. Sorry that this game isn't SWG2. As for myself, I like the game for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papazooki Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 +1 this sentiment. @OP - they still could make a few worlds that are open world PvP and truly sandbox. They could give us 5-10 planets that don't have story line quests attached to them. These planets would be run by guilds that build mini cities on them and fight over the local resources. Imagine EvE but where the players run around fighting with blasters and lightsabers instead of ships. EvE had a system control and they fought over the moon goo. Allowing planets to have special resources that could be used in crafting would also go a long way to fix crafting. The Star Wars universe is crying out for a place where guilds can be the political powerhouses, and where the factions of Empire and Republic are a side burner quest/raid because my guilds not crushing someone tonight, that determine the fate of an entire planet. Totally disagree. This game is fine without a sandbox type environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinoplat Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 MMOs are never created to be just creative. They are made to make money. Make money yes, but they don't need to be greedy. A game that takes a few million to make (which would turn out a great game) and has a few hundred thousand subs would make money. The problem is that game companies want to have the millions of subs that WoW has, and they won't take anything less. That's greed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraxture Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Should of gone Sandbox?Like the failing MMOs like Darkfall and Mortal did?Hmmm.. sure... Edited December 30, 2011 by Fraxture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykologist Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Sony did it wrong. They failed to polish their game and make it easy for the average customer. Then in a desperate attempt to clone WoW, they practically injected fail into their game at a lethal dose. And now SWG is shut down. All it took was a better company to do it right. What's "right" though? Has there been a successful sandbox game? (Excluding EVE, which is also niche) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudanie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 +1 this sentiment. @OP - they still could make a few worlds that are open world PvP and truly sandbox. They could give us 5-10 planets that don't have story line quests attached to them. These planets would be run by guilds that build mini cities on them and fight over the local resources. Imagine EvE but where the players run around fighting with blasters and lightsabers instead of ships. EvE had a system control and they fought over the moon goo. Allowing planets to have special resources that could be used in crafting would also go a long way to fix crafting. The Star Wars universe is crying out for a place where guilds can be the political powerhouses, and where the factions of Empire and Republic are a side burner quest/raid because my guilds not crushing someone tonight, that determine the fate of an entire planet. Your ideas would be about the only thing that would bring me back after my sub expires. Great, great ideas that would go a LONG ways to luring in/back those of us who are not happy with the extreme themepark-ness of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandrax Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 What's "right" though? Has there been a successful sandbox game? (Excluding EVE, which is also niche) UO was a huge success for it's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appletaz Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You all use these terms freely, and I'm not sure what they mean. What is a sandbox and what is a theme park? What are the differences?? Please tell me! I want to be educated !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambrogino Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Because this isn't SWG2, and Sandboxes are niche, and normally not profitable. Hell, even SWG went the WoW route with NGE. It was profitable, they, meaning SOE decisded on the change. Eve online was and still is successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I loathe and detest sandbox MMO's they are a Niche market and full of fail. Trying to turn this game into a Sandbox is about as intellegent as SOE trying to turn their SWG sandbox into WoW with NGE and would cause the exact same revolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogenetic Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I would love to see another Star Wars Sandbox done right, but fortunately this is a great Star Wars theme park. I'll stick with this for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinoplat Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Totally disagree. This game is fine without a sandbox type environment. For you the game is fine. For a lot of players we want a Skyrim openness but in an MMO and under the Star Wars name/galaxy. True Open World PvP can only happen under a sandbox environment where guilds can build their own cities and guilds fight each other over resources. I'm so sick of game companies being greedy and trying to cater to the PvE crowd. Yes I said it, I hate PvE. If BioWare really wanted to go out on a limb, they could make a second game that takes every art asset they have now, all the original code and make a great PvP game based on a sandbox genre game; and it would make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairMagpie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) [...]It makes sense fiscally, but with 2012 around the corner, WoW is outdated and this game along with it. I'm sure many would disagree, but it is. WoW was declared outdated at release. I think this "outdated" thing ceased to work for WoW since a while ago. Sandbox-MMOs and I only have EVE-Online as reference, tend to be less attractive because people tend to favour the 'sink time into your character and be rewarded' over 'accept some risk and you hopefully rewarded at one point in time' thing. Also people like guidance more, sandboxes require out of the box thinking and some healthy levels of self-initiative which would reflect some real life characteristics alot of people simply do not possess. Sandboxes have their niches and are fine, but for mass-marketing they are a difficult thing to kick off. Edited December 30, 2011 by ArmchairMagpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xploits Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 This is Starwars not Azeroth. It much easier to have a sandbox when you have a single planet. Can even imagine how sucky it would be if each area and planet were the size of even half of WOW's world? I agree something s could be done to make the world feel more open, but I don't thin free reign in game based in the Galaxy is very easy to sandbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zironic Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 WoW was declared outdated at release. I think this "outdated" thing ceased to work for WoW since a while ago. Sandbox-MMOs and I only have EVE-Online as reference, tend to be less attractive because people tend to favour the 'sink time into your character and be rewarded' over 'accept some risk and you hopefully rewarded at one point in time' thing. Also people like guidance more, sandboxes require out of the box thinking and some healthy levels of self-initiative which would reflect some real life characteristics alot of people simply do not possess. Sandboxes have their niches and are fine, but for mass-marketing they are a difficult thing to kick off. Eh, I think it's more simple then that. Most people already have a life, they're not very interested in getting a second virtual one. Games are meant to be played as entertainment, you log in for a few hours, kill some stuff, steal their loot and just relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinoplat Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You all use these terms freely, and I'm not sure what they mean. What is a sandbox and what is a theme park? What are the differences?? Please tell me! I want to be educated !!! Sandbox - a world/server where the players create the content Themepark - the game is pre-made and you go from line to line to ride the rides over and over again. Good sandbox games give the players the ability to build, like in Shadowbane or EvE, where themepark games give you all the content and expect you to do it there way. Most themepark games tell you how to play the game. I'm in favor of sandbox because it gives the players more control over the persistent game world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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