THE INVASION OF THE PVERs and the death of my PVP guild

[Vallation]

I will list the chain of events that lead to PVER invasion:

 

1) Thyrsian gear does more DPS than Noble Decurion. The latter has more Endurance.

2) GSF currency/mats motivate further grinding of Thyrsian gear.

3) This makes its the go to gear - mainly for underachieving pvers, that will not have NIM gear.

4) PVERs invade regs. Clueless, they watch as some people that actually know what to do strike goals with 3 players, 2 passes in Quesh Huttball. And weeks pass and they are still clueless! They are used to sit on a place and do their "rotations". Period.

5) In the end, they and, now, I and my son, just wait for the luck of getting a team of people who are less clueless... It's extremelly frustrating.

6) Some say that, with time, people will have their gear and the PVP environmant will be better.

 

Sorry, this should have been thought of in game design. Devs should know PVP would be invaded - and destroyed. This does not need PTS.

 

I started a PVP guild. It was losing players fast... One told me "This had everything to be great, but I won't waste my gaming time anymore. Better to get World PVP in another game".

 

What can DEVs do in a short time? Edit Noble Decurion gear? I am desperate here. I introduced my son to MMOs and wanted to have fun with him in summer. And wanted it in Star Wars. It's utterly impossible now.

 

Don't take this as some kid flamming. I sell myself "games" to the military. I know my ****.

 

Lovely if some feedback.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Vallation

[PVPsage]

Hi. I'm sorry to hear about your guild not working out.

 

Getting Open World PVP started again is very hard. Mainly because we don't have enough people interested in doing it. Its a tall order. Even if you managed to form a guild and get a team together for Open World PVP, if you're dominating it due to having a team, that will ALSO be counter productive to making people want to play in that format.

 

On the other side of the coin, all the PVErs joining the PVP and GSF queue has led to quite a lot of frustration from the Player Base. However in the long term this could actually be a good thing, as a PVP player you obviously acknowledge its the 'best' game mode, and in time, some of these people will learn to appreciate that too.

 

If you really want to build a great guild you'll need to be less discriminating towards PVErs trying to learn.

I would suggest refining your guild advert, and actually trying to recruit them and offer training. That is the winning strategy. Condemning them like they're not allowed to be bad at the game mode won't work and its toxic.

[Toonicker]

So what you're saying is you aren't happy with PVE players participating in PVP? I didn't get the memo when I started playing SWTOR that I'm not allowed to PVP even though most of my focus is in PVE, damn I guess I should stop queing for PVP then since I'm not really a true PVPer since I don't do it every day!

 

Thanks for the memo! damn this game has so many rules!!!

[Floplag]

I keep getting told by people how willing better PvPers are to help and work with new players to the genre... then i keep reading and seeing stuff like this.

[Nickodemous]

Why the greatest PVP guild on all servers <Truck You> is very selective. In fact, I have not invited a single person into the most sacred pvp guild on all servers.

 

Ricky Bobby said ~ "If you are not first, your last!"

 

PVE'ers are always last, they can't help it. They a sorry bunch. I find it Ironic that the PVP community is considered the bottom of the barrel in gaming. Not true, PVE'ers will do just about anything to be able to rinse and repeat the same boss over and over again. I have ZERO respect for them.

 

Just kick their asses out and be a little more selective with invites.

[twomuchtime]

If PVP gear had a PVP stat on it, where the gear was stronger in PVP than PVE gear, but not as strong as PVE gear in PVE environments; it would solve the problem of PVErs only doing PVP for the sake of gear. Only people who actually want to PVP for the sake of PVP would que up for unranked and ranked pvp matches. Which would prevent a lot of frustration from both PVPers who get stuck with teammates who really would rather be gearing in PVE, and frustration from PVErs who would rather be doing flashpoints and operations to gear up but find gearing through PVP so much quicker.

[Enticy]

Wow. The level of whiny entitlement in this post is almost surreal. You and people like you are really treating PvP like some holy cathedral, and PvE players are pissing in your sacramental chalice. News flash: you were a PvE player once. I guarantee you didn’t reach max level through PvP alone. Everyone starts somewhere.

 

Besides, PvP needs a shot in the arm. Regs was barely popping and ranked was on life support. Without an influx of new players, your church burns to the ground.

 

I’m sorry that your son isn’t getting the PvP experience you want him to get. But, that’s what other games are for. Or, maybe, your son will come to enjoy PvE and everything else the game has to offer…you know, without being exposed to the kind of toxicity that breeds ideas like “PvE players are ruining muh game!!!”, and, “THE INVASION OF PVERs!!!CAPSLOCK”. Thinking that it’s “impossible” to have fun with your son in an entire video game just because one part of it isn’t to your liking is particularly disconcerting.

 

I stand with the sentiment that was expressed earlier about veteran players being helpful. So many people espouse how much help new people can get if they just ask. But then, folks have to log onto the forums and see this kind of asinine gatekeeping. I don’t care if you’re the CEO of Heaven, selling games to God. You don’t get to dictate other people’s experiences.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Enticy

[cflems]

I keep getting told by people how willing better PvPers are to help and work with new players to the genre... then i keep reading and seeing stuff like this.

 

I will clarify the confusion. This guy is not one of the better PVPers, nor is he even good. This is what, in the pvp community, we call a regstar: someone who gets toxicly competitive over the least competitive facet of this game, regs pvp. If you find anyone actually decent and ask politely, they will more than likely be happy to help you out. Those players, however, are generally in ranked now because they got gear in the first week, or in GSF because they didn't gear in the first week and GSF drops better gear. There are a few that wade through the unfun sludge pit that is post-win-only-rewards regs, or even enjoy rolling around with huttballs, but these are few and far between.

 

As for this post, it is highly comedic because players in regs have been unbearably terrible for years now, and anyone with decent regs MMR knows this because they relentlessly get all of them on a team against 4-stacks of ranked players. In conclusion, it's not the PVEers' fault, just bad pvpers existing in regs as they've always done. And honestly there's nothing wrong with that, it's where they should be.

[assatrap]

I will clarify the confusion. This guy is not one of the better PVPers, nor is he even good. This is what, in the pvp community, we call a regstar: someone who gets toxicly competitive over the least competitive facet of this game, regs pvp. If you find anyone actually decent and ask politely, they will more than likely be happy to help you out. Those players, however, are generally in ranked now because they got gear in the first week, or in GSF because they didn't gear in the first week and GSF drops better gear. There are a few that wade through the unfun sludge pit that is post-win-only-rewards regs, or even enjoy rolling around with huttballs, but these are few and far between.

 

As for this post, it is highly comedic because players in regs have been unbearably terrible for years now, and anyone with decent regs MMR knows this because they relentlessly get all of them on a team against 4-stacks of ranked players. In conclusion, it's not the PVEers' fault, just bad pvpers existing in regs as they've always done. And honestly there's nothing wrong with that, it's where they should be.

 

 

I think its a legitimate concern he is raising. Albeit formulated in a bit of a crude fashion.

 

What if you are mainly a PVE player that loves & enjoy flashpoints and SM ops. But you keep getting grouped with a bunch of clueless pvpers who does not care about tank-healer-dps roles and just mainly do whatever they feel like or are unable to follow raidleader or tank leading the way. But they play this mode because its the easiest way to get gear.

 

I know this happens from time to time already but increase that frequency by x10. And if that happened over and over again daily for the unforeseeable future. Would the reaction this guy is having still seem totally unreasonable?

[Floplag]

I think its a legitimate concern he is raising. Albeit formulated in a bit of a crude fashion.

 

What if you are mainly a PVE player that loves & enjoy flashpoints and SM ops. But you keep getting grouped with a bunch of clueless pvpers who does not care about tank-healer-dps roles and just mainly do whatever they feel like or are unable to follow raidleader or tank leading the way. But they play this mode because its the easiest way to get gear.

 

I know this happens from time to time already but increase that frequency by x10. And if that happened over and over again daily for the unforeseeable future. Would the reaction this guy is having still seem totally unreasonable?

 

The bottom line is that it cuts both ways.

Ive seen PvEers in PvP that were terrible, just as ive seen PvPers in FPs or Ops that were equally inept.

There is no part of this game that we all shouldnt have access to. That having been said i do ebelive in pre-reqs for the highest level stuff such as a certain gear score, valor level, etc... to join NIM raids or ranked PvP.

[Raansu]

PvP gear would fix most of the gearing problems.

 

Open world pvp will never be a thing in this game. The chance for open world pvp came and went first with poor optimization of the games engine, second with the removal of pvp servers.

[Vallation]

So what you're saying is you aren't happy with PVE players participating in PVP? I didn't get the memo when I started playing SWTOR that I'm not allowed to PVP even though most of my focus is in PVE, damn I guess I should stop queing for PVP then since I'm not really a true PVPer since I don't do it every day!

 

Thanks for the memo! damn this game has so many rules!!!

 

Imature comment.

It doesn't take much IQ to figure out that pvers are clueless and make matches a disaster.

[Vallation]

I will clarify the confusion. This guy is not one of the better PVPers, nor is he even good. This is what, in the pvp community, we call a regstar: someone who gets toxicly competitive over the least competitive facet of this game, regs pvp. If you find anyone actually decent and ask politely, they will more than likely be happy to help you out. Those players, however, are generally in ranked now because they got gear in the first week, or in GSF because they didn't gear in the first week and GSF drops better gear. There are a few that wade through the unfun sludge pit that is post-win-only-rewards regs, or even enjoy rolling around with huttballs, but these are few and far between.

 

As for this post, it is highly comedic because players in regs have been unbearably terrible for years now, and anyone with decent regs MMR knows this because they relentlessly get all of them on a team against 4-stacks of ranked players. In conclusion, it's not the PVEers' fault, just bad pvpers existing in regs as they've always done. And honestly there's nothing wrong with that, it's where they should be.

 

I have just come back to game.

When I leaft, Huttball was perfect. Lots of fun. Lots of coordination.

The rest is useless to comment.

[Vallation]

PvP gear would fix most of the gearing problems.

 

Open world pvp will never be a thing in this game. The chance for open world pvp came and went first with poor optimization of the games engine, second with the removal of pvp servers.

 

I wasn't asking for world pvp. I said I will end up chosing such thing in another game and will get better quality pvp.

[Vallation]

I think its a legitimate concern he is raising. Albeit formulated in a bit of a crude fashion.

 

What if you are mainly a PVE player that loves & enjoy flashpoints and SM ops. But you keep getting grouped with a bunch of clueless pvpers who does not care about tank-healer-dps roles and just mainly do whatever they feel like or are unable to follow raidleader or tank leading the way. But they play this mode because its the easiest way to get gear.

 

I know this happens from time to time already but increase that frequency by x10. And if that happened over and over again daily for the unforeseeable future. Would the reaction this guy is having still seem totally unreasonable?

 

I could just go areans in ranked... Yet, I am introducing my son to the game and he is quite young. Needs lost of regs. Besides, WZs used to be fun.

 

It's a pitty. I got quite some good PvPers in guild and we were starting to have ranked fun little before 7.0 launch. The win ratio was circa 55% in guild. Some were being sort of carried. But it was fun having them. Some had potential.

 

Farming pvers when we grouped was getting boring. It wasn't competitive enough.

 

Lots of pvpers are getting quite frustrated. Recently we just found out that 306 without augs is a sort of exploit... I joined a pvp guild now. All like this. I gfrinded for nothing. Frustrating. I have little time to play. Lots of work in RL.

 

Love Star Wars, but seems will go Final Fantasy 14...

[Vallation]

Hi. I'm sorry to hear about your guild not working out.

 

Getting Open World PVP started again is very hard. Mainly because we don't have enough people interested in doing it. Its a tall order. Even if you managed to form a guild and get a team together for Open World PVP, if you're dominating it due to having a team, that will ALSO be counter productive to making people want to play in that format.

 

On the other side of the coin, all the PVErs joining the PVP and GSF queue has led to quite a lot of frustration from the Player Base. However in the long term this could actually be a good thing, as a PVP player you obviously acknowledge its the 'best' game mode, and in time, some of these people will learn to appreciate that too.

 

If you really want to build a great guild you'll need to be less discriminating towards PVErs trying to learn.

I would suggest refining your guild advert, and actually trying to recruit them and offer training. That is the winning strategy. Condemning them like they're not allowed to be bad at the game mode won't work and its toxic.

 

The guild was exclusive for pvp and dedicated. We accepted a few still learning. Just a few. The guild wasnt working cause players are LEAVING the game. Not going other guilds. And it seems it's my turn.

 

I love Star Wars, but my career is one that shaped me: I am extremelly demanding. Will not accept bad design in the little entertainment time I have.

 

Words from my lead programmer, when I described the situation: bad game design. Should have thought pvp matches would be full of ppl who are clueless and that would be frustrating to those who are not.

 

I could just go ranked, but that is not possible. My idea is to bring my son along and he needs lots of regs. Besides, WZs used to be fun. I just came back, from 2013. They are a waste of time now.

 

The community used to get different replies as well. More informative. More data.

[Vallation]

The bottom line is that it cuts both ways.

Ive seen PvEers in PvP that were terrible, just as ive seen PvPers in FPs or Ops that were equally inept.

There is no part of this game that we all shouldnt have access to. That having been said i do ebelive in pre-reqs for the highest level stuff such as a certain gear score, valor level, etc... to join NIM raids or ranked PvP.

 

I do not know if pve is disturbed proportionally as much as pvp is. So far, regs became extremelly frustrating. Today, I played 16 matches. Not one that was fun. Not one. Not counting wins/defeats. It's about the match.

 

IF pvp gear wasn't so desired by pvers, the thing would improve A LOT. Pvp would not be so attractive, mainly by underachieving pvers, and pvper experience would possibily be better. It would be lovely that DEVs edited pve gear with same stats as pvp gear. Problem solved!

[Nickodemous]

I do not know if pve is disturbed proportionally as much as pvp is. So far, regs became extremelly frustrating. Today, I played 16 matches. Not one that was fun. Not one. Not counting wins/defeats. It's about the match.

 

IF pvp gear wasn't so desired by pvers, the thing would improve A LOT. Pvp would not be so attractive, mainly by underachieving pvers, and pvper experience would possibily be better. It would be lovely that DEVs edited pve gear with same stats as pvp gear. Problem solved!

 

I was with you until the last sentence.

 

Are you kidding me? Hard core pvpers do not give pve a thought. In fact, do not respect pve at all. I have more respect for a pvp'er that can take me down vs a group of pve'ers who think that taking down a scary generated boss is super special!

[KyeXema]

I will list the chain of events that lead to PVER invasion:

 

1) Thyrsian gear does more DPS than Noble Decurion. The latter has more Endurance.

2) GSF currency/mats motivate further grinding of Thyrsian gear.

3) This makes its the go to gear - mainly for underachieving pvers, that will not have NIM gear.

4) PVERs invade regs. Clueless, they watch as some people that actually know what to do strike goals with 3 players, 2 passes in Quesh Huttball. And weeks pass and they are still clueless! They are used to sit on a place and do their "rotations". Period.

5) In the end, they and, now, I and my son, just wait for the luck of getting a team of people who are less clueless... It's extremelly frustrating.

6) Some say that, with time, people will have their gear and the PVP environmant will be better.

 

Sorry, this should have been thought of in game design. Devs should know PVP would be invaded - and destroyed. This does not need PTS.

 

I started a PVP guild. It was losing players fast... One told me "This had everything to be great, but I won't waste my gaming time anymore. Better to get World PVP in another game".

 

What can DEVs do in a short time? Edit Noble Decurion gear? I am desperate here. I introduced my son to MMOs and wanted to have fun with him in summer. And wanted it in Star Wars. It's utterly impossible now.

 

Don't take this as some kid flamming. I sell myself "games" to the military. I know my ****.

 

Lovely if some feedback.

 

I'm sorry for your frustration but this is a bad take, PVE players giving pvp a chance is always a good thing, it means theres a chance we'll have more people by the end of their gear grind, more people = faster queues, and if winning is all you care about then warzones are probably not for you, i can go on a 10 loss streak but if im having fun who cares?

 

The biggest problem with pvp right now that no one seems to talk about is the fact that 326 GEAR MAKES YOU WEAKER THAN 306 INSIDE WARZONES, right now only the ones who did the grind already are aware of it, when more people realize that their gear grind was *********** meaninless then it will be an issue, we should be pushing to get this fixed ASAP.

[TheRedThreat]

I will list the chain of events that lead to PVER invasion:

 

1) Thyrsian gear does more DPS than Noble Decurion. The latter has more Endurance.

2) GSF currency/mats motivate further grinding of Thyrsian gear.

3) This makes its the go to gear - mainly for underachieving pvers, that will not have NIM gear.

4) PVERs invade regs. Clueless, they watch as some people that actually know what to do strike goals with 3 players, 2 passes in Quesh Huttball. And weeks pass and they are still clueless! They are used to sit on a place and do their "rotations". Period.

5) In the end, they and, now, I and my son, just wait for the luck of getting a team of people who are less clueless... It's extremelly frustrating.

6) Some say that, with time, people will have their gear and the PVP environmant will be better.

 

Sorry, this should have been thought of in game design. Devs should know PVP would be invaded - and destroyed. This does not need PTS.

 

I started a PVP guild. It was losing players fast... One told me "This had everything to be great, but I won't waste my gaming time anymore. Better to get World PVP in another game".

 

What can DEVs do in a short time? Edit Noble Decurion gear? I am desperate here. I introduced my son to MMOs and wanted to have fun with him in summer. And wanted it in Star Wars. It's utterly impossible now.

 

Don't take this as some kid flamming. I sell myself "games" to the military. I know my ****.

 

Lovely if some feedback.

 

To be honest, Im not sure your real intent is coming across because you sound very rude.

 

The op and subsequent comments seem to be focusing on how your not having fun in the current environment of Regs pvp. The idea is that if only pvpers were playing pvp then regs would be more fun. If I understand your statements right, You are upset because pver's are coming into regs to get better gear than what is available in pve. Which brings the legit question to you, if someone wants to go from pve to pvp, wouldn't they have to que anyways? this puts you in the same boat of complaining.

This is not a healthy idea for pvp though. I severely limits the influx of new pvpers, which will slowly kill that part of the game.

 

To be honest, I have only played pvp in Swtor, WoW, ElderScrolls, and DC universe (yeah I know). Reg PvP seems to be the same every where in terms of pve people jumping into pvp and not understanding the best strategies for pvp- they are just there for the currency/gear/achievement/whatever else etc. Complaining about this aspect is making you sound immature because you seem to be complaining about getting bad teams (which happens- its a part of gaming in general). Also, stating someone's critiques of your op and comments are not worthwhile makes you sound like a jerk and subsequently inept. Surely you dont mean to come off that way, but you are.

 

Now, I agree with the idea that there should be a pvp stat. Something that sets those with pvp gear apart from those without in pvp. But even obtaining this stat isn't going to keep you from have bad teams at times, and getting stuck with people who do not know what to do. If you want PvP where everyone knows how to play always go to ranked.

 

Lastly, if you are not having fun in regs then dont play regs. I agree with the idea that the weekly pvp mission is dumb to be focused on 4 wins instead of the old 20 matches(wins x2). Yet, I still very much enjoy the pvp experience in SWTOR, it's one of the best to me. Don't play a game, or aspect of the game, you dont enjoy. Those playing with you (your teammates and your son) will not enjoy the experience even though you may want them to.

[Floplag]

I was with you until the last sentence.

 

Are you kidding me? Hard core pvpers do not give pve a thought. In fact, do not respect pve at all. I have more respect for a pvp'er that can take me down vs a group of pve'ers who think that taking down a scary generated boss is super special!

 

This, in both good and bad ways.

Youre right, they dont care, but youre reasoning isnt sound. PvP vs PvE is a silly fight, it really is, both take different kinds of skill, but both require it, as much as anything in these games could be called skill.

[Floplag]

I'm sorry for your frustration but this is a bad take, PVE players giving pvp a chance is always a good thing, it means theres a chance we'll have more people by the end of their gear grind, more people = faster queues, and if winning is all you care about then warzones are probably not for you, i can go on a 10 loss streak but if im having fun who cares?

.

 

This is the one thing i have been saying for a long time now, but the reality is that they do not care. Growing the community isnt a concern for PvPers, which i dont get at all.

Most only want you to lie down for them, and make virtually no effort to help those that could be better.

They will say otherwise but ive spent far too much time on alts and such to believe that.

You want a better community, start with yourselves, its really that simple.

[KyeXema]

This is the one thing i have been saying for a long time now, but the reality is that they do not care. Growing the community isnt a concern for PvPers, which i dont get at all.

Most only want you to lie down for them, and make virtually no effort to help those that could be better.

They will say otherwise but ive spent far too much time on alts and such to believe that.

You want a better community, start with yourselves, its really that simple.

 

Idk who in their right mind would cuss someone out for being new at pvp, that is so stupid, I 100% believe everyone should do the content they want. is it frustrating when they dont play objectives and **** like that? Yeah 100%, but i never forget it's thanks to them i still get to have warzones in this game, it's already small as it is.

 

And every time i've messed up in FPS or OPS ive never been harrased for it.