GSF Has a Problem

[Drenovade]

With everyone scrambling for gear upgrades and completing galactic season objectives, a lot of players who typically don't play GSF are joining matches to obtain the rewards. The trouble is, matches are now overwhelmingly being decided based on which team has more throwers on it.

 

See the compiled screenshots of scoreboards below, taken at the end of several matches. I scrolled to the bottom of each scoreboard and cropped out the players with the lowest number of kills(names omitted). The performance of almost every player listed can be considered extremely low effort, but many are blatant examples of throwing, or at least suspicious.

 

https://imgur.com/a/nGoPWWr

 

"Feeding" is when someone self-destructs immediately after they spawn, or lets enemy ships kill them easily so that the match finishes faster. Losses still count toward the daily and weekly, so it's a quick and easy way to get those missions done with zero consequences.

 

Even taking into account that some players are new to GSF, skipped the tutorial, using raw non-upgraded ships, and have no idea what they're doing, it doesn't explain how bad these numbers are. Getting under 6k damage and below 15% accuracy is beyond horrendous. The only excuse for low damage is if they were guarding a CP the entire time, in which case their objective points should be in the hundreds.

 

It's clear that a lot of players are joining matches, losing on purpose to progress the weekly, and have no interest in playing GSF at all.

[red_onion]

I find it entirely conceivable that some new players in a deathmatch who have their mouse set way too high might actually be trying and still have under 5% accuracy. In a fairly balanced death match I agree with you that those numbers are suspicious but in a 50-10 blowout sort of match I can honestly believe some players never have much of a chance to do anything, they won't even see the worst players on the other team and they're unlikely to hit an ace or a well placed gunship.

 

So personally, I'd give a lot of the players more of a benefit of doubt than you do.

 

But the AFK, no question. If they are going to promote GSF for the sake of tech frags, medals should be tied to that rather than repeatable weeklies. Although I'd argue the opposite for galactic seasons, I think last week's medal required objectives were unreasonable for new players (at least in the current bugged state).

Edited March 3, 2022 by red_onion

[Master_Morak]

I agree and disagree.

 

For my own I want to play active, but I have only one Character with good equiped ships. To reach the conquest goals i must switch to my Alts with bad ships. The positive point is: this Alts become slowly better ships.

 

The other ist, that you become many conquest points for a weekly with each different ship type. I never had equipped for example a bomber before, so now I have to play 5 games with a not equipped bomber.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Master_Morak

[Falensawino]

I prefer the current way than for it to be like warzones that only count wins

 

It's good as is.

 

GSF has guaranteed completion.

Warzones, you can bash your head in for 4 hours and still not get the missing 1 win to complete a 3/4 progress

Edited March 3, 2022 by Falensawino

[black_pyros]

And this is a problem because...?

 

Statistically in enough games played the matches where you lose because of throwers will even out with the matches where you win thanks to throwers. The ONLY common denominator in all the matches is YOU so your own performance will determine if you are average player and thus win about 50% of games, you are above average and thus win more than 50% or below average and win less than 50%...

 

The rule of only common denominator in statistically big enough sample of games applies also to premades and every other factor some players love to blame their loss to. And of course it applies not only to GSF but ground PvP as well.

 

And I get that playing with and against noobs is less fun than playing with and against competent skilled players but the noobs have the same right to play the game as you. And just because a new player gets less than 15% accuracy it doesn't mean (s)he is a thrower. New players don't even know you need to be in correct range to hit enemies and thus they fire from too far and never hit anything.

Edited March 3, 2022 by black_pyros

[BRKMSN]

GSF has a poor tutorial and players that don't know what they are doing, probably won't hit anything with their weapons. Personally, I think there are a lot more people that either just don't know the controls or how to play, than actual "throwers." I switch between a lot of characters and don't always remember what engines I'm using and unfortunately in the heat of battle, that often leads to more self kills than I would have otherwise. This happening from new players that might just be mashing buttons, is not hard to believe.

[ElZaguero]

With everyone scrambling for gear upgrades and completing galactic season objectives, a lot of players who typically don't play GSF are joining matches to obtain the rewards. The trouble is, matches are now overwhelmingly being decided based on which team has more throwers on it.

 

See the compiled screenshots of scoreboards below, taken at the end of several matches. I scrolled to the bottom of each scoreboard and cropped out the players with the lowest number of kills(names omitted). The performance of almost every player listed can be considered extremely low effort, but many are blatant examples of throwing, or at least suspicious.

 

https://imgur.com/a/nGoPWWr

 

"Feeding" is when someone self-destructs immediately after they spawn, or lets enemy ships kill them easily so that the match finishes faster. Losses still count toward the daily and weekly, so it's a quick and easy way to get those missions done with zero consequences.

 

Even taking into account that some players are new to GSF, skipped the tutorial, using raw non-upgraded ships, and have no idea what they're doing, it doesn't explain how bad these numbers are. Getting under 6k damage and below 15% accuracy is beyond horrendous. The only excuse for low damage is if they were guarding a CP the entire time, in which case their objective points should be in the hundreds.

 

It's clear that a lot of players are joining matches, losing on purpose to progress the weekly, and have no interest in playing GSF at all.

 

Learning GSF is brutal hard. It takes months to learn enough to be competitive, and years to really get good. The tutorial is beyond worthless.

 

And having the experienced players spawncamping your end of the field so you get killed within moments of spawning in sure doesn't help. I honestly try my level best in every single match, and I'm just so very sorry that's not good enough for you.

 

If there were a decent number of the matches where you cap the three objectives, it would at least offer us noobs something useful to do, but those are only about 1-in-4 or 1-in-5

 

But nooooo, rather than being helpful, you come in here and accuse us of throwing the match, as good as calling us cheaters. As if the game itself wasn't frustrating, rage-inducing, infuriating enough. Thanks very much, mister elite hotshot.

Edited March 3, 2022 by ElZaguero

[Balameb]

Learning GSF is brutal hard. It takes months to learn enough to be competitive, and years to really get good. The tutorial is beyond worthless.

 

And having the experienced players spawncamping your end of the field so you get killed within moments of spawning in sure doesn't help. I honestly try my level best in every single match, and I'm just so very sorry that's not good enough for you.

 

If there were a decent number of the matches where you cap the three objectives, it would at least offer us noobs something useful to do, but those are only about 1-in-4 or 1-in-5

 

But nooooo, rather than being helpful, you come in here and accuse us of throwing the match, as good as calling us cheaters. As if the game itself wasn't frustrating, rage-inducing, infuriating enough. Thanks very much, mister elite hotshot.

I fully agree with this.

 

Sorry OP, but while i have seen groups of people chaining self destruct, most of the numbers you show are not from feeders/throwers. Those would be all way past 10 deaths and would not even try to hit something; much less have assist or even a solo kill.

[illgot]

It took me a couple of week to piece together how GSF basics worked with different weapons, armor, shield, etc and leveling the ships. Then it took me a few months of actual playing to figure out what I liked and what worked for me, then more time to get better than most players (still not amazing, but better than average and end up on top the majority of games).

 

I still haven't hit the skill level of some pilots that I see destroying people every game.

 

GSF is hard for people who have never played piloting games and the tutorial is horrible.

 

There are a few players who realize that the game is over when it's 2/40 kills and they just suicide to end the game quickly. I can understand this feeling. They have a team of new players against a few vets who are racking up 10-20 kills solo.

[Toraak]

OP is it actually possible that they are simply new, and do not understand how to aim properly? What if they are lining up the shots with the enemy ship? Let's face it players are new to GSF, they may not even have tried the tutorial. (if they even know one exists).

 

Edit: all of those screenshots show they are doing some kind of damage, which tells me they are trying. They may not grasp the game mode yet, but they are trying.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Toraak

[Drenovade]

Learning GSF is brutal hard. It takes months to learn enough to be competitive, and years to really get good. The tutorial is beyond worthless.

 

And having the experienced players spawncamping your end of the field so you get killed within moments of spawning in sure doesn't help. I honestly try my level best in every single match, and I'm just so very sorry that's not good enough for you.

 

If there were a decent number of the matches where you cap the three objectives, it would at least offer us noobs something useful to do, but those are only about 1-in-4 or 1-in-5

 

But nooooo, rather than being helpful, you come in here and accuse us of throwing the match, as good as calling us cheaters. As if the game itself wasn't frustrating, rage-inducing, infuriating enough. Thanks very much, mister elite hotshot.

 

Good grief, what an exaggeration. It takes minutes, not months, to learn how to play. The tutorial allows you to learn the basic controls beforehand. Guides exist on the internet if you need more.

 

It sounds like I hit the nail on the head, and you don't like that. It's already confirmed there are throwers when players are asking their team at the start of match if they want to lose quickly for the weekly. I've personally observed players repeatedly engine boosting into asteroids after respawning, feeding kills. Not to mention the blatant AFKers.

 

Putting aside tactics, and even using ship abilities, it is simply not hard to point at a red circle and hold down the mouse button. Then again, why would you bother if you're only there to complete the weekly without putting in any effort. Numbers don't lie.

[Toraak]

Good grief, what an exaggeration. It takes minutes, not months, to learn how to play. The tutorial allows you to learn the basic controls beforehand. Guides exist on the internet if you need more.

 

It sounds like I hit the nail on the head, and you don't like that. It's already confirmed there are throwers when players are asking their team at the start of match if they want to lose quickly for the weekly. I've personally observed players repeatedly engine boosting into asteroids after respawning, feeding kills. Not to mention the blatant AFKers.

 

Putting aside tactics, and even using ship abilities, it is simply not hard to point at a red circle and hold down the mouse button. Then again, why would you bother if you're only there to complete the weekly without putting in any effort. Numbers don't lie.

 

 

Again do they even know about the tutorial? Most guildies I get to try GSF have no idea there even is one. I've never seen anyone ask about getting a faster match done by sabotage. What server are you seeing this? It's definitely never happened in any match I've been in on SF

[Nebdar]

it is simply not hard to point at a red circle and hold down the mouse button. .

 

Ha try that against mastered ships.....

 

Thanks to first Galactic Season i tried to learn and loved the GSF - i like the objective maps, because i know how to contribute

 

But first matches i gave myself time to see 'what this button' do so me contribution was low

Now that i know more i had chance to play an Death Match against unskilled players - easy targets -but still i was way to weak against some aces that can have 25% -40% of all kills

 

Please let the players play

Let haters hate

and trolls troll...

Live and let others live

Let us play the game as we want...

[Nebdar]

The other ist, that you become many conquest points for a weekly with each different ship type. I never had equipped for example a bomber before, so now I have to play 5 games with a not equipped bomber.

 

You know that you can change ship after you are destroyed and if you use another type it will count for the conquest...

So if you die 3 times and each time you will change ship type you could get conquest objectives for 4 types of ships in one match....

[waisting]

Yes it's terrible. Galactic Season 1 was the same thing. I used to love GSF and still do when Seasons isn't a thing, but now I just do it for conquest, tech frags, and gear. My effort has gone way down because it's hopeless. I still try to win every match, but I'm not going to go all out when half my team is spinning in circles at spawn or self destructing over and over.

 

You're totally right, matches are decided more based on which team gets the least number of leeches. The match quality is so bad it's not fun anymore.

 

And to be clear, no issues whatsoever with new pilots. People who have been queueing for a while can tell the difference between a new person who is trying and a leech.

Edited March 3, 2022 by waisting

[Lyriel]

And to be clear, no issues whatsoever with new pilots. People who have been queueing for a while can tell the difference between a new person who is trying and a leech.

 

Yes - and you tell that by observation, not clipping a screenshot and labelling everyone who does not score above whatever arbitrary line you personally define as acceptable.

[Toraak]

Yes - and you tell that by observation, not clipping a screenshot and labelling everyone who does not score above whatever arbitrary line you personally define as acceptable.

 

^ 100% is correct. The scoreboard doesn't tell you fully if someone is leeching or just doesn't know what they are doing.

 

Now if you observe players doing nothing in game that is one thing, but I have seldom actually seen that from the majority of the people queu'ing for GSF. Most people are actually trying when they are doing GSF, even those that don't like it.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Toraak

[JojoKasei]

^ 100% is correct. The scoreboard doesn't tell you fully if someone is leeching or just doesn't know what they are doing.

 

Now if you observe players doing nothing in game that is one thing, but I have seldom actually seen that from the majority of the people queu'ing for GSF. Most people are actually trying when they are doing GSF, even those that don't like it.

 

Oh yes. My first GSF matches when I first learned of the mode I scored just about zero points in anything, because I was completely overwhelmed and without any frame of reference (had never played anything removely similar before). And that was *after* the tutorial. Took a while to learn. I can absolutely believe that beginners score extremely low, been there done that.

[ForfiniteStories]

Pointing and clicking is hard.

[Toraak]

Pointing and clicking is hard.

 

If your point and clicking at the wrong thing it can be. I've heard so many new players that don't understand not to aim at the enemy ship, but you need to aim at the enemy circle indicator.

 

Edit: and most GS players don't even know there is a tutorial, so they've never done it.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Toraak

[ElZaguero]

In spite of OP and people like him, GSF has the potential to be fun, but the learning curve is harsh.

 

So I will speak to the rest of you. The in-game tutorial is a POS, but there are two places where you can learn more -

 

This is a comprehensive guide. I haven't read it all, but it's too big to just sit down and read all at once. It's very well indexed, and I consult the part I need to learn more about.

 

This is a beginner's guide with a ridiculously long url for some unknown reason.

Two caveats -

1) when you first go there, you'll get a warning "ENJIN has temporarily blocked your request". Just be patient, and in a few seconds the guide will come up

 

2) The text is in a super small font. If you hold down your left Control key and tap the PLUS key on your keypad, your browser will make it bigger. I'm old so I tap it 3 or 4 times.

 

It took me a loooong time to realize not to aim at the ship, but that little circle on the end of a line that is moving around so crazy fast. It took me even longer to learn to tap the Tab key to target the closest enemy, then find that diamond that's zipping all around the circle at edge of screen and try to steer toward that. Longer yet to discover that if you choose the co-pilot that gives you the Kologran Turn maneuver, and hit that when your RWR starts assaulting your ears, it will break the lock-on and reverse your direction.

 

I still don't really get how the heck anyone can use a Gunship effectively. But I'm trying, in spite of what Mr Fancy Pants says, and I am learning. Slowly.

[Tenacity]

I used to play GSF all the time when it was first added to the game. I used to be fairly good, mained strike fighters and had a lot of upgrades and such.

 

Then I took an extended break from the game. When I came back, all of my ships/upgrades were gone, and it's like all my characters had been reset to zero GSF matches. I tried to get back into it, but GSF has changed so much now that it feels absolutely terrible to play.

 

Why do the devs ruin all the good things about this game?

[Skummy]

My strike fighter is upgraded and i still cant get decent kills lots of assist but not alot of kills or dmg. I think its mostly that most mmo player arent very good at fps games. I personally suck at fps hence why i pvp in mmos. I can't carry a team so when its looks like we gonna lose yea i stick to a objective and just stay there because my shooting skills suck. And if i go out i just get targeted and im just los the whole time running away then the "your not contributing" comes up so you suicide to get credit again lul hate the game not the playa. Edited March 3, 2022 by Skummy

[red_onion]

I agree and disagree.

 

For my own I want to play active, but I have only one Character with good equiped ships. To reach the conquest goals i must switch to my Alts with bad ships. The positive point is: this Alts become slowly better ships.

 

The other ist, that you become many conquest points for a weekly with each different ship type. I never had equipped for example a bomber before, so now I have to play 5 games with a not equipped bomber.

 

One thing worth keeping in mind is that you can change ships during a match.. all four types if you really wanted. So I could start with my weak bomber if I wanted those 36k points for five matches but then use a striker or whatever for the rest of the match... you do not need to play a bomber the entire match to get credit for the weekly conquest objective.

 

If I tried using a gunship my entire match my numbers would be terrible but still better than the examples op points to. And with a striker where I'm comfortable, even with a totally bare bones model I'm capable of putting up 30k+ damage on a good day unless my team is just straight trash. Which isn't an attempt to brag or anything, I'm just saying that a good pilot can still be a major contributor with a stock ship in a best case scenario... it really depends on the quality of the other team.

 

Statistically in enough games played the matches where you lose because of throwers will even out with the matches where you win thanks to throwers.

 

It doesn't balance out though, because it's not 100% random. Premade group/teams is one additional variable as is a general preference for pub vis imp side representation (although teams are mixed). It's unfortunate that groupfinder isn't better at balancing teams and recognizing which players will be non contributors and not placing them all on the same team.

 

Also, your argument presumes that being on the winning team is the underlying concern but those blowout matches are not fun if you are on the losing team and they are not fun if you are on the winning team. So, the afk players are still a concern even if you are on the winning team. Although I wouldn't care if groupfinder better balance it out but instead you get players who are dualboxing and both do-nothing player-characters end up on the same team.

 

OP is it actually possible that they are simply new, and do not understand how to aim properly? What if they are lining up the shots with the enemy ship? Let's face it players are new to GSF, they may not even have tried the tutorial. (if they even know one exists).

 

Good point.. when I first started I'd aim for the ship not the marker in front of the ship... this would hurt your numbers significantly and is a common noob mistake.

Edited March 4, 2022 by red_onion

[Drenovade]

Giving the better half of players on those scoreboards the benefit of the doubt, that still leaves an alarming number of feeders and AFKers. It's frustrating when you're trying your best to win, but throwers bring down the rest of the team.

 

Even if all of them were brand new GSF players, there's nothing spurring on those players to try to improve, much less take matches seriously. Losses count toward the weekly, so victory means very little. Just queue up, fly around, press some buttons, and BAM, you'll have yourself a nice weekly crate in no time.

 

If throwing matches doesn't explain the numbers on those scoreboards, then lack of motivation certainly does. I'm not sure requiring wins would be a good solution though because players would just queue up hoping to get carried and then abandon the match the second things start to look ugly.

 

Perhaps if they increase the number of wins required to complete the weekly, it might make more players want to try to win. Wins counting as 3 points, and losses still counting as 1 point.