So was the point of the 10th anniversary to get us to cancel our subscriptions?

[Totemdancer]

This is how they'll remove credits from the game to control inflation.

 

At the same time remove subscribers from the game to control employee salaries

Edited February 21, 2022 by Totemdancer

[Raagnarz]

At the same time remove subscribers from the game to control employee salaries

 

Ok that made me laugh had to admit lol.

[Lord_Morgul]

Unsubscribed yesterday, nothing to do now but wait for the remaining six weeks of my six-month sub to tick down; so sad. I actually like some of the changes and can live with the rest. What I can't live with is what they took away. The game is done for me, just not fun anymore. If others like it, fine. It's just not the game for me anymore. Edited February 22, 2022 by Lord_Morgul

[Muggero]

So why do we only get "this"?

Imho (and that has been stated by others already in some form) two reasons:

 

First (and most importantly): budget

 

This is an old game with a small playerbase. That playerbase and subsequently the revenue will not scale well with the amount of content added.

 

The game is currently making a little bit of money for EA from subs and cartel market. I don't know which constitutes the bigger slice of the cake but I would guess cartel market.

 

Small budget means few resources:

• not enough devs to fix both the huge bug backlog and work on new features -> only the most game-breaking bugs get prio 1 and being worked on. Ok, this is a little simplified - they will probably squeeze in a few minor bugfixes that take little time, to fill up their development sprints.
  
• not enough game designers/artists/etc. for new story dialogues, cutscenes, planets
  
• not enough money for a huge amount of new voice acting
  

 

Second: quality of the team

 

This team has been bled dry of talent. The biggest reason for this has been Anthem. What's left is a skeleton crew. A lot of the old people are gone. This also has an impact on bugs, since new devs are not that familiar with the convoluted mess that is the game engine, which has been adapted over the years. You need someone really knowledgeable with the intricacies of this Frankenstein engine to avoid major bugs.

 

One good indicicator is the promotion of Eric Musco from Community Manager to producer. I have seen this in other companies - resources are withdrawn from a project, a junior crew is maintaining it and minor players in the team are promoted/given more responsibility. I'm not blaming Musco here - he's probably doing what he can with this mess.

 

So imho the process could have been something like this:

Stakeholders: "Do an expansion, that will get subscribers back and spend some money on the cartel market for a while".

Game Lead: "For a real expansion in the quality of earlier ones, we need way more resources".

"Stakeholders: This game is not making enough money to put more resources on it. Make do with what you have. You know, that upping the story content from 2 to 10 hours will not increase the revenue much. Think of something else. Features, new grinds, anything that keeps people busy for a while".

Game Lead: "Ok team, we won't get much done storywise. What else can we do?"

Game Designers: "Let people choose an alternative "class"/combat style. Mix it up a little with the skills. Make a new skill tree. Prune some stuff."

Game Lead: "Ok, anything else that doesn't need a ton of resources?"

Game Designers: "We could also overhaul the UI. Makes it look different and new".

Game Lead: "Ok, let's do that."

 

I know, some of you will say "but they are losing subs with this", but I question how many people really leave for good. Most of us have an emotional investment in the game that is not easily severed (even if there is a point for the final straw to break the camels back). There are of course people re-subbing, but even with 10 or even more hours of story content, those players would be through with it quickly and unsub again.

 

For me personally the most baffling thing about this expansion is the lack of cool new cartel market stuff. I expected the story to be short, the writing of lesser quality and a lot of bugs. I didn't expect such a lackluster performance regarding new cartel market items which I believe is their main source of income (I may be wrong of course).

 

Disclaimer: I don't claim to be an expert. But I am a product manager in a small F2P developer/publisher company and I've been in the industry for a while. I have seen similar things happening, and the reason has always been budget/resources. In the end, what matters is simple economics and the bottom line for the stakeholders. A huge investment in an expansion, that you already know will not have a similar effect on revenue will just not be greenlighted. In projects like this, it's usually "make do with what you have and we will try to squeeze some more money out of it as long as we keep the game alive".

 

But the whole thing has a flaw in logic.

With updates like this, EA can't win players back and it will continue to make little money. Other publishers have done it before! e.g. Blizzard took a lot of money for its biggest MMO, and brought 2 really good addons which brought back a number of players and won new ones. And suddenly it made really good profits again. I think EA would also have to act here, then SWTOR would also make good profits.

[ReveredDead]

I think I will wait a month or two to see if Bioware fixes the bugs and if they give us a roadmap on how they intend to give more story and content. If that doesn't happen. I'll be throwing in the towel for the time being as well. This is ridiculous man. Ten years of a great game and this is how it's 10th anniversary celebration is going to start.

[JojoKasei]

I think I will wait a month or two to see if Bioware fixes the bugs and if they give us a roadmap on how they intend to give more story and content. If that doesn't happen. I'll be throwing in the towel for the time being as well. This is ridiculous man. Ten years of a great game and this is how it's 10th anniversary celebration is going to start.

 

Excactly. One would think anyone with half a brain cell would see that a game in an established franchise can be a money printing machine if they play their cards right and do their best to make it an awesome game. There'd be flukes, probably, but if the effort is visible and communication good, they'd have a solid amount of goodwill to last them through fixing those, even if it may sometimes include eating large slices of humble pie.

But the last years have told me that generally half a brain cell is too much to ask, as investments are "bäh" and thus only low-quality stuff is cookes up for the highest price possible. Possible returns are incomprehensibly far in the future and arcane secrets never to be unlocked for those people.

[sxykitten]

So why do we only get "this"?

Imho (and that has been stated by others already in some form) two reasons:

 

First (and most importantly): budget

 

This is an old game with a small playerbase. That playerbase and subsequently the revenue will not scale well with the amount of content added.

 

The game is currently making a little bit of money for EA from subs and cartel market. I don't know which constitutes the bigger slice of the cake but I would guess cartel market.

 

Small budget means few resources:

• not enough devs to fix both the huge bug backlog and work on new features -> only the most game-breaking bugs get prio 1 and being worked on. Ok, this is a little simplified - they will probably squeeze in a few minor bugfixes that take little time, to fill up their development sprints.
  
• not enough game designers/artists/etc. for new story dialogues, cutscenes, planets
  
• not enough money for a huge amount of new voice acting
  

 

Second: quality of the team

 

This team has been bled dry of talent. The biggest reason for this has been Anthem. What's left is a skeleton crew. A lot of the old people are gone. This also has an impact on bugs, since new devs are not that familiar with the convoluted mess that is the game engine, which has been adapted over the years. You need someone really knowledgeable with the intricacies of this Frankenstein engine to avoid major bugs.

 

One good indicicator is the promotion of Eric Musco from Community Manager to producer. I have seen this in other companies - resources are withdrawn from a project, a junior crew is maintaining it and minor players in the team are promoted/given more responsibility. I'm not blaming Musco here - he's probably doing what he can with this mess.

 

So imho the process could have been something like this:

Stakeholders: "Do an expansion, that will get subscribers back and spend some money on the cartel market for a while".

Game Lead: "For a real expansion in the quality of earlier ones, we need way more resources".

"Stakeholders: This game is not making enough money to put more resources on it. Make do with what you have. You know, that upping the story content from 2 to 10 hours will not increase the revenue much. Think of something else. Features, new grinds, anything that keeps people busy for a while".

Game Lead: "Ok team, we won't get much done storywise. What else can we do?"

Game Designers: "Let people choose an alternative "class"/combat style. Mix it up a little with the skills. Make a new skill tree. Prune some stuff."

Game Lead: "Ok, anything else that doesn't need a ton of resources?"

Game Designers: "We could also overhaul the UI. Makes it look different and new".

Game Lead: "Ok, let's do that."

 

I know, some of you will say "but they are losing subs with this", but I question how many people really leave for good. Most of us have an emotional investment in the game that is not easily severed (even if there is a point for the final straw to break the camels back). There are of course people re-subbing, but even with 10 or even more hours of story content, those players would be through with it quickly and unsub again.

 

For me personally the most baffling thing about this expansion is the lack of cool new cartel market stuff. I expected the story to be short, the writing of lesser quality and a lot of bugs. I didn't expect such a lackluster performance regarding new cartel market items which I believe is their main source of income (I may be wrong of course).

 

Disclaimer: I don't claim to be an expert. But I am a product manager in a small F2P developer/publisher company and I've been in the industry for a while. I have seen similar things happening, and the reason has always been budget/resources. In the end, what matters is simple economics and the bottom line for the stakeholders. A huge investment in an expansion, that you already know will not have a similar effect on revenue will just not be greenlighted. In projects like this, it's usually "make do with what you have and we will try to squeeze some more money out of it as long as we keep the game alive".

 

First of all spot on but also... SWG was a dead game and had over 50,000 Players by the end still. it still had more players then TOR did before EA told SOE we went back on our word shut it down and force all the players to TOR.

 

This game has less players then Early access newbie indie games on steam. this is ran by a AAA Company and Dev team.

 

The team here was bled out long before TOR 6.0 when EA diced up Bioware.

 

Now EA has 3 titles for SW they are making that's why this patch was bad. they had 16 months FYI from what it seems when they started it before announcing 7.0. they likely months after announcing it likely sent all the team but a couple to other games.

 

My husband and I still play SWG on SWG: Prophecy... still a dam better game and its 20 years old LOL he subed me here back recently and my god this patch is so bad I was playing with him during last expansion. i liked how the gearing was I could take my max geared toon run fp's with our crew and get couple upgrades for alts at my own pace

 

I could strip what mods I wanted out as well and savem for later this was removed what a joke that was. the system we had in 6.0 was not perfect but it was actually in be-tween the gear set change is what shoulda been added with that...this would of made the system better. instead it got cut..

 

the skill pruning is bad WoW did this and it hurt the community lot left...people don't want to have less abilities..

 

the stun changes this was perfect but removing so many utility we had gutted lot classes.

 

lets not get started on the content...what a joke 2 hours of new story vs the 6.0 amount man what a mess this patch is.

 

I've seen dozens I know alrdy unsub and quit and I don't blame them I may never resub again if this isn't fixed soon...

 

already hating the weapons we get.. they need to go back to the old gearing and leave it as is and keep the implants,

[iphacles]

It's a hard, sad feeling. I load into the game and see those new origin icons and it honestly depresses me. I loved this game. None of these changes were needed or asked for. The only decent addition might have been the choice to that you can switch to one other class or switch to the combat style of your LS/DS equivalent. The new cinematic and loading screen, a lower quality then the ones before. I truly want a revert of the UI. None of it was needed.

 

Same. I unsubscribed and I'm kinda sad about it. I loved my characters and really enjoyed the game before 7.0 dropped. I wrote a long note about why I unsubscribed and got an email later that day offering me 500 complimentary cartel coins. So all is definitely forgiven now lol. I'm surprised they didn't offer me 100 credits like they did for my tacticals. All joking aside this is the first MMO that I ever quit that I wasn't just burnt out on, but because they ruined it for me.

[Neo_Psy]

Yeah I just came back to the game and this expansion was so bad I canceled the fresh subscription just a few days later. Normally I leave it running for at least 6 months while I play and absorb all the new stuff which an expansion normally offers. But after completing the story in 2 hours I'm just left with trying to piece together the horrible and confusing new gearing method, but worse still trying to gear up playing old stale content.

 

One new flashpoint and a short story is not an expansion. You need to provide us with way more content to chew through if you expect us to gear up and grind a butt load of new currency. At least make the grind fun, ***.

[Sinadu]

Can I have your stuff? 😂

 

 

Sorry... Tora asked first.

[OlBuzzard]

So why do we only get "this"?

Imho (and that has been stated by others already in some form) two reasons:

 

First (and most importantly): budget

 

This is an old game with a small playerbase. That playerbase and subsequently the revenue will not scale well with the amount of content added.

 

The game is currently making a little bit of money for EA from subs and cartel market. I don't know which constitutes the bigger slice of the cake but I would guess cartel market.

 

Small budget means few resources:

• not enough devs to fix both the huge bug backlog and work on new features -> only the most game-breaking bugs get prio 1 and being worked on. Ok, this is a little simplified - they will probably squeeze in a few minor bugfixes that take little time, to fill up their development sprints.
  
• not enough game designers/artists/etc. for new story dialogues, cutscenes, planets
  
• not enough money for a huge amount of new voice acting
  

 

Second: quality of the team

 

This team has been bled dry of talent. The biggest reason for this has been Anthem. What's left is a skeleton crew. A lot of the old people are gone. This also has an impact on bugs, since new devs are not that familiar with the convoluted mess that is the game engine, which has been adapted over the years. You need someone really knowledgeable with the intricacies of this Frankenstein engine to avoid major bugs.

 

One good indicicator is the promotion of Eric Musco from Community Manager to producer. I have seen this in other companies - resources are withdrawn from a project, a junior crew is maintaining it and minor players in the team are promoted/given more responsibility. I'm not blaming Musco here - he's probably doing what he can with this mess.

 

So imho the process could have been something like this:

Stakeholders: "Do an expansion, that will get subscribers back and spend some money on the cartel market for a while".

Game Lead: "For a real expansion in the quality of earlier ones, we need way more resources".

"Stakeholders: This game is not making enough money to put more resources on it. Make do with what you have. You know, that upping the story content from 2 to 10 hours will not increase the revenue much. Think of something else. Features, new grinds, anything that keeps people busy for a while".

Game Lead: "Ok team, we won't get much done storywise. What else can we do?"

Game Designers: "Let people choose an alternative "class"/combat style. Mix it up a little with the skills. Make a new skill tree. Prune some stuff."

Game Lead: "Ok, anything else that doesn't need a ton of resources?"

Game Designers: "We could also overhaul the UI. Makes it look different and new".

Game Lead: "Ok, let's do that."

 

I know, some of you will say "but they are losing subs with this", but I question how many people really leave for good. Most of us have an emotional investment in the game that is not easily severed (even if there is a point for the final straw to break the camels back). There are of course people re-subbing, but even with 10 or even more hours of story content, those players would be through with it quickly and unsub again.

 

For me personally the most baffling thing about this expansion is the lack of cool new cartel market stuff. I expected the story to be short, the writing of lesser quality and a lot of bugs. I didn't expect such a lackluster performance regarding new cartel market items which I believe is their main source of income (I may be wrong of course).

 

Disclaimer: I don't claim to be an expert. But I am a product manager in a small F2P developer/publisher company and I've been in the industry for a while. I have seen similar things happening, and the reason has always been budget/resources. In the end, what matters is simple economics and the bottom line for the stakeholders. A huge investment in an expansion, that you already know will not have a similar effect on revenue will just not be greenlighted. In projects like this, it's usually "make do with what you have and we will try to squeeze some more money out of it as long as we keep the game alive".

 

I think in the end we sometimes forget just how much resource it takes to produce a LARGE amount of content for these games today.

[Muckbeast]

The UI is a failure of epic proportions.

 

The gearing system is a huge middle finger.

 

The talent system is also a huge middle finger.

 

For me, the old gearing system was great, the utility points were good choices and the amplifiers were fun. The old UI was perfectly fine and didn't take up large portions of my screen, nor was it redundant (I'm looking at you, inventory!)

 

Agree. Though the amplifier system seemed wonky and weird. But agree on everything else.

[Arascor]

I'm out after 8 years, too. But i dont have to cancel, my Sub runs out in 20 Days. The only Thing that would make me come back is a Rollback to Onslaught.

[juliushorst]

The only Thing that would make me come back is a Rollback to Onslaught.

 

Old scaling and Renown as supplementary gearing would be a reasonable compromise.

[xXxNYROxXx]

I guess I’m the only person this patch actually brought back to SWTOR. Lol

[mastersdr]

There is a 0.01% of this happening but the only chance we have is Disney gives them a lot more resources and a huge budget, maybe funds to switch to a new engine; like I said, tiny chance of that happening. I don't get why Disney is sitting back and letting this happen as it could hurt the brand. I would have stepped in at 4.0 If I had the license, I would be involved in all aspects of its diversification. Owning the Star Wars IP is a huge responsibility

[JojoKasei]

There is a 0.01% of this happening but the only chance we have is Disney gives them a lot more resources and a huge budget, maybe funds to switch to a new engine; like I said, tiny chance of that happening. I don't get why Disney is sitting back and letting this happen as it could hurt the brand. I would have stepped in at 4.0 If I had the license, I would be involved in all aspects of its diversification. Owning the Star Wars IP is a huge responsibility

 

Responsibility is something people anywhere on the top seem to lack these days. Don't know why, but it appears that all too often having none of it (plus a conspicuous lack of common sense and/or humanity) is a requirement to end up in a position of authority.

Edited February 22, 2022 by JojoKasei

[Lord_Morgul]

I guess I’m the only person this patch actually brought back to SWTOR. Lol

 

Welcome, hope you enjoy your stay. I rage quit my sub after experiencing how the changes affected the end game for my play style. I know some people are fine with the changes and I have no problem with that. However, for me the fun is gone, and I've logged out after 10 years for the last time today.

[xXxNYROxXx]

Welcome, hope you enjoy your stay. I rage quit my sub after experiencing how the changes affected the end game for my play style. I know some people are fine with the changes and I have no problem with that. However, for me the fun is gone, and I've logged out after 10 years for the last time today.

 

Not interested in another endgame class?

[Lord_Morgul]

There is a 0.01% of this happening but the only chance we have is Disney gives them a lot more resources and a huge budget, maybe funds to switch to a new engine; like I said, tiny chance of that happening. I don't get why Disney is sitting back and letting this happen as it could hurt the brand. I would have stepped in at 4.0 If I had the license, I would be involved in all aspects of its diversification. Owning the Star Wars IP is a huge responsibility

 

I don't think Disney cares, they still get their license fee. They recently made the license non-exclusive, eventually another company and investors will try their hand at this.

[xXxNYROxXx]

So do y’all think this is the last year for swtor?

[Lord_Morgul]

Not interested in another endgame class?

 

Maybe, but I don't think the game is in the position to do enough to bring me back. As many have stated here over the years, for whatever reason it takes them 15 months to turn out the same amount of content some produce in three. If it wasn't for my love of the brand, I'd been gone long ago.

[SnEaKyMan]

Hey team, let's release a minor content patch and pass it off as an expansion. Whilst we do the bare minimum, lets spend our budget on a cinematic to hype up the game that has been lacking a real expansion for years, you know...to make the players really think this is a big expansion. While the hype is super high and everyone is really excited, lets release a digital collectors edition pack for the game which gives them some basic skins, but also does not actually give them any access to the collectors vendors that were in launch of the game. You know, really make them spend out some money before we launch with the hype. Once we launch the game, **** is gonna really hit the fan when they actually find out we released a 10% complete UI overhaul, which is buggy and still not the right colours and when they finally finish the 30minutes of cut scene content, so we're going to need to bunker down and bury our heads in the sand for at least 3 months. Lets hope they "FORGOR 💀" we took them for a ride and re-appear by publishing a new news article from Keith pretending the launch of 7.0 was a success and that we've been taking all the feedback and will be introducing a roadmap over the next 10 years. you know, keep it super generic to give them a sense of hope while reeling in their cash from the cartel market. They'll eventually forget we gave them an expansion of not content, but just air. hehe.

 

We'll be known as the Pirates of Rishi, AKA Bioware Studios.

 

- Leadership Team for SWTOR, probably.

Edited February 22, 2022 by SnEaKyMan

[Lord_Morgul]

So do y’all think this is the last year for swtor?

 

Actually, I don't. I think there are enough people here that love Star Wars so much that they will ride this out. This is not the first time the devs made unpopular decisions that were later changed. I expect the game to be around in some form or another until something better comes along or is in the works. In other words, as long as EA can afford the license, the game will be around.

[juliushorst]

So do y’all think this is the last year for swtor?

 

Last time this kind of backlash happened was 5.0 with "exciting RNG" gearing. Back then BW realized that people aren't kidding when they said they'll unsubscribe and started mitigating the catastrophe that was 5.0 gearing. Hopefully same thing will happen now.