Operative class should be banned from queuing PVP....

[Jarbarian]

Everyone replying saying OP needs to get good is frankly, a casual.

 

Operatives are an issue because with the standard stats build everyone uses, the class literally hands you a combo that enables you to global ANY player, fairly quickly. I can do it on my Operative, cc, volatile substance, burst it, punch, punch, reset volatile substance, apply it, explode it, punch punch - you've lost all your health.

 

If I can do it anyone can as I absolutely suck at the class.

However, I don't think the class is a problem.

People are correct in saying that GOOD ops do take a lot of skill to play.

 

What does need nerfed is the stupid tactical people take for Volatile Substance.

THAT is what is destroying our queues and enabling any Tom, Dick or Harry that takes up the class to be pain.

 

Well yes but being immune 2 of 6 seconds, every 6 seconds is also MASSIVELY OP.

[Jarbarian]

The apex predator specs for PVP are AP PT and immortal jugg, but there are always the morons who come into this idiot's threads and complain about the mythical 31/31/31 spec operatives.

 

As much as this game desperately needs players, idiots who think conc op is a problem should hit Win+X, down arrow, enter, then find Star Wars The Old Republic and click "uninstall."

 

Lets start with you, since you suffer from myopia.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Jarbarian

[Jarbarian]

You can condescend all you like. It doesn't change the fact that Severith is right. Most people who PvP openly admit that Concealment Operative, Skanks Juggs, and AP PT are slightly overtuned. If all of them had an edge taken off of their burst they'd be fine. (Operative roll de-sync does need to be fixed though).

 

I'm not really sure how "don't 1v1 them" is a valid argument when it comes to game balance. That's literally like me saying "skanks aren't broken, just don't 1v1 them and play with your team."

 

Victory should be a result of outplaying your opponent, not a foregone conclusion due to an inherent disparity in class capability.

 

None of his argument is valid. He plays Operative. He doesn't want them nerfed to NORMAL damage. That's what it comes down to.

[abhaxus]

Well yes but being immune 2 of 6 seconds, every 6 seconds is also MASSIVELY OP.

 

Your math is quite a bit off, and your argument is incredibly simplistic.

 

Conc ops can be immune for 2.9 seconds every 7 seconds assuming tier 1 alacrity and rolling on GCDs (Roll 1 (1.4s) -> roll 2 (1.5s)). However, they lose DPS doing this because they are losing ~2.8s where they are unable to use any attacking abilities. If you have a conc op pressured to the point that they are losing two GCDs out of every 4-5, they are going to do almost no damage to you or your team.

 

They are a spec designed for 1v1 combat. Just don't engage with them. People keep telling you this, on every one of your embarrassing threads, and you continue to embarrass yourself.

[DavidAtkinson]

I am ashamed to admit that I kind of dropped marauder after maining it for like 5 years , in preparation for 7.0 , where warriors look to be rock bottom trash .

 

I have found this class to be a total pvp machine having all the possible tools to create to most possible mess and you can totally cripple anyone pretty quickly with a conc oper,

 

However they are not that god mode and can be shut down . Like someone else has already said, if you pressure an oper well enough he will have to use dcds and thus waste his dps by not attacking the opponent.

 

Every class has counters . Why it seems op to you is because a lot of scrubs( like me) jumped on the ship in hope of some pvp glory and the que is full them . But most of them aren't good .

 

I meet PT's that smash my face pretty quickly , but I wouldn't start a nerf pt thread . It's quite possible, OP, you got destroyed mostly by a player that is way better than you and not by the class.

[Severith]

Maybe you don't understand the very simplistic math at issue here. Yes, there is a powerful correlation between being in combat and doing more than 0 DPS. In case you forgot, DPS means Damage Per Second. Not being in combat is a very significant DPS loss, by definition. This should not be a controversial revelation. lmao

 

You want Concealment nerfed because you want to be a duelist hero and because you don't know how to play WZ maps. The answer to your problem is more practice, not nerfs. Tactical Overdrive is not an excuse. It is, in fact, part of the game, and it is working exactly as designed. It is a burst ability that provides burst output. Burst being high spike damage that occurs only a fraction of the time.

 

I asked for arguments based on facts and not emotions. What I got here was an overdose of emotions from you. That little roll you are complaining about has a cooldown. Good players understand this, wait for the roll immunity to end, and then pull operatives into Huttball traps. Good players do well-timed Electro Nets. Good players do well-timed roots and stuns. The issue here is that people refuse to get better because they can't accept that they need to keep practicing.

 

There's no shame in being a new player who doesn't understand PVP. Keep working at it and don't let yourself get frustrated like this. I'm rooting for you.

 

Right. The "overdose of emotions" is from me. Clearly. That's why you posted such a respectful, constructive, and articulate response to why concealment operative immunity rolls don't break the game, instead of a condescending rant that jumps from subject to subject. Attacking a stranger whom you know nothing about might have seemed a bit reactive and defensive, distracting from a real conversation. Thankfully, you took the high road and elevated the conversation, so now we all know why operative "immune to everything" rolls are in fact underpowered, and need to be buffed for future expansions.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Are there a lot of operatives in regs queue on SF again? Or something?

[abhaxus]

Right. The "overdose of emotions" is from me. Clearly. That's why you posted such a respectful, constructive, and articulate response to why concealment operative immunity rolls don't break the game, instead of a condescending rant that jumps from subject to subject. Attacking a stranger whom you know nothing about might have seemed a bit reactive and defensive, distracting from a real conversation. Thankfully, you took the high road and elevated the conversation, so now we all know why operative "immune to everything" rolls are in fact underpowered, and need to be buffed for future expansions.

 

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here. He did explain how conc roll is countered very succinctly. Maybe in addition to remedial math you have problems with reading English? There's no shame in being a new reader, this forum is open to the globe and we don't discriminate based on language skills.

[Jarbarian]

Your math is quite a bit off, and your argument is incredibly simplistic.

 

Conc ops can be immune for 2.9 seconds every 7 seconds assuming tier 1 alacrity and rolling on GCDs (Roll 1 (1.4s) -> roll 2 (1.5s)). However, they lose DPS doing this because they are losing ~2.8s where they are unable to use any attacking abilities. If you have a conc op pressured to the point that they are losing two GCDs out of every 4-5, they are going to do almost no damage to you or your team.

 

They are a spec designed for 1v1 combat. Just don't engage with them. People keep telling you this, on every one of your embarrassing threads, and you continue to embarrass yourself.

 

So why are they rolling? It's certainly NOT to damage. It's to AVOID TAKING DAMAGE/CC. What part of that do you simply not understand? Operatives CAN (and do), use roll to avoid ALL DAMAGE/CC, which means they can get cover, heal up and get out of combat fairly quickly, CC their opponent, back to full health, then back to face smashing not just one, but more than one.

 

Assuming the operative burned you to low health, which they always do, you cannot CC them (or given latency, you blow yours), you're boned. You lose your ONE CC breaker, you're pretty much dead.

 

Roll immunity is not needed and should to be removed. It should just be a gap closer since yes, Operatives need to be on you to DPS you. Even on my VG, with Assault Plastique on them, they roll, IMMUNE! It shouldn't be that you roll OUT of something already placed on you. It's like 3 "Get out jail free" cards. Your CC breaker and two rolls.

 

No other class in the game can give you a big middle finger like Operatives can. NO ONE!

 

It's a lot like WOW and Cloak of Shadows.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Jarbarian

[abhaxus]

So why are they rolling? It's certainly NOT to damage. It's to AVOID TAKING DAMAGE/CC. What part of that do you simply not understand? Operatives CAN (and do), use roll to avoid ALL DAMAGE/CC, which means they can get cover, heal up and get out of combat fairly quickly, CC their opponent, back to full health, then back to face smashing not just one, but more than one.

 

Assuming the operative burned you to low health, which they always do, you cannot CC them (or given latency, you blow yours), you're boned. You lose your ONE CC breaker, you're pretty much dead.

 

Roll immunity is not needed and should to be removed. It should just be a gap closer since yes, Operatives need to be on you to DPS you. Even on my VG, with Assault Plastique on them, they roll, IMMUNE! It shouldn't be that you roll OUT of something already placed on you. It's like 3 "Get out jail free" cards. Your CC breaker and two rolls.

 

No other class in the game can give you a big middle finger like Operatives can. NO ONE!

 

It's a lot like WOW and Cloak of Shadows.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that this response is the single most embarrassing thing I've ever read on the forums. Why do you keep coming up with new ways to tell us you don't know how to play the game?

[AlrikFassbauer]

I've rather seen rolling ("Rawhide !") as a way to move forward very fast, in both PvE and in PvP.

[QuiveringPotato]

The developers of the game play Operative. That explains why this GOD MODE class is so OP in PVP.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

 

My man, the devs of this game are no doubt 90% sorc and merc mains.

[QuiveringPotato]

Everyone replying saying OP needs to get good is frankly, a casual.

 

Operatives are an issue because with the standard stats build everyone uses, the class literally hands you a combo that enables you to global ANY player, fairly quickly. I can do it on my Operative, cc, volatile substance, burst it, punch, punch, reset volatile substance, apply it, explode it, punch punch - you've lost all your health.

 

If I can do it anyone can as I absolutely suck at the class.

However, I don't think the class is a problem.

People are correct in saying that GOOD ops do take a lot of skill to play.

 

What does need nerfed is the stupid tactical people take for Volatile Substance.

THAT is what is destroying our queues and enabling any Tom, Dick or Harry that takes up the class to be pain.

 

I cannot remember the last time a DPS operative even made me feel threatened in a warzone.

 

The only thing operative needs to lose is the Blow for Blow reflect utility, having a massive damage reflect that SOME people take on a very low CD ability (evasion with evasive imperative) is just bad design. You shouldn't have to worry about killing yourself when you're fighting an operative until you see that they're not running the utility.

 

Plus, it's a cheese utility for duels. Still don't use it, can still beat 99.9% of dps ops in 1v1s.

Edited February 11, 2022 by QuiveringPotato

[Dakan]

I main my Scrapper Scoundrel for the flavor - RP, and stuff. I really LOVE my character.

 

But when the mood strikes, and I feel like a little PvP to get the adrenaline going, this is the result:

 

**DISCLAIMER** - At my age now with some grey in the beard, I'm an AVERAGE PvP'r at best.

 

The good players counter me which creates really fun encounters.

 

The bad players I just stomp and can play like a fiddle.

[ZUHFB]

Plus, it's a cheese utility for duels. Still don't use it, can still beat 99.9% of dps ops in 1v1s.

 

It is still a fun utility

Edited February 12, 2022 by ZUHFB

[meddani]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

 

My man, the devs of this game are no doubt 90% sorc and merc mains.

 

more like mercs & snipers

[septru]

I main my Scrapper Scoundrel for the flavor - RP, and stuff.

 

I agree. Operative/Scoundrel is OP in RP, which is why we need to #nerfoperative.

[Sappharan]

I agree. Operative/Scoundrel is OP in RP, which is why we need to #nerfoperative.

 

Informed, and nuanced. Your opinion has changed my mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[septru]

Informed, and nuanced. Your opinion has changed my mind.

 

Almost like...

 

 

 

...all the other posts in this thread.

Edited February 13, 2022 by septru

[Sappharan]

Almost like...

 

 

 

...all the other posts in this thread.

 

It becomes difficult to esteem anyone who does not believe that operatives require a reduction in power in PvP. It's not the only class, and I am ONLY specifying PvP.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Sappharan

[Rion_Starkiller]

It becomes difficult to esteem anyone who does not believe that operatives require a reduction in power in PvP. It's not the only class, and I am ONLY specifying PvP.

 

I’m sorry, but could you please provide a video example of an operative being OP so I can point out the baddie-ness of the players fighting him/her.

 

Don’t worry I’ll wait.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Rion_Starkiller

[Sappharan]

I’m sorry, but could you please provide a video example of an operative being OP so I can point out the baddie-ness of the players fighting him/her.

 

Don’t worry I’ll wait.

 

First, let me be clear. The specification that should be adjusted in the negative is concealment.

 

Secondly, you're reframing the argument. For this reason, no video will be necessary. No one is asking for techniques to draw out a duel with operatives. No one is asking for their mistakes to be highlighted, though that might give some players an edge against some of the lesser tiered operative players. Indeed, what we're complaining about is the 1v1 dominance that operatives have enjoyed for years and years...and years.

 

There is a certain well known member of the pvp community who occasionally hosts 1v1 tournaments. The disparity in power between operatives and all other classes is SO COMPLETE that he has adjusted the tournaments such that operatives get their own bracket...with ALL other classes in another bracket.

 

Now is the part where you tell me, "...but it's not balanced 1v1..." Yeah, I get that. Further, I know that perfect balance will not be achieved for any two classes (much less all) either for PvE or PvP. But on a sliding scale, operative power needs to be reduced.

 

The argument that the high skill ceiling, that most will not attain, is justification for the overpowered lunacy that operatives can do is analogous to ignoring legal loopholes because either few know they exist and/or only a select few are able exploit them. This argument does not pass the smell test. It's refuse and everyone knows it.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Sappharan

[septru]

There is a certain well known member of the pvp community who occasionally hosts 1v1 tournaments. The disparity in power between operatives and all other classes is SO COMPLETE that he has adjusted the tournaments such that operatives get their own bracket...with ALL other classes in another bracket.

 

Ya in the RP tournaments we separate operatives and ALL other classes in another bracket as well. The disparity in lore is just SO COMPLETE. #nerfoperatives

Edited February 15, 2022 by septru

[Cazadores]

Now is the part where you tell me, "...but it's not balanced 1v1..." Yeah, I get that. Further, I know that perfect balance will not be achieved for any two classes (much less all) either for PvE or PvP. But on a sliding scale, operative power needs to be reduced.

 

 

/Sigh dude... Op is its name in 1v1 but seriously loses value after that. Brigg held a 3v3 tournament recently and the team with the ops tended to get swept. The winning team had no stealthies at all.

 

Almost as if you're asking for balance around 1v1 despite saying that you get it's not balanced around 1v1? Lol

[Sappharan]

Ya in the RP tournaments we separate operatives and ALL other classes in another bracket as well. The disparity in lore is just SO COMPLETE. #nerfoperatives

 

I don't watch your tournaments.