Releasing 7.0 without weapon designer is Unacceptable !

[Pricia]

No, it would be a 3 minute job.

The entire system of the outfit designer is already completely available, only the weapon slot was missing. And just by the way, the designer was already introduced 7 years ago with patch 3.2. Seven years, not in Tibet, but in Austin...

For the weapon slot in the designer the exact same applies as for all other slots, there are no 300 new lines of code to write, but copy&paste.

The only thing to consider would be if you use different weapon types (e.g. instead of a double lightsaber, a one-handed blaster), then you would still have to link to the correct character animation. Even that can be done by an experienced programmer in 30 minutes, pee and coffee break included.

 

So we come to the possible causes:

 

• a) the existing code is qualitatively so bad and possibly incomplete or not documented at all, that the current developers first have to find out what stands for what.
   
  
• b) the studio is understaffed to such an extent that they don't have the personnel for such "trivialities".
   
  
• c) The developers are of the opinion that this is not important (we are talking about Bioware after all).
  

 

No, not really. Because, before 7.0, you can't put anything in the outfit designer that you can't equip. So even if the weapon slot was active, it would be a problem when you switch to a combat style that doesn't support that weapon - because then you'd have something equipped in outfit that you're not supposed to be able to equip. So they have to work around that.

 

If you're playing a sniper and have a sniper rifle equipped in outfit and switch to a commando... You can't "just link the animations." There are no animations in game for commando attacks using a sniper rifle. That's why we can't mix/match weapons in the first place, because it would be too much work to redo every single attack in the game with all types of weapon (just a guess though).

 

So fixing that doesn't take 3 minutes. Unless you tell the game to ignore the outfit weapon, but then it would require to switch your outfit every time you change your combat style (and have copies of the same outfits with different weapons), and that would be a PITA. Although I suppose that some people love taking extra steps before doing something... I really don't enjoy it. I'd rather wait two months to have a chance of it working without the hassle.

 

So if they want to make it so that you can change combat styles and still keep your favorite weapon look WITHOUT having to change your outfit, and giving you the appropriate weapon look for each active combat style... it's not going to take 3 minutes. Or even 30.

 

But I'm not a programmer so what do I know.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Pricia

[MystyqeofXev]

No, not really. Because, before 7.0, you can't put anything in the outfit designer that you can't equip. So even if the weapon slot was active,

 

Which is odd, because i can preview Light Sabers on my BH.

[-CGG-]

But I'm not a programmer so what do I know.

 

Interesting, and yet you know what all is missing and approximately how long it will take.

 

Even if there are missing animations, you can create them in no time if you don't have the most incompetent staff available. A few days at most and it's done, unless it's something super elaborate.

But apparently they really don't have anywhere near the manpower to create something quickly anymore. And since Patch 7.0 will surely be another "shining hour" in Bioware's history, EA will probably cut the staff even further.

[Spexius]

Interesting, and yet you know what all is missing and approximately how long it will take.

Oh, and you think it is not a problem if some bounty hunter, while wielding lightsabers, is shooting you from afar because it runs in a sniper loadout? 3 minutes no problem!

 

...

 

Considering the overall situation, they've probably would have saved themself a lot of a trouble and time just going with mods vs. trying to get these fake weapons done right. What I would like to know is the decision process and reasoning behind all this. Or maybe actually not, because I've seen enough of those myself and there is always a horrible stench associated with it

[HectorCasan]

Sorry but no.

 

I want to see the new story. I can live with my 306 weapons for a couple of months (especially as the stats of 324 weapons are just barely better, if at all).

 

I'd rather wait and see a GOOD system put in place instead of a bandaid that makes us change our outfit weapon all the time, personally - for example, have two different sets of weapon in EACH outfit so the game just automatically picks the weapon(s) that matches the active combat style, without us having to do anything to our outfit.

 

And that kind of thing isn't a 30 minute code fix.

 

I'd rather wait to see it done well. I'm also optimistic that if they can't do it properly, they will give us back our moddable weapons and gear (which frankly at this point they really should do, IMO...).

 

I mean, they're going to lose a lot of money if they don't fix it...

 

i'd agree if the just released the story.

 

But this 7.0 changes are a failure. And who the hell wants to play wow in space?

 

they copy the one MMO that is failing and everyone is tired of.

 

7.0 sucks. i'd be happy of only story, fps, and content. And a scrap of the "systems features"

[Rolodome]

Considering the overall situation, they've probably would have saved themself a lot of a trouble and time just going with mods vs. trying to get these fake weapons done right. What I would like to know is the decision process and reasoning behind all this. Or maybe actually not, because I've seen enough of those myself and there is always a horrible stench associated with it

Yeah. Someone might have already said this, but I've been thinking like if it's soooooo hard to do weapon designer, then make all weapons moddable, make it cost nothing to remove mods from items, and boom, now when you get an upgrade you can take them out of the drop and put them in your appearance weapon of choice without much hassle. They could even add a special inventory space sorta like the crafting one, something that can hold weapons so you can have more than one to swap between when you want to, to make it a little more convenient. It's not as user-friendly as a weapon designer UI, maybe, but as I've seen people point out, the design of such isn't exactly a cakewalk to get right anyway. Like should it belong to outfit, should it not. If they are allowing swapping combat styles, then it has to belong to combat style at least, right? All stuff that can be confusing to the user if not done just right. From the stuff I've seen people bring up, it seems like it's probably going to be a disappointment in how it's designed anyway.

 

Honestly, the thing I find most annoying about the current system with weapons is: 1) the ridiculous cost of removing mods, especially on higher level items, or finding the right mods to get a weapon upgraded just right and 2) the pain of dealing with more than one weapon/set, usually when trying to have different weapons for different outfits. Both the inventory and equipping management and the getting all the right upgrades for it again so it's worth it. If those things were addressed in some way, I probably wouldn't care how, so long as it's convenient.

 

Really tho, this is just one of numerous issues this game has with appearance stuff, which supports the idea that it's not just about the CM every time, sometimes it's just incompetence. I mean, stuff like how you can't even sort by items that are account unlocked vs. character unlocked in collections (only unlocked, not unlocked, and all), or how you have to claim a copy of an entire armor set from collections to use any of the pieces and even if you do use the whole thing, if all you wanted to do is stamp it to an outfit, you now have to make space for it somewhere or delete it. Or how the in-game store doesn't even have a dedicated category sort for flairs and tunings. Like even the CM aspect of things does not escape the negligent and half-baked design that pervades this game. It's like they just implement things and then forget them.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Rolodome

[Pricia]

Interesting, and yet you know what all is missing and approximately how long it will take.

 

Even if there are missing animations, you can create them in no time if you don't have the most incompetent staff available. A few days at most and it's done, unless it's something super elaborate.

But apparently they really don't have anywhere near the manpower to create something quickly anymore. And since Patch 7.0 will surely be another "shining hour" in Bioware's history, EA will probably cut the staff even further.

 

Well they said they want us to test it, so I'm guessing they might have come with a crappy design and want to see if we're ok with it (considering that they delayed it... it'd better be perfect IMO).

 

But yeah, it would be so much easier to put a vendor selling mods of our item rating. I don't get it. Plus if they sold them for credits, BAM, instant credit sink.

[Sportiva]

lol, cute that you think how long you've played somehow makes you entitled to something

 

But for fun, let's do a little comparison. You can get a relative approximation of when someone started from their member number, which increases sequentially

 

You=2236705

Me=1709459

 

Oh dear, now isn't that interesting.

 

So back to the simple solution for you I guess. If you find the features of 7.0 "unacceptable", then don't play till they are "acceptable", which is slated for 7.1 by the metrics you provided.

 

My user # is 3,198 … does that entitle me to call 7.0 total garbage?

[KnightGareth]

I've read through this thread a few times now and am still confused.

 

To state my (allow for subjectivity) 2 cents, as simply as possible:

 

If I log on at the release of 7.0, and the items I have paid bioware/ea for over the last 10 years become unusable - this is just a giant middle finger to the few people that have actually been financially supporting this enterprise.

 

Caveat emptor I guess, but in response: Lesson learned, Bioware. My wallet and I bid you 'good day'.

 

--G

 

P.S. - I SAID GOOD DAY, SIR!!!! ;P

P.P.S - errrr, or ma'am, or non binary, or kumquat.... 2022... w/e.

Edited February 1, 2022 by KnightGareth

[joshuadyal]

Just delay the whole thing, then. It's clearly not ready, and 6.whatever we're on now is working fine. Don't give us a broken half update. Just wait and give us the whole thing when it's actually ready.

[MystyqeofXev]

Just delay the whole thing, then. It's clearly not ready, and 6.whatever we're on now is working fine. Don't give us a broken half update. Just wait and give us the whole thing when it's actually ready.

 

Um, I'd like to play 7.0 before Pantheon releases, thank very much good sir or ma'am.

[juliushorst]

If they can't fix such simple issue (it's just changing weapon model within the same category of weapons) I expect we'll see much worse bugs in 7.0.

[-CGG-]

Oh, and you think it is not a problem if some bounty hunter, while wielding lightsabers, is shooting you from afar because it runs in a sniper loadout? 3 minutes no problem!

 

What makes you think you can hold a lightsaber with a Bounty Hunter? How do you get the even more naive idea that you can shoot with it? The two class choices are: Tech -> Tech and Force -> Force, the same goes for weapons in the equipment designer. You won't be able to replace a blaster with a lightsaber and vice versa. Wouldn't make any sense either.

 

Guys, do you ever think before you write something?

 

Well they said they want us to test it, so I'm guessing they might have come with a crappy design and want to see if we're ok with it (considering that they delayed it... it'd better be perfect IMO).

 

Since when do they care if we players agree with their (wrong) decisions?

They like the players here (almost) all would like to have moddable equipment again - have they listened to our feedback? They don't care, that's the famous "Bioware arrogance". But they haven't been in a position to afford it for years, they just haven't realized it yet.

[ronin_chi_lao]

What makes you think you can hold a lightsaber with a Bounty Hunter? How do you get the even more naive idea that you can shoot with it? The two class choices are: Tech -> Tech and Force -> Force, the same goes for weapons in the equipment designer. You won't be able to replace a blaster with a lightsaber and vice versa. Wouldn't make any sense either.

 

Guys, do you ever think before you write something?

 

 

 

Since when do they care if we players agree with their (wrong) decisions?

They like the players here (almost) all would like to have moddable equipment again - have they listened to our feedback? They don't care, that's the famous "Bioware arrogance". But they haven't been in a position to afford it for years, they just haven't realized it yet.

Oh be nice and give some credit to EA for that too

[MadDutchman]

My user # is 3,198 … does that entitle me to call 7.0 total garbage?

 

Has nothing to do with it. That's the whole point.

 

You can say what you want about it because that's the nature of public forums, nothing to do with your member number or achievements or whatever. Or put another way, your podium doesn't grow with age or accomplishments.

 

Starting to make demands and belittling other's views based on time in game or achievements and whatnot, as the OP was doing, is when it starts getting irritating.

[Rolodome]

Has nothing to do with it. That's the whole point.

 

You can say what you want about it because that's the nature of public forums, nothing to do with your member number or achievements or whatever. Or put another way, your podium doesn't grow with age or accomplishments.

 

Starting to make demands and belittling other's views based on time in game or achievements and whatnot, as the OP was doing, is when it starts getting irritating.

If someone has been here for 10 years and put thousands of dollars into the game, that should mean something. If it doesn't mean you're entitled to anything and it doesn't mean your concerns matter, then what does being a customer even mean. I understand that in a vacuum, comparing such numbers to other players is silly, but your interest in the matter seems to be for the purpose of dismissing legitimate complaints from long time customers who have paid for a service. As far as I can tell, that's why OP went that route in the first place, is because of receiving unfairly dismissive commentary.

[Ominovin]

Assuming upgraded weapons are truly desirable, here's what I see as the likely impact for my characters:

• Sniper: Certain to be very annoying as my Sniper is a BT4 Female Chiss and long weapons have a definite 'posterior clipping' issue (which is why I've used a 'Compact Infiltrator' sniper rifle for many years now).
  
• Mercenary: Likely to be annoying as well. I'm not really invested in a specific weapon, but there is a definite 'Goldilocks' issue with Mercenary Pistols (some pistols are ridiculously large, some are far to small to look right with BT3 heavy armor, but some are just right...).
  
• Assassin Tank: Probably not going to be an issue on this character.
  
• Marauder: Minor annoyance to lose the 'dual axe wielding' look
  
• Lightning Sorcerer: Minor annoyance as his current lightsaber looks like it is made of lightning...
  
• Tactics Trooper: Likely to be highly annoying as I really like the 'carbine / short rifle' look I currently have (if you're going to be in melee range, a long barrel is just going to look silly at best).
  
• Jedi Knights (2): Probably little to no annoyance here as most lightsabers look the same anyway.
  
• Commando Trooper: Annoying to lose the Gatling gun she was literally built around (was bored and decided to create a 'school girl with a Gatling Gun' character).
  
• Gunslinger: Probably no issues here as long as the provided pistols aren't too large.
  
• Scoundrel (2): Again, probably no issues here.
  
• Jedi Sage: Probably a minor annoyance since my current lightsaber hilt matches this character's color scheme.
  

Overall, I expect my 'total annoyance level' is going to depend on how quickly they get the weapon designer update rolled out...

[Darev]

My user # is 3,198 … does that entitle me to call 7.0 total garbage?

 

lol....no more than my 4 digit number does.

 

but you know that.

 

For everyone who doesn't know, when the forums first started, long before the game actually was released live, the "forum account creation number" (for lack of a better term) was actually visible under people's names.

 

Until it became the source of toxic behavior, then the forum mods removed it making it no longer super obvious as to the account's creation "order/date."

 

As far as that goes, there could be user number 0001 who created the forum name on the first day and hasn't played a day of the game at all.

Maybe not likely, but definitely possible given the way the system worked.

 

What would, and I believe does, count is the post history and tone of posts in general.

Mine have varied from...bitter....to helpful...and everywhere in between.

[Pricia]

Um, I'd like to play 7.0 before Pantheon releases, thank very much good sir or ma'am.

 

Yep yep yep!

 

 

If I log on at the release of 7.0, and the items I have paid bioware/ea for over the last 10 years become unusable - this is just a giant middle finger to the few people that have actually been financially supporting this enterprise.

 

Ok people need to stop over dramatizing. It's not unusable. You can still use it. And it's only for a few months until they fix it. You'll live.

 

If they can't fix such simple issue (it's just changing weapon model within the same category of weapons) I expect we'll see much worse bugs in 7.0.

 

No, it's not an easy fix at all, because it's going to be a mess for people with two combat styles when they change their combat style and the weapon in their outfit doesn't match the combat style anymore.

[Exly]

Ok people need to stop over dramatizing. It's not unusable. You can still use it. And it's only for a few months until they fix it. You'll live.

 

If what they said is true. They have a history of over promising and under delivering after all.

[Exly]

No, it's not an easy fix at all, because it's going to be a mess for people with two combat styles when they change their combat style and the weapon in their outfit doesn't match the combat style anymore.

 

They should have taken that into account before making promises or refusing to make mods available in 7.0.

[GeneralGyro]

They should have taken that into account before making promises or refusing to make mods available in 7.0.

 

the person you're replying to only cares for the story, doesnt matter if gameplay or systems are broke.

[Pricia]

They should have taken that into account before making promises or refusing to make mods available in 7.0.

 

Yeah I don't disagree with that. You'd think they would actually make sure that they can do something before promising to do it.

 

But the weapon thing... it was probably to smooth the transition to non-moddable gear. The outrage would have been worse if they had waited to announce it, I suppose it was safer to announce that it was coming (even if they couldn't deliver right away) than have people getting really pissed off about not being able to use their custom weapons anymore.

 

Just a thought. In a way... they had no choice but to promise it, even if they knew they couldn't deliver in time.

 

The combat style thing though... should probably have figured out that they couldn't change the first one before making promises on that one. It would have been smarter to just announce a second combat style (although I'm still glad that force origins can change to their mirror combat style).

 

Honestly, that's where a sincere apology would go a long way (and not that "well we can't deliver, sorry, but you'll still be able to do x or y!"). But I'm suppose some people would still be mad, so...

[MadDutchman]

They should have taken that into account before making promises or refusing to make mods available in 7.0.

 

Estimating isn't that simple I'm afraid

 

Nothing they promised are things they can't do, it's things they can't do in the time and budget they thought they would need

 

If it helps, imagine you're an author, and your publisher asks you "when is the next book in the series coming out?" and you say, "oh I should have it in 6 months"

 

Then something goes wrong. Perhaps a family member dies and you lose a few weeks. Maybe you get sick and lose a few more. Perhaps you get halfway through and realize that the whole thing is just not right, doesn't work, and you throw it out and start over.

 

 

Simply put, software estimating is hard, not helped one bit by the corporate overlords who want to publish glamourous marketing campaigns as early as possible.

 

Trust me, they took it into account. They just got it very very wrong, and didn't communicate their problems very well at all (which is a separate problem)

[Exly]

Yeah I don't disagree with that. You'd think they would actually make sure that they can do something before promising to do it.

 

But the weapon thing... it was probably to smooth the transition to non-moddable gear. The outrage would have been worse if they had waited to announce it, I suppose it was safer to announce that it was coming (even if they couldn't deliver right away) than have people getting really pissed off about not being able to use their custom weapons anymore.

 

Just a thought. In a way... they had no choice but to promise it, even if they knew they couldn't deliver in time.

 

The combat style thing though... should probably have figured out that they couldn't change the first one before making promises on that one. It would have been smarter to just announce a second combat style (although I'm still glad that force origins can change to their mirror combat style).

 

Honestly, that's where a sincere apology would go a long way (and not that "well we can't deliver, sorry, but you'll still be able to do x or y!"). But I'm suppose some people would still be mad, so...

 

So, is sounds like you think that they intentionally lied in order to smooth things over with us? I wonder who would benefit from such a deception? If they did it to stop people from being "pissed off about not being able to use their custom weapons anymore" then is sounds like you are suggesting that they committed fraud to prevent people from possibly Un subbing because of this change. That's pretty serious if what you suggest is true.

 

Also, there was another option. They could have told us the truth, and if that did piss people off, they could have sucked it up and suffered the consequences instead of doing as you suggest they might have done.