Player Experience with Combat Styles/Weapons Combos Feedback Thread

[Gaellon]

Tested with multiple PTS character copies of different types, including Dark/Light standing.

Some characters seemed to bug out when choosing 1st and 2nd combat style, with no clear cause.

 

Problem 1: Some characters didn’t get to choose a 1st combat style, but were immediately given the choice for a 2nd combat style.

 

Problem 2: (As a Dark Side Sage) choosing sage as 1st combat style and sorceror as 2nd combat style, the abilities are stuck to sage, with no possibility to switch to sorceror.

 

However, in the same window there was the option to click on the Dark Side ‘mission objective’ (or whatever it was called) to play sage with dark side abilities (like sorceror I suppose). Clicking this reactivated the combat style mission, but upon entering the meditation there was no spirit, and no conversation option to change the primary combat style to dark/sith.

 

Problem 3: Switching between combat styles resets the quickbars, making it preferable to stick to only one combat style (kind of like it is now), and not switch to the other so often, or to not choose a 2nd combat style at all.

 

Various issues (good and bad) and suggestions:

Class trainers seem almost unnecessary, as most abilities seem to be learned automatically. For speeder piloting it did seem necessary to use it (easy for those with a portable trainer).

It might be better to enable ‘automatic training’ for more skills and abilities, although keeping trainers on the planets and the fleet may be a smart thing to do.

 

Perhaps it may be a good idea to do the same with Crew Skills. Keep the Crew Skills trainers in place if you want to learn a new skill (for the first time, or after ditching an earlier skill). But once you’ve learned the crew skill, it might be a good idea to enable automatic learning of new schematics (for free), like class abilities in 7.0. This would make it much easier to work on levelling the crew skills while you’re working on your missions on a planet, without the need to visit the crew skill trainer at the home base or on the Fleet.

 

The new character window looks very very nice! Gorgeous and easy to use, partly because of the way the regular inventory window is implemented into the character window, while still being able to open the inventory as a standalone window.

[LordCamTheGreat]

I don't entirely know whether I should post this here or in the Operative feedback section as some of it is to do with the Operative, but the levelling experience will be relevant to other combat styles too.

 

Origin story and combat style: Bounty Hunter + Operative

 

I'm going to be focusing much more on general feedback while levelling a new character as my character pulls out the Story Pistol for any actual execution scenes anyway even though I have a rifle.

I made a set of notes on the side while playing giving my thoughts at points where certain abilities and passives are granted + the relevance of gearing and levelling speed etc.

 

Character creation:

I only had one real issue when making a character - when I first clicked on a combat style the weapons didn't show. Clicking on a different combat style and then back to the previous one loaded the weapons. Everything else was fine. I preferred the old character creation without the biased red or blue lighting and proper full body zooms.

 

Level 1-17 (Hutta) experience overall:

With 6 abilities granted and 3 nearly useless passives, the early (1-10) levelling experience isn't that bad.

This is mostly down to the fact that quick shot was added back in and you get thermal grenade pretty quickly.

For some extremely strange reason you start with a) a passive that does literally nothing, b) a passive that affects one of your abilities and c) gain tactical advantage fairly early - which does absolutely nothing until level 19 when you finally get your first ability that uses it.

 

Gear granted is relevant and the hutta battler gear actually looks pretty nice.

Heroics were soloable without a companion, however the heroic crate gear aesthetic was sadly tailored towards the combat style and not the origin story. Thankfully outfitter exists to help with this.

Experience gains feel the same if not higher than on live where I have access to the major xp boost but also my bonus xp set gear, guild boosts etc.

 

In depth level 1-17 experience:

 

Level 1-3: 3 abilities total

Actives:

Rifle shot, overload shot, shiv.

I was one shotting low level targets with overload shot and shiv, feels nice starting with 3 abilities - long range, mid range and short range.

 

Passives:

For some reason you start with lethal dose and cut down despite only one ability benefitting from any of the effects.

Instead, I would grant lethal dose at level 10 when you gain corrosive dart and cut down at level 15 when you gain noxious knives.

Then I would grant Skirmisher at level 1 or 4 when you get thermal grenade - the passive that allows thermal grenade to damage any type of enemy and increases weapon damage (further differentiating it from Sniper early on).

 

 

Level 4: thermal grenade granted. Nice and early semi aoe ability

 

Level 8: I didn't notice at first but Tactical Advantage is granted here....which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever considering the first ability you get that uses it is at level 19. That's 11 levels later. Why??!

Kolto Infusion should be granted here so that Operatives get at least a single healing ability before level 10 and can start to learn how the tactical advantage system works + the fact that operatives are a healer, something a new player wouldn't even notice until level 19.

 

Level 10: Stealth and Corrosive Dart granted.

I'm fine with this, corrosive dart isn't really necessary before this point due to how quickly you kill enemies on the first planet and stealth shouldn't be available immediately as you want players to kill enemies and not skip them (at least to begin with). Would have liked to have gotten backstab, adrenaline probe and evasion by this point to make extended combat more bearable.

 

Level 10-15

One ability, noxious knives

Skirmisher passive.

Both these things help a lot with AoE damage.

 

Thoughts: So far it feels like I'm getting less abilities than I did in 2.0, made worse from the fact that I don't get discipline abilities until level 23.

I don't understand how this is supposed to be new player friendly when it's teaching new players to spam overload shot over and over, doesn't even mention the existence of tactical advantage or provide means to use it etc.

This needs work. More abilities earlier and properly spaced out.

 

 

Black Talon Level 17-18 Solo Flashpoint experience:

 

After Hutta I went through Black Talon solo mode and had no difficulty - though I did end up using my full heroic moment with all 8 class abilities because the boss fights were really REALLY boring without access to any discipline abilities and passives.

 

 

Dromund Kaas Level 18-23:

Finally got my first healing ability and my first ability that uses a tactical advantage.

Entering Dromund Kaas it feels like I've forgotten to go pick up my advanced class because all I have as combat abilities are the 5 base abilities I used to get as an imperial agent when I started playing in 2.0 (+ noxious knives).

These first 20 levels could be condensed into 10 - which makes perfect sense considering that's how it works on live.

Story gear given was relevant and tied to my origin story. Heroic gear aesthetics were still tied to the origin style that was traditionally associated with operative (i.e. imperial agent).

 

Level 18-23 experience in depth (oh dear):

 

Level 23

Once again I really really really really do not understand what is going on with the level design between levels 1-23. 1-22 are barren. You gain very few abilities, 4 passives that are gained in the wrong order including tactical advantage before you can even use it.

Then suddenly at level 23 you get: Adrenaline probe, Backstab, Evasion, Kolto Probe, Stim Boost and your first discipline ability for abilities. Then you get Preparedness and your second discipline passive.

That's 6 abilities and 2 passives in one level without any explanation whatsoever.

 

As a veteran player I finally feel like I'm playing an operative at level 23. But, with the mindset of a new player I would be so confused and be sitting there spending a bunch of time having to figure out what I've just been given (not to mention I'd have no clue about the passives I've just been given either).

I thought the point of spreading out abilities was supposed to be for new players, yet then in a single level they get bombarded with 8 new things and there are still no tutorials explaining what they do!!

 

Adrenaline probe, backstab, evasion and kolto probe should all be granted at separate levels before level 23. This steadily introduces new players to; a big energy regen button, positional requirements, a DCD, heal over time abilities.

 

Speaking of positional requirements...since operatives don't get flashbang or debilitate anymore (at least not baseline and not early on), backstab should be renamed and no longer have a positional requirement. Otherwise it becomes a one time use ability in combat. This was most noticeable when playing solo flashpoints and doing heroics where you can barely get behind a target unless you know the technique to move inside the target and force a backstab through.

 

 

As someone who loves level cap increases, we could do with 10 levels or more being removed from the game with the amount of abilities and things that have been removed due to pruning.

Then, increase the amount of XP that each level requires by say 20% (exact % would be tested).

What does this do? It means that players would consistently get something - a new ability or passive - at most every couple levels, but would also have a slightly longer period between levels and so wouldn't be randomly bombarded with the 8 new things operatives get at level 23.

 

 

Is it cool being able to play a bounty hunter with a different combat style? Yes.

Does the pace of ability grants need work? Yes.

It can be fixed and I really do think it's time to do a level crunch so that levels can be consistently staggered such that something is gained at a consistent rate (even the ABC tree has seemingly random rates varying from the early 22 level gap, 8 level gap, 4 level gap etc). If levelling is still too quick, just increase the amount needed to level up.

 

Lastly, the default operative discipline should be Concealment. Lethality is terrible for levelling.

[SnEaKyMan]

- How about you let DPS change combat style to another DPS Loadout?

- Why would you add combat style system yet people caant freely change combat styles?

- Where is the benfit of this new system or how can you try different fights with different styles if the system doesn't let you?

- Honestly, I'm kinda upset with how the combat style system is currently implemented. It's almost more like a gimmik thaan something that players can utilize well. The GF queue doesnt respect all your combat style roles that you can fulfil. And you cannot change combat style in any content...whaats the point of even having these loadouts.

[prrudd]

So far, I have only had one issue with the combat styles. I made a new character after transferring one from the live server. I chose the knight story and guardian as my primary combat style then did the mission to get my second style and chose sage. I was able to swap between the two classes for a while and then all of a sudden, I could only use my sage combat style and couldn't switch back to guardian. But when I could switch styles, the abilities stayed where I had put them.

[JediJabroni]

I rarely see weapons in hand during animations, whether in character creation or when browsing styles in the mission where you add a second one..

 

If the second Style can't be used until you complete chapter 3, then it really should not even be an option to add one until then. It should be a mission that unlocks after that point to avoid confusion.

 

There's an odd mismatch I found with gear and switching styles...

 

I made a copied my Counselor / Shadow, and added second style of Sentinel. All of my light armor stayed, except for a pair of [Omenbringer's Boots] which says Requirement: Jedi Counselor

 

This raises many questions.

1. When using a style that has proficiency in a different kind of armor, do you need all new gear, even if the old gear was modable? (What is the difference between Light Armor with mods and Adaptive armor with mods anyway)?

 

2. I take it that gear is linked to your STYLE, and not your origin. So I would suggest changing the description on the gear to avoid confusion.

 

3. Even if I can't use it, it would be nice if I could at least put it in the Outfitter when Sentinel loadout is active. They are really cool looking boots.

 

...

 

In general, I suspect that General Chat will be overwhelmed with questions if you don't give everyone a clearer IN-GAME explanation of what Loadouts are for and how to use them. I found it very frustrating trying to figure that part out.

Edited December 19, 2021 by JediJabroni

[michael_j]

Bug report cinematic agent

I created an agent with the combat style mercenary - arsenal.

During the mission The star chamber - gather information on the star cabal the charatcer is pointing like he is having a rifle, but no weapon is seen

[JakRoanin]

The switching between styles is very temperamental. So far it only works in a SH. Tried a cantina bought the re-spec perk nothing. Very annoying. Oh and when I switch it changes my discipline...

[Dekibra]

A Jedi knight with shadow combat style here: in cutscenes where my character draws a weapon so far:

Weapon is an invisible one handed lightsaber (e.g. cutscene with Tarnis on Coruscant)

[Pricia]

A Jedi knight with shadow combat style here: in cutscenes where my character draws a weapon so far:

Weapon is an invisible one handed lightsaber (e.g. cutscene with Tarnis on Coruscant)

 

Might be the same bug that makes weapons invisible in character creation when you switch combat styles.

[JakRoanin]

I switched from Focus Guardian to Shadow, forgot to equip the double-bladed lightsaber and single saber still worked. I think that's a bug.

[Quething]

The switching between styles is very temperamental. So far it only works in a SH. Tried a cantina bought the re-spec perk nothing. Very annoying. Oh and when I switch it changes my discipline...

 

You have to use loadouts to make switching work properly. Set up your primary combat style, create a new loadout, activate that loadout, and then set up your secondary combat style, and then never switch your combat style again. Just swap between loadouts.

 

This is one of the things that wouldn't be an issue if the UI were set up properly.

 

I switched from Focus Guardian to Shadow, forgot to equip the double-bladed lightsaber and single saber still worked. I think that's a bug.

 

Did all your abilties work? It's always been true that about half of shadow/sin or sent/mara abilities work with just the single saber of the original base class. Only the shadow-specific abilities like Cleaving Cut or Force Breach would be blocked.

[TheTechJedi]

Quick report:

When playing as an Assassin with a "Ancient Force-Imbued BladeStaff" during the Sith Warrior mission "The Final Trial" on Korriban my character held no weapon during the cutscene in which I killed Vemrin. Furthermore, on the same mission; when I pulled the lightsaber out of the tomb, despite being a double bladed wielder, I pulled out a single saber. Maybe that is intentional/acceptable, regardless, consider it reported.

[JakRoanin]

You have to use loadouts to make switching work properly. Set up your primary combat style, create a new loadout, activate that loadout, and then set up your secondary combat style, and then never switch your combat style again. Just swap between loadouts.

 

This is one of the things that wouldn't be an issue if the UI were set up properly.

 

 

 

Did all your abilties work? It's always been true that about half of shadow/sin or sent/mara abilities work with just the single saber of the original base class. Only the shadow-specific abilities like Cleaving Cut or Force Breach would be blocked.

 

To the first part I am a ditz! To the second part the ones I used all worked.

[TrixxieTriss]

You have to use loadouts to make switching work properly. Set up your primary combat style, create a new loadout, activate that loadout, and then set up your secondary combat style, and then never switch your combat style again. Just swap between loadouts.

 

This is one of the things that wouldn't be an issue if the UI were set up properly.

 

Did all your abilties work? It's always been true that about half of shadow/sin or sent/mara abilities work with just the single saber of the original base class. Only the shadow-specific abilities like Cleaving Cut or Force Breach would be blocked.

 

It would be good if BioWare made that information more apparent in the game. As you say, a better UI setup might make that better or even a proper tutorial.

 

That said, even the load outs aren’t working every time. I’ve 3 characters that swapping combat styles with load outs or the combat swap button produces the same bad results. Ie, all abilities and ability trees are resorted incorrectly and some disciplines are different.

 

But on a 4th character the load outs work as you describe. All except the weapons which won’t equip in the outfitter window if it’s a different weapon type to your Story (class).

 

I can see how it’s supposed to work. But it’s still buggy as hell. And it’s not intuitive at all. People will be rightly confused and upset when this system goes ahead live if BioWare don’t make it more intuitive or add a detailed tutorial.

[MishraArtificer]

You have to use loadouts to make switching work properly. Set up your primary combat style, create a new loadout, activate that loadout, and then set up your secondary combat style, and then never switch your combat style again. Just swap between loadouts.

 

This is one of the things that wouldn't be an issue if the UI were set up properly.

Does it permantnely break the Combat Style switching if you don't do it in that order? Because I imported a Level 75 Gunnery Commando that hadn't started their Origin Story yet, was able to select Vanguard, yet I'm not able to do anything else with it. I can't switch between Combat Styles, I can't set up a Loadout with Vanguard abilities or weapons...either this isn't working, or I'm doing something wrong. Edited December 20, 2021 by MishraArtificer
Additional information...

[Quething]

Does it permantnely break the Combat Style switching if you don't do it in that order? Because I imported a Level 75 Gunnery Commando that hadn't started their Origin Story yet, was able to select Vanguard, yet I'm not able to do anything else with it. I can't switch between Combat Styles, I can't set up a Loadout with Vanguard abilities or weapons...either this isn't working, or I'm doing something wrong.

 

It doesn't break anything, it's just that every change you make automatically and immediately saves to the current loadout, so if you have Commando set up just the way you like it and then swap to Vanguard without changing loadouts, it will immediately forget everything you said about Commando, including what spec you wanted, what talents you wanted, and how your quickbars were set up, in favor of the default Vanguard set-up. Your Commando profile is now permanently lost.

 

I cannot overstate how counterintuitive and badly designed this is. (Or how easy it would be to fix with a complete UI rework without having to change anything about the underlying system at all; just make loadouts the top-level choice and don't even let the player mess with spec or talent until they've clearly consciously chosen a specific loadout to modify).

 

But @Trixxie's right, it's also legitimately broken in a variety of ways even on top of that. Sometimes you have to re-log after the quest in order to actually change styles for the first time or adjust their talents at all (this happened to my Guardian, but not my Sniper for some reason). Sometimes you select a second style and just never even get it on your sheet and can't get the quest back (this happened to my Sage). Sometimes the loadouts completely ignore your equipped weapons (this has happened to every single one of my characters so far) - this may be related to the fact that weapons don't work in the outfit designer, period. I haven't had the issue where I can only swap in a cantina even with the Legacy perk unlocked, but I'm sure it'll hit me in time.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Quething

[Heavy_Time]

Switching combat styles without changing your load out shouldn't permanently break anything. It will just wipe out the current load out and save what you switched to in that load out slot (i.e., your ability locations on your quick bars and your utility choices).

 

Where are you trying to switch your combat style? It's supposed to only work in a "sanctuary" (which I've found to be a cantina. stronghold, and some other random locations) unless you have field respec, though I've not tested that. A very common bug (for me at least) is not being able to change anything after selecting a second combat style until after you re-log.

 

I hope some of that helps. I also hope some fixes will be on the way.

[Pricia]

I'm not sure this is the good place for this but...

 

It took me WAY longer than it should have to figure out how to change the default abilities selected in the ability tree. You really need to make this more obvious somehow... I never would have figured out that you just had to click on them if nobody had told me... The white border just isn't obvious enough.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Pricia

[MishraArtificer]

Where are you trying to switch your combat style? It's supposed to only work in a "sanctuary" (which I've found to be a cantina. stronghold, and some other random locations) unless you have field respec, though I've not tested that.

It won't let me change Combat Styles in Cantinas; only in Strongholds, and rarely the Fleet. It will also sometimes let me change Disciplines in Cantinas, though.

 

I eventually riddled out how to change stuff around and set up the Loadouts with Combat Styles, thanks to a couple of posts in here, but this is not straightforward in the slightest...guess that's why we have the PTS, eh?

[LittleEwina]

Hey so I would love to be able to talk about how it felt to change my Jedi Consular's healer style to try and play as a shadow except that it is bugged, like real bugged. I connected my JC, selected the option to have a second style and chose Jedi Shadow since I do not have a shadow so it would really be a first. Except that it doesn't work, at all. The visual part was gorgeous though. So I chose shadow, it asked me to confirm, which I did, then I realized I couldn't change my style so I looked at the mission panel and it was written "A change in the Force. Click launch to meditate on your style of combat" so I clicked and my JC appeared on that place which is half blue, half red, and I will just say it is absolutely top notch in appearance, but my JC is stuck walking on the rock path between the two zones now. I can't meditate since I don't have the possibility, I can't go toward the blue zone or I fall down until I'm almost dead and then ends up on some kind of invisible flooring (there's a white glowing path I'm on). And if I try to walk around I fall down even further and die, before ending back on the path. I thought then that trying to change to my new combat style may be the solution but still no change. As I don't know what's happening I decided not to try and fast travel to my ship; just in case, so I will leave my JC there for now. I took a few screenshots if it's needed.

[Jascharable]

Feedback on the Jedi Knight and a dualsaber/double-bladed lightsaber in cutscenes (Prologue and Chapter 1).

 

Orgin: Jedi Knight

Combat Style: Assassin

Weapon: training saberstaff (Tython) / Assassin's Double Bladed Lightsaber (After Tython)

 

 

General trend: Whenever the Jedi Knight (JK) is supposed to draw their lightsaber with a dualsaber equipped, they will draw an invisible (single-bladed) lightsaber instead. Backmounted lightsabers are drawn from the hip.

 

Below are the missions where I have noticed issues with the double-bladed lightsaber sorted by location (I have deliberately tried to choose options where the JK uses their lightsaber):

 

 

Tython:

 

Quest: 'Dark Temptation'

• The Jedi Knight (JK) uses invisible single-bladed lightsaber/staff instead of the equipped backmounted training dualsaber
  

 

Quest: 'Weapon of the Jedi'

• When killing Bengel Morr the training dualsaber teleports/appears into the character's hands.
  
• Single blade in lightsaber creation cutscene (it's possible that this is working as intended as this has always been the case. Even when playing a Shadow/Assasin as a Consular or an Inquisitor)
  
• Award: Assassin's Double Bladed Lightsaber - would it make more sense to get the Shadow version since your character is supposed to be a Jedi? I don't know what would make the most sense when taking lore and roleplay into account.
  

 

 

 

Coruscant:

 

Quest: 'The Rescue'

• When Salarr attacks the JK draws an invisible lightsaber. (single-blade)
  

 

Quest: 'Race to the Ruins'

• The JK draws an invisible lightsaber against Tarnis and deflects his lightning with it.
  

 

 

Ord Mantell:

 

Quest: 'New Intelligence'

• JK draws an invisible single bladed lightsaber in the conversation with Inquisitor Ferav
  

 

 

Taris:

 

Quest: 'Catching up with Watcher One'

• JK draws an invisible lightsaber (single-blade) in the confrontation with 'Watcher One.' + This also happens if you decide to destroy RE-M0.
  

 

Quest:' An Opportunity Too Good to Pass Up'

• JK uses an invisible lightsaber to execute Materrus or kill Death's Claw Captain Dugge.
  

 

Quest: 'The Rescue'

• JK uses an invisible lightsaber against Watcher One (when attacking and/or killing him).
  

 

 

Nar Shaddaa:

 

• Quest: Red Light, Black Heart - JK again uses an invisible lightsaber against Commander Graul.
  

 

Quest: 'Showdown with Lord Sadic'

• Invisible lightsaber if you choose to mercy-kill/kill Agent Galen.
  

 

 

Abandoned Mining Facility:

 

Quest: 'The Defector'

• ? The camera focuses on Kira, when the JK draws their saber, hard to tell if it's there or not.
  

 

 

Taooine

 

Quest: 'Desert Duel'

• JK correctly draws their lightsaber before the fight with Lord Praven, but draws an invisible lightsaber when choosing to kill the Sith.
  

 

 

Alderaan

 

Quest: 'The Death Mark'

• The JK correctly draws their saber but sheates an invisible lightsaber post fight with Guard Captain Yils
  

 

Quest: 'Facing Lord Nefarid'

• JK draws an invisible lightsaber against Lord Nefarid
  

 

 

Chapter 1 Finale:

 

Quest: 'Fate of the Jedi'

• JK draws an invisible lightsaber afainst the soldiers when destroying the Reactor Relay Gamma + when the JK fights Darth Angral
  
• After defeating Darth Angral, the dualsaber starts out in the correct potion but when blocking Emperor-Kira it is replaced by an invisible lightsaber. The dualsaber remains turned on while attached to the JK's hip.
  

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Jascharable

[phalczen]

• While watching cinematics, are your weapons displayed properly?
  
• If not, please list the Combat Style you are using along with the weapon(s) if you have equipped, and the scene in which you are seeing this issue.
  

 

Thank you!

No. I am Jedi Knight origin story, Shadow as combat style, Infiltration as discipline. Neither my initial training polearm on tython, nor my double bladed lightsaber subsequently, show up in any cutscene when drawn. If they remain on my belt, they are drawn on my character during the cutscene, but if the cutscene ends with weapon drawn, the lightsaber ignition sound effect plays but my hands are empty. I am currently about to start the Nar Shadaa class origin story line.

[LordCamTheGreat]

Finished chapter 3 as a Bounty Hunter alternating between Vanguard and Operative combat styles - both using a blaster rifle.

There's no point listing out specific cutscenes because not a single cutscene used the blaster rifle. Every single cinematic that involved a weapon used the exact same "Story Pistol" that every other tech based class uses in cinematics on live.

 

As for the general experience levelling I'll link to it here but put it in the Levelling Experience Feedback thread:

[Taurax]

For Merc commando, the story plays fine.

 

However, for both a Merc and a Commando:

**I dont like that we are no longer mobile for anything. Pretty much every shot we take or heal we do, we have to stand still. This isnt going to work in OPS where we have to move around a lot.

**There is no 'hold the line' type ability now, meaning I get roots/slowed I cant break in an emergency.

[Hudlar]

I'm not sure this is the good place for this but...

 

It took me WAY longer than it should have to figure out how to change the default abilities selected in the ability tree. You really need to make this more obvious somehow... I never would have figured out that you just had to click on them if nobody had told me... The white border just isn't obvious enough.

 

I completely agree that the border should be more obvious. In fact, if I hadn't known from reading the forums that I needed to choose one of the three options, it would not have been clear to me at all.