Patch vs Expansion - a little content comparsion

[Pietrastor]

Dread War PATCH:

- new Oricon planet with story and daily area

- 2 new Operations

- new pvp Arena Mode with 3 maps at launch

- released 6 months after ROTHC expansion, 2 months before Galactic Starfighter

 

Legacy of the Sith EXPANSION:

- expanded old Manaan planet with story, daily area to come maybe 2 months later

- 1 new Flashpoint

- 1 new Operation to come maybe 2 months later

- to release 10 months after the only content update in 2021 (Dantooine Flashpoint)

 

Just an observation of facts.

[kage_goomba]

Dread War PATCH:

- new Oricon planet with story and daily area

- 2 new Operations

- new pvp Arena Mode with 3 maps at launch

- released 6 months after ROTHC expansion, 2 months before Galactic Starfighter

 

Legacy of the Sith EXPANSION:

- expanded old Manaan planet with story, daily area to come maybe 2 months later

- 1 new Flashpoint

- 1 new Operation to come maybe 2 months later

- to release 10 months after the only content update in 2021 (Dantooine Flashpoint)

 

Just an observation of facts.

 

Double take worthy....

[TrixxieTriss]

Dread War PATCH:

- new Oricon planet with story and daily area

- 2 new Operations

- new pvp Arena Mode with 3 maps at launch

- released 6 months after ROTHC expansion, 2 months before Galactic Starfighter

 

Legacy of the Sith EXPANSION:

- expanded old Manaan planet with story, daily area to come maybe 2 months later

- 1 new Flashpoint

- 1 new Operation to come maybe 2 months later

- to release 10 months after the only content update in 2021 (Dantooine Flashpoint)

 

Just an observation of facts.

 

But people still arguing on the forums that swtor got a big resource and budget injection for 10th anniversary 😉

[kage_goomba]

But people still arguing on the forums that swtor got a big resource and budget injection for 10th anniversary 😉

 

I don't get those people lol.

The evidence is very much obvious in that regard haha.

[TrixxieTriss]

I don't get those people lol.

The evidence is very much obvious in that regard haha.

 

White knights will be white knights even when the evidence says different.

[GeneralGyro]

I love this.

 

insert "if you don't like it why are you playing?!?!

Edited December 12, 2021 by GeneralGyro

[Banthabreeder]

But people still arguing on the forums that swtor got a big resource and budget injection for 10th anniversary 😉

 

What 10 year anniversary?

 

As relieved as I am of them holding off releasing a broken 'patch'. I am sad that this anniversary is now a bust.

No backup plans, no alternative celebration, no nothing. Who can be excited about celebrating New Years day 2 months later?

[Gilrenna]

When stated in black and white like that, it makes me wonder why this is being called an expansion. I guess because they're completely changing gearing again and adding a lot of cosmetic changes? If half of the list isn't even coming until months later, that makes the expansion look even worse. Basically, I'm going to be able to do the new Manaan story (How much will there be of it? Is Manaan becoming a full planet with quests?), a new FP on Elom (Will Elom be a full planet with quests?), and a new galactic season...? That's mostly it?

[Phazonfreak]

When stated in black and white like that, it makes me wonder why this is being called an expansion.

 

Because the main focus seems to be on the fundamental changes to the class system and combat mechanics, not on adding new story and endgame content. They always emphasized the Combat Styles as the big selling point for the expansion. Considering that they had to admit that changing the primary Combat Style is technically not possible and ultimately delayed the release of the expansion, it has become pretty clear that it is much more difficult than they imagined. They are also a smaller team compared to when the Dread War patch came out.

 

Therefore it is a bit disingenious to skip over Combat Styles just like that. You may not need or like them, but they seem to be a headache to implement.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Phazonfreak

[Gilrenna]

I still wish there was more actual story content, quest content, planet content included in an expansion. I can't seem to get hyped for combat style changes since I already play every combat style there is. I have a character for each combat style, so it doesn't really matter to me if I get to combine those styles on a single character. I get that it's a big part of it, but it still doesn't feel like an expansion even including that. Edited December 12, 2021 by Gilrenna

[oslek]

I still wish there was more actual story content, quest content, planet content included in an expansion. I can't seem to get hyped for combat style changes since I already play every combat style there is. I have a character for each combat style, so it doesn't really matter to me if I get to combine those styles on a single character. I get that it's a big part of it, but it still doesn't feel like an expansion even including that.

 

Glad I'm not the only one who has a "meh" attitude towards the combat style changes. I never had a desire to change my character's combat style because that was one of the reasons for picking my mains in the first place. I've played all of them at one point or another and never thought "Man, I wish I could switch" Now if I was able to pick and choose ABILITIES from each style in order to make my own personalized combat style, then I would get more excited. A sith who could shoot lightning AND wield a double bladed saber would be cool. But that's not going to happen due to the design of the game.

 

I'm far more interested in the story and whether or not I'll want to run my other characters through it again. I think that is where the devs need to spend the majority of their time and resources. Slogging for gear and changing combat styles isn't going to keep me coming back. But that's me.

Edited December 12, 2021 by oslek

[Pricia]

I still wish there was more actual story content, quest content, planet content included in an expansion. I can't seem to get hyped for combat style changes since I already play every combat style there is. I have a character for each combat style, so it doesn't really matter to me if I get to combine those styles on a single character. I get that it's a big part of it, but it still doesn't feel like an expansion even including that.

 

Yep.

 

I'm just hoping that more story is coming later, considering that they are saying that there will be updates "all year."

 

Although of course the expansion itself being delayed for 2 months isn't exactly a good sign.

[Severith]

It's an expansion, because all the systems they finally got working decently are being axed in favor of new systems that will take a year or more to get working and balanced again.

 

Bioware Austin mimics all of Blizzard's bad habits "expansion" wise, even though WoW's history is a literal roadmap of bad turns.

[GeneralGyro]

Yep.

 

I'm just hoping that more story is coming later, considering that they are saying that there will be updates "all year."

 

Although of course the expansion itself being delayed for 2 months isn't exactly a good sign.

 

get ready for 6 minutes of story for 2022. 2 minute cutscene for every update they manage to put out

 

after legacy of the sith ofc

Edited December 13, 2021 by GeneralGyro

[Pietrastor]

Because the main focus seems to be on the fundamental changes to the class system and combat mechanics, not on adding new story and endgame content. They always emphasized the Combat Styles as the big selling point for the expansion. Considering that they had to admit that changing the primary Combat Style is technically not possible and ultimately delayed the release of the expansion, it has become pretty clear that it is much more difficult than they imagined. They are also a smaller team compared to when the Dread War patch came out.

 

Therefore it is a bit disingenious to skip over Combat Styles just like that. You may not need or like them, but they seem to be a headache to implement.

It may be time consuming sure, but in the end it still boils down to "replay 10 years old class stories a lil bit differently". All post-50 content after that can already be played with any combat style people feel like. Hardly a selling point for veteran players

Edited December 13, 2021 by Pietrastor

[Cedia]

This "expansion" certainly feels like maintenance mode is incoming, or even closure.

 

Could it be that not a lot of story is being added because they've finished the game's story altogether in preparation for the above?

[Lucyfer_Infinity]

This "expansion" did not even get its own cinematic trailer, they just cut and glued together old stuff. SWTOR is nearly dead, it is on minimum input/effort plan. They want to milk us while they still can and then cut cord. No black friday/cyber monday sales either.

[Damask_Rose]

Therefore it is a bit disingenuous to skip over Combat Styles just like that. You may not need or like them, but they seem to be a headache to implement.

 

They were comparing playable content to playable content. While combat styles are a nice little gimmick, they aren't playable content and barely breath any new life into old content. I'm sure everyone is aware that they were a lot of work, but were they worth sacrificing actual playable content for? I think an awfully large percent of the playerbase doesn't think so.

[Nefla]

I still wish there was more actual story content, quest content, planet content included in an expansion. I can't seem to get hyped for combat style changes since I already play every combat style there is. I have a character for each combat style, so it doesn't really matter to me if I get to combine those styles on a single character. I get that it's a big part of it, but it still doesn't feel like an expansion even including that.

Same. Even new faces in the CC would be something exciting but mixing and matching combat styles? I don't see a point to it when I already have so many characters with every style.

[SteveTheCynic]

But people still arguing on the forums that swtor got a big resource and budget injection for 10th anniversary 😉

They might be numerically correct compared to the budgets etc. in 2019/2020, but what's important is whether that raised the budgets etc. to the sort of levels they had back in 2013/4.

 

And how much of those resources they expended building Combat Styles. And don't forget that in a way, we, the collective player-base, brought Combat Styles on ourselves, because of all those endless requests for:

* Ability to change Advanced Class.

* Ability to play Story X as Class Y.

* Probably a few other things.

 

Throw in weapons ***IN*** Outfit Designer (spit), and ...

[Savej]

They might be numerically correct compared to the budgets etc. in 2019/2020, but what's important is whether that raised the budgets etc. to the sort of levels they had back in 2013/4.

 

And how much of those resources they expended building Combat Styles. And don't forget that in a way, we, the collective player-base, brought Combat Styles on ourselves, because of all those endless requests for:

* Ability to change Advanced Class.

* Ability to play Story X as Class Y.

* Probably a few other things.

 

Throw in weapons ***IN*** Outfit Designer (spit), and ...

 

Ability to change Advanced Class is something that was mentioned a lot when it had it's own thread. But that thread hasn't been touched several years. I call profuse BS on anyone that says class swapping took hundreds of thousands of $ to code (although the new UI and loadouts + class swapping easily could have). KOTFE had more game changes than LOTS and that was mostly a story update.

 

That said sometimes just throwing money/people at a problem doesn't solve much. I have no doubt that it would take a bit of time for even the best coders to learn enough about SWTOR's environment to make meaningful contributions - for the first several months + they'd need a lot of handholding and code reviews/rewrites. It really depends how long Bioware's been working on 7.0. I know Keith was talking about it 2 years ago, but Star Wars games were all but dead until Jedi Fallen Order and until The Mandalorian brought Luke back. And MMOs were thought to be dead until The New World showed us there's an interest and the fall of Wow sprinkled a lot of lost gamers into the mix. Now even LOTRO has been talking about "modernizing and big updates". "When the money commitment and new people get injected in swtor?" is the real question, not really "how much money or how many people".

Edited December 14, 2021 by Savej

[Stradlin]

I completely understand the sad snail phase when it comes to story content. PlayerChar voice actors alone amount to 48(!!!!) different people. So when story requires playerchar to say " Help me step sither, I'm stuck in kolto tank", it takes voices of 48 people to get past that line. Various logistical and practical challenges alone behind having them all record their parts somewhere must be vast. Some of them prolly have home studio. Some might not. Some are busy and BW needs to wait til they have time..and so on. All that without us even talking about actual costs in terms of dollars.

 

...Its just that drought isn't just there. It is everywhere. There isn't just very little story content. Everything else comes very, very slowly now too. Starfighter, Daily areas, FPs, Ops,pvp all of this stuff could largely dodge the most severe costs when it comes to PlayerChar voice acting. Yet..we really not getting any of this stuff at any notable rate either.

 

GSF is by far the best part of the game. Beyond social aspects (ppl, guilds) its absolutely the only reason I'm here. So in narrow sense, I'm not really touched or moved at all by utter content drought when it comes to ..everything. Its just that all I enjoy in this game requires other people to happen. Most of other people want wealth of new content that just..isn't there. Hasn't been in years. When TOR does poorly, guilds and GSF queues get quiet. This year has me wondering, for 1st time, just how long I'll have a Starfighter to fly and a match that pops.

 

Recent delay, way it happened, sad feature list of the expansion, this year so far...it all paints a pretty sad image.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Stradlin

[JuventusAndFCK]

I still wish there was more actual story content, quest content, planet content included in an expansion. I can't seem to get hyped for combat style changes since I already play every combat style there is. I have a character for each combat style, so it doesn't really matter to me if I get to combine those styles on a single character. I get that it's a big part of it, but it still doesn't feel like an expansion even including that.

Same, story content is what makes it interesting to play with the new mechanics. To me it'dd be a bit like playing Monopoly without the board.

[Pietrastor]

...Its just that drought isn't just there. It is everywhere. There isn't just very little story content. Everything else comes very, very slowly now too. Starfighter, Daily areas, FPs, Ops,pvp all of this stuff could largely dodge the most severe costs when it comes to PlayerChar voice acting. Yet..we really not getting any of this stuff at any notable rate either.

And that's the biggest problem, every part of the game gets rare and tiny updates these days, yet Bioware still acts like it's 2012-2016, makes grand statements about huge plans and oh-so-much to come in a flashy bright future for SWTOR etc. Last but not least, Bioware still asks for the same sub price like in 2014 with 10 times less actual game support. We keep paying more and more for less and less. It's become a joke at this point.

[Ghost_Spectre]

Throw in weapons ***IN*** Outfit Designer (spit), and ...

 

This is one thing I'm looking forward too. I have a special lightsabre (the one the Master of the Councilor has on Tython), I will let my Guardian Knight use.

 

It's this one: Enigmatic Saber IMHO, the best looking sabre in the game.