Leveling Experience Feedback

[Loc_n_lol]

Maybe that's an experienced player talking, but the unlocking of new abilities feels like it should be a lot more front-loaded.

 

I played as a scoundrel, starting with only 2 abilities, a basic blaster attack and a spender blaster attack. That's too little and not effective enough. I should have had blaster whip and the grenade from the start I believe. The grenade is very important for it's aoe ability and also because it's a ghetto stun. Blaster whip is just more effective than quick shot and you want to emphasize early that scoundrel is a (mostly) melee class.

I get that there is a thing as gradually learning and too much information, but I'm not so condescending as to think the rest of the players are so retarded that they can't handle 4 abilities from the start. You just push random buttons and see what happens, and figure out what works best over time.

 

It doesn't make much sense to give important abilities from levels 2-5 because you're not going to have a class trainer available when you need it.

 

I haven't played enough to get into the ability tree of the discipline, because it starts at level 23. IMO this is also faaaaar too slow to unlock.

 

Example for Ruffian (what I played) :

Level 1, Concussion : This passive pretty much does nothing at level 1 because it buffs stuff you don't have yet.

Level 23, Brutal shots, Pugnacity, Rough and Tumble : Rough and tumble buffs brutal shots, which seems completely pointless and makes the tooltips unnecessarily wordy, just make it baseline cost less and leave the blasterwhip buff on Rough and Tumble. Level 23 is too late for a cornerstone ability like brutal shots, you want that at level 10 at the latest. This isn't some optional mid-game fancy stuff, this is the cornerstone of the spec, the basics. You don't use that, you're not playing ruffian, you're just a weird scoundrel without a spec.

Level 35 : First big choice, option for a hard stun. Now I never agreed with hard stuns being optional in the first place, but level 35 seems particularly high for something so essential. Lacerating blast is and always has been garbage, not sure why you insist on keeping it around.

Level 39 : Shrap Bomb, again seems very late for something so important. Like it's arguably more important than vital shot for this spec, because it's the same except AoE. And if there's one thing you need while levelling, it's good AoE. OTOH vital shot is not important at all to the non-dot specs while levelling, it's just good for fluffing numbers for boss fights in group content, so it does not matter if it unlocks later, or not at all... Shrap Bomb feels like it should be level 10 or something.

 

Not much to say about the rest except, some later level choices seem to be more basic than some of the earlier ones, and everything unlocks far too late.

 

Honestly, part of the problem is everything is spread out over 80 levels, where it only should be 50 at most. That's one of the problems with always adding 5 more levels for every expansion.

 

Here's how I would rearrange things (Ruffian between parentheses):

Level 1 : First Ability (Shrap Bomb)

Level 10 : Second Ability (Brutal Shots) + Any really important passive (looking at you ionic accelerator / curtain of fire)

And by this point you already have an enjoyable, playable spec, and only now, you can start thinking about customizing.

Level 16 : First Ability upgrade

Level 22 : Second Ability upgrade

Level 28 : First choice

Level 34 : Third Ability (Sanguinary Shot)

Level 40 : Second choice

Level 46 : Third choice

Level 52 : Fourth Ability (Point Blank Shot)

Level 60 : Fourth choice <- F2P ends here

Level 68 : Fifth choice

Level 76 : Sixth and final choice, just above the current level cap.

 

 

 

EDIT : one more thing, I've been getting level 7 gear as early quest rewards, when my character was like level 5. This is a bit annoying.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Loc_n_lol

[CrazyScruffy]

Do you know where this information was communicated? Because this is news to me, and many other people i'm in discords and groups and guilds with. They had no idea, and now are upset. If this was changed before, I don't think it was communicated well, if at all.

 

Hi everyone,

 

I recently did an interview with Max and Sema, the content creators behind SWTOR Escape Pod Cast about Combat Styles. We covered quite a bit of information, including the team’s goals and philosophies behind them. Hopefully this interview also addresses lots of questions that y’all have been asking about Combat Styles in general. Below are some high level points that we chatted about:

 

 

• We had the opportunity to take a close look at the state of the game for this release and address things such as balancing classes and the way we developed new abilities, thus opening the door for some fun stuff we can do in the future
  
• Goals of Loadouts and Combat Styles, how many players can have, and our vision behind how they work
  
• How we are managing flexibility and restrictions when it comes to switching Combat Styles
  
• What the player experience is like if the player is brand new to SWTOR
  
• Gearing changes will be coming to level 80, but we aren’t able to share details at this time. This will be something that players can look forward to testing in a future PTS phase
  
• Changes that are coming to Utilities
  
• Light vs Dark alignment and unlocking Light/Dark 5 for Legacy
  
• Excited to share more through PTS and we are looking forward to sharing how all the pieces will fit together
  

 

Definitely check out the interview for all of the details about the above points!

 

Thanks all!

 

Combat Style:

 

 

Was this linked in a Dev post here somewhere? If it wasn't it should have been. This is completely different to what we were told in the livestream. We were given the impression that we'd be able to have additional skills from the either the tech group or force group depending on the class we chose. This podcast reflects what we're seeing on the PTS - we'll have to switch between two specs entirely. I was really hoping that I could pick force choke and stealth abilities to have on my sorcerer along with lightning but this isn't what we're getting.

 

There was no concept of mixing classes anywhere. And I also posted 1 dev post above. and all the content creators and dozens of posters have stated since it was announced that there was not going to a mix of classes. It has always been - Pick your story & pick your combat style. There is no base/advanced classes when 7.0 hits. And you'll still get to choose from 6 trees altogether. So if you choose correctly, you can tank, dps, heals and stealth on 1 toon. that's pretty amazing. So I'm sorry you missed all the updates and what they meant but they didn't just spring this on us with the latest PTS

[Lakemine]

There was no concept of mixing classes anywhere. And I also posted 1 dev post above. and all the content creators and dozens of posters have stated since it was announced that there was not going to a mix of classes. It has always been - Pick your story & pick your combat style. There is no base/advanced classes when 7.0 hits. And you'll still get to choose from 6 trees altogether. So if you choose correctly, you can tank, dps, heals and stealth on 1 toon. that's pretty amazing. So I'm sorry you missed all the updates and what they meant but they didn't just spring this on us with the latest PTS

 

Where they failed is with poor communication. SO MANY PEOPLE in reality think the bare minimum is "good enough" and it ends up ALWAYS causing issues, problems or harm to others. I have yet to see where over communication has a negative outcome.

 

Not ONCE is it listed there "You are limited to only 2 and its permanent, but we will explain why." It is vague. It is DESIGNED to be vague, because deceptive people do not like to be honest. That is the issue. Deceptive marketing. (Then again, I should know better, because BioWare did the same with Anthem AND they are under EA.)

 

And where were the content creators that said this? Because maybe I live under a rock (probably more so true) but the ones I have seen have NEVER mentioned this AT ALL. They kept either saying "I don't know." Or saying that we can switch them. That is nor informative at all.

 

I just don't get why people can not communicate well, and why having poor communication skills is somehow a "good thing" and people continue to get away with it.

 

Edit: Mixing classes as ine sentinal spec on a commando? Yah, we know day 1 of them announcing 7.0 that wasnt the case, had to explain to people "No. Your not getting a gun on your jedi. No your not getting a lightsaber on your sniper." But they presented it as if your a Force user, you can switch to any jedi or sith spec (barring LS/DS requirements) and if your a tech user you can switch to any tech class. "You want to run a rifle? Go for it. You want to run a sniper? Go for it! You want to run a assault cannon? Go for it! One pistol or two? Go for it!" NEVER was it mentioned "BUT you can only pick one."

 

Granted, this new information seems to indicate it changed over a few months, but that is their failing for not communicating. "Hey, we were too ambitious. We have to lock the styles to 2 one only per character, and its permanent. So no, you don't get access to 24 tress anymore, you only get 6."

 

THAT is clear communication. And I fail to see or find that ANYWHERE. Meaning, the failure is on them. (Then again, with their recent silence and non-communication over these changes A LOT of people dislike......that actually seems par for the course of the pattern they have set for their bad reputation.)

 

And I really really really really REALLY don't want this game to fail and face EA's wrath, especially since EA lost the FIFA contract and they won't be making their billions anymore from that, they will be cutting devs and shutting down games to "save costs". And if these changes go live, I fear it might be like a mass exodus like 5.0 did. And the only reason why we had a influx of people......was because of it being released on Steam. I fear that if another mass exodus happens, we won't be able to recover. And I really really really don't want that.

 

Man I really do hope they just delay 7.0 and take more time to work things out, both for us the players sake and the devs sake of time crunch and the backlash against them.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Lakemine

[DWho]

Level 20-30 leveling feels a lot slower than 1-20 did. It is also getting difficult to fairly judge the pace of combat with many abilities stuck on the trainers (You are not a disciple of this trainer). Even logging on and off doesn't fix the issue any more. Will there be a fix for this soon so the evaluation of combat at higher levels can be continued?

 

The slow leveling seems to be due to the new level caps combined with the lower stat caps which makes all of the fights take significantly longer (and with few abilities to use, feels like a slog). I ran into quite a few areas where I was not getting any xp for the npcs killed until I moved on to the next area (on Live, this really only occurred on Tython). It seems on Live, the xp from the various conquest objectives was keeping things moving along. Perhaps it would be a good idea to add back the xp to the Conquest Objectives just at a lower level to provide a little extra push for leveling.

 

Edit: One other thing. I am starting to have issues holding aggro on opponents. This seems to be related to the lack of a significant AOE attack, though it could also be due to the low damage caps.

 

Edit 2: Leaving Levels

Tython: 15 of PTS (17 on Live)

Coruscant: 24 on PTS (27 on Live)

Edited November 12, 2021 by DWho

[Damask_Rose]

My goal right now is to play all of Korriban on live and PTS to compare. I'm not there yet, so I'll leave the quest reward mess for later. Things that I have noticed so far that I don't know what is going on:

 

-Warrior trainer keeps taunting me with "Force Scream" but won't let me train it. I'm not his disciple? In an attempt to make the trainer happy, I clicked on assassin and back to immortal, and a different skill showed up on my skill bar that hadn't been on the trainer at all. Still couldn't train "force scream".

 

-The Bloodfiend is much harder with so few skills. With so few attacks I couldn't generate enough damage and died. When I died it auto-kicked me from the instance and completely reset the trash spawn inside.

 

-Transferred over a lvl 75 to get my legacy back.

--- Can't find heroic moment anywhere. Can't find species emote either.

---Pets and mounts aren't alphabetical in the abilities list with no option so sort them.

---Retrieved an unbound box of cartel armor from her mail and decided to equip it since she is naked. The items went immediately into collections and not into inventory. They should have remained unbound and on a timer.

---Retrieved that armor set from collections and got two copies instead of one. One automatically equipped, the other went into inventory.

 

(I really don't see how this is going to be ready for live next month!)

[Niatina]

I've done the whole Ord Mantell quests with a scoundrel (transferred at level 1 from Live).

I left Ord Mantell in 1 hour and 39 minutes, doing all the quests I could find, without using quick travel, at level 13.

The levelling was enjoyable.

The progression was fun, only thing that should be looked of, imo, is the lack of credit rewards. To few credits. I understand that the economy has high inflation, but this way new players will not be able to buy anything.

I haven't tried the combat styles since the system never presented me the opportunity to select another combat style, other than Scrapper Scoundrel.

The UI should be polished (out of topic).

Good job for now.

[DWho]

Final Feedback on Combat Sentinel (stopped just short of lvl 29)

 

1) Combat: meaningful combat abilities are granted too slowly resulting in very tedious combat and a very slow feel to leveling. The character is missing it's main "crowd control" ability until much later which results in chasing down enemies that attack your companion on a consistent basis. There does not seem to be enough threat generated to keep these enemies from running to a ranged companion and with the limited mobility of the class at low levels, you spend a lot of time running (or slow walking depending on the enemy) to the next target. Combat is also not smooth and having Lance as a core combat ability in these levels makes it worse. The ability has a delay in activation and a delay in completion which disrupts the flow of combat at higher levels, when you have enough abilities to have some semblance of a combat sequence. It is much more suited as a finisher

 

Recommendation: Revert back to the pace of abilities granted between level 1 and 10 on live (the actual abilities as well as the levels granted). If delaying abilities is needed, keep the same order of abilities granted and put in a skip level here and there where nothing is granted. To feel like a combat sentinel you need to leave Tython with the level 1-10 abilities you have on Live. Swapping the acrobatic ability Blade Barrage for Lance in the abilities tree would also make the class feel more fluid.

 

2) Leveling: Leveling is alright with XP boosts but feels very slow without them. This leads to a slow down in Personal Conquest as well for leveling characters since XP and CXP for completing levels seems to have kept things moving along and avoided "dead spots" where not much CXP is gained. The first 50-75K is fast but the last 25K can be quite tedious once the big hitters for Mission, and the two rampages, are used up. I can see people stopping leveling once these Objectives complete and switching to another character if they have one (not good for play continuity)

 

Recommendations: Add back some XP/CXP for completing the conquest objective (maybe 25% of what is on live) to keep both the XP and CXP tracks moving along. Provide XP boosts for competing Planetary missions.

 

3) Mobility: There is a distinct slow feel to the combat sentinel on the PTS. It should be a fast hitting acrobatic class but it feels more often like you are slogging through molasses in combat and waiting on cooldowns. Once you get Zealous Strike, you have no energy management issues since there are so few "good" abilities to use it with on the PTS. The energy bar is at max almost the entire combat. The class could use a speed boost of some sort in the level 15-20 range where you start encountering groups of enemies that are split up and using ranged weapons.

 

Recomendation: Move Transcendence to a lower level to give the character a means to boost movement speed during combat.

 

4) Damage: After hitting Coruscant, there was a distinct issue with controlling opponent attacks on the companion. On the PTS, there is difficulty in maintaining "aggro" on more than one opponent for the sentinel. This feeds into several of the above issues as well (need for mobility, pace of combat, pace of leveling) with having to combat "run" to distant opponents.

 

Recommendation: Take a look at the Mastery and Power caps and make sure they are high enough that the sentinel can generate enough threat to hold a group of opponents. With uncapped Critical on live, the sentinel seems to generate a lot more threat so perhaps increasing this cap as well would help with Threat generation. Move Force Sweep to a lower level (this is a nice acrobatic ability that is very effective in maintaining threat on a small group).

 

Conclusions: All in all, the Combat Sentinel on the PTS feels like a squishy version of the Guardian. slow and ponderous but without the heavy defenses of the Guardian. The Combat Sentinel should be the "flash" class with lots of acrobatic abilities and the ability to hit hard and fast though not necessarily sustain that output until higher levels.

[SithKoriandr]

Tried to do some leveling, but seems still to much WIP. Got the Wettle mission, but he wasn't talking to my Consular Juggernaut, tried to switch to Sage (second style) and it wouldn't switch (couldn't switch on the outfitter either).

 

Did something, no idea what, which seemed to train up to get abilities tho.

 

That all said...love love love single blade melee Consular

[SunakoValentine]

Tried to level but.. Couldn't find any trainers on the starter planet. My friend who ran Operative kept dying sadly.

[HKtheindomitable]

Playing as a Vanguard Plasmatech.

First set of feedback.

• This will include some bugs.
  
• For this test, I've decided to only play class story and primary story missions, no planetary missions or other side quests. I want to see how far I get before I need to do side quests.
  
• I'm also not doing any exploration or traveling than is necessary.
  
• No XP boosters are being used.
  
• Bonus missions will only be completed if they are completed by going to the objective, this excludes multi-stage bonus missions.
  
• I will be grabbing any lore objects that are in plain view along the paths taken. Nothing has been transferred as regards gear or anything else.
  
• This is a 100% fresh character copy (providing gear 'n stuff didn't occur to me before character copy, okay? ).
  
• This may get rather wordy, but hopefully won't be moment-by-moment.
  
• I am running the same character on Live to compare. No guild, no boosters. Only what current 6.x gives.
  

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Found bugs:

Fortification has the wrong icon in the abilities list. The buff has the correct Havoc Squad symbol, but the icon in the abilities list is that of the Knight class buff.

It would seem that items sold to a vendor disappear from the "buy back" tab after logging out.

Slicing resource node gathering is bugged. Jorgan and my character would "gather", but nothing would happen after.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will also reiterate what was said in the Trooper feedback thread: Cryo Grenade and Storm (for DPs) should not be in this list as options. Storm is a requirement, it was granted because Vanguards are melee and had no gap closer. Idk if someone has the idea that "if you're playing a smuggler or agent, they shouldn't have it", but yes they should, because they're playing Vanguard spec. And Cryo Grenade is the hard/long single-target stun. Why is this optional?

/rant

 

• So far the rate of leveling has been fairly steady. I just met with Havoc Squad at Fort Garnik and after Jorgan talks with the player, I hit level 4. The pacing of earning levels feels good so far.
   
  
• I'm already getting level 7 gear at level 4 from mission rewards. I find that strange, but it's possible that had I done the side quests, I would be closer to that level. So it's not a bad thing, especially since the leveling is quick. I caught up to it within two missions. It definitely gives value to the gear I'm picking up, something to strive for, and another reason to want to do side quests.
  
• Earning such gear and a bit of a slower rate has made the vendors more useful than in 6.0. In 6.0 they're only useful for selling junk to and maybe grabbing stuff for the outfit designer.
  
• Having only Hammer Shot and Ion Pulse until level 4 feels odd. Being used to current live setup is definitely an influence at this stage. This will take some getting used to.
  
• It's nice having Plasma Cell from the start rather than later on.
  
• Not having to go to the trainer to upgrade abilities feels strange, it makes them practically useless. I know this is true of current main game, but now that we go even longer without gaining new abilities it feels like they're unnecessary.
  
• The upgradable weapon given by the class story is now useful again. Meaning I don't feel like I'm about to out level the thing in an instant, or that I already have by the time I have it.
  
• Finished Ord Mantell, I was level matched with the NPCs. I wasn't over leveled. That was a lot of fun because I had to use the medpacks the game gives. Those are completely useless in current 6.x, even when doing only planetary story. I enjoyed the challenge and didn't feel like I was face-rolling everything. Of course, I don't have all datacrons and other class buffs which is a bunch.
  
• Storm really needs to be part of the main skill set, and needs to be granted early like Force Leap/Charge is for Knight/Warrior. Up to current 6.x in live it isn't much of an issue with so many abilities so early. However the reduction right now on PTS, which isn't a bad thing, really needs something like Storm to make it less of a drag when getting close to enemies for this melee class. Hammer Shot is the only long range ability available until 15, and so it's all you use for several key presses. It's also the only ability besides Ion Pulse that doesn't have a CD. So that makes the class a bit tedious to play. Even by the time of Coruscant. And it gets more tedious when your ranged companion is getting beaten by a melee enemy and I have to run all 30+m back at regular run speed. I cannot stress enough how much Storm NEEDS to be a requirement (maybe even an early one), NOT an option. It would be good to have abilities for pre-x level or until replaced by an ability. Like Full Auto until you get Storm or something. Abilities that help with things like long range until you have more long range abilities/required gap closers. This is especially true when enemies use a slow on you. I remember that used to be a thing for a while, and it gave a sense of "I'm upgrading/advancing, learning new stuff."
  
• By the end of PTS Ord Mantell, I had only Hammer Shot, Ion Pulse, Stock Strike, and Ion Wave. On Live I ended at level 9 with Hammer Shot, Ion Pulse, Stock Strike, HIB, Flak Shell, Artillery Blitz, and Ion Wave. The variety of abilities on Live vs PTS is noticeable. The level discrepancy is due to more folks on Live resulting less mobs to encounter.
  
• On PTS I finished Coruscant up to boarding my ship (didn't talk to C2). I found it odd to continue getting level 7 gear even though I was level 14. The difference made by the change on PTS is noticeable. On PTS I had to spend time doing it. This isn't necessarily a bad thing.
  
• On Live I completed "Introduction to Conquest" upon hitting level 11 by spending a Utility Point. For some reason my Personal Conquest rewarded me twice in addition to the mission.
  
• On Live I finished Coruscant up to boarding my ship (didn't talk to C2). I was level 14 and the tedium of spamming the same two abilities was gone. I only hit 14 because of the conquest mission, and lack of mobs. This is simply a population thing, so no complaints.
  

 

Current PTS summary: Gaining XP and levels is as it should be. Gear earned is not slow or useless. The lack of abilities by comparison to Live causes tedium in combat, especially with not having Storm. Yes I know Storm isn't granted until later in Live as well, however it would be better than the few granted currently as a main ability, not an option. Other abilities that are automatically replaced/removed after reaching a certain level would be helpful for reducing tedium and making up for no gap closing. I will post again with more later (hopefully).

[Jedi_riches]

 

[*]I'm already getting level 7 gear at level 4 from mission rewards. I find that strange, but it's possible that had I done the side quests, I would be closer to that level. So it's not a bad thing, especially since the leveling is quick. I caught up to it within two missions. It definitely gives value to the gear I'm picking up, something to strive for, and another reason to want to do side quests.

 

No side quests don't help I tried a inquisitor and did do all side quests and I was still only level 4 getting level 7 rewards, perhaps with a xp boost and guild boost gets you there on time but those should be optional.

[Darev]

I'm also not happy about the slow rollout of abilities as you start a new toon.

You're not making anything more difficult, just making it take longer.

[bryanskrantz]

So I created a Vanguard with a Sniper combat style. There's no way to train that right now and since there's no way to go to the Fleet because no Fleet Droid on Ord Mantel right now there's no point in testing that at the moment. Edited November 15, 2021 by bryanskrantz

[arunav]

If the class and planetary mission rewards are changing, please give these sets to crafters.

 

4.0 already took out most of the original drops that were seen in the loot table from 1.0-3.x, from FPs, quest rewards, crafting schematics, etc. What was left was mostly limited to class story and planetary arc rewards, alongside the same models used for FP drops and heroic boxes at various level ranges.

 

I think for the 10th anniversary, all the 1.0 crafting schematics for Synthweaving and Armormech should be brought back, even if just temporarily, thus allowing folks to mix/match original 1.0-3.x SWTOR gear with their CM sets.

 

But if this isn't done, at least give crafters the current class mission and planetary arc mission reward sets.

 

These are the ones named for each planet/level range: Requisitioned, Aftermarket, Carbon-Scored, Decorated, etc., all the way through to Fractured. After this is Yavin gear, which I believe has the same appearance as the Alliance Yavin heroic crate gear, and then the Outlander gear starts, which isn't particularly relevant to the original game's class-specific aesthetic.

 

In short, and this is an argument I've made for a long time, folks just like having multiple cosmetic options. In-game rewards don't replace the attractiveness of CM armors, or why players buy and unlock those in Collections. We get 16 outfit tabs currently, and having a couple with in-game, launch-era looks doesn't lose BW money - there aren't a couple CM sets that would have taken their place. The current in-game gear, what's left of it, just adds to players' satisfaction with their characters, and rewards gameplay better.

 

Maybe make the older gear sets subscriber-only if you like, but please leave them in the game. Transferring them to Synthweaving and Armormech is another option. I doubt you could put them all in the CM even if you wanted to, but this is an option too, I suppose.

Edited November 17, 2021 by arunav

[WARDOD]

I started a COMMANDO and played up Level 10 At that point I was asked to add a new combact style .. I tried to accept a POWERTECH

immediately I find myself without the right weapons and without money to buy them ..

so I decide to put the combact style back to commando .. cliking in combact style does NOT work !!!

 

that is, it allows me to switch from tank to dps but not to return to the original commando ..

is it a bug or am I not understanding something?

 

In any case, the leveling experience up to 10 is normal, nothing to say ..

 

I would just say that allowing you to change DEFINITIVE fighting style already at level 10 seems premature to me, a new user may not understand what he is doing and regret the change made in the future.

[Xina_LA]

I didn't see a thread for feedback on the character creation UI and I know it's still a work in progress, but I wanted to leave some feedback in case a couple of these items aren't on a "fix list".

 

The most important one: LIGHTING

Please do not put colored lighting in character creation. Right now, there's Imperial red lighting on everything. I want to know what my character's skin, hair, and eye colors will look like in the game. The ambient red lighting is making them look completely different and I was unhappy with the results once I logged in for the first time. Please change to a neutral lighting color.

 

Second biggest: ZOOM AND TURN

There's no way to zoom in or turn the character. On my PC monitor, I can't make out eye color, scars, or complexion at all. I can't see the back of hair styles to know what they'll really look like. In addition to mouse controls, please make sure there are zoom and turn buttons, as some mouse wheels don't work great with SWTOR. I'm guessing this will be added later...

 

Third biggest: HAIR STYLES

The twist/crochet hair style shows way too much skin between rows. It doesn't look that way in real life and it looks really strange in the game. Please show less bare skin at the base of the braids, as it makes us look like we have serious scalp issues. There are some large bald patches in the back, perhaps because the hair model isn't sitting quite right on my female Operative's head.

 

Now on to early leveling...

Edited November 17, 2021 by Xina_LA

[Xina_LA]

I created an Operative and put her in the Bounty Hunter story. I'm really excited about that story/class combination.

 

Where's The Beef?

I went out into Ord Mantel. I literally finished the first mission, gained a level, and completed the "Cleaning Up Jiguuna" achievement before any of Fa'athra's dead minions dropped loot. That seems like a lot fewer drops than before. By 6, not a single usable gear drop. I wouldn't mind picking up less trash and "cleanup clicking" less often, but the mobs, when they do finally drop loot, need to drop a lot more credits to make up for the lack.

 

Travel Terminals?

Why are there travel terminals anywhere on the map? They're automatically unlocked by proximity. I'm not sure why there are still clickable items all over the place.

 

Boooooring.... ZZzzzZZzzz

Tools of the Trade... Report to Zinny... Purple triangle over her map location... but she's not talking. I get to adventure around the map pushing my one and only attack button. Why do people think I'm some kind of elite bounty hunter when all I can do is stand there and exchange blaster fire?

 

Sit, Stay... Bad Bar!

The icon bar (login rewards, mail, friends online, etc.) still won't stay where it's put!

 

Medpack? Cool!

If all characters start with a Medpac in their inventory, go ahead and pre-link that in the ability bar. I needed to use one to beat a group of 3 "Vexx's Thugs" because there's no tactics and just one attack button so far, and a new player might not have known they even had one to use.

 

Run, Run, Run...!

Quick Travel ought to be pre-linked on the ability bar. It's a useful and important feature.

 

Alphanume-what?

The Abilities UI doesn't sort pets, General, or Operative abilities in alphabetical order. It's hard to find what I'm looking for. I'd like to be able to sort, please! Sort pets and mounts by Alphabetical and Newest; sort General and Operative by Alphabetical, Active/Passive, and Level.

 

What Do I Do With This?

The class mission reward for a level 4 mission was a level 7+ chest piece. I can't use it, even though I did all the non-class and bonus missions I found along the way. That's incredibly frustrating. I shouldn't have to nearly double my level with trash mobs to use class mission rewards.

 

Where Did The Mats Go?

The crafting materials should be a 4th tab in the Inventory UI. It's very confusing that I have to go to the Inventory tab and then click a Gem icon to pop open another window. If it's another window, it ought to have its own menu item on the main UI bar, but it doesn't. It's a strange, not intuitive hybrid.

 

More later...

Edited November 17, 2021 by Xina_LA

[xordevoreaux]

cliking in combact style does NOT work !!!

Try switching in a sanctuary such as a cantina or area not anywhere near hostile NPCs.

Edited November 17, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[DWho]

So I spent some time leveling a high level character (lvl 75 Combat Sentinel) and the issues are pretty much the same as with low level ones. There is a lack of mobility (other than force leap which has a minimum distance requirement and can be negated by several classes), almost no ranged attack (twin saber throw is it and it has a pretty long cooldown), and the cooldowns, in general, end up severely disrupting any kind of combat sequence you may have (you end up using strike a lot because it is the only thing available after the first pass through the combat sequence). I think Alacrity is capped to hard on the PTS. The cap doesn't affect most other classes as much as the carnage marauder and combat sentinel which are very dependent on fast action sequences. These two have gone from fun to play specs to one of the more boring to play ones.

[GritHazard]

If the class and planetary mission rewards are changing, please give these sets to crafters.

 

4.0 already took out most of the original drops that were seen in the loot table from 1.0-3.x, from FPs, quest rewards, crafting schematics, etc. What was left was mostly limited to class story and planetary arc rewards, alongside the same models used for FP drops and heroic boxes at various level ranges.

 

I think for the 10th anniversary, all the 1.0 crafting schematics for Synthweaving and Armormech should be brought back, even if just temporarily, thus allowing folks to mix/match original 1.0-3.x SWTOR gear with their CM sets.

 

But if this isn't done, at least give crafters the current class mission and planetary arc mission reward sets.

 

These are the ones named for each planet/level range: Requisitioned, Aftermarket, Carbon-Scored, Decorated, etc., all the way through to Fractured. After this is Yavin gear, which I believe has the same appearance as the Alliance Yavin heroic crate gear, and then the Outlander gear starts, which isn't particularly relevant to the original game's class-specific aesthetic.

 

In short, and this is an argument I've made for a long time, folks just like having multiple cosmetic options. In-game rewards don't replace the attractiveness of CM armors, or why players buy and unlock those in Collections. We get 16 outfit tabs currently, and having a couple with in-game, launch-era looks doesn't lose BW money - there aren't a couple CM sets that would have taken their place. The current in-game gear, what's left of it, just adds to players' satisfaction with their characters, and rewards gameplay better.

 

Maybe make the older gear sets subscriber-only if you like, but please leave them in the game. Transferring them to Synthweaving and Armormech is another option. I doubt you could put them all in the CM even if you wanted to, but this is an option too, I suppose.

 

What's truly annoying about this is as I mentioned previously, there's not even a statistical difference. Other than level requirements, the gear I've seen thus far has no statistical difference. Which makes these replacement sets and items pointless. You know the lv 7 Lightsaber everyone's complaining about? The stats are + 5 Mastery, + 5 Endurance, + 2 Power, and + 2 Crit if your dps. Sound familiar? That's because it's the SAME stats as the Apprentice Force-Lord's Practice Blade... which has... + 5 Mastery, + 5 Endurance, + 2 Power, and + 2 Crit...

 

It's the same with the chest you get on the next quest, Tythonian Battle Jacket: + 5 Mastery, + 5 Endurance, + 2 Power, + 2 Crit. Apprentice Pummeler's Chestguard MK-1: + 5 Mastery, + 5 Endurance, + 2 Power, + 2 Crit. So again, same stats, except now I'll no longer like a Jedi, but a Smuggler. Why? And it continues from here. Don't believe me? Look for yourself in the PTS, and compare it to the live items which swtor.jedipedia.net will all have on there. Or even look on live to see the items if you want.

 

Bottom line, this change at best redundant, and at worst completely pointless. Still have not seen word on this being addressed. The items are all already adaptive anyways, so you don't even need to account for armor differences! Don't fix what isn't broken, keep these items in the game please. Please and thank you.

[arunav]

Instead of removing these SWTOR advanced class looks from the game, please either leave them as subscriber-only rewards, on a vendor as a good credit sink (with prices so high new player populations you might seek to recruit into SWTOR are forced to use the current PTS reward gear, or buy CM items to sell for them), or, something I would be most in favor of, place the sets on a vendor and add them all to Collections like the Alliance crate gear will soon be.

 

This is a list of each gear set, each with a separate look on the Republic or Imperial faction:

 

1) Coruscant/Dromund Kaas: Requisitioned

2) Taris/Balmorra: Tarnished

3) Nar Shaddaa: Aftermarket

4) Tatooine: Carbon-Scored

5) Alderaan: Decorated

6) Balmorra/Taris: Battle-Scarred

7) Quesh: Toxic

8) Hoth: Thermal

9) Belsavis: Unleashed

10) Voss: Visionary

11) Corellia: Corellian

12) Ilum: Crystalline

13) Makeb: Fractured

 

The 4 starter planets also have sets for each class, but I'm not completely sure of the names. They include Apprentice and Accurate gear, though, in the titles (Apprentice Force-Lord, Accurate Boltblaster, etc.).

 

While I appreciate the game has to make a decent profit, I think almost all your subscribers would disagree with all class-specific leveling gear being replaced by generic looks being a reasonable part of that endeavor. If they were all available in the CM for a fraction of the typical set's price, I suppose one could justify it, if the game is really in poor financial circumstances. Only folks with every 1.0-3.x crafting schematic will be able to make most of these looks for themselves, and only if they reverse engineered every set in the 1.x-3.x period. This is an unreasonable barrier, considering 3.0 launched in December of 2014, and was the last expansion these schematics were available.

 

As stated in another post in this thread, update 4.0 already took out the majority of 1.0-3.x cosmetic items from quests, FPs, heroics, and crafting schematics. What's left of them are almost entirely included in the above list.

 

As you're making final design decisions for 7.x, please consider this cosmetic one. We currently get 16 outfit tabs per character, and may see more in the future. I'm fairly confident players get the really nice CM sets because they often look leaps and bounds better than anything from the launch-era of the game, or more generally the current in-game rewards. At the same time, with so many outfit slots, some players enjoy having a couple of tabs dedicated to classic looks on their characters, too. The two don't compete against one another, as they're appealing for very different reasons.

 

I think I have every CM Jedi and Sith set unlocked, and still enjoy using some of the older gear in a few tabs on most Force-using characters. Personally, it reminds me of playing during the earlier years of the game. Others may use these sets for RP, to better match NPCs when making a video or taking a screenshot, to mix/match pieces with CM sets, or any number of other reasons subscribers make an aesthetic choice. It simply makes your game worse for players when that choice is removed.

 

Thanks for reading this and the feedback generally.

Edited November 19, 2021 by arunav

[SteveTheCynic]

I won't discuss the various things already mentioned, other to say that it was surprising when Xalari the Assassin-Warrior got her Warblade from the tomb, and discovered it was a double-bladed lightsabre.

 

Er, and then had to lie to Overseer Tremel about how she had enjoyed using her new lightsabre, er, Warblade, since she couldn't use it because it's a level 7+ weapon and she was only level 3 when she got it.

 

But on the way there, she met the PBS assistant overseer lady and was told to see the trainer upstairs. Up she went, and...

* The former warrior trainer is still a warrior trainer, but wouldn't speak to Xalari at all, seeing as how she's really an Assassin.

* The former inquisitor trainer was happy to talk to her, but didn't have anything to offer.

* The trainer-introduction mission, of course, requires Xalari to speak to the former Warrior trainer who won't speak to her.

 

So, in summary:

* Broken missions.

* Broken gear rewards. (Level 7+ stuff on characters who are only level 3-4.)

* Broken ability progression. As far as I can see, Xalari is stuck with *three* abilities and without Stealth until at least level 23.

* Broken UI (the inventory is very reluctant to close when I press Esc)

* To be released in less than four weeks. Good luck with that, guys, you'll need it.

 

EDIT: I was hoping to be able to progress far enough between now and the end of PTS to be able to hear Dri'kill Ba'al blither to a stealthy assassin about how she isn't a stealthy assassin, but seeing as how poor Xalari won't be able to stealth yet at that point ...

Edited November 20, 2021 by SteveTheCynic

[-Glyndo-]

I created a new L1 on PTS as a Sith Warrior/Juggernaught. I was surprised when I was immediately able to hit the button at L1 and choose my second combat style. Even more interesting was that I was able to choose from any of the force styles. But that isn't what really made me raise an eyebrow.

 

What really surprised me was that I was given the option, at L1, to change my primary style from Jugg to Jedi Guardian. Something I had not seen on any of the tech classes I tried it on.

 

So my question is, why can force users swap their primary style, even with no force alignment, but tech classes cannot?

[Ramalina]

I tried to take a look at SWTOR from a new player sort of viewpoint. If this were a game I had never played before, but considering I have experience with other MMORPGs, how does a starter planet look and feel?

 

So here it is, Consular, Shadow, Kinetic Combat to the end of Tython.

 

• Character creation menu not centered on wide screen format displays.
   
  
• Character creation menu lacks icons.
   
  
• Character creation menu becomes hard to read with character model in background, note, moving the text/icon/selection icons more to the side rather than trying to center them would help with this, so my first point may not be an issue other than that the graphic design implies that it's meant to be centered and just isn't implemented for all screen sizes yet. Either center the interface and do something with the character model so it doesn't impair readability of text, or make a proper sidebar type interface that's not overlaid on the model. Current setup combines the worst of the centered design approach with the worst of the sidebar design approach.
  
• Placeholder text still in menus, though slightly funny that all Consular specs are now Corruption spec no matter the role or mechanics.
   
  
• Unable to zoom in and out or rotate character model in creation screen in order to see full effects of choices (I promise new players will be pissed about body types if the current version goes live).
   
  
• Upon reaching level two, the tutorial automatically pops up telling you how to visit a class trainer and train abilities, however you do not gain any abilities to go train. This is poor game design. Instruction and practice should be provided at the same time. A particularly bad oversight since you were moving around which levels abilities are granted for 7.0 in any case. Character starts with 3 attacks, any one of which suffices to get to level 2, one of them should be taken off the initial selection and granted at level 2 in order to train at a trainer.
   
  
• New player could be forgiven for coming to the conclusion that leveling does basically nothing in SWTOR, and that gear is purely cosmetic. More gear by level 5 through class quests, and at least one ability to learn and train somewhere in the 1-5 range (preferably synced with the tutorial pop-up) would be good.
   
  
• As others have pointed out, quest rewards that are unusable for 2 to 4 levels as quest rewards is poor level scaling. Giving a level 3 or 5 level item at level 4 is fine, level 7 not so much. Side note on this, if a naive player blunders into a starter planet heroic at say level 5-6, which is entirely doable, being unable to equip the gear they've gotten so far makes a HUGE difference in difficulty level. Going from level 6 and basically no stats from gear, to level seven and appropriate stats from gear is probably more transformational than you want it to be for a new player experience. Gap is not quite as big as that between story mode FPs and HM raids, but it is very significant. Granted wandering into the heroics too early is sort of an edge case, but there's really nothing to steer a new player away from doing that.
  
• Inventory auto-sort bug still exists.
   
  
• A tutorial page about UI and quickbars should show up a bit earlier. The Default UI runs into lack of functionality issues before leaving the first planet. Advanced UI is significantly better, but a new player wouldn't know it's there without some menu crawling, which isn't really what you want for an early game experience.
   
  
• I'm used to it by now, but dear god the lighting in the character outfit previewer is terrible. Unless you want to know how your outfit looks in a dark grimy alley somewhere on Nal Hutta, in which case it's quite appropriate. Not a good new player experience I think. Brighter primary light(slightly brighter), better fill lighting, and a sort of neutral backdrop (current one is a bit too dark, and very too blue, light gray is boring yes but probably would be more functional here). For that matter, a straight up copy and paste from the character sheet page would be a vast improvement.
   
  
• World Map. The magnified cursor sort of sucks. A normal scroll zoom would be vastly superior. From a new user perspective, this is functionally that a new user could reasonably have expected to be standard in games before they were born.
   
  
• Built in Inventory screen in Character Sheet extends past border of Character Sheet pane, looks very amateurish.
   
  
• Getting Smuggler and Trooper armor drops from Jedi Consular quests presents some fairly serioius immersion breaking issues. It's fine if those are options, but lack of actual consular themed gear is a problem. One of the strongest assets of the Star Wars IP is the tradition of consistency and attention to detail in world building. If this were a new game being submitted for licencing, and I worked for Lucasfilm, I would not issue a licence based on the PTS starter planets. Too sloppy to pass muster for a Star Wars property. Bioware already has a licence, but based on the IP franchise new players will have expectations about consistency with the Star Wars universe, and shoe-horning Jedi classes into Trooper gear will violate those expectations. It gives a bad first impression. On the other hand, if you want to give OPTIONS to dress like a trooper, that's fine, provided the baseline class themed gear is there as well.
   
  
• Over-all things are working more or less o.k., but there's a serious issue with lack of polish that comes from deciding to redo a host of game systems that were already functional and polished. It feels like skilled developers started making an MMORPG in the WoW mold, but went on vacation before it was done and their 10-16 year old kids decided to try to finish it. There's a working foundation, but a lot of user interface and user experience items are in a state where it's very very obvious that they are WIP (and I mean elements that don't have WIP labels) or possibly designed by people who don't know what they're doing. If it looks like this on the 14th, I can almost guarantee you that any new players will come to the conclusion that, "don't know what they're doing," is the correct answer. Even if you leave the WIP labels in, it's likely they'll think that that's the case, because you've been marketing this as an expansion, not as a live Play Test/early Beta build. For things as basic as menu interfaces to be this unfinished in a game over 9 years old, looks really bad as a first impression.
  

 

 

You've got 2 and a half weeks to fix it. Good luck, you're going to need it.

[SteveTheCynic]

So my question is, why can force users swap their primary style, even with no force alignment, but tech classes cannot?

On PTS, probably to allow us (and the studio) to test the swap-to-mirror option.