BioWare, GTN prices are insane, its time to do something

[Levanchar]

How about more credit sinks?

 

I personally like how you can use credits or cartel coins to unlock character perks, strongholds and galactic seasons.

 

Why not expand this to unlocking collections and toon changes such as names and appearances?

 

It shouldn't hurt BioWare's bottom line much as I hazard a guess they earn more from subscription fees than ad hoc cartel coin purchases.

 

Another idea would be to make the Cartel Market compete with the GTN by making items more affordable. Using the subscriber reward of ~500-600 coins per month, why not set the average price of most items to that to encourage more players to shop on the Cartel Market?

 

I acknowledge its not fullproof and could be exploited by players who buy from the Cartel Market, hoard it for a while then sell at ridiculous prices on the GTN, or even outright bartering between players.

 

Yet by lowering Cartel Market item prices, you can redirect demand away from the GTN and let players buy on their own terms whatever flavor of the month items they are interested in.

[Calwred]

also how about blocking credits from outside sources like the credit sellers, they are part of the problem, now their biggest buyers are people with subs

[forceapply]

also how about blocking credits from outside sources like the credit sellers, they are part of the problem, now their biggest buyers are people with subs

 

They aren't just part of the problem, they are the problem. They are getting credits from an exploit/dupe and are the reason for the inflation. Bioware either can't do anything about it or just lacks the resources to do anything.

[Sazodeha]

So they should change the entire economy to suit the players that play for free? ruining it for the paying customers??

 

Ya..No

 

The economy is fine. You want to be able to navigate it, pay a subscription and stop complaining. The economy IS NOT broken, it's supply and demand and works as it should. The demand drives the price, the supply drives the price. etc.

 

Asking dev to come in and "Nerf" or restrict the economy because the people who do not pay to even play while those of us that do get screwed in the process is bad business.

[MystyqeofXev]

They are getting credits from an exploit/dupe

 

I'm not saying you are wrong, in fact I agree with you without any tangible evidence. However, there are those who claim there is no duping / exploiting of credits, and the massive influx is due to drops in quests / OPs selling for large amounts.

 

Not sure I agree with the latter. I can sell my entire evening's run for (if I'm lucky) 100K if I run multiple OPs, multiple H +'s and sell everything (nothing on the GTN). 100K is poverty level in this game.

[JakRoanin]

So they should change the entire economy to suit the players that play for free? ruining it for the paying customers??

 

Ya..No

 

The economy is fine. You want to be able to navigate it, pay a subscription and stop complaining.

 

I am a Subscriber! Guess what there is NOT enough supply to meet demand! Why? Because of EXPLOITERS. They should be punished, the problem is because of what they do and did, the rest of us innocent players can only suffer the punishment to to fix the messthey made

[MystyqeofXev]

Because of EXPLOITERS. They should be punished, the problem is because of what they do and did, the rest of us innocent players can only suffer the punishment to to fix the messthey made

 

There are those in this thread who would maintain that there are no dupes or exploits. I would respectfully disagree.

 

SOMETHING mid-6.0 changed dramatically, causing prices to skyrocket. Stimulus checks? Well, maybe, but if they're buying from 3rd party sellers, then the money simply exchanges hands. CM? Not for the initial purchase, just the re-sell.

 

To assume that this nine year old (+) game has no credit dupes or exploits is to live in a fool's paradise.

[JakRoanin]

Because of EXPLOITERS. They should be punished, the problem is because of what they do and did, the rest of us innocent players can only suffer the punishment to to fix the messthey made

 

There are those in this thread who would maintain that there are no dupes or exploits. I would respectfully disagree.

 

SOMETHING mid-6.0 changed dramatically, causing prices to skyrocket. Stimulus checks? Well, maybe, but if they're buying from 3rd party sellers, then the money simply exchanges hands. CM? Not for the initial purchase, just the re-sell.

 

To assume that this nine year old (+) game has no credit dupes or exploits is to live in a fool's paradise.

 

You can literally type SWTOR exploits in this forums search to know what they are. Or YouTube as well they are documented.

[MystyqeofXev]

You can literally type SWTOR exploits in this forums search to know what they are. Or YouTube as well they are documented.

 

You're going to get voted off the island if you utter a disparaging word, or even worse, bring common sense and logic to the conversation.

[TrixxieTriss]

You can literally type SWTOR exploits in this forums search to know what they are. Or YouTube as well they are documented.

 

If you’d played the game for years, you’d know by now that know most of the of those are scams to steal your account.

[TrixxieTriss]

Because of EXPLOITERS. They should be punished, the problem is because of what they do and did, the rest of us innocent players can only suffer the punishment to to fix the messthey made

 

There are those in this thread who would maintain that there are no dupes or exploits. I would respectfully disagree.

 

SOMETHING mid-6.0 changed dramatically, causing prices to skyrocket. Stimulus checks? Well, maybe, but if they're buying from 3rd party sellers, then the money simply exchanges hands. CM? Not for the initial purchase, just the re-sell.

 

To assume that this nine year old (+) game has no credit dupes or exploits is to live in a fool's paradise.

 

There are currently no credit dupes or credit exploits.

 

BioWare have categorically stated the excess credits are being generated by people doing conquest. That is why they will be nerfing the credit rewards in 7.0.

 

You can keep on harping about conspiracies or get get a tin foil hat 🎩

Edited November 4, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[septru]

I am a Subscriber! Guess what there is NOT enough supply to meet demand! Why? Because of EXPLOITERS. They should be punished, the problem is because of what they do and did, the rest of us innocent players can only suffer the punishment to to fix the messthey made

 

The Swtorista video you yourself link over and over again to prove the existence of exploiters mentions that there have been no credit exploits since 2017. There was one item duplication exploit in 2019, but that if any helped relieve inflation, not increase it. None of these exploits help account for why, for example, the GTN has doubled in price in the last 6 months.

 

The simple fact is that credits are not created magically or by some malicious exploitation or conspiracy. Inflation is being caused by the everyday farming of credits by everyday players.

Edited November 4, 2021 by septru

[TrixxieTriss]

I am a Subscriber! Guess what there is NOT enough supply to meet demand! Why? Because of EXPLOITERS. They should be punished, the problem is because of what they do and did, the rest of us innocent players can only suffer the punishment to to fix the messthey made

 

The only lack of supply is not enough “free” CM items on the GTN to keep inflation down.

 

What do I mean by “free?”.

 

Before there was an abundance of free CC’s generated by the referral system. Since that system has been shuttered, inflation has increased dramatically because there are less free CC to buy CM items to supply the GTN market.

 

I used to personally get around 2000 cartel coins a month from my referral link on the forums. And I was a small fish who never spammed referrals in gen chat for credits. Those guys could and were getting 10s of thousands of Free cartel coins a month.

 

When you remove 100.000’s of free CC coins out of the supply chain each month, there will eventually be a shortage of supply to the GTN. BioWare tried to offset this by adding CC as rewards in GS. But the amount players got from GS was much smaller than the referral program added to the economy.

 

So now we have a short supply problem that Bioware artificially generated by shuttering the referral program, plus the excessive amounts of credits that conquest is apparently generating too without having enough substantial and consistent credit sinks in the game.

 

That is what’s causing the hyperinflation and if some of the people here actually spent some time to learn about economics instead of reading conspiracies on Facebook, we’d all be better off.

Edited November 4, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[MystyqeofXev]

The simple fact is that credits are not created magically or by some malicious exploitation or conspiracy. Inflation is being caused by the everyday farming of credits by everyday players.

 

So people are playing the game, and some have figured out how to make money?

 

What's the issue then? That there's nothing to buy? That some play the game and have a lot of money, and others sit on fleet and beg for money?

 

People play alts? So nerfing the mechanism by which alts acquire {goods} is going to solve the problem?

 

************

 

In today's life lesson, we learn some people are bad at making money in a MMORPG.

Edited November 4, 2021 by MystyqeofXev

[JakRoanin]

The Swtorista video you yourself link over and over again to prove the existence of exploiters mentions that there have been no credit exploits since 2017.

 

Are you saying that there are no long-term effects from the past exploits? Because if you are, then we didn't watch the same video.

[JakRoanin]

Are you saying that there are no long-term effects from the past exploits? Because if you are, then we didn't watch the same video.

 

That is what’s causing the hyperinflation and if some of the people here actually spent some time to learn about economics instead of reading conspiracies on Facebook, we’d all be better off.

 

I don't even have Facebook and I have studied economics. Yes the ending of the refer-a-friend did cut down on CC's but the Free CC's are made up for by Subscribing and earning them through Galactic seasons. I am ready and willing to consider it a part of the hyperinflation but not the root cause of it.

[TrixxieTriss]

I don't even have Facebook and I have studied economics. Yes the ending of the refer-a-friend did cut down on CC's but the Free CC's are made up for by Subscribing and earning them through Galactic seasons. I am ready and willing to consider it a part of the hyperinflation but not the root cause of it.

 

That’s ridiculous to compare the sub CCs (which we were already getting) and the Galactic seasons CCs to the the amount of referral CCs that were being generated. GS didn’t come close to making them up.

 

The whole season gave 4400 CC per player. Which is probably what most of the average players who completed GS got spread out over 5 months.

 

Your comparison isn’t even close when you consider I alone was getting 2000 CC (average) per month from referrals .

2000 CC x 5 months = 10,000 CC.

And they were just from random clicks on my forum signature.

 

Now imagine how much streamers were getting or people who were paying players in the game as well as their forums signature, Reddit signature, Twitter signature and discord signature.

I know of some people who were easily getting 20,000+ cartel coins a month which converted to CM items they used in their guilds to give away prizes or listed on the GTN.

 

The other thing to remember is people who got the 4400 CC from GS mostly spent them on themselves. They didn’t have enough excess to buy lots of stuff to list on the GTN for other people to buy. They were mainly for personal use.

 

Where as the CC referral whales and cash paying whales list CM items on the GTN with the sole purpose of making extra credits. When you cut the supply out of the referral CC whales, there is obviously 100’s thousands of CC’s not being spent on the CM for the sole purpose of listing stuff on the GTN.

 

That is why we have hyperinflation and not just normal inflation now. If you can’t understand that basic concept, then there is nothing anyone can say that will make you understand and shows you didn’t learn anything from your economics studies.

Edited November 5, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[JakRoanin]

That’s ridiculous to compare the sub CCs (which we were already getting) and the Galactic seasons CCs to the the amount of referral CCs that were being generated. GS didn’t come close to making them up.

 

The whole season gave 4400 CC per player. Which is probably what most of the average players who completed GS got spread out over 5 months.

 

Your comparison isn’t even close when you consider I alone was getting 2000 CC (average) per month from referrals .

2000 CC x 5 months = 10,000 CC.

And they were just from random clicks on my forum signature.

 

Now imagine how much streamers were getting or people who were paying players in the game as well as their forums signature, Reddit signature, Twitter signature and discord signature.

I know of some people who were easily getting 20,000+ cartel coins a month which converted to CM items they used in their guilds to give away prizes or listed on the GTN.

 

The other thing to remember is people who got the 4400 CC from GS mostly spent them on themselves. They didn’t have enough excess to buy lots of stuff to list on the GTN for other people to buy. They were mainly for personal use.

 

Where as the CC referral whales and cash paying whales list CM items on the GTN with the sole purpose of making extra credits. When you cut the supply out of the referral CC whales, there is obviously 100’s thousands of CC’s not being spent on the CM for the sole purpose of listing stuff on the GTN.

 

That is why we have hyperinflation and not just normal inflation now.

 

This is very interesting, I'm curious if you have any data on how many CC "whales" from the refer-a-friend program used their 'free' CC's to bolster the GTN and the median amount of CC's generated by the program? I only ask because my own experience with the Refer-a-friend program was wildly fluctuating.

[septru]

Are you saying that there are no long-term effects from the past exploits? Because if you are, then we didn't watch the same video.

 

At the beginning of 6.0 Masters Datacrons cost 200mill. 6 months into 6.0 Master's Datacrons cost 600mill. There have been no credit exploits since 2017. Logic is apparently hard for the so called economist.

Edited November 5, 2021 by septru

[TrixxieTriss]

This is very interesting, I'm curious if you have any data on how many CC "whales" from the refer-a-friend program used their 'free' CC's to bolster the GTN and the median amount of CC's generated by the program? I only ask because my own experience with the Refer-a-friend program was wildly fluctuating.

 

Well since Bioware have removed that section from the account login, it’s impossible to post my own data. And of course I don’t have access to other peoples.

Some months I might only get 1500 cartel coins from referrals and others I might get 3000 cartel coins. But averaged out at around 2000 a month.

And I didn’t even buy stuff to list on the GTN. I used most of my coins to open up collection items I’d already bought on the GTN and I would occasionally buy something direct from the CM to use.

 

Now consider all the streamers these days and content creators like swtorista who publicly asked people to click on their links on YouTube, twitch and websites. They would have been easily getting 10,000s of cartel coins a month. And I know some GMs of large guilds were getting close to 20,000.

 

Then you have the players who used to spam referral links for credits in the game. I’ve spoken to many of these guys on Discord and in the game and I know they were getting 20,000+ CC’s a month because they showed me screen shots on discord.

 

If you don’t believe me, that’s fine. Go to the discord channels and ask some of them if they wouldn’t mind sharing any images they may still have of their vast CC and CM wealth. And ask them what they used to do with it,

Edited November 5, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[JakRoanin]

If you don’t believe me, that’s fine. Go to the discord channels and ask some of them if they wouldn’t mind sharing any images they may still have of their vast CC and CM wealth. And ask them what they used to do with it,

 

I never said I didn't believe you. I also believe your point is a very valid one. I do disagree that the past exploits have nothing to do with the hyperinflation. But I'm not so irrational, illogical, or stupid to ignore new pieces of information. I also accept the possibility that there may be undiscovered exploits still in the system. I don't say that there are. Only the possibility.

[TrixxieTriss]

I never said I didn't believe you. I also believe your point is a very valid one. I do disagree that the past exploits have nothing to do with the hyperinflation. But I'm not so irrational, illogical, or stupid to ignore new pieces of information. I also accept the possibility that there may be undiscovered exploits still in the system. I don't say that there are. Only the possibility.

 

Past exploits from 5 years ago (2017) had an impact on normal inflation at the time and have had a trickle on effect ever since. But it’s been 5 years since we had an “actual” credit exploit, so that’s not the main culprit.

 

We didn’t get hyperinflation until this year when Bioware removed the referral CC’s. You only need to look at the correlation of months when the inflation kicked into over drive to see that is the main contributing factor to the hyperinflation. You can also see another correlation when GS finished in September and peoples CC stashes have run out. Prices since September went up more when GS finished.

 

Also, let me be clear. There is a difference between the normal high inflation which we had leading up to this and the hyperinflation that started to kick of 6 months ago.

 

Yes we had high inflation and that was caused from the excess credits being generated by conquest and maybe a small trickle from past exploits. But we didn’t have hyperinflation.

We also don’t have any credit exploits at the moment like you keep trying to suggest we do. Bioware explained where the credits are coming from and I trust they know because they can look at the data on the back end.

Continuing to suggest there are credit exploits is 100% tin foil hat conspiracy spreading and it isn’t helpful.

Edited November 5, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[JakRoanin]

Past exploits from 5 years ago (2017) had an impact on normal inflation at the time and have had a trickle on effect ever since. But it’s been 5 years since we had an “actual” credit exploit, so that’s not the main culprit.

 

We also don’t have any credit exploits at the moment like you keep trying to suggest we do. Bioware explained where the credits are coming from and I trust they know because they can look at the data on the back end.

Continuing to suggest their are credit exploits is 100% tin foil hat conspiracy spreading and it isn’t helpful.

 

I'm perfectly willing to agree that this is reasonable. However, why do you truest BioWare's explanation completely when you don't on other subjects? I also never definitively declared any credit exploits in the game now, I only keep the possibility as an X factor. Because there are a lot of people who are good at manipulating programs and nobody can ever say it's not happening. Unless they show another programmer the program of course.

 

How is it helpful for people (not you specifically) to disregard what others say as, 'lies, illogical, irrational, and tin foil conspiracy?' It is in fact not at all.

[TrixxieTriss]

I'm perfectly willing to agree that this is reasonable. However, why do you truest BioWare's explanation completely when you don't on other subjects? I also never definitively declared any credit exploits in the game now, I only keep the possibility as an X factor. Because there are a lot of people who are good at manipulating programs and nobody can ever say it's not happening. Unless they show another programmer the program of course.

 

How is it helpful for people (not you specifically) to disregard what others say as, 'lies, illogical, irrational, and tin foil conspiracy?' It is in fact not at all.

 

Because crushing credit exploits is the one thing Bioware has always been consistent on. If they were more consistent with other things I’d believe them more on other topics.

 

Plus, logically, what they are saying about conquest is correct. You only need to push through 10-30 Alts a week to get a truck load of credits. And as well as normal players, I’m sure credit farmers have streamlined the most efficient and fastest way to do this.

 

I’ve no problem with Bioware nerfing the conquest credits to help fix the economy. What I do take umbrage with is them doubling the points required to complete conquest. But that’s another issue for another thread.

Sadly, reducing the credits from conquest won’t fix the problem by itself and doesn’t address the triggers that caused the hyperinflation to start. Aka, lack of consistently free disposable CC’s that people can use to sell stuff on the GTN.

 

If they aren’t going to add another referral system, then they need to find other ways to add more free CC’s into the game. Especially when they are going to have gaps between GS seasons.

If they don’t address the supply and demand issue, then the whales who use real cash to buy CC are going to keep asking the highest prices because there isn’t enough competition to drive the prices lower. And the current credit whales are going to keep buying up the market and relisting higher.

 

Adding some new cosmetic credit sinks and not ones that interfere with new players game play would help too. Plus adding a sliding scale tax on the GTN to target the highest priced items. As well as putting a cap on player to player transactions outside of the GTN.

 

No one thing will fix the inflation. It’s needs a multi-prong approach.

Edited November 5, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[forceapply]

There are currently no credit dupes or credit exploits.

 

BioWare have categorically stated the excess credits are being generated by people doing conquest. That is why they will be nerfing the credit rewards in 7.0.

 

You can keep on harping about conspiracies or get get a tin foil hat 🎩

 

I'd just like to point out that Bioware did not say that there is no active credit exploits/dupes in the game. There is enough proof that an active exploit/dupe exists and is the cause of this inflation. We've already replied to each other about this and those posts with some of that proof have been deleted from this thread. I won't debate it further and we can just agree to disagree.

 

I would just like to ask if credits from conquest is indeed causing the inflation. Why do you think Bioware hasn't done anything about it? I mean I don't recall exactly when all these credits from conquest started coming but it was at least 2-3 years ago. If Bioware is studying and measuring economic indicators then they could of seen this happening and fixed it some time in the past 2-3 years right?

 

However lets give them the benefit of the doubt that they just discovered this recently. Why do you think it is that they don't immediately hotfix the credits coming from conquest? I mean this is a huge problem after all and one of the most talked about. They could easily do that but instead it is an 7.0 change which who knows when will be coming and especially if it gets delayed. Do you think it is possible they aren't immediately hotfixing it because its not what is causing the inflation? Instead they just threw in that change to make people happy since most are blaming credits from conquest?